Catfish

[ZA Dater]

37 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

OK, but the “something” can be the connection you two share. It doesn’t have to be particular personality traits necessarily. So a “wow” connection, that can develop over time. 

It does not develop over time, its either there or it is not. 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Veronica73 said:

Can someone catch me up? I can’t go through this whole thing. Has anything changed from a year (plus?) ago? And developments? Za…you seem to not have all that many problems getting a first date. So I would guess surface-level things like your own appearance aren’t the problem. (I feel like you used to think that your looks was a big part of the problem.) or is it same old same old?

Look I tend to go on dates with people who do not really interest me in the hope they might interest me so its all a big waste of time really, I'd have to go back quite a long time to remember a date I really enjoyed and felt "ok I'd like to spend time with you".

Its really just an uphill battle all of the time because I have to put in all of the effort and this is the big difference when someone finds you attractive they will put in some effort and the reverse is true.

[Veronica73]

Thanks for the update. Do you still think your appearance is a problem? (I feel like you used to think that it was. Either your face wasn’t attractive enough, and/or you weren’t tall enough.) 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Veronica73 said:

Thanks for the update. Do you still think your appearance is a problem? (I feel like you used to think that it was. Either your face wasn’t attractive enough, and/or you weren’t tall enough.) 

At this point who knows really, everything seems to be wrong. Either I let this get to me or I simply look in the mirror and I am quite happy with what I am looking at. Its just very tiring to continuously have to try and sell myself and try convince people I am attractive. Attractive people generally do not need to do this.

At the moment I simply cannot be bothered, all the selling and she will just pick someone who is attractive to begin with.

Look, when I read about all this connection I do to some degree feel sad because for me things never really seem to line up enough to actually find that and I do think, even if for a short time that would be nice to find, it was with A but the other inconvenient truth is all around me are relationships which are to be polite are very dis functional, to be frank I often just read sections of this forum to just regain some hope that there are good relationships out there because everything around me is bad. 

 

[Foxhall]

Its funny too how the ladies get it wrong with their choices, had a reunion with an old buddy, two fine looking sisters he has and just caught my attention when he remarked how wrong they chose with the men they married.

the supposedly "slicker guys" they choose more often than not it does not work out,

You deserve more of a shot I imagine than some of the ladies have been giving you.

[Weezy1973]

On 11/27/2021 at 10:49 AM, ZA Dater said:

It does not develop over time, its either there or it is not. 

So, you’re solely focused on superficial traits. Ones you can see right away. Depth takes time to see. 

[Weezy1973]

On 11/27/2021 at 12:50 PM, ZA Dater said:

Its just very tiring to continuously have to try and sell myself and try convince people I am attractive. Attractive people generally do not need to do this.

Nobody needs to, nor should they try to sell themselves. Be your authentic self. 

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

So, you’re solely focused on superficial traits. Ones you can see right away. Depth takes time to see. 

If having a conversation is a superficial trait then yes. A conversation either flows or it does not and more often than not it does not flow, someone who is engaging goes a long way with me but most dates I have been on never really have this. I really do not believe it takes 10 dates to determine if you find someone attractive. 

In my opinion most of dating is simply superficial. 

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Nobody needs to, nor should they try to sell themselves. Be your authentic self. 

Which goes nowhere at all. Chad spins some nonsense story and suddenly she is captivated, my interests deemed irrelevant and boring when compared to said nonsense story. I think my general tolerance for this nonsense depends on the day and the situation but I actually usually find it somewhat amusing the lengths guys will go to try and charm someone who I can see is really actually doing very little barring sitting pretty. 

I was reading an article the other day, superficially attractive people have to put in far less effort to garner attention, have far greater choice and the reality seems to be unless one is superficially attractive too, its not even worth trying. Being authentic is never really enough when the person has endless choice so all I simply do is differentiate myself completely from everyone else, which is not hard to do seeing as my opinion and point of view never really aligns to that of many other people. 

Maybe its just simply about looking good and having qualities other people find likeable. I do pretty poorly on both of those so the "joy" I get out of this "game" is challenging myself to try conjure up the most unlikely of challenges with the view that "it wont work but doing something is better than doing nothing", so yes when I go out and I see someone I like, I'll consider myself in the game even though I know I do not even know how to play the game. Its far better than realising as a dating proposition I have zero worth.

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

someone who is engaging goes a long way with me but most dates I have been on never really have this.

Are you engaging? Based on your own descriptions of yourself and being serious, work focused and without a sense of humour, I’m guessing not. 

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I was reading an article the other day, superficially attractive people have to put in far less effort to garner attention, have far greater choice and the reality seems to be unless one is superficially attractive too, its not even worth trying.

Yet the vast majority of people are only average in terms of looks. How do we all date successfully, have relationships, get married, have sex etc.? 

[bene]

15 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I was reading an article the other day, superficially attractive people have to put in far less effort to garner attention, have far greater choice and the reality seems to be unless one is superficially attractive too, its not even worth trying

Well, I’ve read articles about couples who have waited for the other return from war, stand by their seriously ill spouse, travel the world together, renovate an old manor house, live off grid in the wilderness, you name it. None of them went on about how looks is everything. It’s all about what you focus on. 

How do you explain people with depth in relationships? Artists, writers, doctors, anthropologists, historians… Are they all settling and secretly waiting for Chad to come along and dazzle them with spinning some nonsense?

It sounds kind of daft to dismiss all of these people with “but Chad is better looking”.
 

Edited November 30, 2021 by bene

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yet the vast majority of people are only average in terms of looks. How do we all date successfully, have relationships, get married, have sex etc.? 

