After TWO YEARS - he's married! *updated*

[Naivewomen]

7 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

LShalcy, I have been reticent about posting further on your thread, because after what I went through as an OW plus all therapy and hard work I've done myself since, I typically refuse to chase after anyone to take my assistance when they don't value it. I am totally done with being undervalued, deceived, and used. When someone rejects my advice, I see that they did not value my effort, time, and contribution in an attempt to help them benefit from learning from my previous loss so they could lose less.

I am slightly encouraged that you are possibly open, albeit only apparently a little, to the idea this guy is manipulating you. He is! I guarantee it. I would bet my last dollar that EVERYTHING he does/says is just manipulations although you refuse to entertain that notion, and you are CHOOSING to self-destruct because of that. Some day you will see the very grave error you are making here. I hope for your and your children's sake you will see it sooner than later.

All that being said, alas, here again I point out to you what should be obvious to you: she's not "his" child so much as she's "their" child, part of a whole life 'they' have together that does not include you. Have you considered it was probably his wife who took 'their' daughter shopping for the dolls and Halloween costume which you see in those pictures? Have you considered that it's a very real possibility that she might have been there with them, playing with them, when he took those photos? Have you considered that perhaps his wife is in some of those photos but he just didn't send the ones with his wife in them to you?

Are you now 'getting the picture?' The true picture, which is that you are in love with a fantasy, ONLY A FANTASY, and not the man he truly is. He created a fiction, a very deep deception, which you have believed. It's a fiction in which you are playing a role, but not the role you think you have. You DO NOT KNOW this man. What you know is the fiction he created for you.

You may think people here are harsh. I can speak for myself when I tell you my motive in writing this is to try to shake you back into reality, YOUR REALITY, which is where you need to be before you lose everything you have worked for and hold near and dear. That loss is what is happening right now!

One huge issue you are facing is that your reality is so painful for you that you are choosing to avoid it by keeping yourself stuck in this fantasy. Meanwhile all the truly good things you have in your life, like your job and your children, are getting flushed down the toilet due to your neglect, for your refusal to re-engage in reality, choosing this fantasy instead. This is how your choices parallel a drug addict--they throw away everything, including the most precious gifts they've ever been given (being their own children) to chase a high. You are doing exactly that--chasing a high and throwing everything else away.

Btw, what are you teaching your children about their own self-worth? That they are not as valuable to their mother, not as valuable as this man who has degraded and devalued their mother so horribly, that they are worth less than that guy. Obviously, they don't matter to you as much as you getting your fix. They are as disposable to you as you are to this man. You are putting most of your energy into him over into your kids, your job, and whatever else. You value him (the fantasy version of him) over everything else! Your poor children deserve better.

His child also deserves better than a father who uses her as a pawn to manipulate women in his nasty little games of power and control. He used his daughter as a prop to suck you in further, further into the fantasy he created so that he could enjoy his power over you. He enjoys knowing you are so sucked in, and that he has so much power over you. I 1000000000000% believe you will tell yourself I'm wrong, but I totally know I'm right BECAUSE I LIVED IT! 

You need to get yourself straightened out and you need help to do it because you are very, very lost right now. Alice in Wonderland seems fitting. At the very least, get some help for your kids. 

I feel angry at you and I feel angry for you, because I know how totally scewed up this situation is. I know because I was you once. I'm angry at you for doing this to yourself, your children, your job, and anything else that deserve better from you while you are chasing this fantasy and the addictive high that goes with it.

I feel so sorry to myself that I put myself through it, that I allowed myself to be used just like you are doing now, but I am grateful for all I learned. YOU NEED TO GET OUT OF THIS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  GET OUT NOW! WAKE YOURSELF UP! THIS GUY IS THE LOWEST OF THE LOW! HE SUCKS! GET RID OF THE FANTASY AND COME INTO THE LIGHT! 

Well said! I was there too and it's very much a hard-core addiction. One that takes patience, self love, self care for yourself. It's NOT at all easy. Many here were in the same boat as you! You have to WANT to do better for yourself and your children! Your mentally and physically in a bad place. So many posters are here to provide you with REAL information, please keep rereading the tough ones over and over. This forum saved my life! While I will always feel like I'm a recovering addict I chose to NOT live in fantasy as amazing and temporary as that feels! Your wasting valuable time on hope.

