Just Gotta Get it Out of My System

[MEAN956GUNS]

So to make a long story short, I had something going on with a co worker, and thought it was genuine, but as it turns out, I was presented with evidence that she's currently in a down low, toxic relationship with my wannabe alpha chad boss who's really just a degenerate d-bag (apparently he abuses her verbally and physically as well as emotionally). From what I can gather, his being overbearing and verbally abusive with me is a by product of the fact that she was enamored by the fact that I'm a pretty good guy in terms of knowing how to treat a lady, and her liking me was not genuine, but just a way of spiting him and throwing it in his face that someone would actually care for her and treat her right. I find the fact that they kept their relationship a secret both creepy and unfair as things would have been pretty different if she just told me she was spoken for, but in finding out about them, it has proven that many things she told me were out right lies, and it makes me never want to speak to her again. She was initially furious and even demanded we be scheduled separately, but lately has been making attempts to reconnect with me and act like things were the way they were before i found out. Not sure how to approach this. The evidence I obtained of their relationship was ill gotten so im not in a position to reveal my knowledge of it. This whole thing is just becoming a serialistic nightmare that I can't wake up from. 

 

Don't know if this is worth mentioning, but social isolation thanks to family and friends being afraid of covid has taken a mental toll on me, so I'm pretty sure there might be a connection between that and my difficulty in handling all this. I didn't anticipate this young woman's advances,  i didnt anticipate catching feelings for her, I didnt anticipate finding out the truth of this all. At this point I just want peace of mind and to put it all past me, and thought talking about it would help. Guess that's all for now. 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

 my wannabe alpha chad boss who's really just a degenerate d-bag .

Yikes. You need to get off those incel and PUA sites with their weird lingo.

Its brainwashing you like most cults do. Making you bitter and unattractive to women.

The workplace is not a singles bar. Get your paycheck and ignore office gossip. 

[Atwood]

You just found out someone you care about is being subjected to violent and psychological abuse from someone (which is not only morally wrong but also a crime) and your concern is how this is all so unfair on you? If this is in any way indicative of your decency or empathy I can see why you're having issues with dating. 

[vla1120]

7 hours ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

The evidence I obtained of their relationship was ill gotten so im not in a position to reveal my knowledge of it. This whole thing is just becoming a serialistic nightmare that I can't wake up from. 

So, she doesn't know that you know about their relationship, but he knows about your relationship with her and that's why he mistreats you at work? On one hand, this is why it's not good to get involved with someone from work. If it goes south, it can make your work life very difficult. You could take the high road and just go to work to do your job, act professional while you're there, and ignore the two of them. Clearly, she's not the one for you. COVID restrictions are lifting, now. You should be able to get out there and meet some new people.

[d0nnivain]

Let her have her toxic whatever with whomever.  If your boss is treating you poorly because he's jealous you need to tell him to knock it off or you will report him. Leave her alone because she's deceptive & manipulative.  You can do better.  

You are probably right that social isolation is a factor in here & has undercut your coping abilities.  Can you at least reconnect with friends & family through a call or video chat?  

If at all possible start looking around for a new job. 

[glows]

18 hours ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

Not sure how to approach this. The evidence I obtained of their relationship was ill gotten so im not in a position to reveal my knowledge of it. This whole thing is just becoming a serialistic nightmare that I can't wake up from. 

Back away slowly. Remain polite and professional at work, nothing more. If either of them approaches you for work-related issues, reply with professionalism and tact. Leave your personal issues outside of work. Stay out of the triangle. Keep things very simple for yourself and straightforward. Do not be caught alone with her on work premises that can be misconstrued or twisted into a sexual harassment case and don't send her any emails or any other indication that you shared a history or indication of any interest. 

Put this behind you as soon as you can. Move on from this. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by glows

[MEAN956GUNS]

10 hours ago, Atwood said:

You just found out someone you care about is being subjected to violent and psychological abuse from someone (which is not only morally wrong but also a crime) and your concern is how this is all so unfair on you? If this is in any way indicative of your decency or empathy I can see why you're having issues with dating. 

