Catfish

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Foxhall said:

 you are overthinking and analysing everything,

why would you not say that- It is instinctive and it is better sometimes to operate on instinct- especially with dating,

Clearly you are highly sensitive and worry too much- what does it matter if you look foolish or get rejected once more- who cares really

that sensitivity could be appealing to some women though all the same ( this guy is caring and could make good father etc)

Your huge problem it seems is progressing from talking to a woman to having any form of spark or romantic interest emerging,

I think if you let go in the sense of sharing your hopes and dreams- sharing what makes you tick- who you are as such,

women love all that type of thing- at the moment you are too sensitive to being judged and it is holding you back,

Its not easy-  coffee first dates can be edgy and it can be difficult to relax,  I would suggest beach/nature walks or something as part of the date and try to get a more relaxed vibe,

if you are doing well- you may be lucky in the sense of the woman will initiate some romantic spark-

sharing your soul and hope the woman falls for you.

I liked that thought you had on a previous thread of approaching women cold in coffee shops and hitting on them, (liberating you)

though it is better to build up some type of rapport first, well as you are doing in the situation here

be brave buddy ask her out soon. 

Spilling ones life, hopes and dreams just makes that kick to the face when the inevitable rejection comes far, far worse. If I share little I have really not opened myself up at all, the rejection just becomes like a business meeting and life goes on. Why am I sensitive to this because I did what many encouraged me to do and really looked around at people who did seem to get it right and in myself I simply do not see that ability to get it right. it is SO hard to find any degree of confidence at all to actually even try.

I get judged which is fine but conversely the less I put out there the less I get judged, to me nothing about me is really that remarkable, the things I enjoy in life are things most cannot relate to much less have an interest in. Here is a good example, I once met someone I did like, we chatted and she mentioned she had never been to a certain area, a place I go to often, I suggested we perhaps go there for lunch, the rest of the date was to me good, well needless to say ghosted and nothing happened. 

Perhaps something I should not admit here but for the sake of everyone else having a laugh I will. The cold fact is when I try and date I often think to myself  "You actually do not know what you are doing" and that is the truth.

When I have sat there and sold my soul its never really ever worked.

Its far easier to convince myself this is a bad idea than convince myself it is a good idea.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

The people that are interested in you, you’re not attracted to, and the women you’re attracted to, you refuse to ask out on a date. So yes, keep doing what you’ve always done and you’ll continue to enjoy the same success (I.e. none). 

Its very easy to states this but it ignores the fact that there is no success ever so its all really the same, a collection of efforts some with slightly better moments but the same outcome and many with moments I'd prefer to forget. 

In a perfect world I'd just pluck some confidence out of the sky and well.

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its very easy to states this but it ignores the fact that there is no success ever so its all really the same, a collection of efforts some with slightly better moments but the same outcome and many with moments I'd prefer to forget. 

In a perfect world I'd just pluck some confidence out of the sky and well.

Not including online dating, you’ve only asked out one woman on an actual date since you’ve been posting here as far as I can tell. And that was “K”. And even that was sort of ambiguous as to whether or not it was a date. So when you say “no success” it’s entirely because you’ve made close to zero attempts. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. 

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Not including online dating, you’ve only asked out one woman on an actual date since you’ve been posting here as far as I can tell. And that was “K”. And even that was sort of ambiguous as to whether or not it was a date. So when you say “no success” it’s entirely because you’ve made close to zero attempts. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. 

I only use OLD because frankly I have no idea how to ask people out. When I have, well its been a swift kick to the face. I had a few goes at it before K all of them ending exactly the same, the only way I actually got one date with K was to get some help from a mutual friend. 

Maybe its easy to go on so many dates they just become monotonously irrelevant to life itself. The problem really is this, I'll probably say something like "hey its been a long week, hopefully you get some down time on the weekend" which to me is very subtly asking about her life away from work but then I sit back and think to myself "alright she agrees to go on a date, then what?" The problem is I have no game or strategy there so I resort to what I do know and that is some pretty mild small talk but that only keeps me interested for so long. You are right though because I never see the benefit really because A apart I never really connect with people to the extent I really want to spend an extended amount of time with them.

