After TWO YEARS - he's married! *updated*

[Crazelnut]

He WAS horrible to you! How can you say that? Do you acknowledge that he intentionally lied to you and deceived you? That is a pretty horrible thing to do to you. That is NOT love. 

And oh yeah, he's MARRIED. You have no future with him. He's not leaving his wife. If he was, he'd have flat out told you that when you were talking fantasy nonsense with him this weekend.

Do you want to be his dirty little secret for 2 more years?

[Allupinnit]

You're falling apart because he is your drug and you are addicted to him.  This type of addiction is worse than heroin withdrawal in some cases, you are literally sick.  I'll bet you aren't sleeping nor eating, and your entire being is consumed by thoughts of him, right?  This is you in the thick of the illness.  Incapable of operating normally.  This sounds poetic in trashy novels but your life is in chaos and out of your control.  You are thrashing about, vulnerable, and easily picked apart by wolves.  You need saving.

Does he have some magnificent penis?  You don't answer a lot of pointed questions regarding the nature of your affair.  I find it's what you're not saying here that is very telling.  

[BaileyB]

49 minutes ago, LShalcy said:

He wasn’t horrible to me.

He was horrible to you. He lied to you about his marital status. He intentionally went on a dating site and he built a relationship with you, knowing full well that he was not the man that you believed him to be.

Good men don’t do that to women. 

I understand that your daily experience with him is quite different, and with good reason. He wouldn’t have you in his bed or your images on his phone if he told you he had a devoted wife at home caring for his child. Con men are generally charming. They have a way with the words. They have the power of persuasion. They prey on hope. They find a weakness, and they exploit it.

It’s exactly what he is trying to do when he texts you to ask how your day was... He’s trying to con you into believing that he is something he is not. A wolf in sheep’s clothing. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by BaileyB

[PhoenixRising8]

9 hours ago, LShalcy said:

He wasn’t horrible to me. He took a genuine interest in learning things about me, checking up on me, seeming genuinely happy to be with me. I spent two birthdays (his) with him, two valentines days with him (I know that means nothing but still). Why would he not want to spend those days with his wife? Why, obviously make up some lie to spend those days with me? I wouldn’t see him for every holiday but I saw him for enough and yes, I was ignoring those things that made me pause and think and question.

you’re right that every call, text sets me back because he is just now texting, asking how my day was, asking about work, as if I’m not so hurt and devastated. 
 

i know he’s a good father and the idea of him being this liar and this horrible person is so alien to my experiences with him.

[redacted]

I am a former OW who met MM online.  I knew he was cheating and lying (which you NOW know) but I believed all the BS about bad marriage etc, etc, etc. 3 months later I wanted to end it because my conscience was getting the better of me, but he then kept me in line by giving me stories he would leave and he made a half hearted effort to do so but never quite succeeded. There was always a reason timing wasn't right. He was lying to his wife and now to me.  I won't bore you with all the gory details - my 100 page thread lays it all out, but a year later, after stringing me along and me letting him, my mental state was much like yours.  I could not focus on anything but him and the disbelief that he wasn't in fact genuine.  How could he not be?  I lost my job and 2 weeks later, it was over.  It came down to my saying 'I think it's time to call a spade a spade' and his simple response of 'yes it is'.  I spent several weeks literally catatonic, mainly resulting from what I had allowed him to do to my mental state and self respect.  I was lucky and pulled myself together and got another job in less than 3 months.  6 months later, he was back, stringing me along again, or trying to.  This time, although I heard him out, I was very cautious.  We were back together for about 6 weeks and then I pulled the plug.  Turns out that while he finally did separate, it was because his wife threw him out.  And surprise, surprise, there was another OW.  I spoke to his wife, and other OW several times.  Turns out, the wife was not what he made her out to be.  An the OW was considering taking him back, even knowing everything and believe me, there was a lot to tell.

It's been more than a year now and I am long over him.  I was mostly over him when we got back together but I hoped to prove to myself I wasn't wrong about him and his genuineness. I failed. What I will never likely get over is my stupidity and naivete.  Like you I doubted the good people on this board because after all, they didn't know him like I did.  They didn't know him at all.  Turns out, neither did I really.  Our stories are different, but there are parallels.  Like me, you are headed towards job loss if you continue down this trajectory.  Do yourself a favour and seek professional help and have that professional support your request for a leave from your job until you sort yourself out.  It may be the only way you save yourself and your career.  Your child deserves so much better than you are giving now.

