Catfish

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, Foxhall said:

n another ten years or so, he can settle for companionship with a plain Jane, but for now dont give up on what he wants.

He is already 37, he is running out of options, since he has hardly ever got past the first date with anyone.
IMO the time for playing around looking for unicorns is way past.
He needs to decide asap if he really wants a lifetime companion or if he wants to keep living alone in a fantasy world.

[SumGuy]

6 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Also aspirational dating is actually the reason that people often struggle with OLD. The phenomenon is best captured by the seemingly ubiquitous sentiment “The people I’m attracted to aren’t interested in me, and the people that are interested in me, I don’t find attractive.”

It’s why attractive women admit they get tons of messages on OLD, but very few from men they’re interested in. And men complain of getting either no matches, or no responses from the messages they send out. 

My view is there are people like that in all aspects of dating (real life and OLD) and life in general; nothing really new.  I've been dating long before the internet...heard the same complaints then, same mentality.  

Some aint' just never satisfied or ability to view their actions objectively...like maybe the reason not finding what I want is I'm filtering for the wrong things, etc., etc., etc. ...  If one adds in a "can't do" attitude, or doubling down on what has failed repeatedly...well maybe better luck in the next life.

[SumGuy]

6 hours ago, elaine567 said:

...and they are fun, sexy, charming and rich.
All in all a very desirable package.

All you really need is ...fun, sexy and charming....and each of those are subjective. (based on expereince when poor and without "status")

Dour, dull and flat...that never does it though. 

[ZA Dater]

16 hours ago, elaine567 said:

He is already 37, he is running out of options, since he has hardly ever got past the first date with anyone.
IMO the time for playing around looking for unicorns is way past.
He needs to decide asap if he really wants a lifetime companion or if he wants to keep living alone in a fantasy world.

Ok so someone I find attractive is a unicorn, mutual attraction is a unicorn....alright.

Its really what one makes of it, me I believe in the idea of dating someone I find attractive, anything less than that has zero appeal. 

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, SumGuy said:

My view is there are people like that in all aspects of dating (real life and OLD) and life in general; nothing really new.  I've been dating long before the internet...heard the same complaints then, same mentality.  

Some aint' just never satisfied or ability to view their actions objectively...like maybe the reason not finding what I want is I'm filtering for the wrong things, etc., etc., etc. ...  If one adds in a "can't do" attitude, or doubling down on what has failed repeatedly...well maybe better luck in the next life.

You right actually and to some degree I believe in this. If nothing else this adds about 10 minutes of sleep. 

Its not even about what has and has not worked, its more about marketing really in my view, convincing someone else we are worthy of their attention and when you think about it like that the entire concept is pretty dense to me. 

You are right people do not generally view things objectively but when you remove ALL emotion from dating what do you really have, actually next to nothing in my opinion. Its probably why I am serially unattractive, I simply do not really buy into the concept of romance nor do I actually know how to be romantic, my upbringing was fairly cold for various reasons I had to adopt the cold objective way of life from a pretty young age.

 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok so someone I find attractive is a unicorn, mutual attraction is a unicorn....alright.

Its really what one makes of it, me I believe in the idea of dating someone I find attractive, anything less than that has zero appeal. 

Women you find attractive are not unicorns, but attractive women who want to date you are.
Have you actually ever found any woman who is considered by you to be attractive, who is also interested in you?
From your posts on here over the years I guess not.
A highly attractive woman who is also interested in you is therefore a unicorn, a mythical creature that only exists in the imagination.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by elaine567
typo

[elaine567]

57 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I simply do not really buy into the concept of romance nor do I actually know how to be romantic, my upbringing was fairly cold for various reasons I had to adopt the cold objective way of life from a pretty young age.