A good example of the reverse of this, someone I end up chatting to online and have a great conversation, she then wants to escalate things but I simply do not find her attractive in that way, for me it seems its one or the other but never both.

I sit here and ask myself if its worth it and most of me simply says it is not, its very difficult to reverse this because in truth I live such a busy life where if I am not working I am thinking of work and when I am not doing that I am reading, its difficult to fit anyone into that sort of life so while I'd love to actually be loved by someone I have sort of conceded I'll never be loved for who I am but rather for what inherent advantage people can get from me. 

What do I really want, I'd like to wake up next to someone for once, do things, have dinners, share things but maybe this is just asking too much, I can get some of that by putting my morals in my pocket and just paying someone to spend time with me but it would not be the same but maybe I am just really unsuitable as a person to date by the people I find interesting and attractive.

These questions never become clearer but my level of acceptance is increasing.

 

[Foxhall]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

"You actually do not know what you are doing" and that is the truth.

Yes many of us have been there I am sure,

Its  just difficult for you to meet that right lady that you will naturally gel with,

surely she is there for you somewhere however

ah wel no panic go with flow- ur not 40 yet all ahead of you.

 

[basil67]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The former not the latter. I guess what has struck me is the difference in the interactions with me versus other customers, she is inherently quite shy I think but I have had a few conversations primarily because I make an effort to engage. 

What makes you think she's shy?   It's quite possible that she simply has no interest in engaging with customers and is responding to you out of politeness. 

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, basil67 said:

What makes you think she's shy?   It's quite possible that she simply has no interest in engaging with customers and is responding to you out of politeness. 

Probably true, just case of same old same old I suppose. I did manage to find out she has one day off a week.

All this interaction makes me realize is that cold interactions really do not work too well for many people either.

[basil67]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

A good example of the reverse of this, someone I end up chatting to online and have a great conversation, she then wants to escalate things but I simply do not find her attractive in that way, for me it seems its one or the other but never both.

Do you recognise that your complaints about how nobody ever gives you a chance are completely and utterly false?  You keep up with this premise that you're unwanted by everybody.....and that people only want you for convenience..... and then periodically throw into the mix that women have indeed been interested but you reject them.

How can you expect your complaints to be taken seriously?

 

21 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Spilling ones life, hopes and dreams just makes that kick to the face when the inevitable rejection comes far, far worse. If I share little I have really not opened myself up at all, the rejection just becomes like a business meeting and life goes on.

Enough with the pity party.  It sounds like you reject enough women to equal out the number of women who reject you.  

 

21 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

to me nothing about me is really that remarkable

Welcome to being human.  99.9% of us aren't remarkable in any way whatsoever.

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Do you recognise that your complaints about how nobody ever gives you a chance are completely and utterly false?  You keep up with this premise that you're unwanted by everybody.....and that people only want you for convenience..... and then periodically throw into the mix that women have indeed been interested but you reject them.

How can you expect your complaints to be taken seriously?

 

Enough with the pity party.  It sounds like you reject enough women to equal out the number of women who reject you.  

 

Welcome to being human.  99.9% of us aren't remarkable in any way whatsoever.

Ok so I am not entitled to reject them?

Simply put I am unwanted by anyone I find vaguely attractive, if people I do not find attractive like me its totally irrelevant. You wont date someone you find unattractive, why should I?

 

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok so I am not entitled to reject them?

Simply put I am unwanted by anyone I find vaguely attractive, if people I do not find attractive like me its totally irrelevant. You wont date someone you find unattractive, why should I?

 

Oh, you're entitled to reject them. But you are NOT entitled to pretend that they didn't exist in order to garner sympathy. 

And you seem to forget how I've repeatedly told you that when I was dating, I was always attracted to who a person is, not what they look like.  So don't you dare go comparing yourself and your shallow standards to me. 

