Can't believe I'm back.

[flitzanu]

On 4/30/2021 at 7:34 AM, LaurenEliz said:

I don’t want a divorce but I have been looking down that route, especially after finding out she’s still there. I just want to make sure I’m not getting the wrong end of the stick about her number being in his contacts which again, I guess is why I’m on here 

i don't know if this is covered in the five pages after this post--

 

in the very beginning, your post said you gave him an ultimatum - delete this or i divorce you.

--he failed to keep his end of the ultimatum, which means you should be divorcing him.

failing to follow through with your threat and ultimatum, now means your threats and conditions are completely invalid and meaningless to him, because you proved your threat was empty, and are saying in this post that you "don't want a divorce" which means you should not make threats you aren't going to keep.

 

[Stupidkupid]

1 hour ago, flitzanu said:

i don't know if this is covered in the five pages after this post--

 

in the very beginning, your post said you gave him an ultimatum - delete this or i divorce you.

--he failed to keep his end of the ultimatum, which means you should be divorcing him.

failing to follow through with your threat and ultimatum, now means your threats and conditions are completely invalid and meaningless to him, because you proved your threat was empty, and are saying in this post that you "don't want a divorce" which means you should not make threats you aren't going to keep.

 

This is so important.

Would you mind if I ask why you don't want to? I may have missed it but honestly, I find divorce was briefly rough but then totally liberating. 

Whenever you make any sort of ultimatum, you really do have to follow through. Otherwise they know that next time you make the threat, its a hollow one, and then they just do what they want to anyway as they know there will be no consequences to their actions.

Mark may be right about it not being deliberate but I'd be pretty surprised by it. Hes lied and hidden her before. Even if this was a mistake, seems an odd one to make given the threatened consequences

[HadMeOverABarrel]

11 hours ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

What if he memorized it?

Brain surgery, of course! 😜

[spiderowl]

10 hours ago, LaurenEliz said:

Yeah I know. But giving him the huge benefit of the doubt here. He physically deleted her on his phone. He then synced it. IF he was syncing to make sure she was gone, would her contact still be there? Believe it or not right now I’m listening to a bunch of helpful strangers on the internet because I trust their judgement 

I can't see why he would need to synch his phone at that point, except to get her number back.  I would have thought one would only synch a phone when a major had been made and in order to ensure that contacts were not lost.  If he knows anything about iPhones, he would realise that the data would be backed up on the cloud.

But all that aside, you really want to believe she's gone for good.  Would removing her contact details from his phone really convince you of that?  There are other ways he could contact her and you can't watch them all.  It must be very difficult for you not knowing whether you can trust him.  He has cheated: what makes you think he would not do this again if he thought he could get away with it?

[Doorstopper]

It's quite simple:

You can't give him an ultimatum and then give him the benefit of the doubt. Its up to to you to call him on it, and its up to him, not us, to explain it to your satisfaction.

Your words mean nothing to him, if your actions do not back them up.

Be Strong!

 

[LaurenEliz]

6 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I can't see why he would need to synch his phone at that point, except to get her number back.  I would have thought one would only synch a phone when a major had been made and in order to ensure that contacts were not lost.  If he knows anything about iPhones, he would realise that the data would be backed up on the cloud.

But all that aside, you really want to believe she's gone for good.  Would removing her contact details from his phone really convince you of that?  There are other ways he could contact her and you can't watch them all.  It must be very difficult for you not knowing whether you can trust him.  He has cheated: what makes you think he would not do this again if he thought he could get away with it?

Thank you, and thanks everyone. Been doing some major digging in regards to iPhones and syncing. You’re so right. You sync your iPhone to back something up, not to make sure something’s deleted. Appointment this afternoon with my solicitor to see where I can go from here

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, LaurenEliz said:

. Appointment this afternoon with my solicitor to see where I can go from here

You keep mentioning that you want to see an attorney. What exactly does "see where you can go" mean? 

However you seem to still be trying to figure out how his phone and messaging apps work.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

LaurenEliz, I'm being practical here. While it sounds good to go see a solicitor, you have to be prepared to follow through. That means emotionally, mentally, in every way. 

1. For most people, divorce is one of the most stressful events of one's life. If OP is struggling to such degree over a phone number appearing in a cell phone, she's not prepared to endure the tests of divorce. 

2. OP has demonstrated history of not listening to good counsel. That trait does not bode well for a legal outcome. 

3. I've yet to meet any lawyer who enjoys, or barely more than tolerates, clients' displays of being overly emotional, long winded explanations of anything that does not lead to discoverable evidence to either support or discredit the case, and certainly not ruminations. 

Thus, first step: psychiatrist. I'm typically against chemical fixes (doctor prescribed or recreational), but in this case I think it's warranted at least for a short-term therapy. 

