After TWO YEARS - he's married! *updated*

[RebeccaR]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It is always based on lies and deception.

True

[ExpatInItaly]

16 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Maybe they didn’t mean to cheat, although their bad choices certainly caused them to.

How does a cheater not mean to cheat? Cheating is a choice, not an accident. 

And this man misled her for two years. That was most definitely by design on his part. He meant it. This is not the same thing as a woman embarking on an affair with a man she knows is married from the very beginning. It's not the same thing as two people happening to fall in love even though one or both are committed to other people.  She hasn't really clarified what she even truly knows about him - his name, where he works, where he lives. It is unclear if she has ever been able to independently verify anything about him. 

As it stands, it appears OP doesn't know who she is really dealing with at all. Frankly, it looks like she doesn't want to know anymore because then that would force her to really evaluate what the hell she is thinking continuing to see him. The level of deception and lack of empathy or remorse this man displays is disturbing, and not something him divorcing his wife is going to take care of. 

She is absolutely fooling herself if she thinks this is going to end well for her. 

[RebeccaR]

I agree that he is a bad bet. But telling an OW that the MM was faking all his feelings in order to stalk her for sex is often at odds with her experience and causes her to disregard other good advice. I think it’s ok to acknowledge if there were some genuine feelings (albeit in an unhealthy situation) when someone is still deep in the fog.

Edited May 16, 2021 by RebeccaR

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, RebeccaR said:

I think it’s ok to acknowledge if there were some genuine feelings (albeit in an unhealthy situation) when someone is still deep in the fog.

The additional obvious point to make  is that the existence of genuine feelings means nothing in terms of having a healthy relationship with this person. But we can’t even get to the place of explaining this to an OW if we automatically tell her he’s a narcissistic predator, because she immediately stops listening to everything 

[Wiseman2]

43 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

 the only proof he wants to be with the OW

Unavailable people choose other unavailable people. It's that simple. 

Obviously the elephant in the room is the infidelity.

But it's more fun fantasizing about leaving boring humdrum lives and running off into the sunset together.

That's all it often is. Two unavailable people, living in a fantasyland.

People who cheat are as unavailable to thier affair partners as they are to their spouses.

It's just that the spouses and affair partners are both being duped.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

10 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

because she immediately stops listening to everything 

I don't think this is true. 

She doesn't seem to have immediately stopped listening. She herself said she is reading and taking some of it on-board even if she doesn't like what she's hearing, but it is evident that she is now ignoring her own good sense and is feeling defensive.

I would also argue that genuine feelings are a rather irrelevant construct here, simply because she doesn't genuinely know this man. She knows bits and pieces, but it's a house of cards. Not a real representation of who he is. Was he faking his attraction to and affection for her? No, likely not. Was it coming from a place of love? I would say no to that too, because love typically involves avoiding doing things you know will hurt your partner. This man fabricated large parts of his life and obscured others to suit his needs and desires. None of that was designed with OP's feelings in mind. 

So genuine feelings for her? I don't think so. Not beyond the superficial. 

[RebeccaR]

19 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

She doesn't seem to have immediately stopped listening. She herself said she is reading and taking some of it on-board even if she doesn't like what she's hearing

She’s playing games - canceling not because she wants to but in order to see how he reacts. Definitely still somewhere between the denial and bargaining stages 

[d0nnivain]

8 hours ago, LShalcy said:

Yes, of course I am devastated that he has lied to me for so long, but he couldn’t have been faking everything.

I just wanted to see what would happen if I canceled on him because I have only ever done it once or twice before.

I really do believe that we have something there.

It may not have started the right way, but I don’t want to end it with him and at this point, I probably won’t. I just want to have the conversation with him in person rather than over a text or a phone call. If, after that, he doesn’t tell me he’s leaving her, then I’ll have to move on.

He did fake most of it  & there is nothing there.  If there was something there, if you mattered to him, he would have filed for divorce long ago, not lied to you for 2 years.  You may have initially been innocent, not knowing he was married but he always knew & didn't care enough about you or his wife to be faithful to either of you.  

