Catfish

[ZA Dater]

Just now, Weezy1973 said:

What would an objective chance of success look like to you?

Some very obvious indication she is interested. I cannot read people's minds and guess if they are interested. 

Of course that will never happen as the game is not played like that. So yea I can walk past any number of attractive people and I am ok with it because well why would they want me and even of they did I would never know anyway.

How do you believe in something when all you get from it is negativity?

 

[Weezy1973]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Some very obvious indication she is interested. I cannot read people's minds and guess if they are interested. 

 

That’s what I’m asking. What would an obvious indication of interest look like to you in order to ask someone out? 

 

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

How do you believe in something when all you get from it is negativity?

Your core beliefs are negative and they colour your worldview. Negativity is all you can see.

[dramafreezone]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Some very obvious indication she is interested. I cannot read people's minds and guess if they are interested. 

Of course that will never happen as the game is not played like that. So yea I can walk past any number of attractive people and I am ok with it because well why would they want me and even of they did I would never know anyway.

How do you believe in something when all you get from it is negativity?

 

I told you why those women would want you.  The fitness, the good clothes, the aura of being successful.  But you have to put effort into it.  You get out of this what you put in.

Women rarely show anyone obvious signs of interest.  If she looks at you and holds eye contact, that is a sign of interest.  It's about making an educated guess, it doesn't mean she will be interested every time.

What do you want, her to come over and unzip your pants?  With your mindset you still wouldn't believe it.

Edited November 17, 2021 by dramafreezone

[bene]

11 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

I told you why those women would want you.  The fitness, the good clothes, the aura of being successful. 

I remember that ZA Dater has said several times how focused he is on work and how successful he is in business. He is also into flashy cars. He is physically fit. In my opinion he ticks all the superficial boxes (because that’s all that counts in his bleak worldview) but somehow all this is still turned into negativity. 🤷‍♀️ 

[ZA Dater]

16 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

That’s what I’m asking. What would an obvious indication of interest look like to you in order to ask someone out? 

 

Your core beliefs are negative and they colour your worldview. Negativity is all you can see.

A nice engaging conversation would be a good start. If I do not get that then I am really not very interested, irrespective of physical attraction. My core beliefs are only negative because I have only had negative experiences. 

Everyone gets rejected, I get that but when that is all I get then its just a cycle which continues. Its very difficult to reverse that as much as I have tried, for example I went on a date last Sunday and it was just a nothing date really, nothing particularly great about that experience. 

Look I do not help my cause by having layers of armor but with the right person these come off very easily, K is a good example of that, a co worker was another example both of them actually got me, I cant understate how nice it is to have an engaging conversation where I do not need to carry the entire conversation, in K's case she tells me if I am being stupid and respect her more of that, we also talk about anything so there is a comfort level there, likewise A. 

OLD I think does not work so well for me, though it would seem sitting at a bar at a house party does not work so well either but to some extent there I know my chances with the few single people are non existent so there is no point in bothering. Has my world become unfairly colored, to some extent yes, many of your and other posts remind me of that.

 

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

I told you why those women would want you.  The fitness, the good clothes, the aura of being successful.  But you have to put effort into it.  You get out of this what you put in.

Women rarely show anyone obvious signs of interest.  If she looks at you and holds eye contact, that is a sign of interest.  It's about making an educated guess, it doesn't mean she will be interested every time.

What do you want, her to come over and unzip your pants?  With your mindset you still wouldn't believe it.

The problem is there is always someone with more. As a person there is very little "worth it" for others to date me, I am simply being honest here. No number of nice clothes make much of a difference there because other have nice clothes and they are fun, charming and can flirt. 

Educated guess....consider myself uneducated.

 

[bene]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The problem is there is always someone with more.

This applies to everyone including Chads, doesn’t it?

[Weezy1973]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The problem is there is always someone with more.

Again, emotionally healthy people aren’t out there just competing for the best. They’re looking for a connection. The relationship itself and that connection is valuable. The teamwork. The shared life goals. It’s not really about the objective traits of one person over another.

 

You’re really going to have to try to wrap your head around the concept of connection. 

[Weezy1973]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

A nice engaging conversation would be a good start. If I do not get that then I am really not very interested, irrespective of physical attraction.

