Catfish

[SumGuy]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

At what point do men ever get complimented if ever? 

This is going to sound terrible but rarely do I feel the people I meet are compliment worthy, I have never ever been complimented even once on a date  but I suppose that is normal on this very much one way street.....

Compliments are a two way street, I got complimented all the time, not heavily but certainly a compliment in there always.   Really just positive observations and I take as compliments things she like about my profile.  Now some people only register a compliment when it falls within the script they have for how the encounter is supposed to go and/or things they want to be complimented on.

Quote

What I like about this list is really all the things I have tried to improve are mostly irrelevant in terms of this, being more outgoing, more relaxed on dates, less serious, trying to do banter, eye contact, smiling, maybe some teasing, all are actually ineffective in the long run.

Enjoyable conversation, flirting, smiling, creating connection, showing yourself as a sexual being and making her feel desired...these are all supported by that.   The important thing is it needs to be genuine not some act.

Quote

The bigger irony is the precise actions of what I term "playboys" are encompassed in the above and it will be very very hard neigh on impossible for me to adopt that approach because I detest its fakeness so much. Again some good closure here.

The bigger irony is you like to lump actual genuine human communication and connection and being interested in people in a non-judgmental way as "playboy" or some other derogatory term.  "Playboys" (in the negative aspects of the term) are not genuine or honest, they fake theses things, albeit well.

Once you lump it in with unsavory people who manipulate, you seem to then just dismiss "conversation, flirting, smiling, creating connection, showing yourself as a sexual being and making her feel desired" as dishonest and so instead of having to do the very hard work on your self and how you interact with people you can take the "moral high ground" and do nothing.  Combine this with your theory of human interaction that it is all about looks/money etc. and you have made yourself an unassailable fortress of do nothing.

Quote

Its very difficult sitting here to actually think what I can improve

People have been letting you know what you can improve, but you dismiss it in many ways.  Here is what you can improve:

(1) Enjoyable conversation: learn to enjoy conversation on a wide variety of topics not just "what interests you."  You don't need to be conversant in these just be able to enjoy and interact.  You could learn to have more interests and be open to maybe changing your mind.  Or simply take interest in their interest, take an interest in why they like it, that is taking an interest in them.  It is not hard, it just requires some empathy and actually caring about them as a person.  Sure people can fake this, but it is easier to just care in my view, unless one is a sociopath.

(2) Flirting: Yah, wait on this one.

(3) Smiling;  Pretty easy, if not seek therapy...IIRC you have...keep looking until can find someone who can help you.  If you seriously cannot find things that make you smile.  If you work on (1) I think this can follow as enjoyable conversation can make one smile.   

(4) Connection:  More than just interests and hobbies, and maybe not even that, just talking about your world view creates connection if they line up.  Sure "playboys" spew a bunch of lies, which few are really fooled by.  Can't go wrong being genuine, just don't expect people to be attracted to a chip on one's shoulder.

(5) Showing yourself as a sexual being: Once you have (1), (3) and (4) down can expand on this but it can be as simple as how you dress, and subtle as you shirt is a bit tight.  Otherwise showing your passion for something in life can help show this.

(6) Making her feel desired:  This really comes out of doing the above, really flirting can emerge spontaneously when you have (1), (3) and (4) going.

 

If I was your "coach" I'd say work on (1) and (3) first.  These are readily in your grasp and ability to do, the only thing holding you back on these is what is in your head.  Then turn to (4) and how you dress to help with (5) but dress is very dependent on the type of woman you seek.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by SumGuy

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Idea does not interest me at all. Partly because nobody I find interesting would be remotely interested when they can go out and find better. Again it's all or nothing for me, I have come close to paying a few times but morally it doesn't sit with me and it doesn't get me someone to take to dinner or any of the things I reay want.

You’re not getting it. Having sex with someone casually is by definition not a lifelong commitment. The goal is to demystify sex and make it so your inexperience doesn’t impact your confidence. 

[ZA Dater]

57 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’re not getting it. Having sex with someone casually is by definition not a lifelong commitment. The goal is to demystify sex and make it so your inexperience doesn’t impact your confidence. 