After being burned, I have risen from the ashes (hence the user name - not my original one here) and I am better and stronger for it.  It is a closed chapter in my life, but the effects are lifelong.  You will never be the same again and the longer you stay in this, the worse it will be.

 

Take care.

Edited May 18, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[ExpatInItaly]

4 hours ago, LShalcy said:

He wasn’t horrible to me

Yes, he was horrible to you. You need to wake up. 

4 hours ago, LShalcy said:

i know he’s a good father

No. He used his own child as bait in a plot that could blow up her whole family. That is not what good fathers do. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

4 hours ago, LShalcy said:

I was ignoring those things that made me pause and think and question.

And what exactly were those things?

You haven't really answered that, except to say you've never been to his house and didn't spend holidays with him. 

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, LShalcy said:

. I spent two birthdays (his) with him, two valentines days with him (I know that means nothing but still). Why would he not want to spend those days with his wife? Why, obviously make up some lie to spend those days with me? I wouldn’t see him for every holiday but I saw him for enough and yes, I was ignoring those things that made me pause and think and question.

He is not stupid he was leading a double life, he HAD to convince you that what the two of you had was real.
You expected him  to spend significant events with you, as you were his one and only. So it was I guess easer to spend time with you and lie to his wife than the other way around.
By the very nature of the relationship he had with you, he needed to keep you on board, and unsuspecting.
He probably didn't need to work so hard with his wife, as she is going nowhere.
Cheating men are good liars - he had to work, he was staying with a mate, he needs space, he fabricates arguments and stomps out of the house, so he can get away...
His wife  may be used to him being out of the house, or maybe he bent over backwards to make it up to her,  remember he needs to keep her unsuspecting too...

Birthdays are interesting, how do you know it was actually his birthday or was that just a lie?
Even if it was the right date, he may still have celebrated his birthday with her on another day... apologising profusely...

I know you want to minimise and ignore the wife, but she was a very real and present part of his double life...
Men in affairs can be remarkably unimaginative, so you may need to consider that the things he does for you may be exactly the same as he does for her.
Many of these guys are conflict avoidant.
He tells you what you want to hear to make you feel special....
 He tells her what she wants to hear to make her feel special...

[Wiseman2]

Interestingly, he's the lying creep here but you seem to be getting beaten up.

Step back and reflect on what you want going forward now that the truth came out.

Keep in mind cheaters are their own special kind of lying animals, but don't take the heat for his lies. Just dump him.

[Starswillshine]

Let me give some insight on this type of man...

My ex-husband had a few chicks that he told he was divorced and single. Let me tell you a little something about him..... I found some notes one day of a book he wanted to write. The book was all about manipulating women. The big misconception is that men want to hit it and quit it, so to speak. One main point he made (and he was going to devote an entire portion of the book) was to make the woman feel he is interested in them. Ask a lot of questions. Get a lot of details. It does 2 things,  1) makes her feel important, like you care. Especially since most men do not care to listen about a woman go on and on. 2) you get all the information needed to cater your approach/plan to be the most effective to score her admiration, attention, sex, etc. 

We throw around psychopath a lot around here. Most people arent high on the spectrum. My ex husband was. The things you are saying are pretty close to my ex husband. And he has left nothing but destruction in the path of all the women he has conned over the years. And he will NEVER allow anyone to leave his life. It does not matter any ugly thing you say or do, he will ALWAYS act like nothing happened and keep with his happy self. And keep on pursuing. 

It is up to you to end this before you waste more days in your life. Yes, it is hard as hell... but you have to go through it to get to the other side. Don't try to ween yourself slowly. Just get it over with. Rip the darn bandaid off. 

 

[d0nnivain]

9 hours ago, LShalcy said:

He wasn’t horrible to me.

People are multi-faceted.   You are not an idiot.  You would not have stayed with a man who treated you poorly to your face.  But it's a weighted analysis -- him spending birthdays & holidays with you doesn't make up for him lying to you for two years about being MARRIED. 

Honestly I don't understand why you aren't just done & pi$$ed.  The second I found out a switch would have flipped in my heart & head.  That information would never allow me to look at him the same way again, ever.  He would be so ugly & undesirable in my eyes.  All I'd ever be able to see is the ugly lie & that he had so little respect for me that he thought he was entitled to use me & make a fool of me.  Rather then crying over what I "lost" I'd be beating myself up trying to figure out how I could have been soooooo stupid as to let some jerk pull the wool over my eyes for so long.

