After TWO YEARS - he's married! *updated*

[BaileyB]

38 minutes ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

And there it is too -  those who likes to cast stones, while lacking the ability to see that what the OP did (in the past) was bad, but she (and the  guy’s wife) are the ones who had been duped here.  And she is clearly having a hard time separating the person she thought she had a future with vs the person who lied to her -  it’s not always easy to reconcile immediately when they are one and the same.

Respectfully, I think people have very clearly said that both she and his wife were duped here (which is being generous, considering that she admits that there were red flags that she chose to ignore). Many have said that she is clearly having a hard time separating the person that she thought she had and the future that she envisioned with the reality that this person lied to her and mislead her for two years. While I personally don’t believe once a cheater, always a cheater... I do think it’s reasonable to say that someone who has not respected relationship boundaries in the past may be more accepting of another situation where boundaries are crossed - the precedent has been set. She has said little that demonstrates that she has learned from that experience and is making different, and if I may say healthier, choices for herself now. In fact, I absolutely believe what stupidkupid said - whether consciously or subconsciously, 

24 minutes ago, Stupidkupid said:

The problem is that, her mind had made an element of peace with it some time  ago which is why she is not cutting him off.

If anything, she seems to believe rather erroneously that he will chose to end his marriage and be with her. Again, past experience may be clouding this judgment because while women tend to do this (she may have done this, we do not know the circumstances around the end of her relationship with her children’s father and whether the affair contributed to the decision to split), men seldom leave their primary relationship for their affair partner. Deciding to say believing that he will leave his marriage would be a very unwise decision, indeed. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by BaileyB

[Stupidkupid]

31 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

 

If anything, she seems to believe rather erroneously that he will chose to end his marriage and be with her. Again, past experience may be clouding this judgment because while women tend to do this (she may have done this, we do not know the circumstances around the end of her relationship with her children’s father and whether the affair contributed to the decision to split), men seldom leave their primary relationship for their affair partner. Deciding to say believing that he will leave his marriage would be a very unwise decision, indeed. 

Indeed. All the stats back this up. But everyone believes they will be the exception and until they accept that exceptions are that for a reason, they are rare events, it's hard to move on.

[lana-banana]

On 5/4/2021 at 7:37 PM, LShalcy said:

I used to think people were overly dramatic when they talked about the devastation of something like this happening to them, but it’s a different kind of pain than physical pain and it’s too real.

Then why are you volunteering for more of it?

You are not a helpless damsel, nor a symbiotic parasite who needs him to survive. You have lived the vast majority of your life without this guy and you certainly can continue without him. Is this even about him at all, or the idea of just having a stable, committed relationship (which he never actually gave you)? How can you say you need him to tell you that "it's okay" when you know for a fact that it isn't? You knew something was wrong, you knew it wasn't a conventional relationship, and yet you stuck with it...why? Because you thought you could fool yourself, or that you could change him?

It is tough love time because you're out of the shock phase, and you're not a naive 22-year-old who can spend the next six months eating ice cream and crying. You have children who need you to be stable, strong, and capable. Your behavior is jeopardizing their well-being and very possibly your job. It's got to stop.

You need to call your EAP and schedule something immediately. This type of crisis situation is what they're made for, and they're free and confidential, so you have no excuse not to. I don't have anything else to say here; at this point, if you fail to help yourself and continue on with him, you have only yourself to blame.

Edited May 19, 2021 by lana-banana

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, lana-banana said:

You need to call your EAP and schedule something immediately. This type of crisis situation is what they're made for, and they're free and confidential

What is EAP?

[lana-banana]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

What is EAP?

An Employee Assistance Program - it's a confidential service that many employers have available (and I've seen it mentioned here so I assumed OP said she had one, but I could be mistaken) for emergency resources including counseling, financial help, family crises, etc. Regardless, the advice to get professional help immediately stands - this is a situation that needs experts and intensive counseling, not just advice from the internet.

Edited May 19, 2021 by lana-banana

[BaileyB]

41 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

An Employee Assistance Program - it's a confidential service that many employers have available (and I've seen it mentioned here so I assumed OP said she had one, but I could be mistaken) for emergency resources including counseling, financial help, family crises, etc. Regardless, the advice to get professional help immediately stands - this is a situation that needs experts and intensive counseling, not just advice from the internet.

EAP is a good option, if she has it. That would depend on her employer.

If not EAP, there are likely other options through an insurance program, for example. It’s difficult to imagine that she has no coverage, given that she is a teacher. It will depend on where she lives and how mental health services are funded.

