Catfish

[ZA Dater]

20 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Moaning about your lack of experience is nonsense and no woman will put up with that, you are 37 NOT 17.

I do not need to say it they can see I am useless at dating. Everyone can see that.

[elaine567]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

I do not need to say it they can see I am useless at dating. Everyone can see that.

Can  they really?
I doubt it, unless YOU are making it very obvious.

[elaine567]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

ts ALWAYS me having to sell, sell, sell and sell some more and absolutely zero return on this selling. 

I cant be bothered to even try sell and impress anymore because for what, maybe I need to actually see how much interest they show and just match that level of interest.

Maybe it is time to stop selling yourself and just relax and "be".
 

[ZA Dater]

22 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Well I am afraid that is where you are at.
These attractive women feel the same way about you, as you feel about the women who ARE attracted to you. 
"NO interest... absolutely NONE, less than ZERO."
That is why they show you no interest and do not try to impress you on the date.
They couldn't care less if you like them or not as they plan to be out of there asap.

Then to compound it all you shoot yourself in the foot with your "Oh poor me, virgin tales..."
So even if there was some interest then it will disappear rapidly upon learning of your sorry tales of woe...
You would need to look like a film star in order to pull that one off.

Moaning about your lack of experience is nonsense and no woman will put up with that, you are 37 NOT 17.

Even the ones who are apparently interested do nothing to really try impress me. I do not moan about it, I just state it up front, nothing to moan about it, it is what it is. FYI most of these matches never actually translate into actual dates. 

Then flip the coin over to this waitress where I actually did put some effort in, for what purpose I really have no idea, I looked past the "well this not likely to work" and guess what I was not really surprised. 

The one consolation I have that what I experience is not unique, millions experience the same thing, millions find nobody and for me that is completely at odds with the general view of utopia projected here. Furthermore I look at some of the people who apparently like my profile and "aspirational dating" are the two new words. Me, I believe I can attract what I like, if did not believe this I would have gone and paid and be done with it long ago, I hang onto an idea which I think I might find. Stupidity, ignorance, both, who knows!

 

[ZA Dater]

20 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Can  they really?
I doubt it, unless YOU are making it very obvious.

Odd that a few have told me point blank exactly that. I went out with a very nice horse riding instructor and despite putting my best foot forward I got told "well you lack experience, you need to gain experience" and I have had similar comments passed over the years.

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Maybe it is time to stop selling yourself and just relax and "be".
 

Easier said than done! When I do that the results are even worse, you wont agree but the good non dating interactions I have had do give me some sort of comfort. One of the few compliments I get is "gentleman", part of me wonder is this is because I mostly even try charm them, which is probably why these supposedly "top tier" as you call them women are ok around me because they can see I have no game, I am convinced that is the reason I had such a pleasant experience with A and probably K too as well with a few others.

Its becomes pretty dire to do everything on my own all the time and becomes worse when everyone else in the group has a partner.

 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 Then flip the coin over to this waitress where I actually did put some effort in, for what purpose I really have no idea, I looked past the "well this not likely to work" and guess what I was not really surprised. 

What effort exactly? As far as I can tell all you did was chat with her while you were waiting for your order at the coffee shop. 

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Friend goes to the same place and well, he gets completely different treatment.

OK so what do you think he does differently to you?

[ZA Dater]

22 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

OK so what do you think he does differently to you?

Better looking, more funny, more confident.

Edited September 3, 2021 by ZA Dater

[ZA Dater]

33 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

What effort exactly? As far as I can tell all you did was chat with her while you were waiting for your order at the coffee shop. 

I actually took your advice and tried to engage in some light hearted conversation, I actually tried to display positive confident body language. There proved to a finite limit to how much of this she was prepared to engage in and that limit was reached quite quickly.

 

[mark clemson]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 miss catfish would actually greet me without me having to initiate conversation, there is a drastic difference there.

Indeed and yes, this makes sense. Perhaps the logical course would be to keep catfishing until you finally "catch" one who actually appeals to you. Seems like a better approach that stroking the egos of "unattainable" women online only to be dropped after a while.

Everything seems difficult for you in this arena, but "catfishing" a woman and meeting might actually be your best option (in your case) in terms of eventually finding an acceptable one. At that point the trick would be to not be off-putting to her by bashing yourself/your history overmuch etc, as others above have mentioned or via other "negativity". I think it's no doubt easier said than done, but MIGHT be doable in your case if you eventually "catfish" the right girl who you actually find appealing, dunno.