Still I need to actually like the person, feel some connection with them.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Compliments are a two way street, I got complimented all the time, not heavily but certainly a compliment in there always.   Really just positive observations and I take as compliments things she like about my profile.  Now some people only register a compliment when it falls within the script they have for how the encounter is supposed to go and/or things they want to be complimented on.

Enjoyable conversation, flirting, smiling, creating connection, showing yourself as a sexual being and making her feel desired...these are all supported by that.   The important thing is it needs to be genuine not some act.

The bigger irony is you like to lump actual genuine human communication and connection and being interested in people in a non-judgmental way as "playboy" or some other derogatory term.  "Playboys" (in the negative aspects of the term) are not genuine or honest, they fake theses things, albeit well.

Once you lump it in with unsavory people who manipulate, you seem to then just dismiss "conversation, flirting, smiling, creating connection, showing yourself as a sexual being and making her feel desired" as dishonest and so instead of having to do the very hard work on your self and how you interact with people you can take the "moral high ground" and do nothing.  Combine this with your theory of human interaction that it is all about looks/money etc. and you have made yourself an unassailable fortress of do nothing.

People have been letting you know what you can improve, but you dismiss it in many ways.  Here is what you can improve:

(1) Enjoyable conversation: learn to enjoy conversation on a wide variety of topics not just "what interests you."  You don't need to be conversant in these just be able to enjoy and interact.  You could learn to have more interests and be open to maybe changing your mind.  Or simply take interest in their interest, take an interest in why they like it, that is taking an interest in them.  It is not hard, it just requires some empathy and actually caring about them as a person.  Sure people can fake this, but it is easier to just care in my view, unless one is a sociopath.

(2) Flirting: Yah, wait on this one.

(3) Smiling;  Pretty easy, if not seek therapy...IIRC you have...keep looking until can find someone who can help you.  If you seriously cannot find things that make you smile.  If you work on (1) I think this can follow as enjoyable conversation can make one smile.   

(4) Connection:  More than just interests and hobbies, and maybe not even that, just talking about your world view creates connection if they line up.  Sure "playboys" spew a bunch of lies, which few are really fooled by.  Can't go wrong being genuine, just don't expect people to be attracted to a chip on one's shoulder.

(5) Showing yourself as a sexual being: Once you have (1), (3) and (4) down can expand on this but it can be as simple as how you dress, and subtle as you shirt is a bit tight.  Otherwise showing your passion for something in life can help show this.

(6) Making her feel desired:  This really comes out of doing the above, really flirting can emerge spontaneously when you have (1), (3) and (4) going.

 

If I was your "coach" I'd say work on (1) and (3) first.  These are readily in your grasp and ability to do, the only thing holding you back on these is what is in your head.  Then turn to (4) and how you dress to help with (5) but dress is very dependent on the type of woman you seek.

 

 I can buy into a lot of that.

What I have tried over the years it exactly as you say 1, I can talk about pretty much anything to be honest and take an interest in pretty much anything one date I went on was with an aupair  and we spent 2 hours chatting about the kids she looks after. The thing is it becomes tiring when the conversation does not flow and I need to try keep propping it up, this happens often and is very discouraging. You know how nice it is when a conversation flows, really that is great. I am happy to take an interest in what someone believes in and their own life experiences because they are all different and all provide perspective.

3 I have purposefully tried on dates to laugh and smile and try keep things light and even tried some banter, its not like I sit back and do not try, I actually do.

4 My world view never lines up because I never find people want to engage on this topic at all, its as if they do not have anything to say or simply have no view at all so this is very difficult, I love this about the models I met because they always had world views and could actually talk about things. Not so much the accountant at the kitchen company. I always go out to be me, rather than pretend to be someone else, I am more comfortable with that.

5 Dressing I like clothes that fit well so baggy clothes do not have a lot of appeal, clothes can make a person feel good and I like what I wear. 

The inherent problem for me is I just have nobody to actually take on dates, its like getting dressed up with nowhere to go. Catfishing was nice because suddenly I had tons of fake options all keen to actually meet me, do you know how many times that has happened to me, the answer is never. Its an endless struggle and I will admit its caused me to look at things badly but when you struggle, struggle and get nowhere its very, very disheartening. Surely people can relate to that?

