Catfish

[ZA Dater]

This may prove to be a deeply unpopular topic so mods if you deem fit either delete or close. Anyone here thought about this or done it? If you have how did your results change when looking and how did they change?

Is there any advantage in this, clearly there is not but let us suppose doing so means you perhaps are able to get a better idea how looks impede or assist you when searching. Lets also assume nobody who looks ever gets any critique, thus this might be a way to get some form of critique. 

I'll admit to having done this before and I can already see which members here are going to climb into me for doing it, do not worry I have thick skin. Why did I do it, well after years of various OLD platforms and not going any attractive matches I wanted to see how a change of look would change my prospects but I also wanted to see how a change of look would change the level of engagement. 

For the purposes of this I used no face pictures at all, merely body pictures (I have established my face is a serious dating impediment but then again it would seem all of my appearance is an impediment) of a more built person, nothing dramatic and the results were more matches but more interesting was a different level of engagement, suddenly women were actually making an effort in conversation, they were asking things, they actually wanted to meet up. Using my own pictures, I seldom had any matches and when I did the conversation was like squeezing water from a stone, I always got the impression I had to sell myself to them, whereas now they were selling themselves to me.

More amusing still was the fact that MANY told me looks do not matter, well they did actually but you can draw the lines between the dots here. Did I got and meet any of these people, yes I did actually and you know what I actually did not care either because on each occasion the conversation was very good before meeting, it was a case "you are so interesting to chat, you have such an interesting life" but suddenly in person those aspects did not matter. I repeat again "looks do not matter to me". 

Would I do this again, absolutely not because its pointless and I have proven all I needed to prove with this. Did it make me feel a bit better about things, in a way yes because if you can understand why something happens than you can rationalise it.

[Gaeta]

So you made an experiment that proved that online dating is all about look, no matter what people say? I think we knew that already no?

[elaine567]

You like a pretty face, women like a pretty face... and...

When women say it is not about the looks they generally mean they are not looking for a guy with film star good looks, but they will still have a cut off point as to how far below that they will go. That cut off point will depend on the woman and how attractive the whole  package presented is.
A guy who is otherwise sexy or has a great personality or is rich or who she has a lot in common with, may be someone she will give a chance to, despite him falling below her cut off point looks wise. 
She may lower her cut off point just for him.
 

 

[SumGuy]

ahhh back to the thesis that looks "matter" 100% or 90% or what have you, with whatever missing percentage made up by money.  Your cat fishing proves what we already know that sexy people can easily attract people.  That does not mean that is all that matters, or that you really sexy looks to get a sexy woman.   Your experiment is flawed because you go t interest based on pictures....you have no idea if a person in that body with you r personality would actual go from a date to more, or from a ONS to more.  No one ever denied there are women who are all about looks, rather saying there are plenty of attractive women who are not...women where you personality is just as important.  All you have proven is sexy men can attract a certain group of women almost no matter what is in their profile, same goes for sexy women...yes there are people where that is what it is all about...that only proves that is what matters to them.

[Alpacalia]

You could have just browsed through a few male or female-oriented magazines to get a better picture of what catches people's interest at first.

[ZA Dater]

23 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

ahhh back to the thesis that looks "matter" 100% or 90% or what have you, with whatever missing percentage made up by money.  Your cat fishing proves what we already know that sexy people can easily attract people.  That does not mean that is all that matters, or that you really sexy looks to get a sexy woman.   Your experiment is flawed because you go t interest based on pictures....you have no idea if a person in that body with you r personality would actual go from a date to more, or from a ONS to more.  No one ever denied there are women who are all about looks, rather saying there are plenty of attractive women who are not...women where you personality is just as important.  All you have proven is sexy men can attract a certain group of women almost no matter what is in their profile, same goes for sexy women...yes there are people where that is what it is all about...that only proves that is what matters to them.

Actually not. The point really is "oh you have an amazing personality, you are such an interesting person" and the fact they actually put in some effort.....the former is negated completely by looks and the latter is a function of looks. I just found it interesting how much easier it is for attractive people to get interest.

[Weezy1973]

OLD is about strangers dating so of course looks are going to garner the most attention. Just like at a bar or club. When you don’t know anything about a person except the way they look, that’s the only thing that will attract you. Not surprising at all.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

OLD is about strangers dating so of course looks are going to garner the most attention. Just like at a bar or club. When you don’t know anything about a person except the way they look, that’s the only thing that will attract you. Not surprising at all.

