How much impact can a MIL have on a relationship?

[AlphaFemme99]

Update: I’m on a losing battle for sure. She’s a grieving widow supposedly yet mentioned she needs Botox in a message to my fiancé recently. 
he let it slip in conversation he would like to get it for her 😩 wtf! He’s on a commission only job at the moment and saving for his surgery. We don’t have a joint account but I’m contributing to our living, though he does a bit more. I have added more lately due to him taking 6 weeks off work after his loss .. 
He can’t afford to take me out to anything fancy because ‘he’s saving’ and he doesn’t want to go out because he’s grieving but he can afford to get his mother Botox! She dares to tell him he’ll never be good enough and I want a millionaire - this coming from someone who mooched off her husband and now off her son! 
How would anyone broach something like this to their partner? I know his response - she’s grieving so he wants to do something nice to lift her spirits a bit. Also he’ll bring up that it’s coming from his pay check 

[Acacia98]

On 6/4/2021 at 12:53 AM, AlphaFemme99 said:

I don’t know how I managed to have a man who was obsessed with me and want to do anything to make me happy .. to shortly after the first time I met (and was ignored by) his mother, I could see the changes begin  (she had an excuse that sounded legit to him. After that she pretended to be sweet because he had yelled at her and she knew being a b**** directly wouldn’t work) 

I dont think he really changed.  I think a guy who will bend over backwards to accommodate his girlfriend and is obsessed with her is not exactly engaging in the healthiest of actions. He has a weak personality, is too eager to please, and is too easily manipulated. It doesn't come as a surprise that his mum can manipulate him so easily. From where I'm sitting, the red flags were evident from the beginning.

Your plan to end things later in the year is fine as long as you're not putting your own mental health on the line to keep things going.

[AlphaFemme99]

19 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

I dont think he really changed.  I think a guy who will bend over backwards to accommodate his girlfriend and is obsessed with her is not exactly engaging in the healthiest of actions. He has a weak personality, is too eager to please, and is too easily manipulated. It doesn't come as a surprise that his mum can manipulate him so easily. From where I'm sitting, the red flags were evident from the beginning.

Your plan to end things later in the year is fine as long as you're not putting your own mental health on the line to keep things going.

He felt he needed to step up because he saw his competition (men who were already well established - something he used to be until a recent setback). I was dating a bunch of them while I was friends with him - He saw I could choose and he had fallen for me quite quickly so he wanted to try measure up so he would stand a chance. I could see it also made him happy to put a smile on my face .. but despite the fact he couldn’t afford to spoil me the way the others could, it wasn’t important because everything was great back then. Half a year living together had so much in common and wanted all the same things in life - getting engaged seemed right. I had been happy
 

unless there are big changes, I will be ending it later this year. My confidence has dropped and I used to get treated better .. both by him and others. His need to please wasn’t uncommon - I got that often. Men can get really giddy in the first stages and go overboard, even those who get chased by girls a lot because of their money/status. Once they find a woman they really like they can become like a teen. It’s why I didn’t think much of it .. knew he’d tone it down over time but never expected he would switch off effort dramatically after he “got me” so to speak .. after the ring was on my finger 

Edited June 5, 2021 by AlphaFemme99

[Acacia98]

57 minutes ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

He felt he needed to step up because he saw his competition (men who were already well established - something he used to be until a recent setback). I was dating a bunch of them while I was friends with him - He saw I could choose and he had fallen for me quite quickly so he wanted to try measure up so he would stand a chance. I could see it also made him happy to put a smile on my face .. but despite the fact he couldn’t afford to spoil me the way the others could, it wasn’t important because everything was great back then. Half a year living together had so much in common and wanted all the same things in life - getting engaged seemed right. I had been happy

It does sound like he was trying very hard to be what he thought you liked rather than his true self. And if that was the case, it was never going to last long. A person can only play a role for so long.

During the honeymoon period, it is possible he was mirroring you and that, in reality, you didn't want the same things in life and didn't have so much in common. It is also possible that he doesn't really know what he wants because he was presumably raised to please his mum.