[elaine567]

He is "romance" avoidant.
If he finds her attractive AND enjoys her company, he then is obliged to take things to the next level.
He knows he is incapable of taking things to the next level, so he always ducks out, citing some reason as to why it is impossible...
IF this barista accepted his offer of a date, he hasn't a clue what to then do with her, apart from make some platonic friend noises.

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

He is "romance" avoidant.
If he finds her attractive AND enjoys her company, he then is obliged to take things to the next level.
He knows he is incapable of taking things to the next level, so he always ducks out, citing some reason as to why it is impossible...
IF this barista accepted his offer of a date, he hasn't a clue what to then do with her, apart from make some platonic friend noises.

Exactly true.

[Weezy1973]

45 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Exactly true.

So how does one get over this type of mental block? Hmmmm….

[ZA Dater]

47 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

So how does one get over this type of mental block? Hmmmm….

Well I think maybe some success might actually help a opposed to being kicked in he face time and time again but yeah I get it, people have loads of choice and logic will always say I am at the bottom of the list for most people I seem to end up liking. Never do I ever get the sense the other person is actually doing anything to really make me like them, never ever has this been the case. 

You have touched on it before being the self fulfilling prophecy and I agree with that but its also the reality, I take someone on a date and than what? Its not like many of them ever actually show any interest, it me who is expected to try take things to the next level but logic just kicks in, especially after every time I do try it just goes exactly the same way. SO yes I will have random conversation with this lady but the truth is when I sit there I am not getting any different levels of conversation to others who engage with her so yeah this is just a big dead end, much like all the others have been.

Nobody I want wants me, that is the bottom line so this makes is very easy for me to just work all the time and have pretty much no social life. The more social life I have the more I stick up as this abnormal person. 

[Fox Sake]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

Nobody I want wants me, that is the bottom line so this makes is very easy for me to just work all the time and have pretty much no social life. The more social life I have the more I stick up as this abnormal person. 

I hear ya man…. You’re not alone. While I could relate to some of what you were saying this was the standout

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well I think maybe some success might actually help a opposed to being kicked in he face time and time again

You’ve barely asked out anybody so calling it “time and time again” is disingenuous. Also, just because someone isn’t interested in you doesn’t equal being “kicked in the face”. But if you’re experiencing disinterest as extreme as being kicked in the face, you guessed it, time for therapy. 

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’ve barely asked out anybody so calling it “time and time again” is disingenuous. Also, just because someone isn’t interested in you doesn’t equal being “kicked in the face”. But if you’re experiencing disinterest as extreme as being kicked in the face, you guessed it, time for therapy. 

Metaphorically..

Elaine is fundamentally right though, what do I actually do with the person if I eventually... unlikely to happen find some sort of mutual attraction. It will all just fall apart when she realises this dude has no dating experience. So like Elaine mentioned I do tend to go the friend route because I am just relatively speaking better.

So yea I do to some extent look at dating the same way I look at shopping for clothes, people that make me feel good are the ones I prefer. I'd feel pretty good spending time with this pretty waitress for example and yes this is the true definition of shallow but it's my preference. Everyone around me places an absolute premium on looks and it seems to work for them...well until the point they advise me to do after unattractive people because well those people are good enough for me.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Everyone around me places an absolute premium on looks and it seems to work for them...well until the point they advise me to do after unattractive people because well those people are good enough for me.

So stop asking their advice

Edited August 28, 2021 by basil67

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd feel pretty good spending time with this pretty waitress for example and yes this is the true definition of shallow but it's my preference.

Why do you feel good spending time with the waitress when there's no reason to believe that she has interest in you?  I mean, she doesn't even remember your order.

Serious question.  Why does spending time with a pretty girl who's being polite because it's her job make you feel better than an average woman who finds you interesting? 

[bene]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Everyone around me places an absolute premium on looks and it seems to work for them

Who is everyone? Your player business associates who brag about their one night stands and whom you despise and admire at the same time? 

[bene]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

yea I do to some extent look at dating the same way I look at shopping for clothes, people that make me feel good are the ones I prefer.