I'm glad you are coming around to being willing to leave him unless he divorces her. Unfortunately, you can't just accept his word for it.  I would not take him back, meet him or talk to him until he shows you a filed copy of a complaint for divorce.   

Years ago I dated a guy who was separated.  They had been apart for years before I met him but neither had the money to file or so he said.  Not the point.  After meeting me, he finally filed.  Courts were backed up & they were fighting over custody.  So one day he tells me that the divorce went through.  I said great congratulations.  When I asked for a copy of the Order of Divorce, he stalled & dragged his heals.  Finally I requested a copy from the Court & learned it was still pending. He lied.  I broke up with him that day for lying & playing me for a fool.  

[Acacia98]

2 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

I agree that he is a bad bet. But telling an OW that the MM was faking all his feelings in order to stalk her for sex is often at odds with her experience and causes her to disregard other good advice. I think it’s ok to acknowledge if there were some genuine feelings (albeit in an unhealthy situation) when someone is still deep in the fog.

This is sometimes true.

Sometimes the opposite true: telling the OP the MM loved her but was selfish (or whatever) gives her something to hold on to, so rather than ending things, she holds on because she believes he does love her, even if in a limited way...

I guess the approach that works in a given situation depends on who the OP is. Personally, I think I'd prefer the former approach  (the one you advocate for @RebeccaR) because I'm not the greatest fan of black and white thinking. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Acacia98

[BaileyB]

You have moved from shock to anger. 

Only, your anger is misplaced. You are angry at the people on this board. We offer some hard truths and they are hard to hear, only because they don’t support your romantic fantasies. That’s fine. You are also angry at his wife - she is an inconvenient truth that you want to dismiss, in much the same way that you tried to dismiss the red flags about the man. Ultimately, you are angry because she has what you want. But, she was deceived and betrayed in much the same way that you were. She deserves your empathy, not your anger. In truth, she deserves your sympathy because she is married to a man who has been living a double life. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, RebeccaR said:

She’s playing games - canceling not because she wants to but in order to see how he reacts. Definitely still somewhere between the denial and bargaining stages 

Agree, she is playing games with him. She is keeping him on the hot seat. She wants to see how he reacts to that. She is going to make him work for it. She wants him to not get what he wants. She wants to have some control here. There are many reasons why she cancelled the plan to meet. 

She is also moving through the stages of grief - moving between denial and bargaining. And in her most recent post, anger. It’s just misplaced. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This man fabricated large parts of his life and obscured others to suit his needs and desires.

To be fair, she is doing the same now too. She dismissed the warning signs because she didn’t want to see them. They didn’t suit her narrative, her plan for this relationship. In some ways, she created the relationship she wanted and she continues to try and do so by dismissing the reality of the situation. She is still clinging to the fantasy - “It must mean something. He couldn’t have been faking everything.” Part of this is refusing to acknowledge the presence of the wife. “In some way” the wife is there - OP continues to see herself as his primary relationship. As such, she can not think about the wife, she can not feel badly for her, she does not want to acknowledge her because she does not fit the story she has about this relationship... The relationship that she thought she had. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

People who cheat are as unavailable to thier affair partners as they are to their spouses.

It's just that the spouses and affair partners are both being duped.

There is no better example than this.

[ExpatInItaly]

15 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

To be fair, she is doing the same now too.

Absolutely, yes. 

My point was to emphasize that his man has never much care about OP's feelings, which is why I say his "genuine feelings" only run so deep. 

[RebeccaR]

Just now, ExpatInItaly said:

Absolutely, yes. 

My point was to emphasize that his man has never much care about OP's feelings, which is why I say his "genuine feelings" only run so deep. 

I agree. His “feelings” are real, but ultimately extremely superficial. She took these feelings for more than they were partly because she deliberately ignored signs that things weren’t what they seemed.