Look at this last incident, I really tried there, objectively I think I did quite well actually but still one slip up here and there and one wrong word and its toast. Oh and competition I cannot compete with. 

Everything you say above is 100% correct in my eyes, like Basil its good solid advice so thank you. I have been trying and trying and trying to work on these things for years but it feels like I simply cannot get any sort of break here. Everyday I work out, try to look as best I can but again even that draws constant criticism. It just feels like nothing is ever good enough, its one punch after another because there is never any good at all. Worse than that I frequently feel and this applies to instances where I rarely meet ladies via friends that they look down at me and pity me. This is a terrible feeling to have and when I see their language, their body language its clear this is what they are doing.

I have tried to learn body language to try to better read people. Spent a lot of time on this and I am sort of here and there with it. Equally I have worked on my own body language to be more open and apparently receptive. Again it is very, very hard to be positive about an aspect of life which has just brought me mountain of disappointment. Right about now I am "yes but its normal" is it really because I cannot find anyone else who at 37 has had NO success at all EVER. 

So yes when I walk down the beach every Saturday like I normally do I am just alone, people are sitting with partners, kids are running around and what do I have, nothing really, absolutely nothing at all and absolutely no prospects either. 

All I can do is keep working at your list and believe in what seems to be impossible because truthfully I do not believe in it anymore. The best of it I have already had.

[basil67]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have never been complimented on anything ever, this tends to run through my life in general though. Yeah I have had the enjoyable conversation maybe once ever.

Look I can talk about anything but really for me I just turn on business version of me and then yes I want to learn and understand and enquire but again this is rare because the dates I go on lack any sort of meat, mostly I feel like I am show pony there for an audition against a list of 20 other guys also there to audition so it makes no sense for her to say much its just about me convincing her I am better bet than the other 20 competitors.

Again its amazing how catfishing this problem does not exist, why because the ladies were actually trying to sell themselves.

Thanks again though sincerely for your earlier post, it answered and helped me make sense of a lot of things. The reality is those things and those limitations, I'd need something mega to make up for them and honestly that seems a stretch too far.

Glad my comments were of use.

With the compliments, I've also rarely been complimented.  And the compliments I do receive are from other women and pertain to my amateur dressmaking skills and parenting of our autistic son.  Far from romantic!    Aside from drunk women in nightclub bathrooms, I don't think there's really all that much complimenting going on.   Perhaps you're seeking something which doesn't exist that much?   

The enjoyable conversation where you just want to keep talking is also quite rare, both socially and romantically.   Granted, I'm a bit weird and awkward so it might be easier for others who are more mainstream, but nonetheless, that connection does seem to be a bit of a holy grail.   As I've mentioned before, I prioritise connection over looks, so when I've found that connection with a romantic prospect, that's a cue to engage further.  Looks are transient, so connection is so much more important to me.  

Yeah, OLD is skewed to those who are more visual. 

[ZA Dater]

One of the things I am going to try do is try get rid of some of this baggage I carry around with me, at the very least that might make being alone a bit more tolerable. I'll go buy myself something, that usually makes me feel a bit better, winter clothes shopping can be quite nice in this regard, though the reverse of this is I accumulate clothes I hardly ever wear.

I do not think there is a solution for me but I will carry that list around in my mind just in case.....of course there will never be a chance of a win because there will always be someone better to choose from. 

Such is life I guess.

[Prudence V]

19 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have tried to learn body language to try to better read people.

OP from this, and other things you write, I suspect you’re on the spectrum or neurodiverse in some other way. You also spoke earlier about being very shy. I am too, which is partly why the whole dating thing never had any appeal for me. So I’d like to know from you what it is about dating that appeals to you. You’ve listed all the ways it’s a nightmare for you, but not why you want it. 
 

It’s not for sex, from what you describe; nor is it for friendship since you seem to have no issues on the platonic front. So what exactly is it you feel you’re missing, here?

I never saw the point, myself. Sure, back in high school if you didn’t have a boyfriend or a girlfriend you were ranked lower on some social scale, but once you leave high school and you’re free to choose who you associate with, all of that falls away. 
 

You describe going to the beach alone. Why not go with friends if you feel lonely? You want to have lunch on a wine farm, why not invite a friend, or friends? You want to have great conversation - call up a friend and have coffee. Other than sex, what is it that you’re missing that you can’t get from friends, that you feel a need to get from dating? 

