Can't believe I'm back.

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

Exactly this. To me, this was yet another out, her deleting his number (not sure if blocked) - and he still kept it. I was clutching at straws earlier asking maybe he has kept it to ignore if she gets back in contact but the more I think about it, he could have blocked her. Ugh!

Even if he blocked her & made a great show of getting rid of her in front of you, it makes no difference whatsoever if his and her intention is to still keep in touch.
You are the enemy, the wife who keeps them apart. Their intention is get around you, to make it seem like nothing is going on.

You can't control what he does, he is an adult, he makes his own choices...
Here he blatantly chose her instead of you.

There is no point in getting mad, you getting mad resulted in him reinstating her in his Contacts list...
Instead you have to actually DO something and as it seems you don't want a divorce, then you need to learn to just accept anything he throws at you.
You put up and shut up for your own sanity, or you walk.

[lana-banana]

 

 

15 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

Exactly this. To me, this was yet another out, her deleting his number (not sure if blocked) - and he still kept it. I was clutching at straws earlier asking maybe he has kept it to ignore if she gets back in contact but the more I think about it, he could have blocked her. Ugh!

It is perfectly possible to block a number without adding it to your contacts. While you can block contacts, I don't understand why you would add a number with the sole intent of blocking them, especially if they have been in communication recently.

You might as well just ask him. It's not like you have anything to lose at this point.

[LaurenEliz]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Even if he blocked her & made a great show of getting rid of her in front of you, it makes no difference whatsoever if his and her intention is to still keep in touch.
You are the enemy, the wife who keeps them apart. Their intention is get around you, to make it seem like nothing is going on.

You can't control what he does, he is an adult, he makes his own choices...
Here he blatantly chose her instead of you.

There is no point in getting mad, you getting mad resulted in him reinstating her in his Contacts list...
Instead you have to actually DO something and as it seems you don't want a divorce, then you need to learn to just accept anything he throws at you.
You put up and shut up for your own sanity, or you walk.

I don’t want a divorce but I have been looking down that route, especially after finding out she’s still there. I just want to make sure I’m not getting the wrong end of the stick about her number being in his contacts which again, I guess is why I’m on here 

[elaine567]

If you knew for certain they were still in contact or even meeting up, would you want a divorce then?
What would it take for you to say "Enough is enough, I want a divorce."

[Starswillshine]

So you confronted him about her number, he deleted it again.... and the added it back again? 

Is he really that dumb or does he think you are that dumb? 

[photogirl2006]

6 hours ago, LaurenEliz said:

I don’t think he’s spoken to her (this isn’t me wishful thinking) for once I’m actually being logical - if he had spoken to her explaining things then she would have readded him and her photo would reappear

He can have many ways of talking to her that you don't know about. Trust me. My huband did. Apps I couldn't find..he always had his phone and ipad with him. He could also communicate with her on imessage and delete it because I couldn't see the imessages on our phone bill. They have ways and if she was still in his phone then he has no intention of moving forward. 

[photogirl2006]

• Don't do what I did. 10 years later and I found him cheating again - maybe with a stranger this time. I don't even know. The last time it was his ex-girlfriend and every few years he lie about something else. I should have divorced him 2013 when I found out he was running around with her and now it's been 10 years of him lying and me finally not caring anymore. We have two kids but I'm looking for a divorce lawyer. Enough is enough. You're worth  more than how he is treating you.

[LaurenEliz]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

If you knew for certain they were still in contact or even meeting up, would you want a divorce then?
What would it take for you to say "Enough is enough, I want a divorce."

I have been looking, but we have a lot at stake. I know most people who divorce have kids etc, I think right now I’m just in shock. To be honest I’m starting to think it’s actually pathetic. She’s ‘gone’ or at least ‘gone’ for now, yet he still keeps her there. I’m just so upset that that was an out for him to keep her deleted

[LaurenEliz]

3 minutes ago, photogirl2006 said:

• Don't do what I did. 10 years later and I found him cheating again - maybe with a stranger this time. I don't even know. The last time it was his ex-girlfriend and every few years he lie about something else. I should have divorced him 2013 when I found out he was running around with her and now it's been 10 years of him lying and me finally not caring anymore. We have two kids but I'm looking for a divorce lawyer. Enough is enough. You're worth  more than how he is treating you.

So sorry you have been through this. I’m looking at my options too and if you ever want to talk please feel free to message

[LaurenEliz]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

So you confronted him about her number, he deleted it again.... and the added it back again? 