She dolls herself up and stops by his place between 12-4 AM on an almost nightly basis. That can only mean one of two things : 1) the claims of abuse/mistreatment she has levied against him were false, which means she's been lying to me this whole time. or 2) she doesn't seem to mind the way he treats her (let us not forget, some women actually prefer toxic men over good guys) and the idea of her willingly dating an abusive degenerate like him just flat out disgusts me. As far as I'm concerned, both are grounds to not feel bad for her and never wanna speak to her again. 

 

Oh, and so we're clear, I'm not a creep and was not trying to keep tabs on her. The original plan was to get a 20 on him and get fellow members of a social club I'm part of to let him know that an attack on one is an attack on all, and that we're pretty much everywhere down here. In the process of finding out where he lived and scoping out his neighborhood, they caught her stopping by at odd hours, filmed and photographed it, and presented it to me. 

 

The group in question and alot of people I associate with would have considered me dating her taboo, even an out right no no, (i cant articulate as politics are off limits here), but I didn't care what anyone thought, I cared for her and wanted to be with her and felt she was worth the inevitable backlash I would have faced had we ended up together. Maybe I'm just a big old weirdo, but to be presented with clear cut evidence that she never did and never will appreciate anything I do for her, well, it doesn't just hurt, but it also makes it hard to feel bad for her. You question my sense of decency and sympathy, but being an empath and a good guy is what got me here, and to be totally honest, this all has me wondering if there's even a point...

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

The group in question and alot of people I associate with would have considered me dating her taboo, even an out right no no, (i cant articulate as politics are off limits here),

So you are a WS and she is Latina, I'm guessing?

Whether or not I'm right, suggest you keep your gang buds (if that what this is) away from both him and her unless the "plan" here is to wind up doing time over a woman who "volunteers" for "abuse" and probably doesn't really give a hoot about you. She could end up with bruises etc, and then jealous boss has her pin it on you, etc. Then your buds get revenge, but YOU are the one all mixed up in it, etc who the police coming looking for.

Let those two deal with their stuff and you deal with yours. There's a LOT of good reasons many people won't mix dating and work and this sort of dysfunctional nonsense is "exhibit A".

Edited May 13, 2021 by mark clemson

[basil67]

1 hour ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

She dolls herself up and stops by his place between 12-4 AM on an almost nightly basis. That can only mean one of two things : 1) the claims of abuse/mistreatment she has levied against him were false, which means she's been lying to me this whole time. or 2) she doesn't seem to mind the way he treats her (let us not forget, some women actually prefer toxic men over good guys) and the idea of her willingly dating an abusive degenerate like him just flat out disgusts me. As far as I'm concerned, both are grounds to not feel bad for her and never wanna speak to her again. 

You say you've seen evidence of the abuse, so the abuse IS happening.   That you find it disgusting that she doesn't leave only speaks to your lack of understanding of the complexities of domestic abuse.   

Perhaps he keeps promising to change and she's hoping he does.  Or he's beaten down her self esteem so that she thinks she can't do better.   Or he threatens her/her animals/family if she doesn't come see him.  Or she grew up with violence and this is her 'normal'.   Or he's holding something over her head.  He might threaten his own life if she doesn't come.   There are so many reasons why a woman has difficulty leaving.

 

 

[MEAN956GUNS]

13 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

So you are a WS and she is Latina, I'm guessing?

Whether or not I'm right, suggest you keep your gang buds (if that what this is) away from both him and her unless the "plan" here is to wind up doing time over a woman who "volunteers" for "abuse" and probably doesn't really give a hoot about you. She could end up with bruises etc, and then jealous boss has her pin it on you, etc. Then your buds get revenge, but YOU are the one all mixed up in it, etc who the police coming looking for.