I really don't understand why you are defending him & continuing to accept his texts especially when they minimize his active & on-going deceit & contain no mention of the status quo changing.  Because this has been working for him so long -- you being his side piece -- he sees no reason why it shouldn't continue now that you know the truth.  He thinks you should just accept being second best.  I'd be practically homicidal in your shoes not weepy & non-functional.  

Find your self esteem & be done with him.   Seriously, anger is a much more productive emotion.  

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

The second I found out a switch would have flipped in my heart & head.  That information would never allow me to look at him the same way again, ever.  He would be so ugly & undesirable in my eyes.  All I'd ever be able to see is the ugly lie & that he had so little respect for me that he thought he was entitled to use me & make a fool of me.  Rather then crying over what I "lost" I'd be beating myself up trying to figure out how I could have been soooooo stupid as to let some jerk pull the wool over my eyes for so long.

I agree.

The saying “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” comes to mind. I would be so angry with him, I would never be able to look at him or listen to him without thinking about his deception and betrayal. I simply could not hold any love for this man in my heart anymore. And, I would be disappointed with myself... furious with myself because I had been so naive - I had ignored the warning signs.

I would also be sick to my stomach about those pictures and videos. It likely wouldn’t do anything, because he likely has multiple copies... but, I would be demanding that he delete them as soon as possible. You see those videos as a sign of love - he misses me so much, he watches my videos, I am so special and he loves me so much... Not true. As starswillshine says, he is likely celebrating the fact that he got you to make them. What a coup! I’m sure they are very exciting for him - they are proof that he has succeeded in earning your trust - he has you right where he wants you!  He has something that you can likely never get back. You now have to trust that he will not share them with the world. You have to trust a man who has purposefully deceived you for the last two years. That would make me very upset. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by BaileyB

[FMW]

To be fair to the OP, unless you've actually been in that situation, you don't know exactly what you would be feeling.  Of course we all want to think that we would just automatically shut the door and never look back, or even be in that position to begin with.     

BUT - that doesn't change that the advice that's being given is solid and the OP needs to take what's being said to heart.  No matter what she feels and how difficult it is, what she needs to do is stay away from him.  Hopefully she'll accept that very soon. 

[Starswillshine]

OP, I also understand the bargaining going on in your head. I did it, too. My ex-husband seemed to treat me amazingly, as well. He was very attentive, affectionate, and anything I could ever want, he was willing to give (so I thought). He showered me with admiration; he would tell everyone we were around how much he loved me, how lucky he was to have me, etc. 

So when I was hit with the fact that he had been having an affair, I was shocked. I tried really hard to move past it. When I found out he was still in contact with her, I was devastated... then found out she was not the only one... I, for a brief moment in time, tried to bargain with myself... that if I just ignore what happens when he is gone, I can still have my beautiful life. You see, my ex-husband is extremely successful (as many psychopaths are.. many Fortune 500 CEOs are psychopaths, for instance). I had all I could ever need and want materially. We had multiple children. Shared decades together. Homes, vacations, traveled the world, etc. Walking away, meant giving that all up. I had only stayed home with my kids... So I get it. But whereas my ex-husband was providing for me in many ways, what are you really getting out of this relationship? False pretenses of love? Attention? He isn't really giving you anything... just taking from you precious time and self worth... and giving lots of pain. 

Somethings that I have heard directly from my ex-husband:

- No person can ever deliver everything you want in another person. It would be impossible. So you have many people, in his case women, to fit those roles. I played the wife role. He wouldn't dare act in the manner with me as he did with his mistresses (in bed). I was the more adventurous one, and he just could not cross certain lines. When I heard some of the things he had did with his OW, I asked him about it... he said he just didn't feel comfortable pushing me in those ways because I was wife who he loves and respected, and it felt disrespectful to treat his wife and mother of his kids in those ways. All the OW that I know of are really different than me. He had to have the other side of a woman that he was not comfortable with me being. 

- Every person in his life is there to serve a purpose. If you cannot be of any service to him, he discards you. Period. He sees people as only means as, "What can they do for me." Love is not like this. Think about the things you do for your children. Sometimes we will wear ourselves out running in circles to provide and give to our children with absolutely nothing in return. That is love. Even in the case of your MM, and my ex-husband, kids are being used and to serve a purpose in their affairs. I thought my ex-husband was a good father, too... but good fathers don't use their children this way. It would be a boundary that would not be crossed. 

It took a long time for me to pull myself away from my ex-husband. Years. And thousands of dollars of therapy. And a couple near suicide attempts. These types of people will ruin you and take everything from you if you let him. Please, get out while it has only been 2 years... 