Is he really that dumb or does he think you are that dumb? 

So this time I confronted him and he said they weren’t speaking, he just kept her number, so I said that’s ridiculous, told him to delete it or I’d leave and if I left he’d lose the kids etc. He opened WhatsApp infront of me, sent her a message. Her photo was there and then it very quickly disappeared.  Then deleted her. He then went to his phone contacts to make sure it had been deleted and she wasn’t there anymore due to the deletion in WhatsApp. 

this morning I look and she’s back in his WhatsApp but her photo is still missing which in a weird way pains me even more because if it had come back then I’d know 100% they had spoken and could probably bring myself to speak to him about it. But because it’s not there and he still added her back even though it looks like she deleted him it just makes me think what’s the point? You added her back even though she’s deleted you? 

[Stupidkupid]

5 hours ago, LaurenEliz said:

Hi, thanks for commenting, especially as an ex ow, that means a lot. Did you go for periods of time not talking to (I’m assuming a married man(no judgement))? 

There were periods where he would cut me off for a while or I would end things. But there was no blocking or deleting of numbers until i went NC and ended the relationship once and for all.

I blocked him on everything I could think of. And I genuinely can't think of a reason I would have kept his details other than to contact him or he contact me.

I'm genuinely very sad he's doing this to you

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, photogirl2006 said:

He can have many ways of talking to her that you don't know about.

Agree. Why not just call/text the number and tell her you know all about the affair?

[LaurenEliz]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree. Why not just call/text the number and tell her you know all about the affair?

That was part of the message that was sent, made it clear that I know everything. So do you think the only reason he put her number back in his phone is to start contact again?

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

So do you think the only reason he put her number back in his phone is to start contact again?

Why else?
You seem so sure they are not still in contact.
Why do you think that?

[mark clemson]

17 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

That was part of the message that was sent, made it clear that I know everything. So do you think the only reason he put her number back in his phone is to start contact again?

I can't speak for Wiseman2 but I think that's why. Why else? There IS no other possible reason.

IIRC when we left off on your prior thread you had recently had your kid. You put dealing with this on hold for some months to re-group, normalize, deal with caring for an infant.

Perfectly reasonable. Thing is - now you're here. It's clear he doesn't want to delete her number/completely lose contact with her. Honestly, to think otherwise is to be in denial.

So, the real question is - what are you going to do?

I'm not going to give you specific advice, but I think your options boil down to a) look the other way and b) separate. "Monitoring" IMO only works if there's a genuine reconciliation, to help the BS feel less worried when they don't really need to be worried. But IMO there's little point in "monitoring" a person who continues to want or to have an affair - they have chosen to continue.

[LaurenEliz]

9 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Why else?
You seem so sure they are not still in contact.
Why do you think that?

Because he is still deleted on her phone. To me, if he text her saying whatever then she would have re added his number surely? Which to be honest makes me even more mad because it shows the level of desperation from him. That’s why I asked if there was any other reason why he’d keep her number other than to be in contact because she has actually deleted him yet he has still chosen to keep her number 

[LaurenEliz]

12 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

I can't speak for Wiseman2 but I think that's why. Why else? There IS no other possible reason.

IIRC when we left off on your prior thread you had recently had your kid. You put dealing with this on hold for some months to re-group, normalize, deal with caring for an infant.

Perfectly reasonable. Thing is - now you're here. It's clear he doesn't want to delete her number/completely lose contact with her. Honestly, to think otherwise is to be in denial.

So, the real question is - what are you going to do?

I'm not going to give you specific advice, but I think your options boil down to a) look the other way and b) separate. "Monitoring" IMO only works if there's a genuine reconciliation, to help the BS feel less worried when they don't really need to be worried. But IMO there's little point in "monitoring" a person who continues to want or to have an affair - they have chosen to continue.

Something else I haven’t mentioned. He had said that he previously deleted her but for whatever reason he readded her. 

[mark clemson]

^^  ok, but this changes - essentially nothing.

The situation is what it is. I think perhaps you are doing a bit of "running in circles" mentally here to avoid biting the bullet and deciding what you will do.

[elaine567]

15 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

Because he is still deleted on her phone. To me, if he text her saying whatever then she would have re added his number surely? Which to be honest makes me even more mad because it shows the level of desperation from him. That’s why I asked if there was any other reason why he’d keep her number other than to be in contact because she has actually deleted him yet he has still chosen to keep her number 

What I meant was you seem to think she is "gone" and they are not in contact at all, why do you think that?

