Catfish

[Weezy1973]

46 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not have an issue with this if I saw potential. The irony is I am effectively the damaged good! I still do not see people as being lesser or greater just attractive and less attractive.

I think the point is it won’t work for the most part. And what damage do you have? Just curious….

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

You seem to think he’s in the least attractive group.

Purely by what he keeps telling us as to his lack of success and how he apparently attracts so little attention from average women.
If he was average then many average women would recognise that surely?
That may however be a function of his desire for very attractive women.
Who most would see as average, are downgraded by him to undateable...

[Weezy1973]

4 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Purely by what he keeps telling us as to his lack of success and how he apparently attracts so little attention from average women.
If he was average then many average women would recognise that surely?
That may however be a function of his desire for very attractive women.
Who most would see as average, are downgraded by him to undateable...

Yes exactly. He doesn’t even see the middle ground. Which is why I strongly advocate for him to get into situations where he sees the same people over and over again. That’s when a fellow average person can become attractive because of their non superficial qualities. 
 

Of course he refuses to do this so it’s a moot point really.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, jspice said:

I merely use your own words. Your problem is you say so much to argue with people that you forget what you said and when 🤣🤣🤣

 

I don’t think he’s racist, but he seems to certainly be classist. And in South Africa that might amount to the same thing.

[Prudence V]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

You jump to the massive assumption I have only had dates with "white" ladies, again this is untrue but you jumped to that assumption immediately for reasons not in evidence. 

I didn’t claim you had only ever dated white women, merely that *from your own account* that was what you said you wanted. It was in my post, but let me quote it again here to remind you.
 

Your own words. Are they not evidence enough? Or is reading these days “making assumptions”? 

On 7/21/2021 at 1:08 PM, jspice said:

You shouldn’t. You’re absolutely right. Don’t. 
Don’t give anyone a chance who requires anything of you. Hold out for the

tall

thin

worldly

White

model,

who can have her pick of men but will choose you. Don’t come back here till you find her. 

 

On 7/21/2021 at 1:44 PM, ZA Dater said:

By the way the first 4 above would be sufficient, thanks for asking!

The first four, as noted, are

Quote

tall

thin

worldly

White

That was what *you* said you were wanting. It wasn’t an assumption - it was basic reading comprehension. 

[Prudence V]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

"Worldly" actually means not wealthy but someone who is not apathetic, has nothing to do with wealth or race. 

“Not apathetic” is usually described as “engaged”, not “worldly”. I had assumed English was your home language (on the evidence of how dismissive you are of Afrikaans-speakers) but perhaps I’m incorrect on that, in which case I apologise. 
 

Worldly, OTOH, is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as 

Quote

Worldly

1) of a person, sophisticated and experienced.

“Sophisticated”  implies the knowledge and attitudes fostered by cultural capital, while “experienced” implies having had the resources to access those experiences. My reading of “worldly” as someone with resources is not out of line. If you meant something non-standard by your use of the term, different to what standard understandings that first-language speakers use (supported by the arbiter of the English language, the OED), perhaps you should have defined it earlier so that we didn’t all assume you meant what we all understand by the term. 
 

But perhaps this Lewis Carrollesque use of language, together with those legendary debating skills, might be hampering your dating success? 

[Prudence V]

20 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

I don’t think he’s racist, but he seems to certainly be classist. And in South Africa that might amount to the same thing.

Largely true… though there is a growing black middle class, whose kids attend the same schools that people like ZAD would have attended (private schools or “Model C” schools) and whose accents would be very “southern suburbs”. And many of those women date white guys, just as many of those men are dating white women, since those are the kind of people they went to school with and feel comfortable around, more than their contemporaries from the townships. 
 

But ZAD expressly said he was interested in white women (quoted above) rather than all middle / upper class women, and tore a strip off me for suggesting that wealth / class had anything to do with what he fancied (apparently English is not his first language, and his understanding of “worldly” means “engaged”, see post above), so it’s all a little unclear. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Why not? I am told I need to broaden my criteria so why not be open to these people, the fact everyone wants them must mean they must be desirable, surely I mean guys like me nobody wants so as people have pointed out I wont be desirable because of that.