[d0nnivain]

11 minutes ago, FMW said:

To be fair to the OP, unless you've actually been in that situation, you don't know exactly what you would be feeling.  Of course we all want to think that we would just automatically shut the door and never look back, or even be in that position to begin with.    

I wasn't in the exact situation  I knew the guy I was dating was technically still married but he was legitimately separated . . had different addresses etc.  He filed for divorce but when he lied to me & told me the divorce had been granted when it wasn't, as soon as I found out that switch I talked about flipped.  When I saw him next, a few hours later, I calmly & coldly told him what I had sound out, that I was done, nothing he could do would change my mind & he had one week to get his stuff packed & out of my house / life.   I ended up giving him a few days extension to get the movers etc but that was a purely logistical issue.   I was so ice cold in my delivery & so dead inside that I practically gave myself & the dog frostbite. I think that was the most furious I had ever been in my whole life but it was like everything especially my heart turned to pure ice & it was way scarier & a lot more deadly then any white hot rage I'd ever experienced.    So yeah I know exactly what I would do in her shoes.  

[FMW]

7 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

So yeah I know exactly what I would do in her shoes.  

I appreciate your experience.  I've never been able to flip a switch that quickly unless it was a casual situation.  If I've really loved someone, I don't ever go completely cold.  I just aim for keeping them out of my life.  

[LShalcy]

46 minutes ago, FMW said:

I appreciate your experience.  I've never been able to flip a switch that quickly unless it was a casual situation.  If I've really loved someone, I don't ever go completely cold.  I just aim for keeping them out of my life.  

Thank you for this. Everyone is saying to just completely cut him off but it is not that easy because it wasn’t a causal situation (for me anyway, and he would tell me it wasn’t for him either). How can I just go from talking to someone practically all day, to never talking to them? He is carrying on like normal, even saying more than usual actually (I guess to get me to continue on as well). I can’t just shut that off. 

 

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

but good fathers don't use their children this way. It would be a boundary that would not be crossed. 

I don’t see anything wrong with him sending me pictures of him and his daughter together throughout the day. I didn’t see pictures of them playing with dolls and think, “now I definitely have to sleep with him!” He was showing me what he was doing with her, her Halloween costumes, playing dress up etc. I don’t see this as using his child as “bait” and I don’t think this shows he’s a bad father.  

 

12 hours ago, Allupinnit said:

You're falling apart because he is your drug and you are addicted to him.  This type of addiction is worse than heroin withdrawal in some cases, you are literally sick.  I'll bet you aren't sleeping nor eating, and your entire being is consumed by thoughts of him, right?  This is you in the thick of the illness.  Incapable of operating normally.  This sounds poetic in trashy novels but your life is in chaos and out of your control.  You are thrashing about, vulnerable, and easily picked apart by wolves.  You need saving.

Does he have some magnificent penis?  You don't answer a lot of pointed questions regarding the nature of your affair.  I find it's what you're not saying here that is very telling.  

Based on your definition of addiction (not eating, sleeping, all consuming thoughts), then I guess I am addicted but no need to be so callous about it. And no it’s not about a “magnificent penis” as you say, because if a woman just wants sex with someone (or multiple someone’s) it’s really not very hard to find that. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by LShalcy

[Starswillshine]

1 minute ago, LShalcy said:

don’t see anything wrong with him sending me pictures of him and his daughter together throughout the day. I didn’t see pictures of them playing with dolls and think, “now I definitely have to sleep with him!” He was showing me what he was doing with her, her Halloween costumes, playing dress up etc. I don’t see this as using his child as “bait” and I don’t think this shows he’s a bad father.  

He is using his daughter as a way to normalize himself. As a good father and good man. To mask the real person he is. 

[Allupinnit]

Just now, LShalcy said:

Thank you for this. Everyone is saying to just completely cut him off but it is not that easy because it wasn’t a causal situation (for me anyway, and he would tell me it wasn’t for him either). How can I just go from talking to someone practically all day, to never talking to them? He is carrying on like normal, even saying more than usual actually (I guess to get me to continue on as well). I can’t just shut that off. 

 

I don’t see anything wrong with him sending me pictures of him and his daughter together throughout the day. I didn’t see pictures of them playing with dolls and think, “now I definitely have to sleep with him!” He was showing me what he was doing with her, her Halloween costumes, playing dress up etc. I don’t see this as using his child as “bait” and I don’t think this shows he’s a bad father.  