 

[ZA Dater]

38 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

OP from this, and other things you write, I suspect you’re on the spectrum or neurodiverse in some other way. You also spoke earlier about being very shy. I am too, which is partly why the whole dating thing never had any appeal for me. So I’d like to know from you what it is about dating that appeals to you. You’ve listed all the ways it’s a nightmare for you, but not why you want it. 
 

It’s not for sex, from what you describe; nor is it for friendship since you seem to have no issues on the platonic front. So what exactly is it you feel you’re missing, here?

I never saw the point, myself. Sure, back in high school if you didn’t have a boyfriend or a girlfriend you were ranked lower on some social scale, but once you leave high school and you’re free to choose who you associate with, all of that falls away. 
 

You describe going to the beach alone. Why not go with friends if you feel lonely? You want to have lunch on a wine farm, why not invite a friend, or friends? You want to have great conversation - call up a friend and have coffee. Other than sex, what is it that you’re missing that you can’t get from friends, that you feel a need to get from dating? 

 

 Because I have no friends really, associates yea, friend's no.

I want it because I have had one great experience so I know how good it can be. Life just feels more complete.

[Interstellar]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:26 AM, ZA Dater said:

 

Yeah. 

You really should spend money and have a professional photographer take your pictures instead. If you look at Adam Driver, he’s not a good looking guy and not remotely handsome but since he’s an actor he has tons of great looking pictures.

You’re a good looking guy and you just need much better pictures to highlight that. Walking around with a chip on your shoulders, feeling sorry for yourself all the time isn’t gonna help you, I get that we’re humans and we feel that from time to time but you search deep inside you and you gotta look at your positive qualities more and more and know what you bring to the table. Take the time to pat yourself in the back, and  that you’re trying to better yourself not because you want to impress some chick but because of the inner satisfaction and growth it brings you as a person.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Interstellar

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, Interstellar said:

You really should spend money and have a professional photographer take your pictures instead. If you look at Adam Driver, he’s not a good looking guy and not remotely handsome but since he’s an actor he has tons of great looking pictures.

You’re a good looking guy and you just need much better pictures to highlight that. Walking around with a chip on your shoulders, feeling sorry for yourself all the time isn’t gonna help you, I get that we’re humans and we feel that from time to time but you search deep inside you and you gotta look at your positive qualities more and more and know what you bring to the table. Take the time to pat yourself in the back, and  that you’re trying to better yourself not because you want to impress some chick but because of the inner satisfaction and growth it brings you as a person.

Thanks for the compliment. I might go down the pro photographer route, which I did on and off before but I guess I can try again. 

I will also keep working on the list above.

[ZA Dater]

Thanks for everyone contributions. I sat for a while and took stock of where I am in life, some of the questions posed here made me think a bit more about certain things. I thought about my approach, what I hope to accomplish and what the journey has been so far.

The reality is I don't need to actually date, sure I would like some intimacy but when I think all the boxes that need to get ticked to get to that point I concede its frankly an unrealistic ideal. Perhaps the thing I craze most in life is a sense of accomplishment and to expand on this, being kind to someone makes me feel good, giving makes me feel good, living by the moral compass makes me good, kids make me smile, a sense of belonging makes me happy but by most objective standard the standard I set for myself and the goals I have had have been totally missed. 

Spending a many days effectively living with someone(and her baby) I enjoyed spending time with made me realise how much in life I have missed, they were the best of days but they also made me believe in something which is not possible. She still chats with me, there is zero chance of anything romantic happening there.

Tomorrow I am supposed to go on a Tinder date, she does yoga, most guys here would rate her as 10/10 looks wise, why on earth she matched with me I have no idea (she is not a cat fish by the way  ) but I simply do not feel like it. Probably because she ignored me for a week, whilst posting with some other guy all over social media. Lets be honest I do not carry any real confidence into this meeting and I feel like business like me will just appear in this very instance. I'll go anyway but with no particular strategy barring the smiling, try be charming one as outlined in a post above. She does not drink which I suppose is alright but there is a very busy social life and that will be extremely challenging for me. 

