Catfish

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Generally when he says this he means by high net worth clients from work.

Exactly this yes, work runs through my entire life and my hobbies, everything revolves around that.

 

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Exactly this yes, work runs through my entire life and my hobbies, everything revolves around that.

 

The amount of time you spend on this forum and thinking about dating would suggest your work isn’t as time consuming as you suggest. You just don’t have much of a life outside of work so it might seem that way. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

The amount of time you spend on this forum and thinking about dating would suggest your work isn’t as time consuming as you suggest. You just don’t have much of a life outside of work so it might seem that way. 

You right I do not have much of a life outside of work but I never really switch from work either. Oh and if I were so socially inept I would not be able to conduct the series of meetings I seem to end up having most weeks. 

It would be nice to share life with someone but collectively this forum is leading me to think it might actually not be as worthwhile I thought it might be.

Will I regret the "wasted years", maybe yes but only the fact I could never got the sort of experiences I actually wanted. I had a chat with two guys this past weekend, their take on dating is just to go out and get laid and move on, the game really is, both are fit and on the upper scale in terms of looks and they get to do the choosing, neither wants for attention and then the game becomes very different. They go out and ladies are receptive to random discussion.

I think the entire experience is rather different from that point of view. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by ZA Dater

[Weezy1973]

57 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You right I do not have much of a life outside of work but I never really switch from work either.

Most people (including women) strive for some balance. But being passionate about your job is great. But from your own posting history, you seem to have plenty of spare time as well. 

 

58 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It would be nice to share life with someone but collectively this forum is leading me to think it might actually not be as worthwhile I thought it might be.

This forum has done no such thing. This is again you twisting things to fit into the narrative (and cycle) that lays out in your head. 

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 I had a chat with two guys this past weekend, their take on dating is just to go out and get laid and move on,

Is this even relevant? From everything you’ve posted, you have no interest at all in dating just for sex. Why does this even matter to you?

[elaine567]

Why are you hanging out with guys who make you feel bad?
Who really knew... fit, good looking sociable, guys looking to get laid would be largely successful...?
It's a new one on me... 

Its leagues again, but they don't really exist, do they????

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

It would be nice to share life with someone but collectively this forum is leading me to think it might actually not be as worthwhile I thought it might be.

Why wouldn't it be?

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Oh and if I were so socially inept I would not be able to conduct the series of meetings I seem to end up having most weeks. 

The skill set required to be able to conduct business meetings is very different from what one needs to form connections in their personal life. It’s telling that you don’t understand this. 

[bene]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I had a chat with two guys this past weekend, their take on dating is just to go out and get laid and move on, the game really is, both are fit and on the upper scale in terms of looks and they get to do the choosing. 

As someone pointed out above, you should take a good look on what your objective really is. On one hand you say how you miss a relationship, companionship, spending time with someone you love and then bam! your ideal is some sleazy guy who goes through women like they’re a commodity.  You say how you’re not into club scene and shallow people but these are the guys whose word you’re taking as gospel? 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, bene said:

As someone pointed out above, you should take a good look on what your objective really is. On one hand you say how you miss a relationship, companionship, spending time with someone you love and then bam! your ideal is some sleazy guy who goes through women like they’re a commodity.  You say how you’re not into club scene and shallow people but these are the guys whose word you’re taking as gospel? 

Well these guys seem to do pretty well with dates, far better than I do so the question who's approach is wrong and it would seem it might be mine! As some has pointed out it takes two for a transaction and maybe I am wrong to want the things I do, maybe the way they do things is ultimately more successful, if nothing else the success they enjoy just proves that whatever I try will not work because ladies seem to want what they are offering.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Why wouldn't it be?

Because the near endless list of compromises frankly make it seem totally pointless. I mean why not just date anyone irrespective if you like them or not, so long as they like you, I mean is that not what matters?

 

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Why are you hanging out with guys who make you feel bad?
Who really knew... fit, good looking sociable, guys looking to get laid would be largely successful...?
It's a new one on me... 

