Is it just his depression or is he selfish

[d0nnivain]

OK.  I didn't understand the time line. 

All I can tell you is I was depressed & not functional for 4 YEARS after my parents died.  Now is not a great time to get married.  

Do tell the friend that you are going visiting your parents for a while so that friend can check on your FI.  Do not leave this man alone with no support. He's too unstable.  His choices are not your responsibility but you won't forgive yourself if he kills himself.  My EX committed suicide after a years of threats.  I know of what I speak.  

Edited May 16, 2021 by d0nnivain

[AlphaFemme99]

10 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

OK.  I didn't understand the time line. 

All I can tell you is I was depressed & not functional for 4 YEARS after my parents died.  Now is not a great time to get married.  

Do tell the friend that you are going visiting your parents for a while so that friend can check on your FI.  Do not leave this man alone with no support. He's too unstable.  His choices are not your responsibility but you won't forgive yourself if he kills himself.  My EX committed suicide after a years of threats.  I know of what I speak.  

The issue is I don’t have long before I can have kids, which is what I want and he wants. 
another thing is if I wait to give this relationship more of a chance, we can’t really move forward yet until he gets an operation a couple of months away. Then he can change the unstable job that’s giving him stress and at least some worries are put to rest. 
the other plan was us having a business, which we need to save up for again because I put in more towards our living expenses during the 6 weeks he recently took off work. 

From your experience with depression, can you love someone and just not be present for them because of the illness? 
he tells me often that he still does and nothing has changed and he’s the person I first met and fell for but his actions are different. Its to the point where I sometimes wonder if he’s keeping me there so I can look after him during recuperation. 
I can’t understand how a man who was so obsessed in the first 6 months or so that he was calling and texting 24/7 the few time’s we were not together and how much he misses me, could change. He’s not going out .. doesn’t really feel like being around others at the moment in general 

These days when I get space he’s not calling often like he used to even though he’s worried I will actually leave  .. texts and calls maybe once a day 

 

 

 

[BaileyB]

11 hours ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

I will call emergency services if I feel he’s serious again at any point 

Yes. This is what you need to do. 

You also need to end this relationship. This is no way for either of you to live. It will not change if you stay. 

[spiderowl]

Depression can affect people very badly.  If he is threatening suicide, call 999 / 911.  You shouldn't have to deal with this alone.

He may genuinely attempt suicide so don't take a threat lightly but he is also trying to manipulate you by doing so.

You may wish to stay until you have had chance to see if his therapy works, but I would understand if you already feel it is too much.

Bereavement can leave you feeling sad and disorientated for months.  I would think it has added to his depression.  Depression can affect different people in different ways.  Some have a negative attitude towards themselves but are still caring and considerate of others.  Some shut down and become uncaring towards others.  Some people slow down and practically stop engaging with the outside world.  It varies enormously.

I don't think you can know at this stage whether it is his inherent personality to be uncaring once he has got engaged or if he is shutting people out of his life due to depression.  He has had some serious life events, enough to affect someone vulnerable.  However, there are some signs that he is manipulative when depressed, which is not fair on you.

At this point, do not get married!  If you want to leave, that is up to you of course.  If you decide to stay and see how things go, still do not get married.  Allow time for treatment and therapy to work and then review things.  You might even consider making notes of his behaviour now and how it makes you feel so that you can review things later on to see how much has changed.

Good luck!

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by spiderowl

[IrinaM]

you are being abused. (i know you don't want to hear that. it's still true.)

maybe you believe, as most abused women do, that your abusive relationship involves some sort of unique circumstances or mitigating factors. it does not. everything you wrote is highly typical of abusive relationships.

please DO NOT tell him, his friends, his family, that you are going to leave the relationship. just let him think you are visiting with family to "clear your head" and be sure to (secretly) pack all important documents, prescriptions, etc.

It is not your job to keep this man alive, or nurse him to physical or emotional health. I think you're slowly figuring out that he would not do those things for you.

If he is so emotionally unstable that he will overdose in front of you to FORCE you to stay with him, then he is emotionally unstable enough to commit an act of violence to you for the same reason. Breakup violence is very real. Abuse is about control. he wants to control you, and he will use guilt, shame, fear, violence, whatever.

Because you are with an abuser, you need to strategically exit the relationship in a way that protects YOU. Do not worry about this man or his well-being. You can't rescue him, and i hate to say this, but there's a chance you might not be able to rescue yourself at this point.