Assuming that your assessment of his mother is accurate and she is committed to controlling/manipulating him, he already had weak boundaries and was a momma's boy when you met him. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Acacia98

[AlphaFemme99]

7 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

It does sound like he was trying very hard to be what he thought you liked rather than his true self. And if that was the case, it was never going to last long. A person can only play a role for so long.

During the honeymoon period, it is possible he was mirroring you and that, in reality, you didn't want the same things in life and didn't have so much in common. It is also possible that he doesn't really know what he wants because he was presumably raised to please his mum.

Assuming that your assessment of his mother is accurate and she is committed to controlling/manipulating him, he already had weak boundaries and was a momma's boy when you met him. 

A lot of what you say is true. He has lived interstate a lot so I never would’ve picked it but I do believe he’s still very influenced by his mum. Funny though that when I saw them interact in person a few times she pulls him up on attitude the same way I do. 
He tells her what he tells me - I’m overreacting. I think she gets involved a lot lately because she did so in the past when he chose b****y women but she knows I’m different so can’t understand her meddling  

He needs to man up. He acts all tough otherwise and isn’t a doormat but needs to be less childlike if he doesn’t get his way. 
I can see a lot of potential in him and oddly enough we still are on the same path - both really want kids and a strong family unit (something both our folks have/had) .. we have been pulled backwards by covid shortly after our engagement .. his surgery has also been postponed twice, which keeps him in the stressful commission job longer when he’s capable of more .. and Im contributing my $ towards a bunch of things pulling us backwards when I had been saving for a business .. that’s delayed. Plus I will be there for him during surgery recovery.

a few spanners in the works that have made my situation unique .. it’s why I won’t end it now in the midst of his depression. Give it 6 months more - final try. What do u think of the Botox post I recently put up in the thread .. am I overreacting? 😂

 

[Caauug]

On 6/4/2021 at 5:53 AM, AlphaFemme99 said:

What do you suggest when you say make things happen? 

Do you think his mum can have that much power if he loves me, as he supposedly tells me. Her influence is so strong ..

Yes, his mum has more power/influence over him than you do, or likely ever will. Her husband is no longer around to manipulate so her attention has turned to her son. She is older and more experienced at playing these games than you are. Only pick your battles that are worth fighting, that you can win. It sounds like she is the master at this game. 

On 6/4/2021 at 5:53 AM, AlphaFemme99 said:

I snapped last night after he was giving me attitude and admitted I don’t want to marry him anymore. He swore and went to the couch but didn’t really do much else. Probably doesn’t take me seriously because I didn’t walk out the times I was going to. And I 100% would have in any other circumstance 

 An empty threat from you. He has learned to not take you seriously.... Just sit back and relax and let you calm down.... Then....

On 6/4/2021 at 5:53 AM, AlphaFemme99 said:

....and he comes back and tells me again he’s  struggling so much with wanting to stay alive - he’s hurting so badly (I can see it) but the only things keeping him alive are me and a project he’s passionate about. I helped him to discover his calling a year ago and he’s working toward it as his father was so proud and it’s something he enjoys.

Then he comes back and tells you how good you are for him.... This has worked before on you. He has learned from the best, his mother. The cycle will continue until you make good your threat....and make things happen.

[AlphaFemme99]

1 hour ago, Caauug said:

Yes, his mum has more power/influence over him than you do, or likely ever will. Her husband is no longer around to manipulate so her attention has turned to her son. She is older and more experienced at playing these games than you are. Only pick your battles that are worth fighting, that you can win. It sounds like she is the master at this game. 

 An empty threat from you. He has learned to not take you seriously.... Just sit back and relax and let you calm down.... Then....

Then he comes back and tells you how good you are for him.... This has worked before on you. He has learned from the best, his mother. The cycle will continue until you make good your threat....and make things happen.

