Catfish

[BaileyB]

13 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 I really do not think what I am I looking for is unreasonable.

To quote from page 23 -

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My problem I suspect is what I want is pretty specific and that creates it own set of issues. 

 

[basil67]

27 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

The point is I did not need to spend 10 dates with her to experience that, she was physically attractive when I first saw her which helped pique my interest. Case in point of the reverse this afternoon, I spent it at a function with a friend and a lady he is interested in, she is very attractive but after 30 minutes I had had enough so good looks are not an automatic "yes" for me. She of course lapped up all of his player charm.

All I am saying that with no connection the entire idea of dating is totally pointless.

And again, I don't think anyone has told you to spend 10 dates with a person.  It's my experience that an hour is more than enough to know if their personality will shine.

Why are you friends with a player?  I find it odd that you hang out with someone who's actions you despise.

[Acacia98]

On 7/27/2021 at 6:49 PM, CaliforniaGirl said:

Honestly I don't know why the admins allow these repeat posts on literally the same theme to go on and on and on for dozens of pages every time. We're all being played.

I'm not sure I understand the idea that you (and others) are being played. You can literally choose to stop engaging in these discussions. ZA Dater is under no obligation to follow anyone's advice. And you and others are under no obligation to keep giving advice if you feel that it's pointless.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Who would be happy with that, like many I will lean to adapt and live with it. 

Not many people at all would be happy with it. But yes, you will need to live with your unhappiness.

[ZA Dater]

On 7/31/2021 at 11:00 PM, basil67 said:

 

Why are you friends with a player?  I find it odd that you hang out with someone who's actions you despise.

He does much better than I do at dating so there must be merit to it. My view on players has changed because I simply realise my method does not work, if ladies are happy to be with them then who am I to argue. 

He also actually gets to choose people he actually finds attractive, I go to dinners with him and others and this has been good there are single ladies sometimes there, none are ever interested in me which is fine but the allure of a player, well they love that.

Effectively I remove myself from the game in those situations, I prefer that and my evening is far more pleasant. I have no chance anyway so why bother.

 

[Weezy1973]

19 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

He does much better than I do at dating so there must be merit to it.

 

Almost everybody does better than you at dating. Players, relationship oriented guys, teenagers, seniors, fat, nerdy, short, ugly, well you get the point. You are an extreme outlier. 

 

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

if ladies are happy to be with them then who am I to argue. 

Some ladies are happy to be with players. Most I think prefer to be with relationship oriented men, but certainly some prefer the players…

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Almost everybody does better than you at dating. Players, relationship oriented guys, teenagers, seniors, fat, nerdy, short, ugly, well you get the point. You are an extreme outlier. 

 

Some ladies are happy to be with players. Most I think prefer to be with relationship oriented men, but certainly some prefer the players…

It would seem many are seemingly quite happy with the attributes players have, more so if they are older and wealthy. Case in point at a dinner this weekend, 26yo lady chasing a guy near as makes no difference double her age, I chatted to her for a while but just to prove its not all about looks, she was attractive but there was zero real connection at all and no compatibility either. She thought I was married which was quite amusing.

 

 

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Case in point at a dinner this weekend, 26yo lady chasing a guy near as makes no difference double her age,

Was she chasing him or were they chasing each other. (I.e. flirting)?

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 She thought I was married which was quite amusing.

Probably because you weren’t flirting with her…

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

It would seem many are seemingly quite happy with the attributes players have, more so if they are older and wealthy.

True. And many don’t care about wealth at all. But if you’re interested in the types of women that are drawn to wealth, then you can become wealthy. That’s actually something within your control…

Edited August 2, 2021 by Weezy1973

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Was she chasing him or were they chasing each other. (I.e. flirting)?

 

Probably because you weren’t flirting with her…

 

True. And many don’t care about wealth at all. But if you’re interested in the types of women that are drawn to wealth, then you can become wealthy. That’s actually something within your control…

I think many given the choice would choose the wealthy guy even with trade offs. Nevertheless there is a very attractive lady who is working behind the counter at my favourite bakery, maybe I'll try my initiate some conversation. Of course if I had to buy into leagues this would be an inherently bad idea doomed from the outset and it might be doomed but the way Is see it, having removed myself from the game I might as well try chatting, I am expecting nothing.

My new approach is to just not have any approach at all. I can either see my dating life as a failure or I can see it as "had almost all I want and anything more is a bonus". The latter makes for much happier days.