 

Based on your definition of addiction (not eating, sleeping, all consuming thoughts), then I guess I am addicted but no need to be so callous about it. And no it’s not about a “magnificent penis” as you say, because if a woman just wants sex with someone (or multiple someone’s) it’s really not very hard to find that. 

I think that's where we are confused though - because it doesn't seem like it was much more than a sexual affair.  We've asked you sooooo many times about meeting friends, family, what his reason was for keeping you away from his house, but you skim over all of that and just say you can't walk away.  I for one don't think it's that easy to find magnificent sex from dating sites these days, and I also don't discount the incredible bond that it creates between people. 

[RebeccaR]

Assuming you were planning a future with this guy, knowing what you know now, would you actually want him around your kids? The thought of him (now a known stone-cold liar) playing a fatherly role with my own kids would be enough to turn me against him.

[RebeccaR]

3 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

think that's where we are confused though - because it doesn't seem like it was much more than a sexual affair.

They talked about things she was interested in, about how her day went, presumably about her kids as well as his daughter. She has no close friends or family. She was probably drinking in the attention and “caring”  he was showing her.

Curious though, OP, about whether you two talked about  future marriage or moving in together as adults who date for two years would normally discuss. My guess is no and this is one of the flags you ignored.

You still haven’t mentioned why you ignored all the flags.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, FMW said:

I appreciate your experience.  I've never been able to flip a switch that quickly unless it was a casual situation.  If I've really loved someone, I don't ever go completely cold.  I just aim for keeping them out of my life.  

To be fair, I think I would be a mess. It would take a long time and a lot of healing... a lot of tears and a lot of sadness... but, I know for a fact that I would never keep him. I’ve never been cheated on in this way, but I was mislead once and I ended the relationship. My own journey would be very different than how I would conduct myself with the man. I respect your opinion but I have no doubt that I would end this relationship on the spot, and then fall apart and take the time that was needed to pull myself back together. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

35 minutes ago, LShalcy said:

Everyone is saying to just completely cut him off but it is not that easy because it wasn’t a causal situation (for me anyway, and he would tell me it wasn’t for him either). How can I just go from talking to someone practically all day, to never talking to them?

Perhaps it’s just the wisdom of age, or perhaps it’s just my mother’s influence... I have a man that I love in my life. We just built a beautiful new home together. We do not have children. We are not married but it is definitely not casual. Still - he is in my life (and I am in his life) because we want the other to be. IF he was to cheat on me, I would have no problem selling this home and letting him go. Sure, it would hurt and I would miss him. But, this relationship (as much as I love him) does not mean more to me than my self respect, my own mental health and being. There-in lies the difference. When I was younger, I may have been more inclined to justify the situation and keep him around... not now. I trust myself to be ok without him. 

[Starswillshine]

As with Bailey... I am also in a relationship with a fabulous man. We are in the process of building our weekend home, future retirement home. I love him to pieces, but if I even caught a slight over step in my boundaries, he would be gone before he knew what hit him. 

[BaileyB]

41 minutes ago, LShalcy said:

I don’t see anything wrong with him sending me pictures of him and his daughter together throughout the day. I don’t see this as using his child as “bait” and I don’t think this shows he’s a bad father. 

It comes back to the intention. 

IF he was a regular Joe, and you were building an honest and legit relationship - there would be no problem. My partner sent me photos of himself and his son when we were dating. He had no intention other than to share his life...

You guy had the intention to deceive. And as such, in many ways, he created an image of himself that he wanted you to believe. Because his intention was not honest, his action can not be viewed in the same way. He was not just sharing stories of his life, he was using the photos and stories to support the idea that he was a good, and kind, and loyal father - a good, and kind, and loyal man. We now know that not to be true - given the way he has deceived and betrayed both you and his wife. As such, in the context of his intention to deceive, his decision to use his child to support your assertion that he is a good man and a good father is duplicitous. 

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

As with Bailey... I am also in a relationship with a fabulous man. We are in the process of building our weekend home, future retirement home. I love him to pieces, but if I even caught a slight over step in my boundaries, he would be gone before he knew what hit him. 

It doesn’t mean that I don’t love him dearly, because I do. We are very committed to each other. But - he has had the experience of losing himself in a bad marriage and a difficult divorce. I have just gained the wisdom of life experiences... We both know that people may come and go from your lives and life goes on... Would it be stressful and difficult to end the relationship - of course. But, there is no need to stay in a relationship that is destroying you - mentally, physically, emotionally. No person and no relationship is worth that, in my humble opinion.

Edited May 18, 2021 by BaileyB