Edited September 3, 2021 by mark clemson

[elaine567]

@mark clemsonyou seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. 
ALL the catfish women were appealing to ZA Dater, he had tapped into a quality stream with his fake pics, but not one of them wanted anything more to do with him when he revealed his true identity...
 

[mark clemson]

^^ ah didn't realize the fake pics aspect (it's a long thread).

ZA Dater - maybe try the same stuff but use a "glamor" pic of yourself instead. Being NOT the person shown in the pic I would guess is pretty much a universal deal-breaker. Just pay someone to get a pic OF you that you look really good in without it being TOO obvious that it's a professional pic.

Also wear a sport jacket or something similarly dressy and make sure your haircut is nice, etc when you meet in person.

The world is NOT fair, people tend to be "biologically programmed" in certain ways, and thus looks matter. C'est la vie. However society provides "workarounds" such as nice clothing and makeup for those inclined to use them. As a guy I think you can focus primarily on clothes and facial grooming.

Edited September 3, 2021 by mark clemson

[ZA Dater]

49 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

@mark clemsonyou seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. 
ALL the catfish women were appealing to ZA Dater, he had tapped into a quality stream with his fake pics, but not one of them wanted anything more to do with him when he revealed his true identity...
 

Which just backed up a point of view shared by very few that ultimately looks matter the most for many people.

The bigger joke was I was complimented on personality and how interesting I was...clearly not interesting enough to make up for a lack of looks. I do not regret doing this because the true color of this game became apparent and the "well you know if she is not attractive she could be over time" does not apply to women when they are looking for guys but well guys must be happy with whoever deems them worth of attention.

[ZA Dater]

50 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

^^ ah didn't realize the fake pics aspect (it's a long thread).

ZA Dater - maybe try the same stuff but use a "glamor" pic of yourself instead. Being NOT the person shown in the pic I would guess is pretty much a universal deal-breaker. Just pay someone to get a pic OF you that you look really good in without it being TOO obvious that it's a professional pic.

Also wear a sport jacket or something similarly dressy and make sure your haircut is nice, etc when you meet in person.

The world is NOT fair, people tend to be "biologically programmed" in certain ways, and thus looks matter. C'est la vie. However society provides "workarounds" such as nice clothing and makeup for those inclined to use them. As a guy I think you can focus primarily on clothes and facial grooming.

I did resort to these sort of pics which did not seem to make much difference, neither did these sort of pics with me doing something I really enjoy doing. Sure, I am not going to date someone from Milan fashion week but I also refuse to date someone is for want of a better word is not "active". Unfortunately the latter seem to aspire to date me.

Good point on appearance but when I go on dates and the other person has made no attempt to look good, in one instance I am convinced she turned up wearing PJs I start to wonder. I will be honest and say 99.9% of people I have met up were of no interest to me but I met them anyway in the hope they might be better or have some attractive quality in person, its not like I have spent years actually going on dates with people who I from the outset were not viable people to date, I have always gone with the view of well lets see what happens.

There were a few exceptions where I did enjoy their company and where I think things did go ok but ghosting well told me it was not so ok as I thought.

My consolation I guess is in some other aspects of life I have met people who really did impress me, I get to live my passion most days, get to enjoy things which many people would love to experience, interact with people who teach me a lot and my point of view is perhaps a bit different because of all of this. I still maintain the most physically attractive people I have met have all been the most friendly and actually give me more of the attention I like, they wont date me but there are the nicest to me. There is a confidence to them, an assuredness that I really find very attractive. 

Its really about perspective and sometimes I wish I had not met these people because maybe it would be easier to accept the people who match with me on OLD but when I compare sitting at dinner with someone who really puts in very little effort or is desperate to take me home or in one case desperate to make me food and all sorts of other odd ideas such as expecting me to buy their shopping, none of these is very appealing compared to walking with someone I find attractive and who gives me her full attention, asks about me, is capable of having deep conversation about life and the good and not so good things. Or having someone take me aside, share something of themselves, their own struggles, show some empathy toward me. 