Because it's all totally subjective with the proviso that certain characteristics are fairly universally attractive. For me I need to find the person as a whole attractive and that's pretty difficult. My own criteria ensures that I frankly find very few people attractive.

[ZA Dater]

19 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Are you engaging? Based on your own descriptions of yourself and being serious, work focused and without a sense of humour, I’m guessing not. 

I am actually in the sense I'll talk about pretty much anything, I can have a conversation. 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, bene said:

Well, I’ve read articles about couples who have waited for the other return from war, stand by their seriously ill spouse, travel the world together, renovate an old manor house, live off grid in the wilderness, you name it. None of them went on about how looks is everything. It’s all about what you focus on. 

How do you explain people with depth in relationships? Artists, writers, doctors, anthropologists, historians… Are they all settling and secretly waiting for Chad to come along and dazzle them with spinning some nonsense?

It sounds kind of daft to dismiss all of these people with “but Chad is better looking”.
 

Well only they can answer that question... again I guess it depends what dazzles but there are once again universally appealing superficial thing's.

I always get dismissed so I hardly even bother because when I do, well there is always some issue so why open myself up to that. Not once have I found mutual attraction, not once and not even close.

My focus is overall attraction which is silly because it's very difficult to find but for me I have found it from time to time and when I have it puts a lot into perspective re any other options.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Because it's all totally subjective with the proviso that certain characteristics are fairly universally attractive. For me I need to find the person as a whole attractive and that's pretty difficult. My own criteria ensures that I frankly find very few people attractive.

And what does this have to do with the fact that superficially attractive people garner more attention and have more options?  And therefore you question why even try?

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I am actually in the sense I'll talk about pretty much anything, I can have a conversation. 

That doesn’t have anything to do with being engaging. 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Not once have I found mutual attraction, not once and not even close.

This happens because of this:

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

My focus is overall attraction…

You’re focusing on the superficial. Right away. Either it’s there or it’s not. 

[ZA Dater]

18 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

This happens because of this:

 

You’re focusing on the superficial. Right away. Either it’s there or it’s not. 

Which is exactly what everyone else does with me so...

[Weezy1973]

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Which is exactly what everyone else does with me so...

Simply a lie. You’ve spoken many times about women that were interested in you. You didn’t happen to be attracted to them, but good evidence that not “everyone” dismisses you based on superficial qualities…

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Simply a lie. You’ve spoken many times about women that were interested in you. You didn’t happen to be attracted to them, but good evidence that not “everyone” dismisses you based on superficial qualities…

Um, I am confused, how can it possibly be the same when these are people I do not find attractive. Or lets simply cut to the chase is it a case I am sort of attractive to these people because they themselves are not deemed to be superficially attractive by society at large and like me they cannot date the sort of people they do find attractive?

 

[SumGuy]

On 11/29/2021 at 7:02 PM, Weezy1973 said:

Yet the vast majority of people are only average in terms of looks. How do we all date successfully, have relationships, get married, have sex etc.? 

Personally, attribute all my success to that funky cold medina  

[Norwhal]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 is it a case I am sort of attractive to these people because they themselves are not deemed to be superficially attractive by society at large and like me they cannot date the sort of people they do find attractive?

Yes that's about right. Over time most people accept that they need to meet people who are not out of their league. It's a simple matter of math and probability.

For guys like me, from past experience over decades of dating and relationships, a highly desirable girl who rates  a 9 and above is out of my league, so I'll settle for a 7-8.5.

In your case, in order to meet a woman you might have to settle for a 5 or 6 or possibly lower. You don't know, you can't know until you start enjoying some successes and see where you level out. 

Since you appear unwilling to even give a girl who rates a 5-6 a fighting chance, statistically the odds of you ever meeting a woman are close to zero.

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Norwhal said:

Yes that's about right. Over time most people accept that they need to meet people who are not out of their league. It's a simple matter of math and probability.

For guys like me, from past experience over decades of dating and relationships, a highly desirable girl who rates  a 9 and above is out of my league, so I'll settle for a 7-8.5.

In your case, in order to meet a woman you might have to settle for a 5 or 6 or possibly lower. You don't know, you can't know until you start enjoying some successes and see where you level out. 

Since you appear unwilling to even give a girl who rates a 5-6 a fighting chance, statistically the odds of you ever meeting a woman are close to zero.

 

Lets think about this, how do you propose I enjoy some success with people I do not find attractive and can that even be called success to begin with? Why should I give anyone I do not find attractive a chance, its not as if the favour is ever returned in my direction. Once again the adage of men standing in a line waiting to be picked springs to mind and yes I suppose that goes well with the infamous league, which to me is basically saying we should all just accept everything, why not just walk around in grey overalls and live in the same apartment as everyone else, have the same furniture as everyone else and you are a smart guy you can definitely see what I mean here. Leagues are a function of how we think, are you telling me you would not take all dating opportunities with attractive people at face value or do you then limit yourself from the start?

 

 

 

[Foxhall]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

which to me is basically saying we should all just accept everything, why not just walk around in grey overalls and live in the same apartment as everyone else, have the same furniture as everyone else

It is admirable in a way how you hold out for what you believe in, I always like your thoughts such as highlighted above. 

would it be so bad though to settle for a 7 out of 10,

the Eva Green lookalike you desire- you may have to some day accept that it is not achievable,

your not at the acceptance stage yet,

Your confidence levels at interacting ,however, are far removed from where your need to be to attract that type of woman,

I think it is as much or more confidence and personality that you need as it is looks.

how can you build the necessary confidence-

Most people would date lesser looking women in an attempt to build confidence but then again if you have absolutely no attraction to them, I suppose its unfair on them to fake it.

your best way forward- dont know really- I think you need someone above my payscale to help you with that,