Yes to everything you said. I’m a master at the game myself but his mum didn’t have the roadblock that I’m having - she hasn’t had meddling from a manipulator. The only other thing that sets me apart from her is I’m kinder. 
The only thing that’s stopping me leaving him sooner is because he’s capable of harming himself. I wasn’t threatening .. I was serious and actually walking out. He’d take any of my suitcases or other belongings and hide it. Take a bunch of painkillers in front of me .. 

He’s learned from her.. you’re right there too. After she screamed at him on the phone recently how we stressed her even more after our argument in her home a month ago - how dare we etc. we have no idea what she’s going through. She is hanging by a thread .. wants to kill herself 

Makes me think her hubby had stayed due to that 🤔 Never know .. sometimes b****es keep a man besotted particularly without a meddler in the picture. I’m certainly not staying much longer if this continues .. while things are better than they were after I got 6 weeks space early this year, I think an actual break up until/if he gets his s*** together is the only answer 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by AlphaFemme99

[Wiseman2]

Staying with someone who's family is hostile and difficult is a sure road to unhappiness.

She is not your MIL. You have zero obligation to him or his mother.

[AlphaFemme99]

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Staying with someone who's family is hostile and difficult is a sure road to unhappiness.

She is not your MIL. You have zero obligation to him or his mother.

Yes but she would be if I ended up marrying him. It’s clearly not meant to be.

he doesn’t want to let me go but I don’t think he’ll ever understand until he loses me 

[jjomomo]

A difficult relative is doable , as long as you both can see this person is difficult. If he doesn't see her as difficult, that means he thinks your being difficult. If you think the relationship is going to end over it then you have nothing to loose.  You can strait up tell him, it's not you, it's your mother.  If all of his relationships keep ending for the same reason, he may have to take a look at that reason.  It may not help you, but maybe he can prioritize the next relationship better. 

 

[MsJayne]

I'm in late but had to say a great big 'yes' to the actual question. A man whose controlling and manipulative mother has too much influence in his adult life is a man who's never been allowed to grow up, mummy won't let him because then she becomes obsolete - and that's a whole chapter on her mental health issues. The fact that he's threatened suicide if you leave tells you that he's not actually in love with you, he's emotionally dependent on you and they're two very different things. His mother doesn't actually care about his happiness, she cares about maintaining her place in his life and maintaining control over him, and that's why she doesn't like you, you replaced her as No.1 Woman in his life. That's why he's making you responsible for his emotions, mummy used to be in charge of that area and now he's all confused and lost. There's a twisted dynamic going on between him and his mother, and you'd be well out of it. Years ago for a short time I was involved with a Mummy's Boy, and I, (who come from my own highly dysfunctional family so have seen a fair bit of familial lunacy), could hardly believe what I was seeing. He used to start sucking his thumb when his mother was around!!! 😬🤔😂 Like every time he saw her he regressed to a two year old! I think you'd be right to get out of this engagement and be very honest with him about why - his mother's got her hand up his bottom like a puppet. I wouldn't make it about "I'm thinking we should break up because of this...",  it has to be "I'm leaving you because of this...". 

[AlphaFemme99]

31 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

I'm in late but had to say a great big 'yes' to the actual question. A man whose controlling and manipulative mother has too much influence in his adult life is a man who's never been allowed to grow up, mummy won't let him because then she becomes obsolete - and that's a whole chapter on her mental health issues. The fact that he's threatened suicide if you leave tells you that he's not actually in love with you, he's emotionally dependent on you and they're two very different things. His mother doesn't actually care about his happiness, she cares about maintaining her place in his life and maintaining control over him, and that's why she doesn't like you, you replaced her as No.1 Woman in his life. That's why he's making you responsible for his emotions, mummy used to be in charge of that area and now he's all confused and lost. There's a twisted dynamic going on between him and his mother, and you'd be well out of it. Years ago for a short time I was involved with a Mummy's Boy, and I, (who come from my own highly dysfunctional family so have seen a fair bit of familial lunacy), could hardly believe what I was seeing. He used to start sucking his thumb when his mother was around!!! 😬🤔😂 Like every time he saw her he regressed to a two year old! I think you'd be right to get out of this engagement and be very honest with him about why - his mother's got her hand up his bottom like a puppet. I wouldn't make it about "I'm thinking we should break up because of this...",  it has to be "I'm leaving you because of this...". 