[poppyfields]

@ZA Datermay I be blunt?  Your overall energy and how you present yourself, not only here but I would venture to guess on line and IRL is REALLY bad.

I think it was @elaine567who posted to stop trying to sell yourself and just "be."   Relax.  Within yourself.

I interpret that to mean you need a purpose outside of trying to pull women or sell yourself to women or become more attractive to women or whatever you're trying to do.  A higher purpose in life that has NOTHING to do with women!

What's your passion?  What drives you?  If you don't have one, find one.   FIND YOUR PURPOSE.   Focus on YOU.  Love yourself FIRST. 

Find your calling in life, you are placing too much focus on attracting women, it's getting you absolutely nowhere, you are trying too hard, you come off needy and insecure and it's turning women OFF.

Do you work out?  If not, please do so.  Work out for YOU.  Become the best you can be, strive for Brad Pitt in Fight Club or something like that, FOR YOU.  Not to attract women, that should be secondary.  

Working out also increases testosterone and from reading your posts, and no disrespect I promise, that is sorely lacking.  No wonder no women find you appealing.

Once you begin focusing on YOU, stop trying so hard and selling yourself, loving yourself FIRST and achieving your true purpose in life (no matter what that may be), the women will gravitate towards you naturally and organically, you won't have to do a damn thing, but EXIST next to them.

>>Friend goes to the same place and well, he gets completely different treatment.

What I just suggested is most likely why your friend attracts women and you don't.  Women can sense that type of energy and naturally gravitate towards him.

It's not going to happen overnight, it will take time.

But TBH, this is all getting a bit ridiculous, this thread is now 35 pages and it's merely going in circles, nothing is any different from page one!

Time for a change, a BIG change.

All the best.

 

 

 

[salparadise]

23 hours ago, poppyfields said:

I think it was @elaine567who posted to stop trying to sell yourself and just "be."   Relax.  Within yourself.

I agree with this. On one hand he's trying too hard to sell, and on the other he's sabotaging by being blatantly forthcoming about inexperience. It's almost as if he's doing the opposite of what works because this rejected, inexperienced, undesirable persona is a safer place... and actually turning it around would be the scariest thing in the world. What would happen if one of them invited you back to her place right now, with the obvious intention to bang you senseless? I bet you'd shyte your britches. I know it's hard and having integrated the expectation to fail makes it even worse. You have to reverse that and expect to succeed.

I suspect you are choosing women that you have no chance with. Women are an inherently tough crowd, and they never-ever do charity. If you're rejecting average gals for self-proclaimed hotties, it's an automatic fail, because they coined the term transactional, wherein they get all they deserve and more.  You have to date women who have the ability to see you as an equally valuable human being and are willing to meet you half way. Then you relate by being yourself, relaxed, confident, and not appearing desperate. You do not have "zero experience" stamped on your forehead. If they ask, say "not recently" as opposed to "I'm a virgin and never had a girlfriend." I honestly believe that you are subconsciously sabotaging because it feels safer to be on the sidelines. If I were you, the first thing I'd do is throw away the V-card, whatever that takes, and then go find someone fun to date. You have to knock down barriers, most of which are psychological devices designed to keep you within your comfort zone, even if that means settling for the opposite of what you actually want and need.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by salparadise

[ZA Dater]

22 hours ago, poppyfields said:

@ZA Datermay I be blunt?  Your overall energy and how you present yourself, not only here but I would venture to guess on line and IRL is REALLY bad.

I think it was @elaine567who posted to stop trying to sell yourself and just "be."   Relax.  Within yourself.

I interpret that to mean you need a purpose outside of trying to pull women or sell yourself to women or become more attractive to women or whatever you're trying to do.  A higher purpose in life that has NOTHING to do with women!

What's your passion?  What drives you?  If you don't have one, find one.   FIND YOUR PURPOSE.   Focus on YOU.  Love yourself FIRST. 

Find your calling in life, you are placing too much focus on attracting women, it's getting you absolutely nowhere, you are trying too hard, you come off needy and insecure and it's turning women OFF.

Do you work out?  If not, please do so.  Work out for YOU.  Become the best you can be, strive for Brad Pitt in Fight Club or something like that, FOR YOU.  Not to attract women, that should be secondary.  

Working out also increases testosterone and from reading your posts, and no disrespect I promise, that is sorely lacking.  No wonder no women find you appealing.