Added to this there seems to be plenty of women want to be used and dropped, far more in fact that those who would want to get to know me.

In the post immediately above this ^ one you say you won't date a woman with a certain accent and that's that. Now here you say you'll do something because people are telling you to. So sure, you'll do this thing you know will never happen. 

Your story slips and changes continuously in order to avoid having to be intimate with a woman. You'll say literally anything that takes to accomplish - avoiding touching, being with, a woman.  

That's why literally nothing anyone ever says here will change anything, because you are actively making sure nothing changes, using every method at your disposal.

This post will also earn a "but but but" which is why this, like your other threads, is dozens of pages long and goes nowhere, and never will.

Edited July 27, 2021 by CaliforniaGirl

[Prudence V]

43 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Most women are relationship oriented. I’m beginning to question whether you have an accurate grasp of reality. Most adults are either in a relationship or married.

I’m not sure if there are recent stats on this, but CT used to be well-known as one of the hardest places for a woman to find a serious relationship, owing to the relative scarcity of single, heterosexual men. Hookups are easy to find, but guys to settle down with? Notsomuch. 
 

ZAD should be browsing in a buyers’ market, with able to have his pick. But he’s terminally unwilling to look anywhere other than on dating apps and in clubs, where relationship-oriented women are not going to be in any significant numbers, so he keeps finding that the women he meets are not what he’s looking for. A bit like that cartoon of the drunk guy looking for his car key under the street lamp, although that wasn’t where he dropped them, but because it’s easier to see under the street lamp…

[CaliforniaGirl]

39 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yes exactly. He doesn’t even see the middle ground. Which is why I strongly advocate for him to get into situations where he sees the same people over and over again. That’s when a fellow average person can become attractive because of their non superficial qualities. 
 

Of course he refuses to do this so it’s a moot point really.

He can't, because if he could see the middle ground the very real possibility of a relationship would exist. 

[Prudence V]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have always gone with the view of it being an equal playing field which is perhaps wrong on many levels. 

It’s never been an equal playing field. 
 

Attractive people have more options (evidenced by your own preference for models). 
Wealthy people have more options (as you yourself have noted).

Slim people have more options (though this is culturally contextual; in rural black communities, slimness is sometimes equated with HIV+ status, and is seen as not attractive).

Well-educated people have more options (often correlated with better employment prospects, therefore greater wealth).

White people (in SA) have more options (often correlated with wealth and education). 
 

In certain places (like CT), heterosexual men have more options. 
 

People who are outgoing, comfortable in their own skins, lighthearted and positive have more options. 
 

People who can speak more than one language with sufficient fluency have more options. 
 

People with diverse interests have more options. 
 

This is all self-evident - the stuff you’d read in Cosmo or Men’s Health, really. Viewing the playing field as level is a neoliberal con to blame the structurally disadvantaged for their own lack of success - but that’s a discussion that belongs in the Politics forum. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

Just now, Prudence V said:

It’s never been an equal playing field. 
 

Attractive people have more options (evidenced by your own preference for models). 
Wealthy people have more options (as you yourself have noted).

Slim people have more options (though this is culturally contextual; in rural black communities, slimness is sometimes equated with HIV+ status, and is seen as not attractive).

Well-educated people have more options (often correlated with better employment prospects, therefore greater wealth).

White people (in SA) have more options (often correlated with wealth and education). 
 

In certain places (like CT), heterosexual men have more options. 
 

People who are outgoing, comfortable in their own skins, lighthearted and positive have more options. 
 

People who can speak more than one language with sufficient fluency have more options. 
 

People with diverse interests have more options. 
 

This is all self-evident - the stuff you’d read in Cosmo or Men’s Health, really. Viewing the playing field as level is a neoliberal con to blame the structurally disadvantaged for their own lack of success - but that’s a discussion that belongs in the Politics forum. 

We've seen ZA's picture. He doesn't have seven eyeballs and a missing leg. He could attract a reasonably attractive woman if he weren't so desperate to keep them away from him. He has stated many times that he dates because society "demands" it and because his family demands it. It's pretty obvious nothing anyone says will ever change his mind because he does not actually want a woman close to him.