Its leagues again, but they don't really exist, do they????

Actually it was quite an amusing afternoon, one of the more amusing ones I have had lately and I actually did not feel bad, the fact remains there are LOTS who buy into what they are offering and none of my choice who buy into the way I go about trying to date. They spin such nonsense which people into, just once again re affirm all the beliefs I am continually told are nonsense and untrue. In one month they get more dates than I do in 5 years. I am starting to think the only people who would actually buy into what I offer are people who themselves have very limited options.

They are on the same apps I am on too. 

I am quite capable of joking about my pathetic dating life, I do not feel ashamed about it, it is what it is. 

[Weezy1973]

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Well these guys seem to do pretty well with dates, far better than I do so the question who's approach is wrong and it would seem it might be mine!

Do you understand what anecdotal evidence is? And why it’s foolish to base ones thoughts and beliefs on it?

 

10 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I mean why not just date anyone irrespective if you like them or not, so long as they like you, I mean is that not what matters?

 

Nobody has suggested this. Why do you keep bringing it up?

 

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

the fact remains there are LOTS who buy into what they are offering and none of my choice who buy into the way I go about trying to date.

You’re not trying to date as far as I can see. They are. They have a clear goal and doing what it takes to succeed. You don’t have a clear goal of what you want. You use very vague language and talk in circles. No wonder you’re not getting anywhere. 

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Most people (including women) strive for some balance. But being passionate about your job is great. But from your own posting history, you seem to have plenty of spare time as well. 

 

This forum has done no such thing. This is again you twisting things to fit into the narrative (and cycle) that lays out in your head. 

 

Is this even relevant? From everything you’ve posted, you have no interest at all in dating just for sex. Why does this even matter to you?

It matters because they are getting vastly more dates than I am which suggests there is a much bigger market for what they offer than the approach  I take. More interesting still is they do end up dating some of these people too. 

@SumGuy did hit the nail on the head earlier though when he mentioned transaction based dating because honestly when I thought about it I cannot think of anyone I know who does not date like this to some extent primarily because they have choice. Yes it does not often lead to long term relationships but its certainly better than what I find myself with! I have always taken a long term view but maybe that is totally wrong. 

Furthermore in almost every instance its obvious to see why certain people are dating others, there is always something tangible involved. As lovey as A is I never stood a chance there based on pure economic power, of course Elaine will say this is fine and it is but then its also fine for me to turn down people I do not find attractive. 

My view comes from the fact I am starting to believe love really does not exist in dating context, love the person for what they have, love the person for what you can get out of them, love the person for the status they have but how many people really lover a person for the person they are, in my cynical mind I'd guess this love is pretty rare. The people I found the most attractive were ones who captivated me for the people they were rather than one stand out quality. 

These guys only go for looks but I ask myself then how many ladies only go for looks, money and status, it surely take two to tango. You need to put yourself in my shoes to understand this because I look around me and its IMPOSSIBLE for me no matter how I try to flirt, try to banter, try to be fun and its just a hiding from starts to end. Combine with this similar experiences on OLD and the dots all connect really well, even if for many of you this makes no sense. Someone I went to school with married her first bf, has two kids and is very happy so I am not saying this does not happen, another went for a guy 12 years older who is well off. 

I think I am seeing more clearly than ever before.

 

[ZA Dater]

17 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Do you understand what anecdotal evidence is? And why it’s foolish to base ones thoughts and beliefs on it?

 

Nobody has suggested this. Why do you keep bringing it up?

 

You’re not trying to date as far as I can see. They are. They have a clear goal and doing what it takes to succeed. You don’t have a clear goal of what you want. You use very vague language and talk in circles. No wonder you’re not getting anywhere. 

Seeing as I end up meeting a vast number of these ladies I have enough evidence hahah! The dates I want is someone I can share life with, take an interest in their life, be there for, listen to them after a bad day, hug them to make them feel better, do things with and laugh and smile with. A brought a lot of this out from me, if nothing else I proved to myself what I can do, yes she did not want me but I proved with someone I really like I am capable of really getting into the game and if nothing else I can summon up lots of confidence, the key was I actually wanted that sort of experience.