Certainly, with covid we have seen a real emphasis on making mental health support accessible and available to people. 

I would say to you OP - if you have access, what is your hesitation? Why would you not reach out for help? You don’t have to do this on your own... as well intended as the strangers on the internet are - we recognize that you would benefit from support. This is a difficult situation.

Edited May 19, 2021 by BaileyB

[RebeccaR]

OP has a toddler, which means she has been in this “relationship” most of the child’s life. In terms of focusing on the toddler, now would be a good time (better late than never) for therapy and taking a break from romantic relationships of all types. Starting over with a new man is not the best move right now.

[vla1120]

14 hours ago, LShalcy said:

I need to hold it together with him because I can’t start all over with someone else 🙁.

Ugh. My husband died on June 13th, 2020. Our relationship wasn't great for the first 5 years and was fraught with a lot of conflict and unhappiness. But for the last six months of his life, when I was caring for him and had to bring in hospice care at home, it was golden. I wish the first 5 years could have been as good. Watching him deteriorate and holding his hand while he passed from this life was the hardest thing I have ever done. I didn't get the option to "hold it together with him because I can't start all over with someone else." 

You need to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, get your head back in your job and mothering responsibilities, and grieve the loss of this sham of a relationship. Reach down and find the strength.

[Cookiesandough]

Because you “can’t start over with someone else” sounds like a horrible reason to stay in a Rship. 

[FMW]

I've been through the end of a long marriage.  I've been through the end of an intense three year affair with someone I really loved.  And I'm a lot older than you.  Trust me - you really can start over again.  Changing course and even restarting different areas of our lives is part of life.  If you give yourself the opportunity to heal and eventually connect with the right guy, you'll wonder why you wasted so much time and energy on this.

It's not going to be easy, it hurts, and you will sometimes feel miserable and sad.  But the sooner you get him out of your life the sooner you start healing and will be ready for a relationship with someone who is available and truly cares about your well-being (his involvement with you while having a wife means he does not care about what is best for you.  His care for you was, and is, contingent on what he wants).  

It's ok to still have feelings for him, regardless of whether or not everyone understands how that can be.  But that absolutely doesn't mean you have to keep seeing him.  With a little distance and time things will be clearer.  I really hope you'll give yourself the opportunity to find that out for yourself. 

[Timshel]

3 hours ago, vla1120 said:

 I didn't get the option to "hold it together with him because I can't start all over with someone else." 

You need to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, get your head back in your job and mothering responsibilities, and grieve the loss of this sham of a relationship. Reach down and find the strength.

I was also a widow via, though not in an unhappy marriage. I recognize the strength and the edge that comes with this. Every person is different.

[ExpatInItaly]

6 hours ago, Stupidkupid said:

OP is cherry picking responses somewhat and has avoided answering some pertinent questions about her own part in this.

That is not to say I am unsympathetic, but there are some things here that are odd. 

My position is that OP knew, subconsciously, MM was in a relationship of some kind all along. All the signs were there. She made an active choice to supress the knowledge (through fear,loneliness and lack of self esteem) but it became too obvious to ignore when she finally confronted.

I agree with the above, especially the bolded. 

I have asked the same fairly simple questions a few times and thus far, she has not answered them. I have to conclude that she's known (implicitly and deep-down) about his marital status for a while and has chosen to look the other way. 

[Timshel]

5 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

 I have to conclude that she's known (implicitly and deep-down) about his marital status for a while and has chosen to look the other way. 

Of course, but each poster must be taken at face value. LShalcy needed us to think she only just knew. It's her journey.

[ExpatInItaly]

3 minutes ago, Timshel said:

Of course, but each poster must be taken at face value. LShalcy needed us to think she only just knew. It's her journey.

Well, yes. That was my point, in fact. 

 

[Timshel]

27 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Well, yes. That was my point, in fact. 

 

But it wasn't my point. No bother I agree with you. I wish OP well.

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Because you “can’t start over with someone else” sounds like a horrible reason to stay in a Rship. 

An excellent point C&D. It sounds like OP has been through a lot, and may have had a dry spell and been quite lonely. All valid reasons to want someone. But - this?!? 

There must be something better out there than a relationship founded on a 2 year deception from the outset. Even if there was some denial/willful looking the other way on her part.

Edited May 19, 2021 by mark clemson

[elaine567]

To some anybody is better than nobody.
I have a feeling she is caught up in the sex, she is the fantastic lay, the star of the videos, the sex provider....
His wife stands no chance against her...

However, it seems there is no mention here of him being unhappy or of him leaving.
It seems he is one of those who is perfectly happy managing two women...