Your post, and this one, and all of the posts will be but, but, but and ridiculous hyperbole and "I would date a woman I wasn't blown away by" followed by reports of how mentally deranged any woman in that category is because he was exactly her type and she was excited, or whatever.

[Prudence V]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't like an Afrikaans accent, is there an issue with that?

Only insofar as it narrows your already tiny droplet to fish in, even smaller. There are more Afrikaans-speaking white people than English-speaking white people in SA, and possibly CT depending on how you define CT and where you draw the boundaries. 
 

It can also be read as a signal of prejudice - even if you don’t intend that. You might see it as personal preference, but an eligible potential date might see you flinch on hearing an Afrikaans accent and think, that guy is prejudiced - not for me! 

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not like extremely conservative religious people

I don’t recall anyone saying you had to? There are not many of these in CT anyway, unless you’re speaking about some of the “church aunties” in places like Steenberg or Nyanga, and I suspect you’re not. 

[Prudence V]

6 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

He has stated many times that he dates because society "demands" it and because his family demands it.

Usually that’s code for being in the closet - but if that were true, ZAD would be in exactly the right place to be tripping over potential dates, and he’s not expressed any interest beyond the platonic in any of the men he’s mentioned, so it seems unlikely. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I guess we just picture @ZA Dater differently. While most people can pick out the most attractive and least attractive in a room, the vast majority of people are average and I think @ZA Dater is in the average group. You seem to think he’s in the least attractive group. Neither of us really knows though.

From his picture he looks like an average guy. His whole thing about being hideous is hyperbole and earns tons of responses.

[Prudence V]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its amazing what you read and choose to interpret in a particular way.

We only have what you tell us to go on. If you want us to interpret things in a different way, provide different evidence (or explain what you mean when you use language in a non-standard way, so that we don’t “assume” you mean what everyone else assumes a word to mean). 

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

Usually that’s code for being in the closet - but if that were true, ZAD would be in exactly the right place to be tripping over potential dates, and he’s not expressed any interest beyond the platonic in any of the men he’s mentioned, so it seems unlikely. 

It could be for any reason, which is why only a therapist could help, and we here can not, and which is why he finds every excuse as to why therapy is an insane idea that "never works." He will then explain his idea of having "tried therapy": relationship coaches. 

Honestly I don't know why the admins allow these repeat posts on literally the same theme to go on and on and on for dozens of pages every time. We're all being played.

Edited July 27, 2021 by CaliforniaGirl

[Prudence V]

2 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

He will then explain his idea of having "tried therapy"

…and a venue to practice those legendary debating skills, apparently. 

[SumGuy]

8 hours ago, elaine567 said:

...Most quickly learn where they stand in that pecking order and set their sights accordingly.
..

Although I agree with your conclusions, and do believe this could well apply to those ZADater hangs around and is trying to date...

I strongly disagree that most think this way, or perhaps more accurately there is a sizable minority who does not...me and the social circles and culture/sub-culture have gravitated to and been parts of my entire life.  Now I have know a fair number of people who do think this way...to me that is part and parcel of a transactional/materialistic status/hierarchical focused mind set.

None the less your advice is good for ZADater...in my view he is so far out in the transactional ocean he can't see the shore and way in over his head if that is the pond he is fishing in.  In that pond these are the ways people think in my view.

[SumGuy]

7 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Is that not the approach these guys take too, only with a bit more excitement, fun, pizzazz and sexiness thrown in?
SOME women will fall for players and get hurt, SOME women will take what a player has to offer and enjoy the fling...
SOME women may break his heart...
There is no black and white.
"Women" want this, "women" don't want that,,,  is nonsense, it is about time you realised that.
The women who would be wowed by your approach are not the women who frequent the easy come, easy go, player world.