Let those two deal with their stuff and you deal with yours. There's a LOT of good reasons many people won't mix dating and work and this sort of dysfunctional nonsense is "exhibit A".

We're both hispanic, my club doesn't roll that way, but her and I do have opposing political views. I just didn't care about that with her. Don't know how else to explain it. She was nothing like the kind of woman I prefer, and I didn't even think I was gonna end up liking her or she'd have been interested in me. Just liked the connection and tenderness between us. If anything they were just bothered by how she did kind of soften me, and well, in hispanic culture, we take machismo pretty seriously, and when your buds think you're getting soft, it can lead to issues, to say the least. I've been giving her the silent treatment for going on a month already, and I feel like I'm getting back to how better off I was pre social isolation due to covid, but her attempts to try and act like things were the way they were before I decided to never speak to her again is kind of confusing me and messing with my head. 

[Atwood]

7 hours ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

She dolls herself up and stops by his place between 12-4 AM on an almost nightly basis. That can only mean one of two things : 1) the claims of abuse/mistreatment she has levied against him were false, which means she's been lying to me this whole time. or 2) she doesn't seem to mind the way he treats her (let us not forget, some women actually prefer toxic men over good guys) and the idea of her willingly dating an abusive degenerate like him just flat out disgusts me. As far as I'm concerned, both are grounds to not feel bad for her and never wanna speak to her again [...] but to be presented with clear cut evidence that she never did and never will appreciate anything I do for her, well, it doesn't just hurt, but it also makes it hard to feel bad for her. You question my sense of decency and sympathy, but being an empath and a good guy is what got me here, and to be totally honest, this all has me wondering if there's even a point...

1. wearing make up and visiting the abuser at 2am is not in conflict with claims of abuse and does not render them false.

2. wearing make up and visiting the abuser at 2am does not imply abuse is welcomed or permitted. 

I have no idea why you think those actions can only mean two things. It might be the only two explanations you're willing to consider because it fits in with your world view, but I would recommend doing some reading about the reasons why people end up in abusive relationships and stay in them - basil very kindly and patiently elaborated on that for you above. You won't find anything remotely factual or empathetic on incel/MGTOW websites. 

People don't prefer toxic relationships to good people. People who are abused as children find themselves thinking abuse is normal or their self esteem is so bruised they believe they deserve that treatment. Not to mention many abusers are skilled at manipualtion, coercion and making you believe it's your fault, you deserve it and that you've done something to bring it on. You are not an empath and you are not a good guy if you don't understand this and blame victims of domestic abuse. You're disgusted with an abuse victim and don't understand the very basis of how people are targeted and victimised by abuse. 

You have no clear cut evidence of appreciation from her because first off she owes you literally nothing and secondly you can't gauge appreciation. Appreciation is a feeling, one that domestic abuse victims aren't always at liberty of showing through actions - particularly to someone they may get in trouble for showing appreciation to. 

Actual empathetic people and 'good guys' don't wonder if there's a point because they couldn't get a domestic abuse victim to choose them instead. 

 

[Taramere]

5 hours ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

We're both hispanic, my club doesn't roll that way, but her and I do have opposing political views. I just didn't care about that with her. Don't know how else to explain it. She was nothing like the kind of woman I prefer, and I didn't even think I was gonna end up liking her or she'd have been interested in me. Just liked the connection and tenderness between us. If anything they were just bothered by how she did kind of soften me, and well, in hispanic culture, we take machismo pretty seriously, and when your buds think you're getting soft, it can lead to issues, to say the least. I've been giving her the silent treatment for going on a month already, and I feel like I'm getting back to how better off I was pre social isolation due to covid, but her attempts to try and act like things were the way they were before I decided to never speak to her again is kind of confusing me and messing with my head. 

It's pretty clear that whatever its underlying philosophies and politics, a gangsterish mentality prevails in your social life (even if most or all of your circle have jobs) and inevitably it traps you in certain ways.  Requiring you to adopt (or appear to adopt) opinions and behaviours that at times might not sit easily with you.  I don't suppose that's a situation you even want to contemplate escaping, though.  Especially when you have close friendship bonds within it.  