[Weezy1973]

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Furthermore in almost every instance its obvious to see why certain people are dating others, there is always something tangible involved.

Yes. As you’ve said, like pairs up with like. In other words, leagues. Seems like you accept that concept. 

 

26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

As lovey as A is I never stood a chance there based on pure economic power, of course Elaine will say this is fine and it is but then its also fine for me to turn down people I do not find attractive. 

Of course. You shouldn’t be dating people that are unattractive to you. We all agree. Why do you keep bringing this up over and over again???

 

28 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My view comes from the fact I am starting to believe love really does not exist in dating context…

Correct. These days, when most people are dating strangers, you don’t date people you love. You date people who are “maybes” to see if you’re compatible, and then fall in love over time. 

 

31 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

…how many people really love a person for the person they are, in my cynical mind I'd guess this love is pretty rare.

Most people that are in long term relationships experience this. Not rare. Although yes, purely transactional relationships also exist, just not as common. Most people get married / enter into long term relationships for love. 

 

33 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

The people I found the most attractive were ones who captivated me for the people they were rather than one stand out quality. 

I suspect this is you rationalizing. Both “K” and “A” you were attracted to before you even knew them. It takes a long time to know someone well enough to know them “for the people they are”. 

 

36 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

These guys only go for looks but I ask myself then how many ladies only go for looks, money and status, it surely take two to tango.

You just answered your own question. The types of women these guys are pairing up with are the types that prioritize looks, money and status. Are you interested in those types of women? 

 

38 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 

I think I am seeing more clearly than ever before.

 

Nope. You’re just making excuses to not do anything different. Keep doing the same things over and over. 

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am starting to think the only people who would actually buy into what I offer are people who themselves have very limited options.

Well, that is how it tends to work. It is "leagues" in action.
Women with many options are not looking to date guys with few or no options, are they?
Men with many options do not go looking for women other men would reject, do they?
Even those with an average number of options are not looking for people they assume  have few or none...
Most are looking for their equal or to do a bit of "dating up"... if it is indeed possible...

With very  limited options, you are only really desirable to others in the same boat...

The trick many try to employ is to find "damaged goods" in the hope of repairing them... She is so damn hot but she is "crazy", he is very good looking but he is a violent thug when drunk... Their flaws limit their options, so they become available to "lesser" beings...
That was essentially what you tried to do with A, the tragic widow with a fatherless infant, but she wasn't damaged or desperate enough to discount the huge disparity in leagues...

[SumGuy]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well these guys seem to do pretty well with dates, far better than I do so the question who's approach is wrong and it would seem it might be mine! ...

It's not black or white...these guys are fishing in the right pond, for the fish they want and are using the right bait.  Many different ponds, different fish and each with different bait.  We'll just assume they are being honest with you and themselves.

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

It's not black or white...these guys are fishing in the right pond, for the fish they want and are using the right bait.  Many different ponds, different fish and each with different bait.  We'll just assume they are being honest with you and themselves.

But ZA Dater is hoping to catch those same fish from the same pond, as his "player" mates,  only he is using the wrong bait...

The fish that would grab his bait, frequent different waters but he chooses not to want to go fish there.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Even those with an average number of options are not looking for people they assume  have few or none...
 

This is an area where I don’t see things the same as Elaine. The vast majority of people aren’t consciously calculating the options a potential partner has. It’s just some people have more than others and that’s generally based on some combination of attractiveness traits. Nobody is looking at @ZA Dater saying “he has few or no options therefore I won’t date him”. It’s just the women he’s interested in, a very small segment of women, have better options. 

 

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

With very  limited options, you are only really desirable to others in the same boat...
 

