Asian man wants to date Caucasian women - how much stereotype fighting am I faced with?

[Garcon1986]

Hi, I'm a brand new physician in Illinois looking for a long term relationship. Unfortunately I failed to develop my interpersonal skills at the same time so I'm the classic late bloomer. 
Thankfully I've had a few relationships as a physician trainee so I am familiar with the basics of a healthy relationship. 

Problem is - I've run up against what I think are dating stereotypes again and again. 
I feel like expressing my preference towards Caucasian women is equivalent to apologizing for my sexuality. I know this is a very horrible thing to say but I like Caucasian folks because I've spent every year of my life beyond 3yo outside of China. 
I have tried many times to relate with Chinese women but it is so hard to have that "click" that people talk about. I do quite a bit better with Chinese women brought up in the US but, the mind still wanders to Caucasian folks. 

I've heard - if I don't think you're hot, it's not going to work. 
I've heard - I don't think of you that way. 
I've heard - I have absolutely no feelings for you. 
I've heard - people can't control who they are attracted to. 
As you all know the rise of anti-Asian sentiment in the United States is extremely bad right now, but fortunately I've not been personally attacked yet. 
Asian women have a much, much easier time getting their pick of Caucasian men than the other way around. 
The OKCupid study on the desirability of Asian men was deeply depressing.

I've gotten wonderful interactions with some people in my life that I am really, really attracted to, but dating was just out of reach due to it being a work relationship, or they were just committed already. So my social skills are not totally useless. 

So - for those who have cracked the code of biracial dating, how did you do it? 
Thank you.
 

[mark clemson]

I wouldn't say I've cracked the code (if one actually exists) but I did date an Asian American woman in college. In our case things just "flowed naturally" in that we were both single, struck up a conversation, she seemed interested in me, I asked her if she'd like to spend some time together, which she did, we hung out together and once it became clear we were both interested in more we started fooling around, sex, going out, etc. She did have an easy time "winning" Caucasian men as you point out, as there were BFs soon before and after me. In her case she was extremely attractive, not just "Asian" (which is all it takes for some men who have fetishes or stereotypes).

I'd say the key generally is to make yourself as attractive as possible, develop an "alpha vibe" and let them come to you. This is easier said than done, but will work great IF you can accomplish it. One thing many women seem sensitive is body language, so if you can develop an air of confidence/casual dominance without coming across as an a-hole, this should help quite a bit. Get a haircut that makes you as attractive as possible, hit the gym if/when you can to mildly bulk up, and play it cool/don't seem too interested, especially at first, but DO be open to conversation/social interaction. Play around with your body language/stride to see what seems to garner interest/attraction.

Once you are attractive, women (generally, not ALL women by any means) will start dropping hints like smiling at you, chatting you up, asking if you're busy this evening, somewhat subtly letting you know that they are interested in more communication/time together. That is essentially your hint to ask them on a date.

Since you are a doctor you now have social status, solid career prospects, $, and no doubt brains, all of which should help quite a lot with serious LTR minded women. So you probably need to work on looks/social skills/"alpha" mannerisms more to draw them in IMO.

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, Garcon1986 said:

I've heard - if I don't think you're hot, it's not going to work. 
I've heard - I don't think of you that way. 
I've heard - I have absolutely no feelings for you. 
I've heard - people can't control who they are attracted to.

At the risk of stating things you already know, many men are "overly aggressive/interested."  These are the kinds of things women say to drive off a guy who's interested in them when they're not interested back.  If you are getting a lot of this, you are barking up the wrong trees (IMO).

YOU make yourself attractive, and the ones who are interested will show it by "showing up" - i.e. paying attention to you/socializing/being willing to spend time with you etc. THOSE are the women you need to show interest in. So do that and then pick from among those who are interested in you the ones you are also interested in, and take it from there.

[Garcon1986]

32 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

At the risk of stating things you already know, many men are "overly aggressive/interested."  These are the kinds of things women say to drive off a guy who's interested in them when they're not interested back.  If you are getting a lot of this, you are barking up the wrong trees (IMO).

YOU make yourself attractive, and the ones who are interested will show it by "showing up" - i.e. paying attention to you/socializing/being willing to spend time with you etc. THOSE are the women you need to show interest in. So do that and then pick from among those who are interested in you the ones you are also interested in, and take it from there.

Mark I can't easily bring myself to be attracted to Asian women - that's part of the conondrum. Online, I get "swipe rights" only from people who are very obese and have no interests in common with me. I'm going on a date with a fairly attractive lady this weekend and will see how it goes. But - as its my first date in a long while, gotta keep on looking in case this one fails. 
The ones I like without a doubt, I can't seem to impress enough to pay me any attention. 
I'm just expressing who I am physically attracted to. 
What do I need to do to turn this around?

[BaileyB]

I have a friend and coworker (Caucasian female) who is married to an Asian male (also a physician). I don’t actually know how they met, but I think the shared interest in medicine likely played a part. 

Dating is a numbers game - it’s when luck meets opportunity. You are a great catch! Don’t be so hard on yourself... I imagine you will have better luck in the NE than the Deep South. Good luck on your date!