Its like I know I have had the best I am likely to get and everything else will never measure up to that, which is ridiculous frankly but its how I feel. Maybe I am just better off being on my own, stop fighting that reality and just accept it with all the significant cons which come with it.

Really not sure, its it possible to feel disappointment for a long period of time?

 

[Acacia98]

I think you would fare better in a culture in which people were more sexually conservative, so maybe a religious community or a community in some less "Westernized" countries. But I have no idea whether you are religious, so the religious community may not really be an option. I just know that the dating norms that prevail in society today don't work for everyone. So, for instance, I would be okay with the idea of being friends first and then, if there's a connection, dating that person. But many folks are against that on discussion forums.

I would suggest you completely put dating on the backburner and, if it is at all possible (given the COVID-19 scenario), spend some time out there travelling and just gaining experiences that help you grow as a person and connect with other human beings beyond your usual social circle. 

[ZA Dater]

On 5/14/2021 at 1:01 PM, Acacia98 said:

I think you would fare better in a culture in which people were more sexually conservative, so maybe a religious community or a community in some less "Westernized" countries. But I have no idea whether you are religious, so the religious community may not really be an option. I just know that the dating norms that prevail in society today don't work for everyone. So, for instance, I would be okay with the idea of being friends first and then, if there's a connection, dating that person. But many folks are against that on discussion forums.

I would suggest you completely put dating on the backburner and, if it is at all possible (given the COVID-19 scenario), spend some time out there travelling and just gaining experiences that help you grow as a person and connect with other human beings beyond your usual social circle. 

I had few friends growing up because many were religious and I am not so no a religious alternative will not work. No, I think I just need to slow down and just let things be. I cant mope about what I dont have and what I am not but I can be brutally honest about when I never win at this. 

I got a really nice birthday message today from the window I spent a lot of time with, she remembered it was my birthday and really said a lot of really touching nice things, which I really appreciated. I declined an invite to join a friend and his friends this morning, one thing this forum is teaching me slowly is to say no to situations where I am going to feel poorly about myself and sitting with a bunch of people I have nothing in common with and being the spare parts there would not make me feel good so I went for a walk on my own instead. I had a great networking business meeting yesterday with someone I met for the first time.

The point here is for too many years I have put myself in situations which do no work for me and the only person who ends up feeling bad is me, sitting with guys talking about this chick and that chick and who did what and who is better, what do I have to add to that conversation, nothing and I just end up regretting the life I never had and wont ever have. Instead I can focus my energy on work and things which do matter to me and do when I get them right give me a sense of success.

I just need to reconcile I wont ever get the attention an attractive guy does or a guy who has superficial qualities. 

[bene]

On 5/5/2021 at 11:48 PM, ZA Dater said:

So yes when I walk down the beach every Saturday like I normally do I am just alone, people are sitting with partners, kids are running around and what do I have, nothing really, absolutely nothing at all and absolutely no prospects either. 

Are all these people supermodels? Or are they nice normal looking people just like you? 

I’m asking because you repeatedly bring up looks as the only thing that matters.

 

[chillii]

One things for sure , you will self for fill your own written prophecies that you repeat in all your threads over and over. Gees man if you said something positive that many times the mind boggles at just what it could do.

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, bene said:

Are all these people supermodels? Or are they nice normal looking people just like you? 

I’m asking because you repeatedly bring up looks as the only thing that matters.

 

Well somewhat oddly they do actually matter and yes seemingly more than most other things, material wealth excepted.

[Cookiesandough]

Glad you’re updating to better pics, bro. OLD is superficial af. I guess a lot of dating is in a lot of ways, but particularly swipe apps . I remember if the pics weren’t good/I wasn’t interested from the pictures, the dude wasn’t even considered in a read the profile sense.  

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, chillii said:

One things for sure , you will self for fill your own written prophecies that you repeat in all your threads over and over. Gees man if you said something positive that many times the mind boggles at just what it could do.

I am realistic.

 

1 minute ago, Cookiesandough said:

Glad you’re updating to better pics, bro. OLD is superficial af. I guess a lot of dating is in a lot of ways, but particularly swipe apps . I remember if the pics weren’t good/I wasn’t interested from the pictures, the dude wasn’t even considered in a read the profile sense.  

