Catfish

[Weezy1973]

51 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

The OPs problem is that he's unwilling to make a concerted effort to make up the difference since he is missing the charisma. 

Exactly. He basically has three options:

 

1. Work on bettering himself in the ways that will increase his attractiveness so the women he covets will date him.

 

2. Date women that are in his league now.

 

3. Spend a lifetime alone.

 

He had no interest in 1 or 2, and is very unhappy with 3 (hence the epic threads). 

[elaine567]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Work on bettering himself... 

Why should he?... when women make no effort for him...???
 

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Why should he?... when women make no effort for him...???
 

What he doesn't realize is that those extremely attractive women he likes make an effort to everyone.

Maybe OP has never seen what those women do to fix themselves up and that he wouldn't even recognize some of them if they weren't fixed up.  In fact he probably wouldn't even be attracted to them.

OP thinks he can pick and choose who he makes an effort for.  Doesn't work like that.  Your every day effort is your effort.  And anyone knows that temporary effort can only last so long before we slip back into old habits.  If he were to get one of these women that he so covets it'd be a few months before he turns right back into the same guy he is now.

Edited December 5, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

What he doesn't realize is that those extremely attractive women he likes make an effort to everyone.

We've told him this many times.

 

3 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

OP thinks he can pick and choose who he makes an effort for.  Doesn't work like that.  Your every day effort is your effort. 

Exactly. He's not willing to "jump through hoops" to impress a woman. Totally agree - none of us should be forcing ourselves to be someone we're not for the sake of a woman (or man as the case may be). But that's not the advice he's been given. Work on yourself for YOU. Be the best YOU, you can be. Same with trying to meet like minded people in general. Go because they're like minded, not because there's a particularly attractive woman there. He keeps bemoaning the fact that when he joined the hiking club it was full of older women. What does that have to do with hiking? If you like hiking, go hiking! And doing it with like-minded people, regardless of their age, can be fun and you can start to form a bit of a social circle. Regardless of age....

[SumGuy]

On 12/5/2021 at 1:03 PM, Weezy1973 said:

Exactly. He basically has three options:

1. Work on bettering himself in the ways that will increase his attractiveness so the women he covets will date him.

2. Date women that are in his league now.

3. Spend a lifetime alone.

He had no interest in 1 or 2, and is very unhappy with 3 (hence the epic threads). 

Don't believe in "leagues" as it is popularly defined (basically based solely on looks and money) plenty of experience with "10s" dating "5s"  When one talks about leagues it tends to overwhelm the fact that for many what is important is the whole package.   Now leagues may make one feel better, as you then can blame things on looks and money (two things pretty much out of our control at some point, especially when it comes to reaching a "10" in these categories) when in reality it is more one's personality, mind set and lack of being able to connect to another human that is the issue, a much tougher pill to swallow or thing to improve BUT it is almost completely within ones control and thus hard to use as an excuse to do nothing.   

I'd change 2. to "2. Broaden the scope of the women he gives a chance."    There is another that always gets forgotten, "4. Change the pond your fishing in."   So what OP has to offer is not valued by the women he meets in his milieu, but from expereince there are ones where he is desirable on paper...there is still the personality/human-interaction component though.

[SumGuy]

On 12/5/2021 at 5:20 PM, Weezy1973 said:

...Exactly. He's not willing to "jump through hoops" to impress a woman. Totally agree - none of us should be forcing ourselves to be someone we're not for the sake of a woman (or man as the case may be). But that's not the advice he's been given. Work on yourself for YOU. Be the best YOU, you can be. Same with trying to meet like minded people in general. Go because they're like minded, not because there's a particularly attractive woman there. He keeps bemoaning the fact that when he joined the hiking club it was full of older women. What does that have to do with hiking? If you like hiking, go hiking! And doing it with like-minded people, regardless of their age, can be fun and you can start to form a bit of a social circle. Regardless of age....

Yep, so true.  

[elaine567]

On 12/5/2021 at 10:20 PM, Weezy1973 said:

Work on yourself for YOU. Be the best YOU, you can be. Same with trying to meet like minded people in general. Go because they're like minded, not because there's a particularly attractive woman there. He keeps bemoaning the fact that when he joined the hiking club it was full of older women. What does that have to do with hiking? If you like hiking, go hiking! And doing it with like-minded people, regardless of their age, can be fun and you can start to form a bit of a social circle. Regardless of age....

Yes, ZA needs to expand his social circle away from his player friends, but few who are actively dating want to "waste time"  with a group of  people that is not gong to generate potential dates.
He might as well go cycling on his own for all the good "hiking" with that group will do for his chances of getting a date.

Yes, there is the possibility of these women introducing him to younger sisters and friends or their daughters, but ZA is not some life and soul of the party, eligible bachelor he is a shy awkward overly formal serious guy.
Yes some woman may think him perfect for her shy awkward overly formal serious daughter but that is NOT what he wants, that is the last thing he wants...

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Don't believe in "leagues" as it is popularly defined (basically based solely on looks and money) plenty of experience with "10s" dating "5s" 

Agree, which is why I’ve explained that leagues are about options, not superficial traits. Although those superficial traits do have an impact, they’re far from the whole story. 

[dramafreezone]

2 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Don't believe in "leagues" as it is popularly defined (basically based solely on looks and money) plenty of experience with "10s" dating "5s"  When one talks about leagues it tends to overwhelm the fact that for many what is important is the whole package.   Now leagues may make one feel better, as you then can blame things on looks and money (two things pretty much out of our control at some point, especially when it comes to reaching a "10" in these categories) when in reality it is more one's personality, mind set and lack of being able to connect to another human that is the issue, a much tougher pill to swallow or thing to improve BUT it is almost completely within ones control and thus hard to use as an excuse to do nothing.   

 

Well leagues depends on what the beholder values.

There are several thousand diffferent leagues.  Maybe some people value looks and money.  Maybe others value looks and fitness.  Maybe others value ambition and creativity?  Each of those is a "league".  He thinks there is only one league and the rest of us know that's not true. 

He's attracted to women that simply don't value what he values, but yet he still wants to stay in that "league."  Yet at the same time he doesn't really want to up his standing in that league. It's mind-boggling.

[ZA Dater]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:45 PM, Weezy1973 said:

Agree, which is why I’ve explained that leagues are about options, not superficial traits. Although those superficial traits do have an impact, they’re far from the whole story. 

I'd say they are fairly important.

[ZA Dater]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:22 PM, elaine567 said:

Yes, ZA needs to expand his social circle away from his player friends, but few who are actively dating want to "waste time"  with a group of  people that is not gong to generate potential dates.
He might as well go cycling on his own for all the good "hiking" with that group will do for his chances of getting a date.

Yes, there is the possibility of these women introducing him to younger sisters and friends or their daughters, but ZA is not some life and soul of the party, eligible bachelor he is a shy awkward overly formal serious guy.
Yes some woman may think him perfect for her shy awkward overly formal serious daughter but that is NOT what he wants, that is the last thing he wants...

This is interesting because when I actually met other people I was struck by how much I did not fit in by virtue of my thinking. People chatting about friends getting married, bachelors parties, running and I guess I was struck by how different that was to my very business focused way of thinking, comparing food and amazingly I actually met another guy who also does not drink, which in that particular social setting helped a lot.

Almost my entire life to some degree pivots around work so it was odd being in a setting which did not fit into that circle. What was also interesting was everyone was partnered up and it was interesting to see the dynamics between the people and imagine myself as one of those guys, which frankly I could not do. 

Maybe I have never really appreciated the blissful simplicity of single life.