Omg that gave me a good laugh. Suck his thumb? 🤣

Mine funnily enough gives her the same attitude in person that he gives me at times .. that teenager kind of outburst. He’s still a pleaser though and will be the one to call and apologise. Last time we visited, she sent him a msg that we were bringing toxic energy to the house because of an argument in our room. She’s supposedly a grieving widow yet she mentioned in a recent text to him that she needs Botox and he’s actually thinking of getting it for her .. even though his surgery is coming up and he’s not in a place to be spending on Botox .. I told him he can start paying for mine from now on. Unbelievable! Instead of buying me nice things he wants to cheer her up with Botox l! We’ve already spoiled her with flowers and gifts recently .. I got her a bag full of nice things like a care pack after her loss then a beautiful gift for her bday .. I get fck all from her 

He still keeps a Teddy she gave him when he left the family home to go overseas and then he lived interstate most of his adult life - that’s why I never picked that she would just step back into his life when he’s taken .. she does it in a conniving way though .. I know he’s getting messages that he won’t tell me about.
It’s why it’s hard to say it’s mainly because of this - I can just pinpoint clear signs from when she first met me but any time I hint at things he would find reasons that sound convincing to himself - ‘she was being careful during covid so couldn’t invite us over’ etc 

 

[MsJayne]

1 hour ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

Suck his thumb?

Yep, like a maniac. The 'thing' between him and his mummy was outright creepy.  He would do it when he was engrossed in a TV show or something, and he'd say he wasn't sucking his thumb, he was rubbing the roof of his mouth, a habit since childhood, (yeah, righto, call it what you want, but it's thumb-sucking 🙄). Anyways, it got real weird when I noticed that whenever his mummy was in his vicinity the thumb-sucking would intensify to the point where he'd start making a snuffly noise, like a baby with a dummy.  I was outa there before he hit on me to do sex with him in a nappy or some other oddball $hit 🤣. 

Aside from that, a woman who was truly devastated by the loss of her husband wouldn't be worrying about her appearance and wanting Botox, she'd be struggling to get through each day for a few months at least, so perhaps she's already putting Operation Second Husband into action. And unless your fiance's well off, he probably can't afford to be paying for frivolous stuff like that for his mother. Whatever, I think you're doing the right thing by backing off so he can deal with these issues, (or not, because disengaging from a toxic parent-child relationship is extremely difficult and many people just can't do it). She has a nerve sending texts about you bringing toxicity into her home, given that it's probably her malignant presence that agitates you and your partner in the first place. Giving a teddy to an adult son when he leaves home is a very telling gesture, and so is his sentimental attachment to it. Perhaps you should shove a big carving knife in Teddy as a parting gesture 😂. I'd be interested to know if the overbearing mother was the reason he lived interstate and also how any previous partners were treated by her. 

[AlphaFemme99]

39 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

Yep, like a maniac. The 'thing' between him and his mummy was outright creepy.  He would do it when he was engrossed in a TV show or something, and he'd say he wasn't sucking his thumb, he was rubbing the roof of his mouth, a habit since childhood, (yeah, righto, call it what you want, but it's thumb-sucking 🙄). Anyways, it got real weird when I noticed that whenever his mummy was in his vicinity the thumb-sucking would intensify to the point where he'd start making a snuffly noise, like a baby with a dummy.  I was outa there before he hit on me to do sex with him in a nappy or some other oddball $hit 🤣. 