I think I am just going to just take an extended break to. At the moment I am cutting a lot of things out of life the biggest one is putting myself in situations where I do not fit in.

[bene]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well somewhat oddly they do actually matter and yes seemingly more than most other things, material wealth excepted.

You didn’t really answer the question. Yes, of course looks matter but not to the extent you insist. Most people are somewhere in between, they are not supermodels and they are not some hideous monsters. All my friends who are married or in a relationship are nice looking people who don’t compare themselves to movie stars or lingerie models on a daily basis. And no, they are not miserable and have not settled for less  I think many people here have said that you look just fine. Usually life happens somewhere inbetween extremes. OLD maybe distorts the perception but in real life you must see all kinds of people in relationships.

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, bene said:

You didn’t really answer the question. Yes, of course looks matter but not to the extent you insist. Most people are somewhere in between, they are not supermodels and they are not some hideous monsters. All my friends who are married or in a relationship are nice looking people who don’t compare themselves to movie stars or lingerie models on a daily basis. And no, they are not miserable and have not settled for less  I think many people here have said that you look just fine. Usually life happens somewhere inbetween extremes. OLD maybe distorts the perception but in real life you must see all kinds of people in relationships.

Sure I just cannot find any mutual attraction at all, that's really what it boils down to really. Good looking people get better level of attention, others need to work a lot harder to catch the eye of others and well some people just don't. Well I am glad you think I like fine, I do too but apparently based on OLD I do not look so fine but irrespective I can sit and eat that piece of cake and admire the ocean and in passing that  brunette who has just left yoga. 

No I do not stack up socially or looks wise but this year is about being kind to myself so I'll counteract that by keeping my focus on the positive, which is not dating.

[40Something]

On 5/3/2021 at 7:21 PM, ZA Dater said:

So much aggression. 

Every South African on here....huge crowd. At least the last one was honest enough to admit cliques exist, kudos.

The entire point of my post was lost on you. Its simply about differing levels of interaction based on a picture which I think is ridiculous. Can you honestly tell me when you do OLD you throw yourself more at some people than others, oh wait I do not think you do OLD or probably do not have to.....

As for what I have, plenty actually. I am not ashamed of who I am and what I stand for and I'll back myself in a debate with people, even those with two degrees. Never cared for book smart personally.

ZA Dater, I'm from the friendly city in SA. My dating pool is a pond compared to the ocean that is Cape Town. Every single post of yours make me want to weep in frustration because you are not willing to change and get defensive when the kind people on this site give you constructive advice. I will say it again and louder this time, you are giving the wrong impression of the women in South Africa and its annoying, you are unsuccessful in dating because of your lack of personality which you own, not because the women are all that shallow, or not good looking enough, or too fat or or. I'm not trying to be mean but, just stop with the woe is me attitude.

I'm watching reruns of Love Island UK and a lot of those absolute hunks are about average in looks imo, but what they lack in looks they more than make up for in charisma and confidence. That's what you need. Just some confidence. Nothing more unattractive than a sad figure staring back at you on what is meant to be an exciting new meeting.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, 40Something said:

ZA Dater, I'm from the friendly city in SA. My dating pool is a pond compared to the ocean that is Cape Town. Every single post of yours make me want to weep in frustration because you are not willing to change and get defensive when the kind people on this site give you constructive advice. I will say it again and louder this time, you are giving the wrong impression of the women in South Africa and its annoying, you are unsuccessful in dating because of your lack of personality which you own, not because the women are all that shallow, or not good looking enough, or too fat or or. I'm not trying to be mean but, just stop with the woe is me attitude.

I'm watching reruns of Love Island UK and a lot of those absolute hunks are about average in looks imo, but what they lack in looks they more than make up for in charisma and confidence. That's what you need. Just some confidence. Nothing more unattractive than a sad figure staring back at you on what is meant to be an exciting new meeting.

 

 

Change what? I am quite happy being the person I am? I suppose ones impression is created by ones experiences and mine have been negative and I am not going to praise something that is hugely negative. I tend call things as I see them. If I had some great experiences then sure my impression would be different.