He has plenty of options. Or at least an average amount of options. The women swiping right on him on Tinder are shooting out of their league. This is pretty much the rule on Tinder. I call it poop picking, because so many people pull out their phones and swipe away on every picture they find attractive while they’re pooping….it’s not indicative of anything…

[basil67]

I wouldn't have thought that options had anything to do with it.   When I was dating, if guy and I had built a fun, flirty and interesting rapport and he asked me out, I accepted.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

But ZA Dater is hoping to catch those same fish from the same pond, as his "player" mates,  only he is using the wrong bait..

 

This is true.

@ZA Dater I can't help but wonder why you would want the type of woman who goes for a player.   And why you have a social circle which includes players.  Unless they aren't actually players and end up having meaningful relationships????

Frankly, you couldn't pay me to date a player, hang out with players or associate with people who hang out with players.

[jspice]

41 minutes ago, basil67 said:

This is true.

@ZA Dater I can't help but wonder why you would want the type of woman who goes for a player.   And why you have a social circle which includes players.  Unless they aren't actually players and end up having meaningful relationships????

Frankly, you couldn't pay me to date a player, hang out with players or associate with people who hang out with players.

Because the players attract the models he’s hoping will fall for his debating skills. 
He complains about his so-called friends and judges them as harshly as he does normal women but he won’t find other friends because these are his key to the women he’s trying to get. 
ZADater is as much a user as the people around him except he doesn’t get to use who he wants in the way he wants. 

[elaine567]

8 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Nobody is looking at @ZA Dater saying “he has few or no options therefore I won’t date him”. 

They probably are, unless they also have few or no options, and in that case they may give an unpopular guy a chance.
People size up each other pretty fast, given a crowd they can easily pick out the stars, plenty options, the no hopers, no options, and in the middle, the average.
Based on looks, charisma, entertainment value, class, education, wealth etc...

Most quickly learn where they stand in that pecking order and set their sights accordingly.
They get fed up of being rejected continuously if they set their sights too high, and so become realistic in their goals or give up altogether, OR they decide to keep on bashing their head up against a brick wall, anyway...
ZA's rigidity, his stubbornness, his pertinacity, his refusal to accept reality,  his refusal to "change", puts him into the latter "head bashing" category,,,

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, SumGuy said:

It's not black or white...these guys are fishing in the right pond, for the fish they want and are using the right bait.  Many different ponds, different fish and each with different bait.  We'll just assume they are being honest with you and themselves.

The point I am making is they are very successful at getting date using that bait, those ladies must surely realize these guys are players and yet they go along with it, in all honesty the one does try look for meaningful relationships but finds far greater success looking for flings, this to me is telling because it says a lot of ladies find appeal in the happy go lucky player who can take her to nice places, spoil her and from the outset she must know such a "relationship" will not last.

My approach has always been, find someone I find attractive, get to know them, get comfortable around them and see from there. Logically there is nothing exciting about that approach, really there is not, in a world full of instant gratification that approach offers very little gratification at all, being bluntly honest here. 

As for ponds, I really do not see any alternative pond because a lot of the "success" these guys get is off the very same apps I use.

 

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

This is true.

@ZA Dater I can't help but wonder why you would want the type of woman who goes for a player.   And why you have a social circle which includes players.  Unless they aren't actually players and end up having meaningful relationships????

Frankly, you couldn't pay me to date a player, hang out with players or associate with people who hang out with players.

The reality is where I sit there are MUCH more ladies who actually want that player guy than those who are interested in me. I have been saying this all along, it does not seem to matter what one brings to the table, its automatically worthless because it seems to me the player lifestyle is just more exciting. Yes, some of them have three week or 3 month relationships but from the outset they are not interested in anything long term.

I wont lie this player lifestyle used to disgust me but then I realized that actually it would seem ladies like this so again it takes two to tango.  A lot is made on this form of the other ponds,  honestly I am not sure there are in fact too many other ponds unless one goes to super religious people or one tries to find some sort of hobby where the more homely sort of person is around but as someone who has tried to date those sorts of people too, a dog behavior expert, an au pair and multiple teachers spring to mind and this pond was not terribly successful either.