Disclaimer: not to be construed as legal or medical advice. Just my opinions based on my own life experiences and observations.

[Stupidkupid]

17 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

LaurenEliz, I'm being practical here. While it sounds good to go see a solicitor, you have to be prepared to follow through. That means emotionally, mentally, in every way. 

1. For most people, divorce is one of the most stressful events of one's life. If OP is struggling to such degree over a phone number appearing in a cell phone, she's not prepared to endure the tests of divorce. 

2. OP has demonstrated history of not listening to good counsel. That trait does not bode well for a legal outcome. 

3. I've yet to meet any lawyer who enjoys, or barely more than tolerates, clients' displays of being overly emotional, long winded explanations of anything that does not lead to discoverable evidence to either support or discredit the case, and certainly not ruminations. 

Thus, first step: psychiatrist. I'm typically against chemical fixes (doctor prescribed or recreational), but in this case I think it's warranted at least for a short-term therapy. 

Disclaimer: not to be construed as legal or medical advice. Just my opinions based on my own life experiences and observations.

Hi @LaurenEliz how are you doing today?

 

The above is very good, practical advice although I do think seeing a solicitor, if you can get the facts straight for them, is not a bad idea to at least understand what will happen etc and prepare for that.

I am divorced. Divorce varies from place to place but it is inevitably hard, particularly with a belligerent partner who may not see sense. You have to hold strong on a lot of things. 

Go with a timeline for you lawyer:

- Our relationship started

-Our marriage started

- child A was born etc

- discovered A

- gave ultimatum

- A continued.

- H continues to lie. 

- I arrive here.

Also go with, your income and your partners, your children's ages and the house particulars (rented, mortgaged who pays).

Do your best to keep emotions out of it.

Where I live, the affair would constitute only grounds for divorce (and only you have irrefutable evidence of sexual relationship) if not, it would be unreasonable behaviour (inappropriate relationship with a woman outside of the marriage, lying etc). The affair, where I live, would not give rise to a different settlement in the finances but I know this is different in some places around the world, so worth understanding that. Where I live, naming the affair partner is actually frowned upon and advised against as the law allows the AP to then contest proceedings, slowing up the divorce and costing a lot more money with no guaranteed outcome. 

Try to keep the facts simple... but I think the above is right. Therapy. Help galvanise yourself.

EDIT: I see you're in the UK, so the above applies to you! 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Stupidkupid

[NYAG]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:01 PM, LaurenEliz said:

Thank you, so basically what he has said is nonsense 

Sounds that way to me. I mean, she's still on his phone right?

[LaurenEliz]

On 5/5/2021 at 1:14 PM, Stupidkupid said:

Hi @LaurenEliz how are you doing today?

 

The above is very good, practical advice although I do think seeing a solicitor, if you can get the facts straight for them, is not a bad idea to at least understand what will happen etc and prepare for that.

I am divorced. Divorce varies from place to place but it is inevitably hard, particularly with a belligerent partner who may not see sense. You have to hold strong on a lot of things. 

Go with a timeline for you lawyer:

- Our relationship started

-Our marriage started

- child A was born etc

- discovered A

- gave ultimatum

- A continued.

- H continues to lie. 

- I arrive here.

Also go with, your income and your partners, your children's ages and the house particulars (rented, mortgaged who pays).

Do your best to keep emotions out of it.

Where I live, the affair would constitute only grounds for divorce (and only you have irrefutable evidence of sexual relationship) if not, it would be unreasonable behaviour (inappropriate relationship with a woman outside of the marriage, lying etc). The affair, where I live, would not give rise to a different settlement in the finances but I know this is different in some places around the world, so worth understanding that. Where I live, naming the affair partner is actually frowned upon and advised against as the law allows the AP to then contest proceedings, slowing up the divorce and costing a lot more money with no guaranteed outcome. 

Try to keep the facts simple... but I think the above is right. Therapy. Help galvanise yourself.

EDIT: I see you're in the UK, so the above applies to you! 

Thank you, I have too much going on in my head to write a coherent message but I’m so thankful for you checking in. Spoke to an online therapist today also. Explained a multitude of things to her, she was great. She also said - if you want something gone, you check and check again that it has gone. In regards to the ‘sync to make sure she’s gone’ (which as you kindly explained to a non tech person and I’m so grateful), is essentially bollocks. She actually showed me over zoom what deleting a contact would entail and if he was syncing for the sole person of making sure she was gone, he wouldn’t have disconnected his phone with her still on there. 
 

have another appointment with my lawyer next week too. Will post again when I feel more ready but thank you so much 

[BaileyB]

Counselling and tech support - nice!