OK so you know what the problem is, so why don't you do something about it?
Life does not revolve around you, you need to be flexible and adapt to get what you want. 
All very well saying you don't buy into romance, but where exactly has that got you? Nowhere, nor will it.
Humans are an intelligent species, we see problems, we find solutions, we change, we adjust, we transform, we adapt to suit the situation.
You refuse to adapt, to change, to see different perspectives, you march steadfastly forward unwavering in your resolve to be who you are and everyone else is wrong...
I have news for you...

[chillii]

Unfortunately l made the mistake of dropping into one of these threads again and saw something that just can't go untouched.

Op , if you simply just do not buy into the concept of romance as you put it, then let it be said , on that one thing alone not even regarding any of your other views, you are officially, screwed ! Or as in your case , unscrewed, forever l'm afraid.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

OK so you know what the problem is, so why don't you do something about it?
Life does not revolve around you, you need to be flexible and adapt to get what you want. 
All very well saying you don't buy into romance, but where exactly has that got you? Nowhere, nor will it.
Humans are an intelligent species, we see problems, we find solutions, we change, we adjust, we transform, we adapt to suit the situation.
You refuse to adapt, to change, to see different perspectives, you march steadfastly forward unwavering in your resolve to be who you are and everyone else is wrong...
I have news for you...

Let draw this picture for you. Kids at school, lets for arguments sake say they all like football, so the one who does not is forced well go along with it because everyone else does. I am not that person, yes I could go and play football but why would I actually want to. Would I get teased and mocked, sure I would, would the kid capitulate and do what everyone else does, sure most would, throughout my life so far I do not go out to conform for the sake of it. I have said before I simply find it amazing that so many people go out and get blind drunk, why do they do it because they like it or because well everyone else does it, I have sat at events and seen people pressured to have another drink, how many so no, not too many. 

Agreed one needs to adapt to some extent but adapting does not mean following blind without any real conviction toward the cause or without any belief. Do I buy into a walk along the beach, a sunset, a nice dinner overlooking the ocean, flowers, gifts, being thoughtful, yes I buy into those things but the proviso is I do not buy into those things if I have no interest in the person and increasingly to me at least dating just seems to be that football argument in the playground, I get it some people have this romantic notion and I'd like to have that too but the reality is so far removed from that to render it largely irrelevant.

I can go chameleon and adapt to what I think people want but guess what I feel worse and my success remains the same.  Perspectives are great and I do defer to those who maybe have experienced some of what I am looking for BUT I really see absolutely no gain in being anyone else but the person I am, albeit the best version of that. I have yet to meet anyone women who actually adapts to me in anyway, instead its me bending over backwards to either impress her or trying to actually generate any interest, why bother with this when none of it is reciprocated. The dates I go on now are a pure waste of time because I know before I go I have zero interest in the person, one asked me on a date to some trendy restaurant, I asked myself why I would want to go, I have a few more conversations and decided I actually could not sit through dinner with this person, before I would have just wasted my time and gone. 

There is no "right" and no apparent "wrong" here. 

Friend and I were discussing dating this week, he dates some of the sorts of people I like and all this does is just affirms that sure it can be really good, he gets lavished with attention which must be quite nice versus the beg and grovel approach I am forced to take but he is never happy.....because he never actually appreciates what he has in front of him at any given time.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Women you find attractive are not unicorns, but attractive women who want to date you are.
Have you actually ever found any woman who is considered by you to be attractive, who is also interested in you?
From your posts on here over the years I guess not.
A highly attractive woman who is also interested in you is therefore a unicorn, a mythical creature that only exists in the imagination.

 

I am fairly particular......so yes they are not very common but that is also because I have pretty much realised I am not really in the game but some of the time I can pretend to be to make myself feel a bit better about not being in the game. It was nice walking around with A and soaking up all the attention, likewise it was nice taking K to events and just enjoying company of someone who did and does call me out when I am not the best version of myself, going on a date with someone who cant connect with me in any way at all, nah I'd rather sit at home eating cake and watching series. 