[AlphaFemme99]

21 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

Depression can affect people very badly.  If he is threatening suicide, call 999 / 911.  You shouldn't have to deal with this alone.

He may genuinely attempt suicide so don't take a threat lightly but he is also trying to manipulate you by doing so.

You may wish to stay until you have had chance to see if his therapy works, but I would understand if you already feel it is too much.

Bereavement can leave you feeling sad and disorientated for months.  I would think it has added to his depression.  Depression can affect different people in different ways.  Some have a negative attitude towards themselves but are still caring and considerate of others.  Some shut down and become uncaring towards others.  Some people slow down and practically stop engaging with the outside world.  It varies enormously.

I don't think you can know at this stage whether it is his inherent personality to be uncaring once he has got engaged or if he is shutting people out of his life due to depression.  He has had some serious life events, enough to affect someone vulnerable.  However, there are some signs that he is manipulative when depressed, which is not fair on you.

At this point, do not get married!  If you want to leave, that is up to you of course.  If you decide to stay and see how things go, still do not get married.  Allow time for treatment and therapy to work and then review things.  You might even consider making notes of his behaviour now and how it makes you feel so that you can review things later on to see how much has changed.

Good luck!

 

I can allow time for treatment to work but then I can deny myself the chance to have kids, if it goes the way it seems to be going and we break up. It’s not right or fair to rush into dating again 
Its so hard .. this sudden loss shouldn’t have happened and it’s just become a blow to an already fragile person (and relationship) 

ive never been so at a loss .. the more I drag it on the harder it would get if I need to break it off yet I have no clue how (or if) I can bring myself to do it at this time. It’s just not fair 🙈

Maybe I should just try to keep to myself as much as possible and do my thing and be there occasionally if he needs me.. not think about the relationship at all right now 

Normally this would be simple - if it’s not working then go. If he wants to make it work he’ll work hard to get me back 

[AlphaFemme99]

39 minutes ago, IrinaM said:

you are being abused. (i know you don't want to hear that. it's still true.)

maybe you believe, as most abused women do, that your abusive relationship involves some sort of unique circumstances or mitigating factors. it does not. everything you wrote is highly typical of abusive relationships.

please DO NOT tell him, his friends, his family, that you are going to leave the relationship. just let him think you are visiting with family to "clear your head" and be sure to (secretly) pack all important documents, prescriptions, etc.

It is not your job to keep this man alive, or nurse him to physical or emotional health. I think you're slowly figuring out that he would not do those things for you.

If he is so emotionally unstable that he will overdose in front of you to FORCE you to stay with him, then he is emotionally unstable enough to commit an act of violence to you for the same reason. Breakup violence is very real. Abuse is about control. he wants to control you, and he will use guilt, shame, fear, violence, whatever.

Because you are with an abuser, you need to strategically exit the relationship in a way that protects YOU. Do not worry about this man or his well-being. You can't rescue him, and i hate to say this, but there's a chance you might not be able to rescue yourself at this point.

The control bit I agree with but I don’t think he will do something to me .. I do believe he’s capable of doing something to himself though. The loss of his dad haunts him daily as they were so close and he breaks down regularly. It’s part of why leaving now is extra hard as he was already down before it happened but had been improving 

He has long term friendships and is known as a good guy. His dad was one of the kindest people I met and I used to see more of this kindness in my man initially.. he’s more like a stubborn child who’s used to getting his way. He’s lived life keeping a good reputation of a famous family member so I honestly don’t think he’d do something to me .. he hasn’t physically done anything. Simply needs to let go of his sense of entitlement I think 

I will probably stay apart longer with the space and as you suggested, say it’s to clear my head. I did it before when I got space for 6 weeks and he was reluctant but then respectful of it. It wasn’t long after I returned and things actually were getting better with us that he lost his dad. This is the dilemma I’m faced with 

 

 

[d0nnivain]

You are not being abused.  There is some manipulation but that is a far cry from abuse.  I do agree with @IrinaM that you don't need to tell people in advance that you are thinking of breaking up.  My point was if while you are gone he again threatens suicide you need to take that threat seriously & tell somebody so he gets help.  At that point you are acting not for him but for yourself.  You will never forgive yourself if you kept the threat to yourself & he succeeds. It's not about keeping him alive.  It's about preserving your own mental health.  Don't stay be he threatens to kill himself but do get him real medical help, then walk away with a clear conscience.  

[ShyViolet]

5 hours ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

The issue is I don’t have long before I can have kids, which is what I want and he wants. 