[Prudence V]

On 5/19/2021 at 3:24 AM, LShalcy said:

I wanted that relationship with him, that feeling of being safe whenever I was with him, that feeling of security when his car pulled up.

I’m genuinely interested in what you want from this - now, and longer-term. I’m not going to jump on you for being the OW. I was also the OW, for longer than 2 years, and although we’ve been happily married now for far longer than the A part of our R, I’m not one of those reborn fOW who walk around preaching he’ll and damnation to anyone else who ventures down that road. It worked out great for me - and while I won’t recommend it to everyone, because it usually doesn’t work out great, I won’t condemn anyone who makes an informed choice that this is what they want or need at a particular time of their life. 
 

But I’m not sure that’s where you are. If you are choosing a p/t relationship with a guy who you know is married, and are prepared to overlook his calculated and sustained dishonesty in lying to you about this for two years, because that is the kind of relationship you want, with he kind of person you want to spend time with, fair enough. You’ve had your own history of infidelity, it’s clearly not a dealbreaker for you, and you’ve not expressed any unhappiness about the amount of time, interest and commitment you’ve been getting from him before this great revelation. So it’s possible that this is what you want - but you haven’t come out to say that. What you said is you want *him*, not that you want the kind of R he’s offering. 
 

If you want the kind of R he’s offering, and can overcome the deceit (or suppress it, like several BW manage to do to keep their M intact) then go ahead. He’s happy enough to snap back into how things were, probably indefinitely, so if that works for you, it’s there for your taking. But if you are hoping for something else - a R that develops into something more full-time, possibly even seeing a family of his kid and yours, and him coming home to you each day... Realistically, that’s not going to happen. He is not offering that to you, and that’s not what he wants. What he wants is what he has now - and that’s what he’s offering. 
 

So that is your choice. Not a “what if” scenario where one day he leaves the BW, to be “yours”. What you currently have - or, something else with someone else, while he replaces you with someone else who’s happy with what he’s offering. It might not be what you envisioned from this, but it’s what’s possible, and it’s a choice you have. He’s not forcing you - no one is forcing you - you are the one who gets to choose: but those are your choices. You can’t choose something else, because that’s not on the table. Think about what you want, and then choose the one that fits. 

 

[LShalcy]

7 hours ago, Prudence V said:

So that is your choice. Not a “what if” scenario where one day he leaves the BW, to be “yours”. What you currently have - or, something else with someone else, while he replaces you with someone else who’s happy with what he’s offering. It might not be what you envisioned from this, but it’s what’s possible, and it’s a choice you have. He’s not forcing you - no one is forcing you - you are the one who gets to choose: but those are your choices. You can’t choose something else, because that’s not on the table. Think about what you want, and then choose the one that fits. 

 

If it happened for you, why is impossible to happen for anyone else?

[PhoenixRising8]

It isn't impossible but in your case it seems it is highly unlikely. We have tried to provide logical and rational, rather than emotional interpretation of the state of affairs.  It is your choice ultimately, how you wish to see it: through the lens clouded by emotion, or on the basis of fact.  He lied to you for 2 years, by omission, about his marital status.  I have not seen you say he has even told you he is planning to leave his wife to be with you, since the big revelation.  Instead, he is just acting as though everything is as it was, pre-admission meanwhile you are in bits.  This leads us to conclude that it will continue as an affair and not an out in the open primary relationship and that you are likely living on 'hopium', rather than real possibility. It's your choice whether you look at reality or continue with the fantasy. 

[Crazelnut]

1 hour ago, LShalcy said:

If it happened for you, why is impossible to happen for anyone else?

It isn't going to happen for you. First of all, your married "BF" concealed the fact that he was married. His goal was to keep you in the dark and on the side. That is not the behavior of a man who wants to be with you forever.

Secondly, since the big reveal, he has not once said he will leave his wife for you. He's done the opposite. He's tried to smooth things over and get them back to how he likes them -- wife at home and you on the side. 

A MM who leaves his wife for the mistress doesn't hide his marriage, and he leaves pretty much right away. Your "prize" isn't doing that. He wants you on the side. Are you okay with that?

Edited May 20, 2021 by Crazelnut

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, LShalcy said:

If it happened for you, why is impossible to happen for anyone else?

As odd as it sounds, I believe that relationships that transition from affairs to legitimate relationships are built on honesty, transparency, trust, and commitment. 

I say that sounds odd because affairs involve, by their very definition, deception and dishonesty. The difference being, the person who doesn’t have the full truth is usually the spouse, not the affair partner.  