Interesting analogy, I don’t necessarily feel best in my flashiest clothes. They may look great but in fact I often can’t wait to get out of them. It’s often the trusted good quality basic items that make you feel good, not the most extravagant ones. Could the same analogy apply to people?

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

Why do you feel good spending time with the waitress when there's no reason to believe that she has interest in you?  I mean, she doesn't even remember your order.

Serious question.  Why does spending time with a pretty girl who's being polite because it's her job make you feel better than an average woman who finds you interesting? 

Mostly because one is attractive to me and the other is not.  I look at it like this, someone might be interested in me but if I am not interested in her then the interest is irrelevant. Its really about perspective and this is going to be difficult to explain, lets use A as example, incredibly pretty but warm, friendly and just nice. Would I have found her as attractive if she was only warm and friendly and had no physical attraction, very unlikely. I'll get cooked alive for saying that but its the truth. I like millions of other men on this planet love the attention of an attractive lady and perhaps there are some ladies who love the attention of an attractive guy.....

I get rejected based on not being attractive and that is FINE because I do the same thing, granted though I never get accepted by anyone I find attractive whereas I think most people would admit that have had some success, I have sat around tables with guys and heard them make excuses as to why they are going out with so and so and that holds no attraction for me.

Mostly when I see this petite blond that 5 min of banter just makes the day better, its small talk and irrelevant but I am for 5 minutes getting attention from someone I do find attractive and unfortunately for me 5 minutes of that is better than 5 hours of attention from someone I really have no interest in at all. 

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, bene said:

Who is everyone? Your player business associates who brag about their one night stands and whom you despise and admire at the same time? 

It works very well for them so while I morally could not do it, I will admit there is some appeal to actually finding mutual attraction, which they do often and seemingly quite easily too. Seemingly I sit with scenarios which never really work because there is always something fundamentally wrong from the outset. 

Mostly I think we all want to be wanted by someone we want, that is to me what the basis of it all is. Our perspectives differ but that I think is the same for everyone.

[elaine567]

Nobody out dating gets a free choice of everyone they want.
Yes there are "leagues" but there are also "types"...
"He is good looking but he is not my type..."
There is also "personality".
He is good looking and he is my type of guy, but he is no fun/too serious/a bit of an idiot/too extrovert/too introverted/too boring/too adventurous/too macho/too... etc. etc.
You and everyone else needs to jump through hoops in order for there be interest  generated.
Just "being" is not usually good enough.

The difference between you and most is that most KNOW who they can attract and do not waste time on those who they have no hope with.
Your player friends are very successful as they know the type of woman who will swallow their BS, they may take on "challenges" but only challenges they know they have a fair chance of winning.
You on the other hand take on "challenges" that you have no chance of winning and refuse to accept your place in the dating stakes.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Nobody out dating gets a free choice of everyone they want.
Yes there are "leagues" but there are also "types"...
"He is good looking but he is not my type..."
There is also "personality".
He is good looking and he is my type of guy, but he is no fun/too serious/a bit of an idiot/too extrovert/too introverted/too boring/too adventurous/too macho/too... etc. etc.
You and everyone else needs to jump through hoops in order for there be interest  generated.
Just "being" is not usually good enough.

The difference between you and most is that most KNOW who they can attract and do not waste time on those who they have no hope with.
Your player friends are very successful as they know the type of woman who will swallow their BS, they may take on "challenges" but only challenges they know they have a fair chance of winning.
You on the other hand take on "challenges" that you have no chance of winning and refuse to accept your place in the dating stakes.

Well it was a good call on the waitress, seems there is a BF so at least my radar was not too wrong on this one. No real loss, I go in there, throw some banter around, she laughs, seems to smile and I go about my day like any other day. She is really nice though and every so often I wish I was an attractive person!!

I disagree these guys jump through no hoops whatsoever and there are a seemingly endless number of ladies who are more than happy with these short term "relationships" because its really at the core just transactional really. 

No I like what I find attractive, its just unfortunate I will probably never find any sort of mutual attraction.