[BaileyB]

Just now, RebeccaR said:

I agree. His “feelings” are real, but ultimately extremely superficial. She took these feelings for more than they were partly because she deliberately ignored signs that things weren’t what they seemed.

I think it’s easy to project here, something that many women do when they are deeply in love with a married man. If she feels deeply, he must feel deeply too. It’s not hard to understand why OP could feel this way - like any good con man, he knew what she wanted to hear and he he said all the right words. Now that she knows the truth of the man, the truth being that she doesn’t know anything about the man to be true, one can not say with certainty that those feelings were real. To insist that they are, may be little more than projecting...

[ExpatInItaly]

1 minute ago, RebeccaR said:

I agree. His “feelings” are real, but ultimately extremely superficial. She took these feelings for more than they were partly because she deliberately ignored signs that things weren’t what they seemed.

Yes, agreed. 

OP, I hope you are still reading. And I hope you understand that at some point, you need to take accountability for your role in this. Whether that's your deliberate choice now to keep dating a married man, or your previous choice to ignore your gut feeling that something wasn't right - you weren't a passive bystander without any control whatsoever. 

That is not to suggest you knew the whole story or deserved to be lied to. But I do think you need to reflect on what sort of mindgames your played with yourself to justify sticking around when he was obviously being evasive and not telling you the whole story? A lot of women would have shown their boyfriend the door if they had still never seen the inside of his home after a couple months, let alone 2 years. That is unfathomable to me. You knew something was wrong, and I imagine you've wondered for a while if he is married. 

What other things did you not know about him? You have avoided answering that. Had you ever met any of his friends or family? Ever seen the house where he lives? Ever confirmed in some way where he works? Ever been connected on social media? 

What did he tell you when you wanted to visit his home? 

[RebeccaR]

I reread the first few pages. You met online and you had an immediate connection - did you meet on a dating site? Because a married man looking for a side piece is bad news and I would question my assumption from before that he had actual genuine feelings.

[elaine567]

I think any man looking for a side piece to fool, is likely to find such a woman in the single parent group.
Single women are used to men being always available, men who can see her at the drop of a hat, guys who can spend the week end, every week end if she wants. single women demand attention and get it.
Single mothers on the other hand are "busy", there are child care arrangements, jobs, dealing with the kids and the ex... and so she is not always available.
She has so much to fit in...
Excellent for a guy with a wife and family to hide...

[Stupidkupid]

48 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

I reread the first few pages. You met online and you had an immediate connection - did you meet on a dating site? Because a married man looking for a side piece is bad news and I would question my assumption from before that he had actual genuine feelings.

I asked this question twice and still no reply. And it is insinuated in another of the OPs replies. I think yes. Which means he was actively looking to cheat. Not we chatted on a forum and got on well. Not, we have similar interests in this Facebook group. But a married man who was on a dating website actively looking to fool his wife and ay least one other woman.

[RebeccaR]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:18 PM, LShalcy said:

I told him I would have to see other people and he told me no, I don’t have to go back on a dating site,that I can have more of him.

There it is

[Crazelnut]

LShalcy, you think people are being mean to you, but honestly, we are trying to save you from a whole lot of pain. We have been there. I have been there. Being the OW may seem exciting at first, but it becomes a soul-crushing, painful existence.  He will go home to his wife, he will spend holidays with her, and you will spend your precious life waiting on him to throw you a few breadcrumbs of attention. He won't leave his wife. He has no incentive -- he  knows you will stay in the role of OW.

I have to ask you -- why do you want to be with a man who consciously and intentionally deceived you for 2 years? Who cared/cares only for his desires, regardless of the impact to you? Why do you still want a man that selfish? He's awful!

[d0nnivain]

On 5/16/2021 at 12:14 AM, LShalcy said:

 And yes,  I know there is, in some way, a wife there, but I am so far removed from even thinking about her and their relationship and I’m sorry, but I’m not that concerned about her feelings. I don’t really care about them, to be honest.
* * * 

, I know this is a messed up situation, but every relationship is different, and I really do believe that we have something there. It may not have started the right way, but I don’t want to end it with him and at this point, I probably won’t. 