[Rocky29]

You can read his phone every day, check for her number on every app, put trackers on his car and on his phone to track his every move, tie him to you so he cannot do anything and guess what - HE WILL STILL CHEAT.  Do you know what it does to a man to have a spouse or girlfriend who goes through their phone and 'makes' them do things to contacts or 'makes them' stop talking to someone? It makes him resent you, it pushes him to cheat more, it forces the two cheating people to find alternate ways, as others have said, to communicate and see each other. I am a former OW myself and my MM had a separate phone all together and he found ways around having a tracker on his phone and his car.  We continued seeing each other until I ENDED IT.  He never once did.  Not once. Sure, he sent me the occasional message that she found out and he has to be quiet for 2-3 days, or he would say that if he ever sends me a message saying it's over he doesn't mean it and that it's just his wife found out. He is also telling his cheating partner what an awful, clingy, controlling woman you are for watching his every move and 'running his life' thereby again creating a bond between him and the cheating partner of an 'it's us against the mean witch' bond. As some other poster said he knows her number, he is definitely still talking to her, and by you staying with him you have taught him how to treat you and he is never, ever going to be faithful. If he loves this other woman there is no chance for you to have a successful relationship with this man. There is absolutely no way a relationship works without trust and you do not trust him and you should not trust him. He is untrustworthy! He will continue to hurt you.  Leave this man and quit playing phone detective.  What are you gonna do next time you see her name in there, make him delete it again?? big whoop! He knows that's all you make him do, and that is NOTHING.  I am sorry for what you are going through but honestly sometimes it's hard to feel sorry for someone who knows who they are married to and they don't do anything to change it.  You can't really play the 'I'm shocked she is still in his phone!' game.  he is a cheater.  Nothing should shock you anymore.  And you stayed so this is the life you get to live. Sorry for the reality check but it sounds like you need it. Be a strong woman and do what you need to do for YOUR OWN HAPPINESS. 

[LaurenEliz]

1 hour ago, Rocky29 said:

You can read his phone every day, check for her number on every app, put trackers on his car and on his phone to track his every move, tie him to you so he cannot do anything and guess what - HE WILL STILL CHEAT.  Do you know what it does to a man to have a spouse or girlfriend who goes through their phone and 'makes' them do things to contacts or 'makes them' stop talking to someone? It makes him resent you, it pushes him to cheat more, it forces the two cheating people to find alternate ways, as others have said, to communicate and see each other. I am a former OW myself and my MM had a separate phone all together and he found ways around having a tracker on his phone and his car.  We continued seeing each other until I ENDED IT.  He never once did.  Not once. Sure, he sent me the occasional message that she found out and he has to be quiet for 2-3 days, or he would say that if he ever sends me a message saying it's over he doesn't mean it and that it's just his wife found out. He is also telling his cheating partner what an awful, clingy, controlling woman you are for watching his every move and 'running his life' thereby again creating a bond between him and the cheating partner of an 'it's us against the mean witch' bond. As some other poster said he knows her number, he is definitely still talking to her, and by you staying with him you have taught him how to treat you and he is never, ever going to be faithful. If he loves this other woman there is no chance for you to have a successful relationship with this man. There is absolutely no way a relationship works without trust and you do not trust him and you should not trust him. He is untrustworthy! He will continue to hurt you.  Leave this man and quit playing phone detective.  What are you gonna do next time you see her name in there, make him delete it again?? big whoop! He knows that's all you make him do, and that is NOTHING.  I am sorry for what you are going through but honestly sometimes it's hard to feel sorry for someone who knows who they are married to and they don't do anything to change it.  You can't really play the 'I'm shocked she is still in his phone!' game.  he is a cheater.  Nothing should shock you anymore.  And you stayed so this is the life you get to live. Sorry for the reality check but it sounds like you need it. Be a strong woman and do what you need to do for YOUR OWN HAPPINESS. 

Thank you for your words. I know I need to start putting mine and the kids happiness first. I’m trying to put their happiness first before anything else. 
 