Are you kidding?  Please, PLEASE, tell me you are not actually considering having kids with this person.

[AlphaFemme99]

I don’t know anymore .. feel like sounds covid we’ve both lost our minds. Started getting better and then this recent incident has been too big as a next challenge. Hard to feel hope anymore of this surviving 

[AlphaFemme99]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

You are not being abused.  There is some manipulation but that is a far cry from abuse.  I do agree with @IrinaM that you don't need to tell people in advance that you are thinking of breaking up.  My point was if while you are gone he again threatens suicide you need to take that threat seriously & tell somebody so he gets help.  At that point you are acting not for him but for yourself.  You will never forgive yourself if you kept the threat to yourself & he succeeds. It's not about keeping him alive.  It's about preserving your own mental health.  Don't stay be he threatens to kill himself but do get him real medical help, then walk away with a clear conscience.  

So do you think i shouldn’t wait a bit more until the loss isn’t so raw? It’s hard to do .. 

he tells me each day lately he needs to find a reason to not give up. What do medical professionals do.. keep them in hospital if someone threatens their life? 

[Crazelnut]

Regardless of his personality issues, he genuinely is severely depressed. What exactly is his treatment plan? Therapy, meds? Depression can be managed, but it takes a lot of work and sometimes trial & error on the meds. Is he relly trying to treat it, or is he paying lip service?

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

he tells me each day lately he needs to find a reason to not give up. 

It would be best to address your own depression, anxiety, etc. and take better care of yourself, rather than trying to fix him as a distraction/project.

The sooner you get out of this toxic situation, the sooner you'll feel better. 

When you don't call EMS, you are playing with someone's life, stop. It's reckless.

He does not "need you", he has his mother, family, doctors, therapists, etc. 

Stop trying to run the world.

[ShyViolet]

5 hours ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

he tells me each day lately he needs to find a reason to not give up. 

You cannot be that "reason".  That's not a relationship.  That's emotional extortion.  This is toxic and you need to put an end to this.

[BaileyB]

9 hours ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

Its so hard .. this sudden loss shouldn’t have happened and it’s just become a blow to an already fragile person (and relationship) 

This is life. If it wasn’t the loss of his father, it would be something else.
He had threatened suicide before this death - no? I’m going to guess that these are long standing issues for him. He has a lot he is struggling with and he lacks the coping skills to deal with life. The loss was just the most recent tipping point. It won’t be the last though. 
If you think this wouldn’t have happened had his father not passed, you are likely wrong. This man is not be capable of a healthy relationship right now. Had you taken the time to assess the man and the situation a little more carefully, you would have know this before you got so deeply involved. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by BaileyB

[AlphaFemme99]

1 hour ago, Crazelnut said:

Regardless of his personality issues, he genuinely is severely depressed. What exactly is his treatment plan? Therapy, meds? Depression can be managed, but it takes a lot of work and sometimes trial & error on the meds. Is he relly trying to treat it, or is he paying lip service?

He is seeing a psychologist but it’s not as regular as I’d like .. smaller town so it’s hard. He’s trying to be strong but I can see he is overwhelmed.. I’m there for him but not sure how much more I can do.
He’s not on antidepressants but it’s possibly worth looking into it .. can make things worse so not sure. I was once put on Prozac and after 5 months of hell I tapered down and never again. Maybe just because I’m not clinically depressed but had a really bad situation at the time 

[AlphaFemme99]

42 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

This is life. If it wasn’t the loss of his father, it would be something else.
He had threatened suicide before this death - no? I’m going to guess that these are long standing issues for him. He has a lot he is struggling with and he lacks the coping skills to deal with life. The loss was just the most recent tipping point. It won’t be the last though. 
If you think this wouldn’t have happened had his father not passed, you are likely wrong. This man is not be capable of a healthy relationship right now. Had you taken the time to assess the man and the situation a little more carefully, you would have know this before you got so deeply involved. 

I had accessed it and as I said, the first time it happened I was ready to walk.
Stayed to make sure he was ok after he took  too many pills. He promised me not to call the ambulance because his next of kin would be in a really bad way.

i took him to a GP the next day and he started seeing a psych same day 

It then became a pattern after covid and we were stuck in heavy restrictions.. was hard to leave  😭

Then I came up with the plan early this year that I’ll call emergency services if it happened again.. I took 6 weeks space living away and we agreed my return was the last chance. It started really well and then he lost his dad. 
I feel like I’ve been caught in a spiral of staying to make sure he’s ok as well as to give it a last chance because he was getting better before the sudden unexpected death .. we got a phone call which made it harder. Couldn’t see him much because his mum was using covid as an excuse I think to not have us over 

 

[AlphaFemme99]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

It would be best to address your own depression, anxiety, etc. and take better care of yourself, rather than trying to fix him as a distraction/project.