[Prudence V]

17 hours ago, LShalcy said:

If it happened for you, why is impossible to happen for anyone else?

It is not “impossible for anyone else”. However, it is unlikely - statistics show this, as well as many of the stories here. “Happy ever after” outcomes, while not impossible, are rare. Why wouldn’t they be? That’s how it works with most dating relationships, too - few lead to “happy ever after “, and most lead to breakups. 
 

But in your case, I think even “unlikely” is generous. I think there are several factors here. 
1) he doesn’t want that. He has the married-with-kids thing, and he’s not happy with that. Why else would he have been on a dating site, looking for something else? He wants married-with-kids-plus-girlfriend - what he has now. 
2) he’s keen to get back to “how things were”, before you found out. That’s what he wants. He doesn’t want you as wife, he wants you as GF. He’s made that very very clear. 
3) he set out to deceive you. It wasn’t accidental. He doesn’t believe you are worth the truth - which shows he doesn’t respect you. If he doesn’t respect you, why would he want you as a partner? He already has one of those at home - if he’s going to “trade up”, it needs to be someone he believes is better than what he has. He’s not treating you as if he thinks you’re better than what he has - he’s treating you with the same disrespect he shows his BW. 
4) he’s not only never said he wants to leave his BW, leave his family, leave his M, for you - he’s demonstrated that with his actions. You might wish it different, but he doesn’t. You can’t love him into submission on this. If he doesn’t want it, it’s not going to happen. And all the evidence shows that he doesn’t want this. 
 

Since you ask about why your situation is different from mine, I’ll fill in some background.

1) he never lied to me. To this day, nothing he said has ever been shown to be a lie. 
2) he put me first. I was never in any doubt what I meant to him, and where I stood in his life. I never got “crumbs”. 
3) the relationship never made me feel desperate, or enraged, or destroyed my dignity. It built me up. I was proud to be with him, and he with me. I didn’t find myself unable to do my work, or care for my kids, because of my R. I felt energised, engaged, enlivened. 
4) when we fell in love, it was mutual. We both wanted it. I wasn’t begging him to love me, or want me, or be with me. We both decided we wanted to be together, and we both knew it was mutual. I didn’t have to pretend he wanted me like I wanted him. 
5) we made it happen. Once we decided we wanted to be together, we both got on with what we needed to do. He told his BW. He left. He got a D. I did what I needed to do. We moved in together.

6) he had support. We were never a secret (aside from the BW). His family knew, and supported the R. So did his friends, colleagues, etc. People were happy for us. I was welcomed into the family. 
 

I know how difficult it is for most people, with even a single factor misaligned creating a lot of difficulty and skewing the outcome to failure. You don’t seem to have any factors in your favour, so I’m interested in why you think your chances of a successful outcome are so good? 

[LShalcy]

6 hours ago, Prudence V said:

he set out to deceive you. It wasn’t accidental. He doesn’t believe you are worth the truth - which shows he doesn’t respect you. If he doesn’t respect you, why would he want you as a partner? He already has one of those at home - if he’s going to “trade up”, it needs to be someone he believes is better than what he has. He’s not treating you as if he thinks you’re better than what he has - he’s treating you with the same disrespect he shows his BW. 

I think at first, we both weren’t expecting anything. So, I assume, yes, he was looking for a causal fling but I also wasn’t looking for a husband. But, as time progressed, it turned into more. Yes, I’ve mentioned some of the red flags that I’ve ignored, but just as I knew there were red flags l, I also knew that this relationship had become more than just a fling. This is a man who talked about how our kids would look and took no precaution on preventing that outcome if it happened (I didn’t either). This is a man who I talked to everyday, all day and when we see each other, that feeling of anticipation and eagerness is there for the both of  us, all the time. No one is that great of an actor. And if a man just wants sex, same for a woman, that’s not hard to come by and you don’t build bonds with your FWB.
 

as a woman you have that instinct when someone is falling in love with you even before they say it, just as you know when you’re falling in love with someone before you say it. And I’m not begging him to do anything.

Yes, of course, he lied to me and I'm not downplaying that despite what some of you may think, but I do believe him when he says he didn’t intend for this, and just didn’t know how to tell me after things had changed for us. And I didn’t stop seeing him despite knowing something was up because we had such a good connection. And no, I did not know he was married.
 