One of the most amazing dates I ever went on with was an art student, walk into a room with her and every head turned yet the conversation was light, funny and she enjoyed going to any sort of place, it was easy to give her new experiences and I loved every minute with her whether it was at a coffee shop or feeding birds on the beach. That is what keeps me in this game, that feeling of being with someone I really want to spend time with, its a VERY rare feeling because most people simply do not appeal to me.

If I have to spend time with someone for the sake of it, well then I'd rather just be on my own.

[bene]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I simply do not really buy into the concept of romance nor do I actually know how to be romantic, my upbringing was fairly cold for various reasons I had to adopt the cold objective way of life from a pretty young age.

I think we are getting somewhere here. Could you address these issues with a good psychologist? You need some degree of openness to connect with people. It does not mean wearing your heart on your sleeve but people are drawn to warmth and want to feel at ease. This is the vibe people are talking about. 

I know you’ll say that you’ll magically be warm and open when the unicorn lady appears and you can’t be bothered with everyone else but this is putting the cart before the horse. If you repeat what you write here (you will never be enough, nobody will ever want you etc) to yourself year after year then it will show in your interactions with women.

[ZA Dater]

59 minutes ago, bene said:

I think we are getting somewhere here. Could you address these issues with a good psychologist? You need some degree of openness to connect with people. It does not mean wearing your heart on your sleeve but people are drawn to warmth and want to feel at ease. This is the vibe people are talking about. 

I know you’ll say that you’ll magically be warm and open when the unicorn lady appears and you can’t be bothered with everyone else but this is putting the cart before the horse. If you repeat what you write here (you will never be enough, nobody will ever want you etc) to yourself year after year then it will show in your interactions with women.

You are probably right, thing is though, nobody makes much effort to put me at ease so once again its a one way street but I do try and interact positively. Eventually a person who gets rejected over and over simply cannot be bothered, hence this cat fish idea which actually helped to further illustrate how poor my experiences were when suddenly I had people falling over themselves to interact versus me have to work so hard to try and get any sort of interest from anyone remotely attractive.

It would be true to say I do generally find warm people very attractive.

What I refuse to do though is let dating disappointment affect other parts of life, if I have to walk through life alone well then its something I will need to condition myself to do.

[Easter Bunny]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have yet to meet anyone women who actually adapts to me in anyway, instead its me bending over backwards to either impress her or trying to actually generate any interest, why bother with this when none of it is reciprocated.

this is one of the main reasons why you are failing. you don't need to sell yourself. this is a common pitfall for many men where the woman will lose interest in them because of just this. it makes you look desperate, and it puts her on a pedestal. if you treat a woman like a queen she will treat you like a serf. you really need to work on your sense of self worth and self image. you are looking at women like they are the prize. they are not; you are the prize. when you have this attitude and sense of self worth your game and success rate will change. she should be qualifying herself to you not the other way around. 

this is also not saying to be someone you are not. it is saying learn to love your true self and respect your true self. when you do others will as well. 

[chillii]

That ones also all been explained to him 100 times too but , his views are his views and when nothing changes, nothing changes !

[Dis]

On 5/6/2021 at 12:49 PM, ZA Dater said:

 Because I have no friends really, associates yea, friend's no.

I want it because I have had one great experience so I know how good it can be. Life just feels more complete.

I know this post was pages back but I wanted to mention a couple of things

 

You were explaining to people why you wanted a partner. I don't know why that question was even asked. Partnership is a big part of life. It's need that can't be fulfilled from any other source, not friends, not family. It's unique and soul quenching and heart filling. If we didn't need it in life why are most people, by a certain age, partnered up throughout history? Why is marriage so common? 

 

I don't know if anyone has seen a movie called, "Into the Wild" It was based on a novel. But anyway, it's a true story about a young guy who travels off into the wilderness to be alone and to find himself. As he was dying, he wrote a quote, it was something along the lines of, "Life is meant to be shared." Sounds so simple but what is life if we don't have a partner by our sides? I can see a lot of coupled up people arguing this and how they're independent and yada yada. But once you reach a certain age and you keep striking out and going to sleep alone, it's THEN that you learn to appreciate how important it is to have someone. Why? Because you don't have someone...you don't take it for granted. 