You’ve had nice conversations before and didn’t escalate. Obviously a nice conversation isn’t going to spur you to go outside your comfort zone to ask someone out on a date or go in for a kiss. So what obvious sign of interest are you looking for?

[Weezy1973]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

OLD I think does not work so well for me, though it would seem sitting at a bar at a house party does not work so well either…

Those don’t work for most people. As you know, you’d be better of in situations where you see the same people over and over again. A class. A cycling club. A hiking group. 

[Foxhall]

Just reading an article there on the passing of De Klerk , and the demographic spread of the country and so on

perhaps it is more competitive there  ,than in many places in terms of finding women that you find attractive?

[dramafreezone]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The problem is there is always someone with more. As a person there is very little "worth it" for others to date me, I am simply being honest here. No number of nice clothes make much of a difference there because other have nice clothes and they are fun, charming and can flirt. 

 

You spend entirely too much time focusing on what you don't have.  That in itself is a huge turnoff.

Verne Troyer dated a damn Playboy model, and wasn't even 3 feet tall.   When he was alive he could look at you and say damn I wish I was at least of average height, but he didn't.

Edited November 19, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Veronica73]

These have got to be the most repetitive threads in the history of Internet forums!

[dramafreezone]

17 hours ago, Veronica73 said:

These have got to be the most repetitive threads in the history of Internet forums!

the problem is that the OP is someone that won't for a second consider that he's wrong about anything.  I bailed on this thread some months ago, then came back just for the challenge.  When you're dealing with someone that won't ever admit he's wrong about anything, then no progress can ever be made.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, dramafreezone said:

the problem is that the OP is someone that won't for a second consider that he's wrong about anything.  I bailed on this thread some months ago, then came back just for the challenge.  When you're dealing with someone that won't ever admit he's wrong about anything, then no progress can ever be made.

I am quite happy to admit I may be wrong. I might absolutely be wrong and I accept that but what I will not do is pretend the experiences I have had did not happen and I absolutely will not pretend what I have seen I did not see.

Not once did I profess to be right about anything, all I can say is what my experience has been and what my preferences are.

[ZA Dater]

21 hours ago, Foxhall said:

Just reading an article there on the passing of De Klerk , and the demographic spread of the country and so on

perhaps it is more competitive there  ,than in many places in terms of finding women that you find attractive?

My problem is a self created one in some respects from circumstance, maybe if I had not met models, maybe if I had not spent time with A, maybe if I did not like the things I do, maybe then what I would find attractive would be different. The big difference and this perhaps is where my view has changed is I was so determined to actually accomplish what I wanted to, I wanted that special date,  I wanted that person I could talk to about anything, I wanted that attractive person, I wanted that person who saw the world differently in some respects but the reality as I said is there is not much for me to actually look forward to in dating now. 

Everyday I try put my best foot forward but if one aspect becomes so toxic and negative its very difficult find any enthusiasm. Throughout my dating attempts all I really get is nothing I actually want and that becomes extremely irritating, more so when everyone around me seemingly does not need to make excuses for the people they date, the rest, well they are linking up with ever more attractive people, me well I am like the waiter who never sits down to actual dinner. 

I have often sat, read, re read and re re read advice here and I try to apply that to situations I typically find myself in, figure out ways to actually make those situations work a bit better but I always have this overriding sense that and its often proven to be true, the level of inexperience I have shows up and I am simply dead in the water at that point. People read me the riot act about small talk so I actually do try it but the obvious weakness here I I get bored of that quite quickly I want to ask the questions about the said person, understand what they are passionate about and frankly that never gets me anywhere.

I did not start dating negative, it has simply made me that way.

[ZA Dater]

22 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Again, emotionally healthy people aren’t out there just competing for the best. They’re looking for a connection. The relationship itself and that connection is valuable. The teamwork. The shared life goals. It’s not really about the objective traits of one person over another.

 

You’re really going to have to try to wrap your head around the concept of connection. 

Withe greatest of respect I do not care what sort of connection I have if the person is not physically attractive to me I cannot date them, its really that simple. No amount of connection can ever make up for a lack of physical attraction for me at least. 