[glows]

I think you're trying too hard. Just relax and enjoy the good life. Why should you jump through hoops trying to impress anyone in the first place? Be yourself, first and foremost. I always wince at these race threads because it's a lot of insecurity and you've got to just let go of that. 

Please don't worry yourself over these things. The right woman wouldn't care at all what culture you are if you present yourself as fair-minded, honest, kind and intelligent. Focus on those traits, not the colour of your skin or what you look like. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by glows

[chillii]

They're great thoughts for you right there op and l really agree , just relax a bit.

Even the date this wkend , relax. Go on that see what happens no need to be looking for more right now you haven't even been on that one yet , give it a chance. You've had things at work too so there ya go it does happen and it'll happen again,  it's just about meeting that right person.

Edited April 30, 2021 by chillii

[Noproblem]

I don't think your race is the problem here. I think it's you being attractive or not and this can't be fixed. You want an attractive lady and reject unattractive ones, yet you are yourself being rejected because you are not attractive to other people!

Edited April 30, 2021 by Noproblem

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, Garcon1986 said:

The ones I like without a doubt, I can't seem to impress enough to pay me any attention. 
I'm just expressing who I am physically attracted to. 
What do I need to do to turn this around?

As noted by myself and others there is a good bit to like when it comes to you.

If you're going on a date with an attractive woman, then you're probably in good shape. If you mostly like Caucasians, then agree keep looking in that "arena".

To turn things around (which in your case mostly means to accelerate things as I think as a doctor you will win the slow but steady game), make yourself as attractive as possible so even more women are interested. As per what I posted above. I disagree that men can't improve their attractiveness. Most can. Get a good haircut, dress reasonably fashionably or find a good look for you. Trim facial hair, work on fitness, etc.

Keep your social skills good. Work on coming across as "alpha" (without being an a-hole). You're a doctor - "the world is your oyster" now, you will have plenty of the things life has to offer, but you are just cool with it, not letting it go to your head inflate your ego too much (just a little). If you can come across this way with women, they will pick up this "confident vibe" from you and it will likely help A LOT. Attraction for many women is more subtle than physical appearance alone.

Even so, I keep hearing here that "you gotta kiss a lot of frogs" when dating as an adult, particularly online dating. So I'd say take a slow but steady approach and keep your expectations tempered.

Two other ideas - if you really want to understand more (not everything, NO ONE knows everything) about how women operate, you could buy the book A Billion Wicked Thoughts and read the sections on what attracts women, then implement as much as you can from that book. That should help reinforce the things I'm trying to explain to you above.

If you're "desperate" (which you shouldn't be if you are getting dates) you could in theory try sugar daddy sites. If you choose to do this, just be sure to fully research (via a lawyer) and fully adhere to what is actually legal in your area WRT this sort of thing. Also watch out for true gold diggers as I think the last thing anyone wants is to wind up married to one of those. IMO sugar daddying would be for "temporary fun" only.

Edited April 30, 2021 by mark clemson

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, Garcon1986 said:

I'm going on a date with a fairly attractive lady this weekend and will see how it goes.

Agree. Just make sure you are dressed casually/nice, shaved groomed etc. As a physician you should get a lot of hits. Don't use hookup apps or garbage apps.

Meet briefly for coffee, if it goes well ask for a second date. You are making way to much of a huge deal out of your ethnicity and your preferences. You are who you are and you are attracted to who you're attracted to. It's that simple.

[Miss Peach]

You sound like you may be coming across as not confident enough, too needy, putting women on a pedestal, etc. The classic 'nice guy' complaints. This is probably what's killing your chances. Women also like a man with confidence who will ask for what he wants. So if you're asking for a date saying "How about we meet at place X for lunch on Saturday?" will go over way better than something wishy washy like "If you don't have plans for the weekend and want to get together let me know".

[glows]

1 minute ago, Miss Peach said:

You sound like you may be coming across as not confident enough, too needy, putting women on a pedestal, etc. The classic 'nice guy' complaints. This is probably what's killing your chances. Women also like a man with confidence who will ask for what he wants. So if you're asking for a date saying "How about we meet at place X for lunch on Saturday?" will go over way better than something wishy washy like "If you don't have plans for the weekend and want to get together let me know".

Good grief. Do men still do this past 40? A turn off. Completely agree with this.

[Miss Peach]

1 hour ago, glows said:

Good grief. Do men still do this past 40? A turn off. Completely agree with this.

Yes. That is verbatim a text I got this week from a man over 40.

[glows]

7 minutes ago, Miss Peach said:

Yes. That is verbatim a text I got this week from a man over 40.

Are you going to respond?

Some women might find confidence too cocky or presumptuous. A good balance with a dash of good observation is better. He could have noticed that you seem quite busy and didn't want to impose. I still think he should have asked you out on a date even if it's simple to start.

[Miss Peach]

42 minutes ago, glows said:

Are you going to respond?

Some women might find confidence too cocky or presumptuous. A good balance with a dash of good observation is better. He could have noticed that you seem quite busy and didn't want to impose. I still think he should have asked you out on a date even if it's simple to start.