I get that but when you have a great conversation and she says it's not all about the looks that's actually untrue because I had a really great conversation with someone but apparently I was too ugly for any of that conversation to actually matter. So it was still interesting to me that mostly it's impossible to make up for wholly unappealing looks.

 

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, SumGuy said:

ahhh back to the thesis that looks "matter" 100% or 90% or what have you, with whatever missing percentage made up by money.  Your cat fishing proves what we already know that sexy people can easily attract people.  That does not mean that is all that matters, or that you really sexy looks to get a sexy woman.   Your experiment is flawed because you go t interest based on pictures....you have no idea if a person in that body with you r personality would actual go from a date to more, or from a ONS to more.  No one ever denied there are women who are all about looks, rather saying there are plenty of attractive women who are not...women where you personality is just as important.  All you have proven is sexy men can attract a certain group of women almost no matter what is in their profile, same goes for sexy women...yes there are people where that is what it is all about...that only proves that is what matters to them.

Oddly my personality mattered not one jot. As soon as they saw the real me it the idea collapsed irrespective how nice the conversation was and with a few the conversation was good.

This experiment actually helped a lot because it was in many ways the best feedback on ever got. 

More interesting seeing how women behave when they are attracted, from this I realised that actually nobody found me attractive at all because they put in zero effort at anything. Was a case of me having to sell and sell, whereas now they were selling themselves to me.

Again it was useful. 

 

[Wiseman2]

Have you read/seen "Cyrano de Bergerac"?

That may be the earliest work describing posing as someone else because of perceived (physical) shortcomings.

Perhaps your alter-ego comes across more confidently so all you are seeing is a placebo effect.

[elaine567]

Thing is you can cover up bodies with clothes, but faces prior to the pandemic anyway, are always on show.
So faces tend to matter a lot to most, both men and women..
But saying that how do you know it was your face they didn't like?
OK they didn't see your face but they also didn't observe your manner or mannerisms, they didn't see you talk the talk or walk the walk, they didn't know if you were boring or interesting, fascinating or annoying... So many things that may have been turnoffs IRL, not just your face...

Edited May 2, 2021 by elaine567

[basil67]

You've just proved that people who use a medium which is based on visual attraction are visual.  I can't see any news here. 

A more accurate test is what happens when an average looking man who's got 'game' is out in a social situation and gets talking to women.   There was a poster who was here up until about a year ago - he said that he didn't have the looks for OLD, but he still managed to meet women because IRL his flirting skills were strong.  Based on personal experience, I have no doubt this was true.  

 

[elaine567]

You are trying to blame your looks but the truth is by what you say you have no game and you shy away from anything remotely sexual.
Women don't tend to like men  being crass and uncouth about sex, but most women want to see something sexual about a man they are looking to date. 
If the "spark isn't there, then it will never work.

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I get that but when you have a great conversation and she says it's not all about the looks that's actually untrue because I had a really great conversation with someone but apparently I was too ugly for any of that conversation to actually matter. So it was still interesting to me that mostly it's impossible to make up for wholly unappealing looks.

 

A great conversation vs. looks is not the equation. I have great conversations with many of my friends and family, none of whom I wish to have a romantic relationship with. It’s a false dichotomy. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Weezy1973

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

A great conversation vs. looks is not the equation. I have great conversations with many of my friends and family, none of whom I wish to have a romantic relationship with. It’s a false dichotomy. 

Ok lets take this one further, a long conversation "I really want to spend time with you, you are so interesting, its nice to have someone who I can actually talk to", the truth of the matter if if I had the looks of a Viking the above would be irrelevant. What I actually sought to prove or disprove is if personality and conversation can ever actually overcome looks and granted it might but when you go from "excellent conversation, I want do spend lots of time wit you" to absolutely nothing you realize that perhaps the excellent conversation actually did not matter at all.

More interesting too was the fact women put in some effort when they find someone attractive, logical I suppose but on the odd occasion I have matched with someone attractive trying to get conversation out of them is like getting water out of a rock, the reverse is true if there is physical attraction.

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

You've just proved that people who use a medium which is based on visual attraction are visual.  I can't see any news here. 

A more accurate test is what happens when an average looking man who's got 'game' is out in a social situation and gets talking to women.   There was a poster who was here up until about a year ago - he said that he didn't have the looks for OLD, but he still managed to meet women because IRL his flirting skills were strong.  Based on personal experience, I have no doubt this was true.  