Aside from that, a woman who was truly devastated by the loss of her husband wouldn't be worrying about her appearance and wanting Botox, she'd be struggling to get through each day for a few months at least, so perhaps she's already putting Operation Second Husband into action. And unless your fiance's well off, he probably can't afford to be paying for frivolous stuff like that for his mother. Whatever, I think you're doing the right thing by backing off so he can deal with these issues, (or not, because disengaging from a toxic parent-child relationship is extremely difficult and many people just can't do it). She has a nerve sending texts about you bringing toxicity into her home, given that it's probably her malignant presence that agitates you and your partner in the first place. Giving a teddy to an adult son when he leaves home is a very telling gesture, and so is his sentimental attachment to it. Perhaps you should shove a big carving knife in Teddy as a parting gesture 😂. I'd be interested to know if the overbearing mother was the reason he lived interstate and also how any previous partners were treated by her. 

Love your input. You crack me up and seem to have had a very similar experience. 
My one is not scared of anyone and acts all tough guy but has a sensitive side. He actually was closer to his dad but she has this way of making the family feel like they continually had to win her approval. 
 

Mine comes from a somewhat well known family (within an age bracket) so it’s always been about protecting the family name - the mother has stepped in previously when a former gf tried to get money from the family when they used to have it lol .. she was apparently proven guilty in court after his mum showed tape evidence. She’s a piece of work - nothing surprises me in case she orchestrated the conversation after knowing what she’s like but when I first heard this story it’s plausible because b****es do exist. Anyhow she has been the lady of the house so I don’t think any younger, prettier version will ever be welcomed 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

It really depends on what you want for your life.

If it's a happy marriage and starting a family, it's a shame to keep wasting your life away in this scenario.

If you are older and don't want kids, then maybe you have more time to waste on this strange mother-son dynamic.

[AlphaFemme99]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It really depends on what you want for your life.

If it's a happy marriage and starting a family, it's a shame to keep wasting your life away in this scenario.

If you are older and don't want kids, then maybe you have more time to waste on this strange mother-son dynamic.

We both want kids and are loyal. He thinks the relationship is great apart from the setbacks since covid and the loss that have made him depressed... thinks it will all be fine. For me, I can wait 6 months max .. bigger obstacles than I expected 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

. For me, I can wait 6 months max .. 

Excellent. Better than dragging this out so long that you forgo finding a happy healthy partner and relationship.

[AlphaFemme99]

On 6/7/2021 at 8:21 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Excellent. Better than dragging this out so long that you forgo finding a happy healthy partner and relationship.

True. I feel that my life is so different to the person I was before I met him. Constant dates and fun and had the pick of the bunch. Instead I gave a chance to someone that I figured was just in a situational tough spot and he’ll come out of it .. it was no big deal. 

The problem with lowering your standards just because everything else falls into place is the man will be controlling and paranoid if you keep male friends because he’s unsure of himself and knows you could do better - then eventually start dragging you down.
If it wasn’t for covid he almost got a stable job and I could’ve had the chance to see him man up but but awful things keep happening and I can’t keep waiting around to see if his stresses will fade. Finding out he is still trying to win his mother’s approval was the icing on the cake 

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, AlphaFemme99 said:

 I figured was just in a situational tough spot and he’ll come out of it .

Unfortunately it seem the few good times were the snapshot and this is the constant situation.

[Foxhall]

On 6/7/2021 at 1:15 AM, MsJayne said:

mother has too much influence in his adult life is a man who's never been allowed to grow up, mummy won't let him because then she becomes obsolete - 

lol this is partly true I suppose,

I have had some amusing scenarios over the last year with my Mother and girlfriend,

My Mam is old school , straight talker, warrior , she is great though- they dont make them like my mother any more,

girlfriend finds her a bit intimidating however, she is a polite mexican and finds it hard to gel with my mam,

I dont know if any of you are familiar with the movie Only The Lonely- the restaurant scene there where John Candy introduces his girlfriend to his mother- it is quite similar to our situation!

anyway they are beginning to get to know other better I think.

[AlphaFemme99]

On 7/3/2021 at 7:26 PM, Foxhall said:

lol this is partly true I suppose,

I have had some amusing scenarios over the last year with my Mother and girlfriend,

My Mam is old school , straight talker, warrior , she is great though- they dont make them like my mother any more,

girlfriend finds her a bit intimidating however, she is a polite mexican and finds it hard to gel with my mam,

I dont know if any of you are familiar with the movie Only The Lonely- the restaurant scene there where John Candy introduces his girlfriend to his mother- it is quite similar to our situation!

anyway they are beginning to get to know other better I think.