Shared life goal, this is quite frankly the single most IMPOSSIBLE thing for me to find and I started looking for it pretty early in life, this becomes the major problem with dating too because one a person may be physically attractive, their entire appeal disappears for me if they sit on the sofa all day and do nothing, she could look like Kate Upton and I would not be interested. 

No the reason why I do not believe in connection is almost ALL the people I know put looks above everything else, connection is something they seemingly find afterwards and this is supported by what I did with catfish, all they were interested in were looks, it opened the door they did not care if I swept streets or worked at an investment bank. Unfortunately and you know this I know the transaction dating scene very well and that scene puts connection at the bottom of the list. A is a great example of this, I lost out based on pure economic power, if anything he is even more awkward than me, he just happens to be a lot richer than me. 

That is the point I am making if someone has one great quality a lot of people will overlook what is not so good because of that great quality, those of us, like me who really have nothing marketable really cannot appeal to people in that way.

Sure if someone spent maybe 6 months around me they may see the good parts but I do not bother hiding the bad anymore why should I really, I am dateless, its pointless pretending to be anything but that. 

Its not like I look around and I see guys like me enjoying any great degree of dating success, most I know simply gave up or ended up settling and yes they did admit to me they did that. 

 

[ZA Dater]

22 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’ve had nice conversations before and didn’t escalate. Obviously a nice conversation isn’t going to spur you to go outside your comfort zone to ask someone out on a date or go in for a kiss. So what obvious sign of interest are you looking for?

Compatibility. 

I have zero confidence and you would have none either in my shoes, so I sit at a bar a pretty brunette speaks to me, we have a conversation, no big deal, I take one look at her and I know from the off I am not going to be someone she will sleep with, why would she when she had endless better options? Everything I in dating or try to do goes back to having zero experience and for the most party very low levels of attractiveness. I am FAR more attractive of the guy who will be that moral support, the guy who will come out in the middle of the night to help, the guy who will sit and listen, the selfless guy who puts other first all the time, the guy who will never let you down. Those of the things I do well at, connecting, fun, those I do terribly at.

A conversation I take at face value because I pretty much know that is as good as its going to get so I might as well enjoy some fleeting attention from someone attractive.

Also I ask myself if the person is actually single to begin with and 9/10 times there are not and bf or whoever arrives. Women lavish attention on people they find attractive, they will talk to me to varying degrees but I never get that level of attention which pretty much tells me where I stand, so asking them out is fruitless when I can see they have zero attraction toward me.

[bene]

10 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

No the reason why I do not believe in connection is almost ALL the people I know put looks above everything else, connection is something they seemingly find afterwards and this is supported by what I did with catfish, all they were interested in were looks, it opened the door they did not care if I swept streets or worked at an investment bank. Unfortunately and you know this I know the transaction dating scene very well and that scene puts connection at the bottom of the list. A is a great example of this, I lost out based on pure economic power, if anything he is even more awkward than me, he just happens to be a lot richer than me. 

I’m confused, why do you keep mingling with shallow people like this? Being a self-proclaimed nonconformist, shouldn’t you find your own crowd of like-minded people? And if that’s what you actually believe that looks and economic power is everything and who needs a connection anyway then why not make an arrangement?

I’m sorry but all this sounds incredibly immature for someone in their thirties. Yes, looks matter but please consider that even the best looking woman will not want to be treated as an object. People go through many changes in life, for example pregnancy can change a woman’s body significantly. No woman will feel secure with a man who is so fixated on looks.

 

[ZA Dater]

22 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Those don’t work for most people. As you know, you’d be better of in situations where you see the same people over and over again. A class. A cycling club. A hiking group. 

Unfortunately for many the world does not work like that, it did not work with K, it did not work with co worker M, it did not work in high school and the fact of the matter is there is nothing I do where I see the same people over and over who are actually single. I do not know ONE single person I would date. Not ONE. Every single person I know is in a relationship/married.

I did once chance upon someone attractive who tried to be friendly and the planets did sort of align but awkward me meant that went nowhere because once again as is always the case inexperience arrived and once that happens there is no saving the situation. That was very much turning a good situation into a bad one. 

 

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, bene said:

I’m confused, why do you keep mingling with shallow people like this? Being a self-proclaimed nonconformist, shouldn’t you find your own crowd of like-minded people? And if that’s what you actually believe that looks and economic power is everything and who needs a connection anyway then why not make an arrangement?