Once you begin focusing on YOU, stop trying so hard and selling yourself, loving yourself FIRST and achieving your true purpose in life (no matter what that may be), the women will gravitate towards you naturally and organically, you won't have to do a damn thing, but EXIST next to them.

>>Friend goes to the same place and well, he gets completely different treatment.

What I just suggested is most likely why your friend attracts women and you don't.  Women can sense that type of energy and naturally gravitate towards him.

It's not going to happen overnight, it will take time.

But TBH, this is all getting a bit ridiculous, this thread is now 35 pages and it's merely going in circles, nothing is any different from page one!

Time for a change, a BIG change.

All the best.

Sure you can be blunt and I'll be blunt to.

The issue is I spent most of my life working on other things, I sacrificed dating for that, I sacrificed companionship for what I wanted to do. I spent years just "being" and sorry to say I do not think anyone accomplishes anything by "being". Hence the reason I took on OLD as a way to try and move forward.

I am quite OK with who I am, quite clearly its the dating world who has a fundamental problem with me. Its not like I sit moping about being single, it does irritate me to some extent but I would hardly say its the greatest issues I have to deal with on a day to day basis.

Sorry I do not think women will ever gravitate toward me naturally, its quite hard to gravitate toward someone who actually does not do the partying, social thing, again hence the need for OLD in the first place. Do women gravitate toward guys sure they do but in the context I see this it almost never has anything to do with who those guys but rather looks, status related. How do I know this, well because I have tried with those same ladies, tried to even speak to them never mind actually dating them.

Please tell me at what point WOMEN make any EFFORT at dating? I'd love someone to answer this question.....I can count on 1 hand the number of times I date has actually arrived looking attractive or actually made an effort. Why is this. I suppose this is my fault too! 

For what its worth I do work out, I am slim and fairly athletic and have no wish to look like some muscled actor. What is even more astonishing about this suggestion I must work out but when I point out I have no interest in over weight people I get slammed for that. Double standards much? Do I want to sleep with unattractive people, absolutely not, do I know guys who do just to get sex, sure I do, does that appeal to me, absolutely not. I guess I am wrong about this too. 

Its already been pointed women do not like inexperience so I cannot see what time has to do with that, of anything the issue just becomes worse with time. I have passions, women could not give a continental about them in fact in the dating context they generally do not give a continental because there are 100 other matches ready and waiting, each read to trip over their feet in anticipation.  

 

[ZA Dater]

11 minutes ago, salparadise said:

I agree with this. On one hand he's trying too hard to sell, and on the other he's sabotaging by being blatantly forthcoming about inexperience. It's almost as if he's doing the opposite of what works because this rejected, inexperienced, undesirable persona is a safer place... and actually turning it around would be the scariest thing in the world. What would happen if one of them invited you back to her place right now, with the obvious intention to bang you senseless? I bet you'd shyte your britches. I know it's hard and having integrated the expectation to fail makes it even worse. You have to reverse that and expect to succeed.

I suspect you are choosing women that you have no chance with. Women are an inherently tough crowd, and they never-ever do charity. If you're rejecting average gals for self-proclaimed hotties, it's an automatic fail, because they coined the term transactional, wherein they get all they deserve and more.  You have to date women who have the ability to see you as an equally valuable human being and are willing to meet you half way. Then you relate by being yourself, relaxed, confident, and not appearing desperate. You do not have "zero experience" stamped on your forehead. If they ask, say "not recently" as opposed to "I'm a virgin and never had a girlfriend." I honestly believe that you are subconsciously sabotaging because it feels safer to be on the sidelines. If I were you, the first thing I'd do is throw away the V-card, whatever that takes, and then go find someone fun to date. You have to knock down barriers, most of which are psychological devices designed to keep you within your comfort zone, even if that means settling for the opposite of what you actually want and need.

 

Obviously I don't mention I have that little experience but most of them can sense it anyway, probably because I am useless at flirting.

I have actually been invited back before on both occasions the ladies were over weight and very unattractive. That is the fundamental problem I am not dating people I find attractive at all on ANY level. By this I ask myself, would being with this person make my life better and 99.9% of the time the answer is NO, I use that in terms of the personality and how they make me feel, which mostly is nothing at all.