+1 as there is no love reaction button  

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, Prudence V said:

But ZAD expressly said he was interested in white women (quoted above)

To me this could just be an attraction thing. He also won’t date a woman that’s overweight but I don’t think he’s a “fatist” necessarily. Tall, slim, white, in good shape, young, with a pretty face. Pretty much what the media portrays to be the most desirable. And due to his lack of experience, he’s likely to be way more swayed by media images of “ideal” than most. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Weezy1973

[ZA Dater]

Alright, firstly thanks to all those who have taken time to chime in with advice and suggestions not to mention points of view derived from experiences I have not had. It is appreciated.

I think I have a pretty good idea now as to what "options" I have. 

1: Lower my standards to what "might" be possible

2: Throw away all my associates who wrongly do transaction dating

3: Become a player myself, goes against most of what I believe in

4: Find the apparent grey area where all these people who want relationships seem to be, wherever that might be

5: Waste money on therapy where I derive no real gains at all.

6: Accept that while I can enjoy some great experiences in other areas of life dating will not be one of those areas

7: Just enjoy what I enjoy be forget about the things I wont get to experience

8: Try make myself stand out in some way or other, no idea how or if I really want to do this, being anonymous is actually quite nice most of the time.

9: Delete all dating apps, might be a nice idea then I can live completely in my own imagined dating world.

The reality is I am always going to want what I want, the difference I guess is I am simply not prepared to settle for anything less than what I want, if I have to then there is actually no point at all the idea to me has zero value. Every single person around me is either a transactor in terms of this forum or frankly miserable in the relationship they have, hardly a fantastic situation in itself. I am quite alright being called unattractive, the stats do not lie, if I were attractive I'd have been able to attract and attractive person, that is the simple truth. 

After reading all of this, honestly I am not particularly convinced doing anything else being anyone else will give me any different result, I am always seen the the hopeless project by most anyway but I can look to improve what I have which I have been doing. I pretty much want the same things most guys do, the difference is I remove all the emotion out of it, I'd rather wait to have sex with someone I really like than either pay or simply try do the whole charm offensive on someone on OLD who does like me enough to sleep with me. 

The truth of the matter you all have had experiences you really liked, I have had experiences I liked to, different ones mind but I liked them nonetheless, do I wish I could have had more of what you all did, sure but not if the means I need to commit myself to league dating. Some keep saying I shy away from intimacy and I DO because each and every time its been offered those offering it were people I did not find attractive in that way, yes good people to chat to, good people to share ideas with but just like A and K do not see me that way I do not see those people that way either. I fail to see what is so wrong with this.

Anyway what all these comments have pretty much proven is what is being advocated would offer me absolutely no value whatsoever, it would not fit into my life and would compliment nothing in my life either. So in some respects you all did me a favour and convinced me that what I MIGHT be able to get in my apparent league is even further away from what I want. 

Prudence and Jspice, sorry for perhaps going a bit over the top. Others, thanks for your support and advice. As with many things in life, what we like and what we can get are seemingly worlds apart and while I can live with a meal I do not feel particularly enticed to eat I simply cannot live with the thought I could have done better and the person sitting next to me is not really what I want. Its not fair to them. I'll pay an ultimately hefty price for this but arguably I have been paying it for the best part of 20 years already.

[5x5]

You spin me right 'round, baby
Right 'round like a record, baby

Right 'round, 'round, 'round
You spin me right 'round, baby
Right 'round like a record, baby
Right 'round, 'round, 'round

@ZA Dater do you think you will ever get tired of spinning around in circles to no end?

[Prudence V]

19 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Waste money on therapy where I derive no real gains at all.

Or, approach counselling as an opportunity to learn and grow, rather than a platform to perform your debating skills, and discover that it’s the best investment you could have made. 
 

Your choice. 

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Or, approach counselling as an opportunity to learn and grow, rather than a platform to perform your debating skills, and discover that it’s the best investment you could have made. 
 

Your choice. 

No thanks. I'll pass, invested enough in this in the past with zero return of any sort. No amount of investment in this will make me attractive to the person on the other side of the room. What most of you have done is help me immeasurably to convince me dating really is not worth it, at least the dating I am told is available to me. 

Maybe in another life I'll get to experience how apparently good it could be because what is being suggested has less than zero appeal to me.