 

ZA, no need to defend why you want a partner or what that means to you and no need to attempt to feel like you'd be whole without one. Because the truth is, most people aren't when they can't seem to find someone. Yes, we do our best to be happy and to develop well rounded lives but that one significant piece is still missing no matter how much people like to deny not wanting/needing someone to be with. We're hard wired as a species to couple up and IMO, it's for a reason...it's to meet our needs as humans. Life is lonely alone after you've done it for so long.  

Edited October 9, 2021 by Dis

[Weezy1973]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:10 AM, ZA Dater said:

Its really what one makes of it, me I believe in the idea of dating someone I find attractive, anything less than that has zero appeal. 

And you also acknowledge that the women you’re attracted to will never find you attractive as there’s always a “Chad” just around the corner.

 

You’ve successfully created a world for yourself where you will never date successfully, have a relationship, find love etc. and therefore you can’t get hurt. Besides the pain of loneliness of course.

[BaileyB]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:10 AM, ZA Dater said:

Ok so someone I find attractive is a unicorn, mutual attraction is a unicorn....alright.

Its really what one makes of it, me I believe in the idea of dating someone I find attractive, anything less than that has zero appeal. 

Are you still belabouring the same old argument. 

Nobody in any of your discussions has ever told you to date someone you find unattractive. This is a bizarre construct you have created where the choices are - date someone you find unattractive, or continue to search for some kind of dream/fantasy woman… As has been said so many times, there is a whole world or middle ground that you fail to acknowledge. 

You have absolutely created a world in which you will never be able to date successfully. And for that reason, I don’t understand what your purpose here is at this point…

[Weezy1973]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:51 AM, ZA Dater said:

Let draw this picture for you. Kids at school, lets for arguments sake say they all like football, so the one who does not is forced well go along with it because everyone else does. I am not that person, yes I could go and play football but why would I actually want to.

In this analogy does football = a romantic relationship?

[Weezy1973]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:00 AM, ZA Dater said:

It was nice walking around with A and soaking up all the attention...

One of the most amazing dates I ever went on with was an art student, walk into a room with her and every head turned...

Why does this matter to you?

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Why does this matter to you?

Because it was very nice, far nicer that sitting at a dinner trying to find reasons to find the person attractive.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Are you still belabouring the same old argument. 

Nobody in any of your discussions has ever told you to date someone you find unattractive. This is a bizarre construct you have created where the choices are - date someone you find unattractive, or continue to search for some kind of dream/fantasy woman… As has been said so many times, there is a whole world or middle ground that you fail to acknowledge. 

You have absolutely created a world in which you will never be able to date successfully. And for that reason, I don’t understand what your purpose here is at this point…

For me, despite my best efforts that middle ground does not really seem to exist. So yes it's one or the other. 

What do you compromise on in that middle ground?

[Weezy1973]

10 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Because it was very nice, far nicer that sitting at a dinner trying to find reasons to find the person attractive.

No, It’s mean, why does it matter that people notice you’re with someone attractive. 

[bene]

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Because it was very nice, far nicer that sitting at a dinner trying to find reasons to find the person attractive.

And I get the feeling again that deep down you don’t actually want to date for you but for some kind of outside approval…

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, bene said:

And I get the feeling again that deep down you don’t actually want to date for you but for some kind of outside approval…

 I simply want the best overall experience I can get and there are benchmarks to this. Look around, women love expensive dinners, nice experiences. If I have to settle for someone who does not wow me in some way then the entire exercise is without purpose.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

No, It’s mean, why does it matter that people notice you’re with someone attractive. 

"They thought I was useless and not good enough but I showed them...  I will do the same by dating some highly sought after young woman..."

He has something to prove and it won't be proved by dating some average or below average woman.
She HAS to wow, she HAS to be special, to silence  all those who he thinks  will only be too willing to put him down