[LaurenEliz]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

Counselling and tech support - nice!

She was so lovely. I think she could see that I was struggling to understand syncing so she showed me! 

[ExpatInItaly]

6 hours ago, LaurenEliz said:

She was so lovely. I think she could see that I was struggling to understand syncing so she showed me! 

What was her take on the general state of your marriage?

[LaurenEliz]

What are people’s opinions on clousure messages for the ow? 
 

in my mind, by not sending one is leaving the door open to future contact. What do you all think?

[NYAG]

25 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

What are people’s opinions on clousure messages for the ow? 
 

in my mind, by not sending one is leaving the door open to future contact. What do you all think?

Always make things very clear in a message so there is no ambiguity. And then block on everything because if any line of communication is left open there is a risk.

[LaurenEliz]

5 minutes ago, NYAG said:

Always make things very clear in a message so there is no ambiguity. And then block on everything because if any line of communication is left open there is a risk.

Hi, thanks - I’m currently in the process of what is best. Block and delete with no message or block and delete with a message. 

i think if a message isn’t sent, there’s still a way back for him. Do I make sense? 

[elaine567]

You have absolutely zero control over your husband's contact with this woman.
He is not stupid.
He and she can figure out ways to get around you, if that is what he wants to do.
People who have actually been in affairs have told you how they hoodwinked the suspicious wife, why aren't you listening?
You can force him to write closure messages, block her, erase her number, but all to no avail IF they want to still keep in touch.
The number on his phone has indeed kept you busy, but have you ever considered the number is a decoy which keeps you busy, whilst he and she are communicating in some other way?

[Crazelnut]

So I gather you're giving him a 4th chance, if he blocks her? Do you really think a proven liar and cheat will keep his word THIS TIME?

[LaurenEliz]

3 minutes ago, Crazelnut said:

So I gather you're giving him a 4th chance, if he blocks her? Do you really think a proven liar and cheat will keep his word THIS TIME?

You have to understand I’m trying to do what’s best for my kids. This might not be ok with people on here and maybe it’s not best by me but it’s not about me. 

we have had a full and open discussion with one another in regards to multiple issues in our relationship and her. 
 

he says it’s my decision if he is to send her a closure message. And here is where I’m stuck. I feel if he doesn’t, it’s still leaving some sort of door open 

[RebeccaR]

20 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

he says it’s my decision if he is to send her a closure message.

The reason he is making it your decision is because he doesn’t care what you decide. Either he is already through with her (or her with him), or he already knows they will continue communicating.

I can’t see how it’s best for your kids to have a father who isn’t committed to their mother. Plenty of people make a marriage work for the sake of the kids, but it’s unlikely to be successful if one party is constantly looking elsewhere. If he’s a great dad, can’t he still be a great dad if you split up?

What did the lawyer say that made you resolved to stay?

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, LaurenEliz said:

i think if a message isn’t sent, there’s still a way back for him. Do I make sense? 

I don’t think it makes any difference. 

If he wants to continue with the woman, whether he sends a message to her or not won’t matter. Where there is a will, there is a way. 

You are trying to take control here as some form of reassurance, but you have no control. He will do what he intends to do. 

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, RebeccaR said:

he doesn’t care what you decide. Either he is already through with her (or her with him), or he already knows they will continue communicating.

Exactly. 

[Wiseman2]

26 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

I’m trying to do what’s best for my kids.

Ok, if staying married is best, then just do that, no?

[Stupidkupid]

31 minutes ago, LaurenEliz said:

You have to understand I’m trying to do what’s best for my kids. This might not be ok with people on here and maybe it’s not best by me but it’s not about me. 

we have had a full and open discussion with one another in regards to multiple issues in our relationship and her. 
 

he says it’s my decision if he is to send her a closure message. And here is where I’m stuck. I feel if he doesn’t, it’s still leaving some sort of door open 

This made me wince a little. I don't understand why people think that saying miserable forever is best for their children. 

While my mom and dad were staying together for our sake, we were overhearing conversations we shouldn't, watching them fight, drink, be upset. We were feeling the anxiety and the stress. Its horrible and damaging and you don't give you children enough credit here. People think their children don't know or feel what's going on, that's simply not true. Teaching your children that accepting this treatment in relationships, showing them that they should not put their needs first... I'm not sure that is best for your children.

I always remember, if mom was relaxed and happy, I was. I have had attachment and anxiety issues all my life, not from my parents divorcing but from the absolute Sh*t show they made at their frequent attempts to remain in their marriage.

In my experience, the door is open whether he sends the message or not. Gently, his persistent and continued lying to you about her shows you this.

I think you'll be back here or somewhere else within a year or so but I do wish you luck.