So to reiterate, I think it started as a casual fling for us both, but then as some relationships do, stronger feelings developed on both parts. Yes he has a wife, but I also know what it’s like to be conflicted and be in a relationship with one person but wanting another person (and even then, it wasn’t like this) and not knowing how to end one relationship for another. I’m not saying we will definitely have a “happily ever after”, because yes I know it’s rare when things started how they did, but I’m having that talk with him and I’m going to take it from there. It’s been tortuous not seeing him but I want him to miss me and I want to see him when I feel I can talk without crying and making a fool of myself so I told him next week. I’m preparing what I’m going to say and preparing for if he tells me he’s not leaving her. 

6 hours ago, Prudence V said:

You don’t seem to have any factors in your favour, so I’m interested in why you think your chances of a successful outcome are so good? 

 

As I mentioned above, I’m not saying that we are going to have a happily ever after, but I’m saying that sometimes things happen that you don’t expect and I think that’s what happened here for the both of us. If he were my husband and I were to see these text exchanges between him and another woman, I would know he loves her and cares about her and I would be heartbroken. But I didn’t cause that heartbreak. 

7 hours ago, Prudence V said:

we made it happen. Once we decided we wanted to be together, we both got on with what we needed to do. He told his BW. He left. He got a D. I did what I needed to do. We moved in together.

How long into your affair was this? Because although you make it sound like a fairy tale, it was an affair when it started, wasn’t it?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Just read your most recent post...

Oh OP, you are a conman's wet dream. A con barely even has to work at it because you are doing most of the work for them/him. You even defend the con's abuse of you.

Well, good luck to you. I can see you are lightyears away from sound advice and sensible reason. I'm not even being cynical.

[LShalcy]

2 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Just read your most recent post...

Oh OP, you are a conman's wet dream. A con barely even has to work at it because you are doing most of the work for them/him. You even defend the con's abuse of you.

Well, good luck to you. I can see you are lightyears away from sound advice and sensible reason. I'm not even being cynical.

What abuse am I defending? And what abuse was there? 

Edited May 22, 2021 by LShalcy

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, LShalcy said:

I do believe him when he says he didn’t intend for this

He was a married man on a dating site - what exactly do you think he was looking for... whatever it was, his intentions were not good.

1 hour ago, LShalcy said:

as time progressed, it turned into more. Yes, I’ve mentioned some of the red flags that I’ve ignored, but just as I knew there were red flags l, I also knew that this relationship had become more than just a fling.

For you. It became more than a fling for you. He is still a married man cheating with a woman he met on a dating site. 

1 hour ago, LShalcy said:

This is a man who talked about how our kids would look and took no precaution on preventing that outcome if it happened (I didn’t either). This is a man who I talked to everyday, all day and when we see each other, that feeling of anticipation and eagerness is there for the both of  us, all the time. No one is that great of an actor. And if a man just wants sex, same for a woman, that’s not hard to come by and you don’t build bonds with your FWB.

Read this site. One married man bought his affair partner an engagement ring. Yes, people are that good at acting. Whether they just get caught up in the fantasy they create or whether they just enjoy playing with a woman like a cat with a string - it happens. 

1 hour ago, LShalcy said:

I didn’t stop seeing him despite knowing something was up because we had such a good connection. And no, I did not know he was married.

Maybe not, but you knew something was up. You just said it. Ignore the warning flags at your own peril. 

1 hour ago, LShalcy said:

If he were my husband and I were to see these text exchanges between him and another woman, I would know he loves her and cares about her and I would be heartbroken. But I didn’t cause that heartbreak. 

Please - you are projecting here. She will look at you with nothing but disdain and pity.

What’s more, you take no ownership for your role in this affair. Your are indeed light years away from sensible reason.

The only person you are fooling here is yourself, I’m sorry. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by BaileyB

[LShalcy]

31 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Please - you are projecting here. She will look at you with nothing but disdain and pity.

I doubt that. Any woman, whether they suspect their husband is cheating or they know it for sure, will be more heartbroken when they first find out, rather than feel pity for the mistress. 

[BaileyB]

32 minutes ago, LShalcy said:

I doubt that. Any woman, whether they suspect their husband is cheating or they know it for sure, will be more heartbroken when they first find out, rather than feel pity for the mistress. 