Fact remains I have plenty of personality around people I actually find interesting and am comfortable with but they find a big wallet more interesting than a personality so no it does not matter how much personality I have because then there will inevitably be some other "problem".  The fact also remains I get matched with people I do not find attractive, different pictures, suddenly the people are attractive and taken an interest....funny that when you say looks do not matter.

As for exciting evenings, very few dates I have had could be classified as such, irrespective of which version of myself I arrived as.

No what I need is the odd person to check in on me every few days, share what's going on in their life, ask me how I am, show some sort of interest, someone I can take some interest in. I do not care if they are single or not. I have reduced my "dating" ambition to that and no more. I have written off any possibility of physical interaction and any real sort of companionship.

That is the best I could hope for.

 

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Change what? I am quite happy being the person I am?

 

Change what you do, not who you are. You’ve gotten plenty of suggestions. You’ve confirmed that “looks first” venues such as most OLD sites and bars / clubs don’t work for you. So many of us have suggested letting those things go, and spending time on other things.
 

Trying new hobbies to see if you find something you enjoy. Joining mixed cycling, surfing or hiking groups (you’ve mentioned you enjoy these activities) to at the very least see if you can find some people you have more in common than the current group you seem to hang with. If you meet a woman you’re compatible with, that would be fine too. You could even see if you can find a debate club seeing as you enjoy debating so much. Your insistence on both trying to date and hang out with people you’re not compatible with seem counterintuitive, although I suspect you have a distinct fear of success (fear of intimacy), therefore pretending your an oddball and aren’t compatible with any other human being is a sort of defense mechanism.

[ZA Dater]

32 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Change what you do, not who you are. You’ve gotten plenty of suggestions. You’ve confirmed that “looks first” venues such as most OLD sites and bars / clubs don’t work for you. So many of us have suggested letting those things go, and spending time on other things.
 

Trying new hobbies to see if you find something you enjoy. Joining mixed cycling, surfing or hiking groups (you’ve mentioned you enjoy these activities) to at the very least see if you can find some people you have more in common than the current group you seem to hang with. If you meet a woman you’re compatible with, that would be fine too. You could even see if you can find a debate club seeing as you enjoy debating so much. Your insistence on both trying to date and hang out with people you’re not compatible with seem counterintuitive, although I suspect you have a distinct fear of success (fear of intimacy), therefore pretending your an oddball and aren’t compatible with any other human being is a sort of defense mechanism.

Just decided I am going to try be happy with what is. Most of my time is spent working which I guess is a good and bad thing, good because I can keep my mind focused off dating but bad because where is the living in that. Unfortunately the hiking club is the frequent of the older lady and my interest does not lie there. I am the odd ball everywhere I I just accept that, the degree differs. 

I have given up trying to explain myself to people around me, I wish they would just let me be, in fact most are doing just that now. I do not want to sit with people hearing about their dating life, I do not want to sit with women complaining about their partners, I am not interested in who is sleeping with who or what someones latest hot Tinder match looks like. I'd rather sit on my own eat my meal and be left alone. 

The truth of the matter i have had more meaningful help on  this forum than anyone around me has ever offered up. If life could be started over, I'd start mine over but seeing as I cant, I just endure this one and present a happy face to the world. Because if people really cared as much as they profess to do they, they'd actually portray me as someone nice, not someone who so deficient to be defined as a project. 

Sure, I can got to hiking club, nobody will engage with me, I can go to meet up and much the same thing happened. People are not interested. Elaine's words always come to mind "people make friends growing up, they much friends at university, its much much harder to have no friends late in life, people couple up, have kids and generally do not have time for single people to orbit around" I think of these words very often because they are true.

None of this takes away that I can care about others, I can taken an interest in their well being, I can be there when they need me. I'd rather feel good about what I have experienced than feel terrible about what I will never experience. 

Honestly, you go on a date when asked how long was your last relationship tell the person you have never had one.....which is honest but its not appreciated.

No people around me date people they adore, go out with people they find attractive, are loved by people they find attractive, they have companionship, people take an interest in them and sure they break up but there is always options for them. Through them I get to live the life I will never have but at least I can imagine how good it would be. At the end of the day not all of us can be so lucky to be loved. Those who are need to appreciate it.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Just decided I am going to try be happy with what is.

We both know this won’t last. Loneliness will push you to start the cycle again.