[Weezy1973]

Interesting that you didn’t answer any of my questions.

[ZA Dater]

17 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Was she chasing him or were they chasing each other. (I.e. flirting)?

 

Probably because you weren’t flirting with her…

 

True. And many don’t care about wealth at all. But if you’re interested in the types of women that are drawn to wealth, then you can become wealthy. That’s actually something within your control…

She was chasing him. Well we all know I cant flirt so that is no real surprise now is it? I made conversation with her and that was about it, took me about 5 minutes to realize I was not interested.

The ironic thing is guy with lots of options complain equally much it would seem....

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well we all know I cant flirt so that is no real surprise now is it?

You likely can flirt - or at least learn to. But you won’t because then you risk rejection. 

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The ironic thing is guy with lots of options complain equally much it would seem....

Not really. I knew a “player” back in the day as well. Easily could go into a bar and get phone numbers, sex etc. but the women he wanted to actually be in a relationship often weren’t interested. Lots of women were, just not the ones he wanted for something serious…

[ZA Dater]

On 8/3/2021 at 4:11 PM, Weezy1973 said:

You likely can flirt - or at least learn to. But you won’t because then you risk rejection. 

 

Not really. I knew a “player” back in the day as well. Easily could go into a bar and get phone numbers, sex etc. but the women he wanted to actually be in a relationship often weren’t interested. Lots of women were, just not the ones he wanted for something serious…

I am taking some of your advice and working on pure conversation at the moment, there is a very attractive lady who works at a coffee shop I go to fairly often so when I go there I try make as much conversation as I can, no that I expect much to come from this but at least I am trying something different. Of course the problem is with masks is I cannot actually see if she is smiling at me!

One look at her suggests the chances of her being single are about as likely as me being able to jump off a building and fly.

[Alfano]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

One look at her suggests the chances of her being single are about as likely as me being able to jump off a building and fly.

That's your defeatist attitude.

I've met lots of hot single women. My ex-wife was a perfect 10 when we met 35 years ago, she was single for quite a while. Hot women obviously don't have a problem meeting tons of guys, their issue is finding a nice guy who has a job, isn't some sort of sociopath or drug/alcohol user with control issues who sees her as nothing more than a sex object.

 

[Weezy1973]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

at least I am trying something different.

You’re not really trying anything different though are you? Now if you ask her out on a date, that would be something different. It would actually involve taking a risk. But we all know you won’t do it. So keep chatting with her and living in your fantasy “what if” world. It’s safe there.

[elaine567]

She is a service worker, she is paid to be nice to you.
If she is good looking, open and friendly, she will be well used to guys asking her to go out on dates.
You could spend weeks months even years wasting your time on her, if you do not make a definitive move.
The longer you leave it, the less likely she will be to say yes, as she will have friend-zoned you, thinking you have little or no interest in her.
Ask her out on a date, she can only say no and if that is the case, you can move on to a better prospect.
If she says yes, then it will do your ego the world of good, whatever happens afterwards...

[basil67]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 Of course the problem is with masks is I cannot actually see if she is smiling at me!

You can determine if someone is smiling by looking at their eyes.  When we smile, it's not just the mouth which moves -all the muscles in our face react and they'll get little crinkles beside their eyes...and their eyes light up.

Of course, being a service worker, smiling is part of her job so she will undoubtedly be smiling when she talks with you.  Even back when I was a bank teller, I'd greet every new customer with a smile. 

[ZA Dater]

17 hours ago, elaine567 said:

She is a service worker, she is paid to be nice to you.
If she is good looking, open and friendly, she will be well used to guys asking her to go out on dates.
You could spend weeks months even years wasting your time on her, if you do not make a definitive move.
The longer you leave it, the less likely she will be to say yes, as she will have friend-zoned you, thinking you have little or no interest in her.
Ask her out on a date, she can only say no and if that is the case, you can move on to a better prospect.
If she says yes, then it will do your ego the world of good, whatever happens afterwards...

Inevitably I will overthink the entire thing. The other thing I need to try figure out what sort of format this date would be.

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, basil67 said:

You can determine if someone is smiling by looking at their eyes.  When we smile, it's not just the mouth which moves -all the muscles in our face react and they'll get little crinkles beside their eyes...and their eyes light up.

Of course, being a service worker, smiling is part of her job so she will undoubtedly be smiling when she talks with you.  Even back when I was a bank teller, I'd greet every new customer with a smile. 

Yeah I have seen this. As usual it would seem I have picked a fairly challenging situation. 