I’ll have to check that film out. Sounds like you have some funny stories 

Mine is on another level though .. spent her life as the wife of someone famous so she thinks she’s all that. She’s the female of the house too so I don’t think she’ll ever want to be de-throned. Makes sense why her sons seem to have been unlucky in love. Things only started to change in my relationship after I met her 

[Lotsgoingon]

Be careful about staying with someone because they threaten suicide. Cold as this might sound, it's not your job to deal with their suicidal thoughts.

Their threats are a form of "terrorism." It's called a "terroristic threat." Either do this or I'll commit violence against myself. It's extremely abusive against you, and no, you are not being "kind" to hang in there. You cannot give someone else the will to live. You can't. It's his job to do that work. You want to put the responsibility for living back on HIS shoulders. 

Google on this topic. Some good search phrases are ... "suicide threats and relationships" ... or "coercive suicide threats" or "If you leave I will kill myself."

I've been on BOTH side of this dynamic, and it is extremely manipulative. And it makes no sense. One relationship does NOT solve a person's deep depression and lack of will to live. Never has. 

[AlphaFemme99]

8 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Be careful about staying with someone because they threaten suicide. Cold as this might sound, it's not your job to deal with their suicidal thoughts.

Their threats are a form of "terrorism." It's called a "terroristic threat." Either do this or I'll commit violence against myself. It's extremely abusive against you, and no, you are not being "kind" to hang in there. You cannot give someone else the will to live. You can't. It's his job to do that work. You want to put the responsibility for living back on HIS shoulders. 

Google on this topic. Some good search phrases are ... "suicide threats and relationships" ... or "coercive suicide threats" or "If you leave I will kill myself."

I've been on BOTH side of this dynamic, and it is extremely manipulative. And it makes no sense. One relationship does NOT solve a person's deep depression and lack of will to live. Never has. 

You’re right .. it’s just so hard now because I gave it last chance and we started counselling recently but he’s lost someone he’s so close to. He’s at tipping point .. I feel stuck leaving now. Really know he could very well go through with it 

Yet there are still things he does that accumulate and leave me at breaking point in the relationship.
Anything I ask him to keep private, he has a way of leaking and always has a reason for it. Something silly this year for example that a woman with issues has accused me of doing that wasn’t true and will soon be proven in court - long story short I’m still embarrassed about it even though im innocent and this shouldn’t have even been put in court .. (power hungry cop) 

 He revealed it to someone in a community group he’s in who got an email defaming him and trying to target his position too and told him he needs the email for: (basically told him my situation)

honestly it’s like he wants to show that if I leave him for the many reasons he’s given me to, he has ammunition that I’m not perfect either 🙄

[Lotsgoingon]

Look, if he hurts himself, that is literally on him and his family and the way he grew up, and his own trauma, his own pain--99.999999 percent of which have NOTHING to do with you.

You cannot save him and you only hurt yourself by acting out of some way to save him.

You really need to call authorities, call his relatives, call public health people, report on his suicidal threats. Otherwise, you're just caught in his chaotic, depressed, unstable mind. Depressed people need treatment, lots of it. A partner does not prevent a depressed person from harming themelves.

 

[kayx52]

 

Remember always "you marry the girl/boy, you marry the family" 

From my own personal experience with my husband's mother, it was a total disaster plus nightmare.  Unfortunately he, her only son, was the the moon and the stars in the atmosphere.  She despised me from the get go, was nicey-nicey to my face but oh, what a difference it was behind my back.  Sadly, my husband would balk at anything I said that as slightly negative about her but then again, he could say all the negatives things himself which he did on more than once occasion.  

She wanted to dominate our lives, tell us how to live, created untold crises that created such friction and sadness.  

Those who are fortunate to have a great mother in law should count themselves most fortunately.  Sadly, I never had that.

Edited July 15, 2021 by kayx52
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