Furthermore, people who are serious about legitimizing their relationship with their affair partner tend to be decisive. They are willing to accept the consequences and they do what is required to be in the relationship they want to have. I have a friend who met a man, they had an affair, and they now have a legitimate relationship. Within six months of their meeting, both individuals had separated from their spouses. The hurt was immense - for the individuals involved, their spouses, their children. Unless it has changed recently, her affair partner lost his relationship with his daughter. Still, they knew what they wanted and they made it happen. 

As I’ve said before, they key difference here is that he had absolutely no problem keeping his marital status from you for two years. That does not speak to a man who is serious about leaving his marriage to form a legit relationship with his affair partner. That speaks to a man who wants to have two women  - and he is willing to lie to both women to do so. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by BaileyB

[RebeccaR]

4 hours ago, LShalcy said:

If it happened for you, why is impossible to happen for anyone else?

Unlike the other responses (which I fully agree with), I have a simpler answer:

Could you win the powerball lottery? Yes. Is it likely? No, it’s extremely unlikely.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

On 5/18/2021 at 11:12 AM, LShalcy said:

don’t see anything wrong with him sending me pictures of him and his daughter together throughout the day. I didn’t see pictures of them playing with dolls and think, “now I definitely have to sleep with him!” He was showing me what he was doing with her, her Halloween costumes, playing dress up etc. I don’t see this as using his child as “bait” and I don’t think this shows he’s a bad father.  

LShalcy, I have been reticent about posting further on your thread, because after what I went through as an OW plus all therapy and hard work I've done myself since, I typically refuse to chase after anyone to take my assistance when they don't value it. I am totally done with being undervalued, deceived, and used. When someone rejects my advice, I see that they did not value my effort, time, and contribution in an attempt to help them benefit from learning from my previous loss so they could lose less.

I am slightly encouraged that you are possibly open, albeit only apparently a little, to the idea this guy is manipulating you. He is! I guarantee it. I would bet my last dollar that EVERYTHING he does/says is just manipulations although you refuse to entertain that notion, and you are CHOOSING to self-destruct because of that. Some day you will see the very grave error you are making here. I hope for your and your children's sake you will see it sooner than later.

All that being said, alas, here again I point out to you what should be obvious to you: she's not "his" child so much as she's "their" child, part of a whole life 'they' have together that does not include you. Have you considered it was probably his wife who took 'their' daughter shopping for the dolls and Halloween costume which you see in those pictures? Have you considered that it's a very real possibility that she might have been there with them, playing with them, when he took those photos? Have you considered that perhaps his wife is in some of those photos but he just didn't send the ones with his wife in them to you?

Are you now 'getting the picture?' The true picture, which is that you are in love with a fantasy, ONLY A FANTASY, and not the man he truly is. He created a fiction, a very deep deception, which you have believed. It's a fiction in which you are playing a role, but not the role you think you have. You DO NOT KNOW this man. What you know is the fiction he created for you.

You may think people here are harsh. I can speak for myself when I tell you my motive in writing this is to try to shake you back into reality, YOUR REALITY, which is where you need to be before you lose everything you have worked for and hold near and dear. That loss is what is happening right now!

One huge issue you are facing is that your reality is so painful for you that you are choosing to avoid it by keeping yourself stuck in this fantasy. Meanwhile all the truly good things you have in your life, like your job and your children, are getting flushed down the toilet due to your neglect, for your refusal to re-engage in reality, choosing this fantasy instead. This is how your choices parallel a drug addict--they throw away everything, including the most precious gifts they've ever been given (being their own children) to chase a high. You are doing exactly that--chasing a high and throwing everything else away.

Btw, what are you teaching your children about their own self-worth? That they are not as valuable to their mother, not as valuable as this man who has degraded and devalued their mother so horribly, that they are worth less than that guy. Obviously, they don't matter to you as much as you getting your fix. They are as disposable to you as you are to this man. You are putting most of your energy into him over into your kids, your job, and whatever else. You value him (the fantasy version of him) over everything else! Your poor children deserve better.

His child also deserves better than a father who uses her as a pawn to manipulate women in his nasty little games of power and control. He used his daughter as a prop to suck you in further, further into the fantasy he created so that he could enjoy his power over you. He enjoys knowing you are so sucked in, and that he has so much power over you. I 1000000000000% believe you will tell yourself I'm wrong, but I totally know I'm right BECAUSE I LIVED IT! 

You need to get yourself straightened out and you need help to do it because you are very, very lost right now. Alice in Wonderland seems fitting. At the very least, get some help for your kids. 