The above is where you lose people. 

Willful ignorance or not, when you didn't know that he was married, you weren't a cheater.  He lied to you.  But now when you dismiss the idea of his wife & act like you want to fight for him, claiming what you had was real when it was built on a lie for all these years, that is when you move from innocent victim who got played by the bad guy cheater to Homewrecker.  Your failure to be outraged enough at how he LIED to you for 2 YEARS & dump his sorry cheating butt for that irredeemable sin now makes you complicit  

People are questioning your character because no one sympathizes with the position you have chosen to stake out & the fact that you seem willing to carry on with this guy while he minimizes the weight of what he's done makes you seem almost as unethical as he is.  His wife is also a victim here.  Your refusal to even try to put yourself in her shoes, knowing the man broke the vows he took with her, makes you seem heartless.  You probably aren't.  You are probably in so much pain you have nothing left to grieve for someone else but understand this, because he cheated WITH  you, even if he divorces her to marry you, he will eventually cheat ON you.  This man has no integrity.  If you have any integrity, you need to get rid of him.  

[elaine567]

I believe LShalcy is lashing out because she is just so angry, about the situation she finds herself in. Frankly it is horrendous.
Her anger cannot be directed at the guy she loves and wants, so she directs her anger onto his wife, his child and anyone else who is getting in the way of a happy ending including posters on here.
Here she wanted sympathy,
She wanted posters to be on her side to say "There there. Of course he loves you. He will be yours. He will choose you. His wife should just bow out.
You deserve a happy ending... He is a good man..."
BUT that was fantasy thinking and the posters here do not buy any of it...
The purpose of the forum is not to pat people on the back, or to bash then,  but to use collective experience to try to give good sensible advice with the intention to avoid future heart ache.
Whish in essence is what has happened here.
Frustrated by the  responses, LShalcy has chosen to go on the defensive, which is maybe not surprising considering the huge shock she has suffered.
She wants  to return to "normal" where everything was hunky dory, but that is not possible as no doubt she will soon find out. 

[LShalcy]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

 

I believe LShalcy is lashing out because she is just so angry, about the situation she finds herself in. Frankly it is horrendous.
Her anger cannot be directed at the guy she loves and wants, so she directs her anger onto his wife, his child and anyone else who is getting in the way of a happy ending including posters on here.
Here she wanted sympathy,
She wanted posters to be on her side to say "There there. Of course he loves you. He will be yours. He will choose you. His wife should just bow out.
You deserve a happy ending... He is a good man..."
BUT that was fantasy thinking and the posters here do not buy any of it...

 

Yes I am just so, so, so angry and so lost everything does seem to be falling apart because I have been neglecting everything because of how I feel. I have been drinking more this weekend to try to find some peace of mind and when I tell him I’m so mad and so hurt he tells me that everything is the same, he is so happy whenever he is with me; please don’t go out with anyone else etc etc so it makes me feel like maybe I can just pretend everything is how it was before but it’s not. I didn’t answer him for a day and he sent me a bunch of texts and pictures asking what was wrong so I had to respond and the whole cycle started again. 

 

I’m sorry if anyone felt I was rude to them; it’s just, I know that this wasn’t only a sexual thing for either of us - you don’t develop a relationship just over sex and you wouldn’t spend two years talking and getting to know someone if it was only sex - I’ve had things like that in the past and this was in no way that. So for people to just assume there can be so feelings there makes me question everything and then since he’s acting like nothings wrong when I know it is- it’s so hard.

 

I have been trying to muster up some sympathy and/or empathy for the wife and I’m sorry I just can’t do it right now. All I feel is this intense rage and this anger that just overwhelms me at times. 

Again, I’m sorry if I came across as rude or uncaring.