I’m sorry but all this sounds incredibly immature for someone in their thirties. Yes, looks matter but please consider that even the best looking woman will not want to be treated as an object. People go through many changes in life, for example pregnancy can change a woman’s body significantly. No woman will feel secure with a man who is so fixated on looks.

 

Why, it works from a business point of view so there is no real reason to change it. Arrangement do not work for me because the entire thing is fake, I have dabbled in these a few times over the years but I feel nothing so dinner and coffee is about the limit for me, though ironically the one thing I did sort of like is making some sort of difference in these people's lives. 

I have sat at one too many events, bars and such like and seen the allure of everything that is superficial, I could go on about the hardships many people live in, world affairs but the guy buying the drinks will always win out, the best looking guy will have his choice of whoever he seemingly likes. For what its worth, I agree with you. 

A lot of the appeal of dating disappeared when I simply realised the person one is has next to no bearing on how attractive one is seen to be.

 

[Foxhall]

Still a lot of good women out there,

the girl I mentioned a few times here- the girl from 2014 I like to call her,

it puzzles me how she is still apparently single, lol could that be a thought for another day- I wonder the two of you, logistically its probably unlikely but I think you would like her

 she is 37 now, shes not getting any younger if she wishes to have a family.

dont know its hard to figure it all out too,

maybe staying single is not a bad option either.

 

 

 

[dramafreezone]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My problem is a self created one in some respects from circumstance, maybe if I had not met models, maybe if I had not spent time with A, maybe if I did not like the things I do, maybe then what I would find attractive would be different. The big difference and this perhaps is where my view has changed is I was so determined to actually accomplish what I wanted to, I wanted that special date,  I wanted that person I could talk to about anything, I wanted that attractive person, I wanted that person who saw the world differently in some respects but the reality as I said is there is not much for me to actually look forward to in dating now. 

Everyday I try put my best foot forward but if one aspect becomes so toxic and negative its very difficult find any enthusiasm. Throughout my dating attempts all I really get is nothing I actually want and that becomes extremely irritating, more so when everyone around me seemingly does not need to make excuses for the people they date, the rest, well they are linking up with ever more attractive people, me well I am like the waiter who never sits down to actual dinner. 

I have often sat, read, re read and re re read advice here and I try to apply that to situations I typically find myself in, figure out ways to actually make those situations work a bit better but I always have this overriding sense that and its often proven to be true, the level of inexperience I have shows up and I am simply dead in the water at that point. People read me the riot act about small talk so I actually do try it but the obvious weakness here I I get bored of that quite quickly I want to ask the questions about the said person, understand what they are passionate about and frankly that never gets me anywhere.

I did not start dating negative, it has simply made me that way.

Most guys find models physically attractive.  What else do you like about them to where you're drawn to them so much to the exclusion of other women?

[bene]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Why, it works from a business point of view so there is no real reason to change it.

Because this environment is toxic for you and they hold far too much power over your outlook on life. You are taking them way too seriously. 

It just struck me that I have actually worked in an environment that has guys like your player business associates. Think of something like an investment firm that has cocky stock brokers, lawyers, accountants, administrative staff etc, many roles that draw a different type of personality. Anyway, these cocky stock broker types were probably something like your player “friends”. Their antics were somewhat annoying, somewhat amusing. Some older family men looked at them like “eh, kids these days”. They were not some kind of gods to be admired, just a certain type of guys in a certain age. As a woman I knew that I’m not attracted to this type. Yes, they were fun to be around in office parties but that was that. 

What I’m trying to say is that you have painted yourself in the corner insisting that one narrow segment of people is proof of how life works. This tunnel vision is why you would benefit from interacting with other types of people, like join a hiking club or whatever has been suggested here. Change of perspective is always beneficial.

[Weezy1973]

18 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Compatibility. 

The question was what obvious sign of interest would a woman need to give you so you’d take the risk and ask her out on a date, go in for a kiss etc. Compatibility is not a sign of interest.

You’ve written a lot of words saying basically you’ll never do anything to risk rejection no matter what. There’s no sign of interest a woman could give. Fortune favors the bold. And you, refuse to be bold.