I won’t bore you to death to get you to read my previous thread but basically my husband is conflict avoidant. He always has been. I’ve known him since we were in our teens. Anything to do with conflict he sticks his head in the sand so I am 99.9% sure he hasn’t spoken to her for a while due to us having another baby. Only a couple of months, that plus a pandemic. I know people say I’m concentrating on the number and they are absolutely right, I am. I’m just trying to get things straight in my mind. I have set up a zoom with a lawyer for next week to figure some things out but before then I think I’m on here as a sounding board to make sure I have things straight in my mind. 
She has definitely deleted his number, there’s no two ways about that. So once again, there was another opportunity for him to just delete her and be done with it but he readded her even though she has deleted him? That’s screams desperation to me. 
Oh and for my friends from my last thread @Wiseman2 @elaine567 mark (wouldn’t let me tag) - in the message he told her about our second..so you were all right. He hadn’t told her because he didn’t want her to go anywhere  

[BaileyB]

The important thing is not that she has deleted/blocked his number.
The important thing here is that he has not. 

That’s the bottom line. That’s really all you need to know. He has lied to you about the affair. He lied to you about deleting her number. And, he has betrayed your trust on both occasions. 

As was said above, it’s entirely possible that they have gone underground. They could still be communicating in any number of ways... you really can’t believe what he says because, he has lied to you about very important things on several occasions in the past. 

Again, I’m sorry this has happened to you. It’s good to hear that you have an appointment with a lawyer. 

[LaurenEliz]

10 hours ago, BaileyB said:

The important thing is not that she has deleted/blocked his number.
The important thing here is that he has not. 

That’s the bottom line. That’s really all you need to know. He has lied to you about the affair. He lied to you about deleting her number. And, he has betrayed your trust on both occasions. 

As was said above, it’s entirely possible that they have gone underground. They could still be communicating in any number of ways... you really can’t believe what he says because, he has lied to you about very important things on several occasions in the past. 

Again, I’m sorry this has happened to you. It’s good to hear that you have an appointment with a lawyer. 

Yes, I’ve been trying to like document all of my thoughts and feelings so I can get some sort of clarity. The lawyer who I had a very brief chat with said I should keep a notebook until our meeting and write down everything. 
I know people are going to say ‘his end goal shouldn’t matter’ etc but I’m trying to figure out what he’s playing at. She’s gone. Why would you keep her there. As a memory? Or could he be waiting for the heat to die down here and then get intouch with her? If you were in his position (and I know none of you would be), but if you were - if you wanted to make things work with your spouse you’d delete them right? Little sense in keeping a number you’re never going to use? I just want to make sure I’m not getting anything wrong, I don’t want to start doubting myself 

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

She’s gone.

You keep saying that, how do you know?
You can assume but you don't really know.
You do know what "taking things underground" means?
Secret apps, burner phones, duplicate lap tops/tablets, secret meet ups, friends/colleagues who will cover for him...
One guy on here said he had a special bag hidden away for the gadgets he used to contact his OW.
His known gadgets were as clean as a whistle.
If you want to cheat and stay in touch there is always a work around...

I would not base too much on her saying we are through if you have another baby.
She may be shocked, upset, annoyed, but that doesn't mean she will dump him and he will stay dumped.
He will blame you for seducing him and trapping him... and she, if she loves him, will likely forgive him...
 

[LaurenEliz]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

You keep saying that, how do you know?
You can assume but you don't really know.
You do know what "taking things underground" means?
Secret apps, burner phones, duplicate lap tops/tablets, secret meet ups, friends/colleagues who will cover for him...
One guy on here said he had a special bag hidden away for the gadgets he used to contact his OW.
His known gadgets were as clean as a whistle.
If you want to cheat and stay in touch there is always a work around...

I would not base too much on her saying we are through if you have another baby.
She may be shocked, upset, annoyed, but that doesn't mean she will dump him and he will stay dumped.
He will blame you for seducing him and trapping him... and she, if she loves him, will likely forgive him...
 

We are at my parents house, there is no secret bag of gadgets, no burner. This isn’t me wishful thinking, my H has been sloppy in regards to her and also he isn’t great with IT etc. We are also loving at my parents so someone is always around him (not on purpose that’s just the way it is) and if there is a food shop/park etc, either I’m there as we take both children or he goes with my dad so my dad gets to spend time with the kids. 
giving him the benefit of the doubt here (not because he deserves it, he doesn’t) I do believe he hasn’t had any further contact with her because I like said, she would have to put his number back in her phone, which she hasn’t done. So if she hasn’t done that for WhatsApp, she hasn’t done that at all meaning his number can’t be on her phone for any apps. 
which again makes it so puzzling that you would keep someone who you have not only upset, but has deleted you and that is what I want to know - if he’s done that so when restrictions ease is that his plan, to reestablish contact in some way because don’t you think if he was done with her she would be gone?