Yet here you are on Loveshack, which you must know tends to have an ethos very far removed from gang culture.   Nobody here, other than perhaps the occasional loose cannon, is going to approve or encourage the notion of gang vigilante justice being visited on this boss of yours.  I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.  If the woman you're talking about is consenually continuing in this abusive relationship and isn't being coerced (eg the boss threatening to terminate her employment if she breaks up with him etc) there's probably nothing to do.  In fact, unfortunately, even if there is an element of coercion going on - it sounds as though you are in an environment where this woman probably wouldn't get much support from people in her own circle beyond threats (probably mostly empty, posturing threats at that) to beat her boss up.   

Even if the woman leaves the equation, it sounds to me like this situation has exposed a conflict for you that I would guess has probably gone on for some time.  The conflict between you and the social group you're part of.  The pressures and personal sacrifices associated with remaining within that social group.  It's easy for somebody in your situation to blame a woman for messing with your head...but I suspect what really messes with your head, on a much longer term, is that there are elements within you (this "softer" more empathic side) that are part of you and that require some exploration and release in order for you to be a whole person.   However, you're in an environment where doing that isn't really permitted.  So you're restricted, by the norms of your group (taking machismo seriously) from being yourself.  

Even if this woman were to leave your life completely and never come back, I think this conflict you're experiencing - which you attribute to a woman messing with your head -  will come up time and time again for you.  If you don't choose to address it head on, life will very probably eventually present you with circumstances where you have no choice but to address it head on. 

[MEAN956GUNS]

46 minutes ago, Atwood said:

1. wearing make up and visiting the abuser at 2am is not in conflict with claims of abuse and does not render them false.

2. wearing make up and visiting the abuser at 2am does not imply abuse is welcomed or permitted. 

I have no idea why you think those actions can only mean two things. It might be the only two explanations you're willing to consider because it fits in with your world view, but I would recommend doing some reading about the reasons why people end up in abusive relationships and stay in them - basil very kindly and patiently elaborated on that for you above. You won't find anything remotely factual or empathetic on incel/MGTOW websites. 

People don't prefer toxic relationships to good people. People who are abused as children find themselves thinking abuse is normal or their self esteem is so bruised they believe they deserve that treatment. Not to mention many abusers are skilled at manipualtion, coercion and making you believe it's your fault, you deserve it and that you've done something to bring it on. You are not an empath and you are not a good guy if you don't understand this and blame victims of domestic abuse. You're disgusted with an abuse victim and don't understand the very basis of how people are targeted and victimised by abuse. 

You have no clear cut evidence of appreciation from her because first off she owes you literally nothing and secondly you can't gauge appreciation. Appreciation is a feeling, one that domestic abuse victims aren't always at liberty of showing through actions - particularly to someone they may get in trouble for showing appreciation to. 

Actual empathetic people and 'good guys' don't wonder if there's a point because they couldn't get a domestic abuse victim to choose them instead. 

 

OK, fine, you're right, I don't understand how abuse works because I'm not like that. I don't cheat on women, I don't make degrading comments about their looks or weight, I sure as heck don't hit them, I don't throw things at them, I don't call them the B, C, S or W words. Maybe I am getting soft because lately seeing guys like this have all the luck has worn my good nature thin. I'm no expert, but there's no earthly way that you can be a typical old school gent and all around nice guy and not be negatively impacted by seeing guys like my boss have better luck than you. Being marginalized in favor of guys like this like him happens far too often with me, and simply put, there's only so much you can take before it starts to mess with your head and your feelings. 

 

BTW, I'd appreciate it if people stopped talking about that whole incel deal. That would imply that I'm bitter about the fact that I can't get a woman at all. This is not the case with me. I just tend to attract alot of women who don't appreciate tenderness and romance and are just interested in keeping it casual, and some times it all just gets kind of stale and makes me long for something better. 