The sooner you get out of this toxic situation, the sooner you'll feel better. 

When you don't call EMS, you are playing with someone's life, stop. It's reckless.

He does not "need you", he has his mother, family, doctors, therapists, etc. 

Stop trying to run the world.

It sounds easy but I’m his fiancé of 18 months not just someone who can give up on him that easily 

 His mother is a wreck herself ., lost her lifelong love and is on a good day a difficult lady 

Who do I call where he can be looked after more than just for an appointment? This is serious because he gets impulsive 

[ShyViolet]

3 minutes ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

It sounds easy but I’m his fiancé of 18 months not just someone who can give up on him that easily 

 His mother is a wreck herself ., lost her lifelong love and is on a good day a difficult lady 

Who do I call where he can be looked after more than just for an appointment? This is serious because he gets impulsive 

You are starting to sound codependent.  Are you going to therapy yourself?

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

You are starting to sound codependent.  Are you going to therapy yourself?

I get that it’s hard to leave someone when they are threatening self harm OP. You are in a difficult place here. 

But, the two of you have fallen into a very unhealthy pattern. You both need support to deal with this and get to a healthier place...

He may well need inpatient care. You certainly would benefit from your own counsellor. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by BaileyB

[AlphaFemme99]

34 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I get that it’s hard to leave someone when they are threatening self harm OP. You are in a difficult place here. 

But, the two of you have fallen into a very unhealthy pattern. You both need support to deal with this and get to a healthier place...

He may well need inpatient care. You certainly would benefit from your own counsellor. 

Yes .. she’s back from a long break and I get to see my therapist again in a fortnight.. 

I will ask her advice on next steps to take 

As for his therapist, he won’t see me because of conflict of interest. That sucks because I’m involved through the suicide threats but he’s just going to have to discuss it himself. I’m just surprised his therapist hasn’t yet suggested anti depressants.. he’s a really highly respected one with many years experience 

 

[BaileyB]

Does he see a therapist of a psychiatrist? Because only a psychiatrist or a physician can prescribe medication.

You are correct, antidepressants can sometimes make things worse. One of the side effects is actually suicidal idealization. 

You really shouldn’t be attending his therapy sessions - there needs to be some boundary. You are confusing a crisis moment with his mental health care. In a crisis moment, you need to take steps to protect him - ie. call 911. You sound over-involved and I hate to say it, codependent, if you believe that you should attend his therapy sessions. 

My advice to you is that you need to take a BIG step back. He has drawn you into his drama and you are now as much a part of it as he is... take some distance, talk to your counsellor - you have some decisions to make. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by BaileyB

[ShyViolet]

46 minutes ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

As for his therapist, he won’t see me because of conflict of interest. That sucks because I’m involved through the suicide threats but he’s just going to have to discuss it himself. I’m just surprised his therapist hasn’t yet suggested anti depressants.. he’s a really highly respected one with many years experience 

I don't know why you think you should be seeing HIS therapist.  His therapist is right, that wouldn't be appropriate.  You can't help him get better or be involved in his therapy or his treatment.  You are starting to sound dangerously close to thinking you can "fix" him, which is an unhealthy, codependent way of thinking.  This is why you should pursue your own therapy.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

 not as regular as I’d like. I was once put on Prozac and after 5 months of hell I tapered down and never again.

It's best to stay in your own lane when it comes to mental health. You're not his psychiatrist.

[Crazelnut]

He's NOT getting appropriate treatment. If he's so depressed he's threatening suicide, he needs to see a PSYCHIATRIST and get on meds. He needs to be seeing a therapist on a regular, frequent basis. 

If I were in your shoes, I would tell him that he needs to do those things (commit to seriously working on the problem) or I'd leave. Your relationship is unsustainable if he refuses to address his issues. Why should you be held hostage by his refusal to get appropriate help?

My late husband had several bouts of severe depression & anxiety, and he attempted suicide once. It's hard enough to deal with a partner's mental illness when they're taking it seriously and doing everything possible to combat it. It's practically impossible if they won't.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Crazelnut