The other "issue" I have when I have tried this in the past (with zero success) is how much to sell myself, I mean "would you like to go for lunch sometime" probably would not really work all that well.

My problem here is very poor judgement. Part of me thinks it might be a better idea to try invite her to some social function or a lunch with a group because but again that might not work so well either. 

[elaine567]

What group?
Your player friends?
The 25K follower IG model?
Your long term crush?

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The other "issue" I have when I have tried this in the past (with zero success) is how much to sell myself, I mean "would you like to go for lunch sometime" probably would not really work all that well.

You don’t need to sell anything. Just be yourself. If she likes the conversation great; if not, no big deal. Just ask her for her phone number. And then call her if she gives it to you or shrug it off if she doesn’t. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

You don’t need to sell anything. Just be yourself. If she likes the conversation great; if not, no big deal. Just ask her for her phone number. And then call her if she gives it to you or shrug it off if she doesn’t. 

I am not likely to do the whole give me your number thing, more likely to just simply ask her if she would like to have lunch sometime. Its probably the more risky approach but I'd rather just take that risk than contemplate an awkward phone call.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

What group?
Your player friends?
The 25K follower IG model?
Your long term crush?

Firstly IG model does not even live in the same city. K I have not seen in 5 months, no I was more thinking of taking her along to an event I arrange. A lot of the reason I have been pretty reluctant to do this in the past is honesty what do I have to offer which they might like, rightly or wrong l have the idea that I actually have nothing to really offer them as me so to make up for that I need to do a fancy lunch or dinner or something like that.

The other "difficulty" is every time I have done this it is so incredibly awkward and that just never works. Also there is my inherent logic which says "probably has a BF" so the entire thing becomes even more awkward.

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yeah I have seen this. As usual it would seem I have picked a fairly challenging situation. 

The other "issue" I have when I have tried this in the past (with zero success) is how much to sell myself, I mean "would you like to go for lunch sometime" probably would not really work all that well.

My problem here is very poor judgement. Part of me thinks it might be a better idea to try invite her to some social function or a lunch with a group because but again that might not work so well either. 

As far as selling yourself goes, I have no idea which this would involve....but I can't imagine it having a positive outcome.   And truth be told, if she wants to go on a date with you, she'd likely already be imagining you asking and her saying Yes.   

Anyway, let's backtrack a bit to work out what the chances of success are.   If she's been showing any signs interest ( Does she go out of her way to ask about your life and share about hers?  Does she flirt?)  then there's a higher chance of success than if she's simply being warm and friendly because it's her job.  And yes, it's no surprise that you've had zero success with this in the past.  Many men confuse good customer service with romantic interest and they all get knocked back.  The guys who have better luck are the ones who can read whether or not she has real interest.

Inviting a woman who you barely know to a social function or lunch with a group would be a terrible idea.  Early dates are supposed to be about getting to know each other - not mixing with a crowd.

Lastly, because the chances of success with someone in customer service are so low (for most guys, not just you), if you strike out, this doesn't count as a fail.  

Edited August 18, 2021 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

As far as selling yourself goes, I have no idea which this would involve....but I can't imagine it having a positive outcome.   And truth be told, if she wants to go on a date with you, she'd likely already be imagining you asking and her saying Yes.   

Anyway, let's backtrack a bit to work out what the chances of success are.   If she's been showing any signs interest ( Does she go out of her way to ask about your life and share about hers?  Does she flirt?)  then there's a higher chance of success than if she's simply being warm and friendly because it's her job.  And yes, it's no surprise that you've had zero success with this in the past.  Many men confuse good customer service with romantic interest and they all get knocked back.  The guys who have better luck are the ones who can read whether or not she has real interest.

Inviting a woman who you barely know to a social function or lunch with a group would be a terrible idea.  Early dates are supposed to be about getting to know each other - not mixing with a crowd.

Lastly, because the chances of success with someone in customer service are so low (for most guys, not just you), if you strike out, this doesn't count as a fail.  

On reflection. I'll rather just leave it.

Its good to sometimes have common sense and the above is pretty much common sense, the common sense I clearly lack when it comes to dating. 

The bold is one of my fundamental failures as a person, I simply cannot ever ascertain that.  I get it that early dates are about getting to know each other but that is always such a monumental disaster when it comes to me, they become interviews and that never actually works.

At the end of the day I am simply staring at my old friend: I lack any sort of attraction at all.

Edited August 19, 2021 by ZA Dater