[Atwood]

36 minutes ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

OK, fine, you're right, I don't understand how abuse works because I'm not like that. I don't cheat on women, I don't make degrading comments about their looks or weight, I sure as heck don't hit them, I don't throw things at them, I don't call them the B, C, S or W words. Maybe I am getting soft because lately seeing guys like this have all the luck has worn my good nature thin. I'm no expert, but there's no earthly way that you can be a typical old school gent and all around nice guy and not be negatively impacted by seeing guys like my boss have better luck than you. Being marginalized in favor of guys like this like him happens far too often with me, and simply put, there's only so much you can take before it starts to mess with your head and your feelings. 

 

BTW, I'd appreciate it if people stopped talking about that whole incel deal. That would imply that I'm bitter about the fact that I can't get a woman at all. This is not the case with me. I just tend to attract alot of women who don't appreciate tenderness and romance and are just interested in keeping it casual, and some times it all just gets kind of stale and makes me long for something better. 

I'm really glad to hear you don't do any of that. It's the bare minimum for being a decent human which it sounds like your boss is failing miserably at. 

Remember, they're not having luck. They're having dysfunctional, violent relationships based on fear, insecurity and intimidation and abuse. You're not flawed in any way for just wanting to find love and connection with somebody - most humans want this and it hurts us when we can't find it. 

The reason why I (and perhaps others feel the same as me, I can't speak for them) have picked up on incel vibes is because, and I mean this with the best intentions, you are giving off some entitlement. We all want love and connection and we want it so bad it can feel like we need it. And maybe we do need it to be healthy, functioning humans. I can get behind that. However, we certainly aren't owed it by other people. When reading your post, it's understandable you're upset that she hasn't fulfilled the connection with you that you hoped she would, but even though you feel anger and resentment and blame directed towards her, you do admit lacking knowledge in how abusive relationships work so I can see how that's happened. Please just be aware that what you're messing with is incredibly complicated, and I really do mean incredibly. There's her whole personal history you don't know about, not to mention the history of their relationship which may have warped her feelings even further. 

Imagine you love somebody, you're in an abusive relationship with them and you can't for the life of you figure out why someone you love is treating you this way. Then you start to think it's actually your fault, you deserve this because you're worthless. Then a "nice guy" comes along, like you perhaps, and shows her that she can receive kindness and attention that isn't mixed with abuse. Your world view would shatter - "my partner is abusing me by choice, and not because I'm incapable of receiving good treatment?". It can take YEARS to process this trauma and mental anguish. 

There is no luck in that situation, you are so lucky you're not in it. And I know you likely feel that if only she'd just wake up, see she deserves better and succumb to you, the "nice guy", who will treat her how she deserves. But it is not, and has never been, that simple. It's something I recommend you do more research and reading on. Dr Ramani does some good stuff on YouTube. There's lots of good books out there on trauma and abusive relationships. 

As a trauma survivor who is dating a genuinely nice guy now, taking the time to have that understanding instead of falling into the "why would you date an a**h***?" trope is not only going to be helpful for you, but it will prevent you from retraumatising someone if you ever do date someone who has had that experience. Be the change you want to see. 

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, MEAN956GUNS said:

...her attempts to try and act like things were the way they were before I decided to never speak to her again is kind of confusing me and messing with my head. 

Understood. That IS because you like her at some level. She is taken though AND with the boss guy AND may have the psychological complexities being mentioned in other posts above. All reasons to disregard any overtures from her and move on, particularly the first two. Maybe she likes to flirt, but the situation isn't going to do you any good. Seek elsewhere.

[Angelle]

I know it's difficult when you're right in the thick of it, but you could start with feeling grateful that you found out, that she was just using you to make him jealous. You didn't get any deeper, and you don't want to be a part of their game. If he is being a dick to you, based on personal relationships, is there anyone that you can report him to? Definitely don't get violent, for yourself, or for her. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Angelle