No I'm not. I met him 2 weeks ago. He didn't bother to ask for a date until now. He texted me this date request at 3am. And last week I agreed to be another guy's girlfriend and had 5 better guys I was seeing/talking to before this guy. Even without all that after I gave him my number and talked to him some more I detected some red/yellow flags. So no, I'm out.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Miss Peach

[LuckyM]

How is your accent? That might put a woman off

Don't worry about antiAsian feelings

 

[elaine567]

I would not worry about race, if you are a good looking, charming guy it will not matter a damn what race you are.
i think it may be your under developed interpersonal skills that are letting you down plus your filtering of the dating pool to exclude all but Caucasian women.
.Guys who struggle, usually struggle because they seek women who are out of their league and these guys are also usually lacking in the social skills necessary to attract such women.

[basil67]

I'm not in the US, so forgive me if my question seems foolish:  Is where you live a very multi cultural area?   

Backstory to my question:  I'm gen X. Back when I grew up in the 80's, we were all very white and due to the lack of exposure to people of other cultures we didn't get an 'eye' for their features and so (generally speaking) we didn't really date people who weren't white.   But as our culture has diversified, we had Gen Y and Z going to school with people from other cultures, co-mingling, having culturally diverse friendship groups and dating people who were culturally diverse.   Even my own view of what is attractive has changed with exposure. 

I guess that you'd want to aim for a more 'woke' community when hoping to find a woman who will consider dating someone who has a different skin colour.   But if you're in a more woke community, you might also want to have a look at your own prejudices.    While I completely understand not wanting to date someone who grew up in a culture which wasn't Western, why focus only on white women?    There are first and second generation American women of so many cultural backgrounds.    

 

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Is where you live a very multi cultural area?   

Depends on the area of Illinois. It’s one thing if he lives in or near Chicago, entirely another thing if he lives in a more rural area. I remember travelling in Chicago for the first time, it was the first time that I (as a Caucasian woman) felt what it was to be in the minority on the L train. 

If I remember correctly, Garcon used to live in the south. There should be more options in Illinois. It’s a very different culture, assuming he is not living in a very rural and conservative are of the state. 

[Garcon1986]

6 hours ago, LuckyM said:

How is your accent? That might put a woman off

Don't worry about antiAsian feelings

 

My English accent is a mix between British and American at the moment. I have been told my accent in Chinese sounds like white boys learning Chinese haha

[Garcon1986]

6 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I would not worry about race, if you are a good looking, charming guy it will not matter a damn what race you are.
i think it may be your under developed interpersonal skills that are letting you down plus your filtering of the dating pool to exclude all but Caucasian women.
.Guys who struggle, usually struggle because they seek women who are out of their league and these guys are also usually lacking in the social skills necessary to attract such women.

Where are all these fine social skills hidden? How do you learn these powers? Its so unfair that a woman of the same age has to be 5 years ahead of me in social finesse. 

[Garcon1986]

4 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Depends on the area of Illinois. It’s one thing if he lives in or near Chicago, entirely another thing if he lives in a more rural area. I remember travelling in Chicago for the first time, it was the first time that I (as a Caucasian woman) felt what it was to be in the minority on the L train. 

If I remember correctly, Garcon used to live in the south. There should be more options in Illinois. It’s a very different culture, assuming he is not living in a very rural and conservative are of the state. 

I now live in South Central Illinois, an equal distance between St Louis, Indianapolis, and Chicago. I would think that I would get more that 10 hits, but it is surprisingly difficult to get any attention in online dating for a guy like me at the moment for some reason. In happier news, I have good news and bad news about my date. She only agreed to a video chat and canceled the in person date at the last minute. Thankfully this was before I embarked on a 2.5 hour drive. She claims that she had to work on her project over the weekend because her boss didn't like her work today. I was able to make her genuinely laugh I think. My plan will be to periodically share funny cat videos as she likes cats, and encourage her to tell me when she is next available. I don't look very kindly upon folks who play the game of "I need to know that you're real", but will see if she actually makes time for me in 1-2 weeks time. 

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, Garcon1986 said:

 Its so unfair that a woman of the same age has to be 5 years ahead of me in social finesse. 

Women are only ahead of men in social skills when they are quite young.  Generally speaking, by the time everyone is about 23, it all seems to even out.    

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Garcon1986 said:

My English accent is a mix between British and American at the moment. I have been told my accent in Chinese sounds like white boys learning Chinese haha

Where were you brought up/educated?

If you are in Chicago and a physician, you shouldn't have issues getting dates.

Keep in mind dating is not a politically correct situation or "woke" situation.

Attraction and dating is a personal gut level thing .

You seem way too pressured and focused on your own ethnicity.

Do you have your own place? Does your family pressure you to date within your culture?

You seem to be rebelling against something in your own mind.

 

[basil67]

26 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Keep in mind dating is not a politically correct situation or "woke" situation.

Yeah, I was the one who mentioned being woke.

Perhaps it's not like that where you are, but where I live,  less woke folks can very judgmental of those who look different.   People who say "go back to where you came from" to foreign looking people are not likely to date them. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by basil67