I am rejecting people I have NO interest in at all. The fact of the matter I do not climb on this stupid ladder, I am spent time with extremely attractive ladies and others who really are not attractive, I can have a good conversation with either. I have spent time with people I really, really liked but irrespective what I did they were never into me like that so the best compromise for me was to just go friend zone. Besides sleeping with me, these people all made me feel really good and ALL made me a better person in many ways. 

Do I sabotage, yes I do, especially when I have zero interest in the person, its a good way to get out of having to reject them and rather get myself rejected. I would look to go out of my comfort zone if there was actually mutual attraction but that is something I have never ever had. 

On a lighter note the bold made me laugh, this is true but I have had some be incredibly nice to me so I think there is some charity to be found in a non sexual way/non dating way.

 

[BaileyB]

On 9/3/2021 at 5:19 AM, ZA Dater said:

I have NO interest in those women, absolutely NONE. Less than ZERO. 

 

That’s exactly why you are still single and posting about your dating woes on loveshack. 

If you are not interested in women who are actually interested in you, you are never going to find yourself relationship. 

It’s like trying to get a job as a CEO when you have a high school education. Your expectations are unreasonable, you won’t consider something that suits your education level and ability… you are going to homeless and complaining about how life just isn’t unfair - people don’t see your capabilities and good qualities, they never give you a chance… please. 🙄

I can’t actually believe that you are continuing to belabour this discussion… 

Edited September 4, 2021 by BaileyB

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Do I sabotage, yes I do, especially when I have zero interest in the person, its a good way to get out of having to reject them and rather get myself rejected. I would look to go out of my comfort zone if there was actually mutual attraction but that is something I have never ever had. 

Rejecting women you’re not interested in is not self-sabotage. Self-sabotage is only being interested in women you know you don’t have a chance with. 

[basil67]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:48 PM, ZA Dater said:

Easier said than done! When I do that the results are even worse, you wont agree but the good non dating interactions I have had do give me some sort of comfort. One of the few compliments I get is "gentleman", part of me wonder is this is because I mostly even try charm them, which is probably why these supposedly "top tier" as you call them women are ok around me because they can see I have no game, I am convinced that is the reason I had such a pleasant experience with A and probably K too as well with a few others.

Because you don't try to charm them and have no game, they don't see you as someone who's romantically interested.  Because they think you're not interested, they let their walls down, relax and treat you as a friend rather than as a guy they need to discourage.  Unfortunately, you won't get out of the friendzone. 

On 9/4/2021 at 4:11 AM, ZA Dater said:

The bigger joke was I was complimented on personality and how interesting I was...clearly not interesting enough to make up for a lack of looks. I do not regret doing this because the true color of this game became apparent and the "well you know if she is not attractive she could be over time" does not apply to women when they are looking for guys but well guys must be happy with whoever deems them worth of attention.

If that were true, there would not be loads of women who are single because they won't give a guy a chance because he's not pretty or tall.   

 

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

What is even more astonishing about this suggestion I must work out but when I point out I have no interest in over weight people I get slammed for that. Double standards much? 

A double standard would be the overweight woman being told that she will have no trouble finding a date if she goes out in daggy clothes.  But nobody says that.  In fact, the same guys who tell you to go to the gym would tell this woman that she needs to get fit and put effort into her looks if she wants success.  

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

But nobody says that.  In fact, the same guys who tell you to go to the gym would tell this woman that she needs to get fit and put effort into her looks if she wants success.  

Yup. Women put effort in to attract men. The women you’re attracted to are putting in effort.

[elaine567]

Truth is overweight women in baggy clothes, will find dates, overweight men in baggy clothes, will find dates, as long as they are "normal", friendly and open. "Ugly" women and men find dates every day.
Appearance is usually not the challenge, it is personality and how they relate to others that usually makes some chronically unable to find a date.
ZA Dater could find a good woman tomorrow if he wasn't hung up on dating a "hot" woman... and he made a bit of an effort to "fit in" a bit more... and he conquered his fear of intimacy.
I am all for people being who they are, but when being who they are is causing them big trouble in their lives, then they need to do a long and hard rethink about what they are actually doing to themselves. 
 

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Rejecting women you’re not interested in is not self-sabotage. Self-sabotage is only being interested in women you know you don’t have a chance with. 

In my view I do have a chance with them else I would not be interested to begin with.