I feel angry at you and I feel angry for you, because I know how totally scewed up this situation is. I know because I was you once. I'm angry at you for doing this to yourself, your children, your job, and anything else that deserve better from you while you are chasing this fantasy and the addictive high that goes with it.

I feel so sorry to myself that I put myself through it, that I allowed myself to be used just like you are doing now, but I am grateful for all I learned. YOU NEED TO GET OUT OF THIS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  GET OUT NOW! WAKE YOURSELF UP! THIS GUY IS THE LOWEST OF THE LOW! HE SUCKS! GET RID OF THE FANTASY AND COME INTO THE LIGHT! 

Edited May 21, 2021 by HadMeOverABarrel

[NYAG]

1 hour ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

LShalcy, I have been reticent about posting further on your thread, because after what I went through as an OW plus all therapy and hard work I've done myself since, I typically refuse to chase after anyone to take my assistance when they don't value it. I am totally done with being undervalued, deceived, and used. When someone rejects my advice, I see that they did not value my effort, time, and contribution in an attempt to help them benefit from learning from my previous loss so they could lose less.

I am slightly encouraged that you are possibly open, albeit only apparently a little, to the idea this guy is manipulating you. He is! I guarantee it. I would bet my last dollar that EVERYTHING he does/says is just manipulations although you refuse to entertain that notion, and you are CHOOSING to self-destruct because of that. Some day you will see the very grave error you are making here. I hope for your and your children's sake you will see it sooner than later.

All that being said, alas, here again I point out to you what should be obvious to you: she's not "his" child so much as she's "their" child, part of a whole life 'they' have together that does not include you. Have you considered it was probably his wife who took 'their' daughter shopping for the dolls and Halloween costume which you see in those pictures? Have you considered that it's a very real possibility that she might have been there with them, playing with them, when he took those photos? Have you considered that perhaps his wife is in some of those photos but he just didn't send the ones with his wife in them to you?

Are you now 'getting the picture?' The true picture, which is that you are in love with a fantasy, ONLY A FANTASY, and not the man he truly is. He created a fiction, a very deep deception, which you have believed. It's a fiction in which you are playing a role, but not the role you think you have. You DO NOT KNOW this man. What you know is the fiction he created for you.

You may think people here are harsh. I can speak for myself when I tell you my motive in writing this is to try to shake you back into reality, YOUR REALITY, which is where you need to be before you lose everything you have worked for and hold near and dear. That loss is what is happening right now!

One huge issue you are facing is that your reality is so painful for you that you are choosing to avoid it by keeping yourself stuck in this fantasy. Meanwhile all the truly good things you have in your life, like your job and your children, are getting flushed down the toilet due to your neglect, for your refusal to re-engage in reality, choosing this fantasy instead. This is how your choices parallel a drug addict--they throw away everything, including the most precious gifts they've ever been given (being their own children) to chase a high. You are doing exactly that--chasing a high and throwing everything else away.

Btw, what are you teaching your children about their own self-worth? That they are not as valuable to their mother, not as valuable as this man who has degraded and devalued their mother so horribly, that they are worth less than that guy. Obviously, they don't matter to you as much as you getting your fix. They are as disposable to you as you are to this man. You are putting most of your energy into him over into your kids, your job, and whatever else. You value him (the fantasy version of him) over everything else! Your poor children deserve better.

His child also deserves better than a father who uses her as a pawn to manipulate women in his nasty little games of power and control. He used his daughter as a prop to suck you in further, further into the fantasy he created so that he could enjoy his power over you. He enjoys knowing you are so sucked in, and that he has so much power over you. I 1000000000000% believe you will tell yourself I'm wrong, but I totally know I'm right BECAUSE I LIVED IT! 

You need to get yourself straightened out and you need help to do it because you are very, very lost right now. Alice in Wonderland seems fitting. At the very least, get some help for your kids. 

I feel angry at you and I feel angry for you, because I know how totally scewed up this situation is. I know because I was you once. I'm angry at you for doing this to yourself, your children, your job, and anything else that deserve better from you while you are chasing this fantasy and the addictive high that goes with it.

I feel so sorry to myself that I put myself through it, that I allowed myself to be used just like you are doing now, but I am grateful for all I learned. YOU NEED TO GET OUT OF THIS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  GET OUT NOW! WAKE YOURSELF UP! THIS GUY IS THE LOWEST OF THE LOW! HE SUCKS! GET RID OF THE FANTASY AND COME INTO THE LIGHT! 

I've been there and oh my this is sooooo accurate. Every word.