Oh, I don’t disagree, most wives will be heartbroken. Most women don’t appreciate being lied to and betrayed by the men they trust. 

But, if you think she is going to say “its clear to me, he loves her...” you are mistaken. If you fantasize that she will somehow realize that she cannot keep him because he loves another woman, you are likely very mistaken. 

If not pity, what else would you feel for a woman who was in a relationship with a man who had lied and hid his marital status for two years? For a woman who was planning a future with this man?

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by BaileyB

[LShalcy]

18 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

But, if you think she is going to say “its clear to me, he loves her...” you are mistaken. If you fantasize that she will somehow realize that she cannot keep him because he loves another woman, you are likely very mistaken. 

This is not what I think at all. I meant that if I were to see this on my husbands phone, I would know he is in a relationship with another   women and it wasn’t just sexual. 

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, LShalcy said:

This is not what I think at all. I meant that if I were to see this on my husbands phone, I would know he is in a relationship with another   women and it wasn’t just sexual. 

Does it really matter? Do you think his wife cares whether it is just sexual or whether he has feelings for the woman? 

It matters to you. Does it really matter to his wife? 

Edited May 22, 2021 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

7 hours ago, LShalcy said:

but I do believe him when he says he didn’t intend for this,

And this is what made you such an easy target tp begin with. 

It will also be the self-delusion that ultimately brings you more heartache. 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by ExpatInItaly

[Stupidkupid]

I'm not going to go point by point but just note, again, how sad this makes me.

How lonely you nust be and how insecure in yourself to accept this, or be prepared to accept this.

If your MM wanted to be with you, he would be wouldn't he? Not lying to you and hiding it and going home to hise wife each day. 

The fact remains that, had you not confronted him, he would not have confessed to you and even now, still is determined to maintain the status quo: you on the side. His wife at home.

There is a lot confirmation bias here. You see something that shows how appallingly he treated you and behaved but turn that into a reason he loves you. 

I'm sorry for you. Especially as you seem determined to stay in a relationship with a man with all the morals of an alley cat on heat.

There is a definitive pattern with MM who leave their wives and end up with their OW:

- there is a level of honesty in the Affair. Even if its not the whole truth its most of it

- the OW knows the MM is married from start and is an knowing party. See truth and honesty, above

- the OW is prepared to walk away. Sometimes does.

- MM leaves of his own accord. He is not pressured. He owns up. He leaves. He does it because he chooses to. Not because he us caught out. He is the instigator of divorce.

- there is no codependency, no feeling of "i need this man" there is no desperation, such as the not feeling you can start over, being reliant on someone in this way in any relationship is unhealthy.

You have basically none of the above.

Tell him you are going to tell his wife. See how he responds. That will tell you a lot.

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, LShalcy said:

 heartbroken when they first find out, rather than feel pity for the mistress. 

Just as you are right now. He probably did enjoy being with you. It was a wonderful escape for him from all the tedium of marriage.

He also probably cared for you, affairs are rarely only about sex.

They involve the fun of escape, deception, getting away with something, outsmarting the spouse and affair partner with all the lies.

It's a huge thrill and addictive ego boost for cheaters. It usually sucks for the spouse and the affair partner.

Only you can decide if you want half a man.

[RebeccaR]

10 hours ago, LShalcy said:

This is a man who talked about how our kids would look and took no precaution on preventing that outcome if it happened (I didn’t either).

I don’t think this proves anything. Teenagers also fail to take precautions and fantasize about how their babies would look.

Read this board. There is a poster who has had at least 3 out of wedlock children with her MM and he still hasn’t left his wife.

[elaine567]

17 minutes ago, Stupidkupid said:

Tell him you are going to tell his wife. See how he responds. That will tell you a lot.

Yes it may be a good test, but as this guy is an accomplished liar and if he is certain Lshalcy won't really want to do that in case she loses him,  he may call her bluff.
We have had OW here who decided to go tell the wife, to find themselves dumped immediately.

The complication here is that it is not a straight fight between Lshalcy and the wife.
There is his child involved here and that can sway things massively  in the favour of the wife...
Lshalcy also has kids, he may not want to be a step father either...
Fine, man needs a bit of extra sex and finds it, but that is a long long way from leaving his wife and his kid and taking on some other guy's kids...

[RebeccaR]

10 hours ago, LShalcy said:

I’m preparing what I’m going to say and preparing for if he tells me he’s not leaving her. 