 

Probably true and I have seen this first hand but maybe its me, maybe its the circumstances I have seen this but again they have other characteristics which were deemed attractive.

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Thing is you can cover up bodies with clothes, but faces prior to the pandemic anyway, are always on show.
So faces tend to matter a lot to most, both men and women..
But saying that how do you know it was your face they didn't like?
OK they didn't see your face but they also didn't observe your manner or mannerisms, they didn't see you talk the talk or walk the walk, they didn't know if you were boring or interesting, fascinating or annoying... So many things that may have been turnoffs IRL, not just your face...

One of the things I like now....having to wear a mask.

I know its my face because as soon as I show a picture of my face, well everything totally collapses in totality and any interest vanishes completely. The big irony here is my life is very different to most but even that is not deemed interesting.

Just a FYI I conducted this experiment the reverse way to and I kid you not I saw the same sort o "game" from every single guy virtually. It was pictures with friends drinking, pictures doing sport, topless pictures, pictures in exotic destinations, gym pictures.

[luiscasabuena]

The way I see things...

* When I'm using OLD, I tend to swipe right when a woman has an interesting personality even though she may not be physically attractive so, based on my experience, personality is also a factor in the dating world.

* I'm guessing that the reason these girls turn away from you is because they were underwhelmed by your actual appearance vis-a-vis your appearance on OLD. I think that deception is always a turn off so I don't think it's your looks that turn them away but rather the fact that you didn't use your actual photos.

* Perhaps you didn't show your funny quirky personality on your OLD profile? I don't know. We don't know. Unless we see your OLD profiles and pictures. That's all.

 

[basil67]

14 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Just a FYI I conducted this experiment the reverse way to and I kid you not I saw the same sort o "game" from every single guy virtually. It was pictures with friends drinking, pictures doing sport, topless pictures, pictures in exotic destinations, gym pictures.

Yes.  Those pictures demonstrate that they have multiple interests, friends, are social, fun etc etc.  

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, elaine567 said:

You are trying to blame your looks but the truth is by what you say you have no game and you shy away from anything remotely sexual.
Women don't tend to like men  being crass and uncouth about sex, but most women want to see something sexual about a man they are looking to date. 
If the "spark isn't there, then it will never work.

Well in terms of OLD the spark clearly is based on looks.....again I just find it amazing in conversation we get as far as "well lets go for dinner and back to my place afterwards, I want to spend time with you" but the stuff which carries the conversation means nothing when they see a picture. Again I suppose the reality is one of choice, hundreds of guys to choose from so why settle for an ugly face even though the conversation is good? It was refreshing to actually get some fake attention so there was some feel good about it. 

Granted I think in general people do need some sort of game I suppose but to lavish attention on someone when you do not know their game seems a bit silly.

[elaine567]

What picture are you showing them? Is it the one you have as you avatar?

[Prudence V]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Oddly my personality mattered not one jot. As soon as they saw the real me it the idea collapsed irrespective how nice the conversation was and with a few the conversation was good.

Or, they lost interest when they saw you’d been dishonest - they weren’t sure how much was fake and how much real after that, and no longer trusted you. If I (as a woman) was scammed by some dude like that, it wouldn’t matter how great a connection (I thought) we’d had before. I’d feel outraged at the betrayal and I’d dump him as fast as I could. 

[luiscasabuena]

11 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

Or, they lost interest when they saw you’d been dishonest - they weren’t sure how much was fake and how much real after that, and no longer trusted you. If I (as a woman) was scammed by some dude like that, it wouldn’t matter how great a connection (I thought) we’d had before. I’d feel outraged at the betrayal and I’d dump him as fast as I could. 

Yeahp, I think it's mostly the dishonesty. Maybe you should choose a photo that's way nearer to your actual looks? In that way, the deception wouldn't be so visible...

[ZA Dater]

 

15 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

What picture are you showing them? Is it the one you have as you avatar?

Yeah. 

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

Or, they lost interest when they saw you’d been dishonest - they weren’t sure how much was fake and how much real after that, and no longer trusted you. If I (as a woman) was scammed by some dude like that, it wouldn’t matter how great a connection (I thought) we’d had before. I’d feel outraged at the betrayal and I’d dump him as fast as I could. 

Well yes that is the other side of the coin. Point being it becomes laughable because so much flirting I see contains so much in my mind the two are equally bad. The entire point I guess is to oversell in order to put yourself ahead of the competition in whatever way you can.