He may tell you he is leaving but “just give me a little more time” or “when my daughter is older” or “when I have saved up some money”. In fact, he probably will.

Have you prepared a response for that? 

We have recommended you read other stories on this board. Have you taken our advice to read them, or are you still avoiding anything that might show you something unpleasant about your fairy tale?

If his wife saw your text messages, he would tell her you are a crazy stalker and he just said what he had to in order to keep you placated. Not “yes, I admit it, I am in love with her and I don’t love you “.

[lana-banana]

I am a little alarmed at the speed with which you went from "I'm so lonely, I'm so broken, this hurt is so intense, I'm in crisis" to "actually we're star-crossed lovers who can eventually be together". I suspect you are trying to avoid feeling tremendous pain, but this road only leads to an avalanche of unimaginable (and unavoidable) pain later. Just ask the OWs here.

You aren't two people who met at the wrong time. He wasn't just trolling for a fling that turned into true love. This is just a standard affair; it's only different because he lied to you for so long and it seems limited entirely to spending time together at your house. You are talking about a strong relationship and the potential for a future together while he is actively insisting he wants nothing more than to go back to sex and hanging out at your house. You can keep giving 100% of yourself and your best years to a married man who will give you no more than 10%, but that won't change the equation.  Leaving his wife (and please, stop fixating on how she might feel about you---she's his wife and you aren't, this isn't a competition) simply isn't on the table.

To reiterate, I think you would get an enormous benefit from counseling. This situation is per your own description just one of many that have been volatile and lacking trust. Please talk to a professional who can help you understand more about yourself, your patterns and your decisions.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by lana-banana

[elaine567]

15 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

I am a little alarmed at the speed with which you went from "I'm so lonely, I'm so broken, this hurt is so intense, I'm in crisis" to "actually we're star-crossed lovers who can eventually be together"

She went from the horror and pain of withdrawal and cold turkey, to the relief of a fix and the possibility of getting a regular supply.

Edited May 22, 2021 by elaine567
typo

[RebeccaR]

16 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

There is his child involved here and that can sway things massively  in the favour of the wife...

From your perspective OP, if he is as devoted to his daughter as you say, why would he be willing to break up her home and only see her part time- for you? Think this through logically and you will see the holes in your fantasy.

You have not really imagined the wife as a person, but that should start getting real for you. What if your fantasy were to play out? Think about the divorce filing, custody arrangements. He’s going to be dealing with the ex-wife forever because they share a child. (This is assuming they are amicable about it, best case scenario). He’ll miss the girl when she’s with her mom, he’ll be sad missing her on holidays, he might blame you. Because you were a great part time lover but he didn’t intend to get a new wife.

[Cookiesandough]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

There is his child involved here and that can sway things massively  in the favour of the wife...
Lshalcy also has kids, he may not want to be a step father either

This . Especially with the other factors involved . Sorry.. not looking good 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, RebeccaR said:

What if your fantasy were to play out? Think about the divorce filing, custody arrangements. He’s going to be dealing with the ex-wife forever because they share a child

Not only this, but OP is fooling herself if she thinks this guy would not wind up cheating on her, too. 

 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Not only this, but OP is fooling herself if she thinks this guy would not wind up cheating on her, too. 

 

As Prudence so wisely said, he has a wife and child - it wasn’t enough for him. He went on a dating site to find a girlfriend. 

If you believe OP that this is somehow because the wife was deficient, you would be wrong. The husband is deficient. This is not the decision a good, and loyal, and trustworthy man/husband. 

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

I don’t think this proves anything. Teenagers also fail to take precautions and fantasize about how their babies would look.

This is so true. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by BaileyB

[Starswillshine]

Women have really, REALLY need to stop equating a man not taking precautions to get a woman pregnant as love. So many dead beat dads out there who did not care one ounce that he may get someone pregnant because he had no plan to give a darn about any child. 

[Prudence V]

14 hours ago, LShalcy said:

But, as time progressed, it turned into more.

To you. What concrete actions did he take to show you it had turned into more, for him? Did he introduce you to his mother? Take you to his company dinner? Whisk you off on a romantic holiday to Paris, and post the pix prominently on FB, declaring to all the world how much he loved you? What convinced you that he was as into the “more” as you were?