Struggling with end of affair

[hajk]

@Minnie Moo thank you for your update.  I'm glad to hear you have remained non-contact and both blocked.  That's good, so please keep doing that.  I'm sorry you are having a difficult time and can't stop thinking about the exMM.  Please check out the following YouTube videos on how to stop obsessively thinking of someone.  I hope you will find them helpful.

How do we stop obsessively thinking of someone? @Susan Winter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sPkjyUTbw8

How to Break the Loop of Obsesion @Susan Winter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCjMr_JpGcU

Edited April 10, 2021 by hajk

[hajk]

@Minnie Moo also, check out the following

Letting Go Of Someone | Setting Yourself Free | Guided Meditation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icwH04CIXtA

[Minnie Moo]

2 minutes ago, hajk said:

@Minnie Moo also, check out the following

Letting Go Of Someone | Setting Yourself Free | Guided Meditation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icwH04CIXtA

Thanks for these. I’ll have a look. 
Hoping once life gets a bit busier and I can go see people more the reminiscing and wondering and even still ‘hoping’ will slowly diminish. Nothing to hope for anyway but every so often I forget we’re not talking and hope he’ll ring - he won’t and he can’t he’s blocked so why do I still hope 🙈 

Still waiting on the CBT Sessions to come up too.  

I suppose x2 months after being involved a year and a half is being too impatient with myself.  I want the pain to stop but it’s gonna take time.  

[Minnie Moo]

I saw this one on another group earlier as well. It’s got some good advice. 
https://youtu.be/k0GQSJrpVhM

[mark clemson]

You may be experiencing limerence for him, which sometimes gets stronger in dysfunctional "can't have" situations. This is actually a brain change somewhat similar to addiction. IF that's the case it WILL get better in time (for the vast majority of people) but it is likely to take at least a few months, probably more like a year.

Thinks like distractions (books, TV, hobbies), socializing and friendship (to the extent you are able), exercise within your capabilities, and time in nature (at least 10 min/day) can all help, although they will take the edge off, rather than cure it. What will "cure" it is time, as your brain eventually develops "tolerance". But this takes months, not weeks.

IF you can make contact with him essentially impossible, THAT has a chance of shutting it off, as you're brain sort of "gives up" on "bugging you" about the other person. However, it's got to be more or less genuinely impossible and you have to essentially recognize that - it's hard to fool your own brain. Wiping all contact info off your phone/computer, writing it onto pieces of paper, and hiding it under rocks in a faraway park or similar might (or might not) help.

BTW, I can't understand why you told her relatives. You were willing to sleep with the guy, but then when he was apparently done with you but still looking around for others, THEN she needs to know? To me this is vengeance/spite (toward him for not choosing you and/or for seeking OOWs), not "morality" towards her. JMO.

I also don't think it really matters much as he clearly is being incautious and appears a bit "hooked" on all this dancing/sleeping around while married, so it's more likely than not IMO that he'll be caught eventually. Once THAT happens, the relatives will presumably tell and she'll know it was multiple times. But then there will be the big blowup towards THEM for not telling her earlier. The fact that she was with an infant and so (some would reasonably say) in need of "sheltering" will not matter to her then, I think most people's brains just don't work that way. She'll likely just be pissed at them for "betraying" her too. A big mess all around IMO.

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, Minnie Moo said:

I saw this one on another group 

What group?

[Minnie Moo]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

What group?

A widowed support group I’m on. 

[Minnie Moo]

6 hours ago, mark clemson said:

You may be experiencing limerence for him, which sometimes gets stronger in dysfunctional "can't have" situations. This is actually a brain change somewhat similar to addiction. IF that's the case it WILL get better in time (for the vast majority of people) but it is likely to take at least a few months, probably more like a year.

Thinks like distractions (books, TV, hobbies), socializing and friendship (to the extent you are able), exercise within your capabilities, and time in nature (at least 10 min/day) can all help, although they will take the edge off, rather than cure it. What will "cure" it is time, as your brain eventually develops "tolerance". But this takes months, not weeks.

IF you can make contact with him essentially impossible, THAT has a chance of shutting it off, as you're brain sort of "gives up" on "bugging you" about the other person. However, it's got to be more or less genuinely impossible and you have to essentially recognize that - it's hard to fool your own brain. Wiping all contact info off your phone/computer, writing it onto pieces of paper, and hiding it under rocks in a faraway park or similar might (or might not) help.

BTW, I can't understand why you told her relatives. You were willing to sleep with the guy, but then when he was apparently done with you but still looking around for others, THEN she needs to know? To me this is vengeance/spite (toward him for not choosing you and/or for seeking OOWs), not "morality" towards her. JMO.

I also don't think it really matters much as he clearly is being incautious and appears a bit "hooked" on all this dancing/sleeping around while married, so it's more likely than not IMO that he'll be caught eventually. Once THAT happens, the relatives will presumably tell and she'll know it was multiple times. But then there will be the big blowup towards THEM for not telling her earlier. The fact that she was with an infant and so (some would reasonably say) in need of "sheltering" will not matter to her then, I think most people's brains just don't work that way. She'll likely just be pissed at them for "betraying" her too. A big mess all around IMO.

Hi. 
the limerence thought makes sense and it likely is. Instead of focussing on the pain and upset and stress the situation caused me my brain keeps trying to fool me with the amazing way he made me feel and the romanticism of what he told me (lies I now know)

It will take time and plenty of distraction to stop me ruminating over it all and wishing to speak to him again.  
 

He wasn’t ‘done’ with me when I ended things. He was keeping me on the bench as ‘just friends’ until after the baby was born and we were back to dancing.  He still continued to flirt and be ‘sexy’ with me over messenger/phone even after telling me we couldn’t anymore.  
I don’t think he actually has anyone else particularly on the go atm due to lockdown and from what others who know him have said I seemed to be his main source for the time he was with me.  
 

The whole thing is a big massive mess and I agree. It was unfair to place the decision on her family as to whether she should know or not. I had no way of contacting her or him directly though.  
I don’t want her to know so she can kick him out and he can come running to me. With everything else I’ve found out about him I wouldn’t now trust him in the slightest and seriously questioning his character.
But I do believe she needs to have the knowledge to decide for herself what should happen in their marriage and not have him carrying on regardless once dancing starts up again and he can be off seeking other sources of attention once more.  

I’m not trying to be righteous and assuage my guilt by telling her  - the guilt will eat away at me for a long time I’m sure, I’m an expert in beating myself up, there’s nothing anyone can say that will be worse than what I’ve already told myself.    
If she finds out and decides to forgive him/let him stay then I hope he spends the rest of his days making it up to her x100 times over as that’s what he should do. 
 
Her knowing will also hopefully mean he doesn’t come near me ever again so from that point of view yes it was a selfish decision but I need to have any bridge to him well and truly burnt. 
 

I simply wish I had never met him and that I could go back to the night I did and not even dance with him because I honestly don’t think I’ll ever forgive myself.  

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, Minnie Moo said:

I just still seem incapable of getting there despite the no contact, despite telling his wife’s family, despite making a huge list of all the negative things about the affair and him personally and despite going out more, doing projects at home, garden etc and booking things in for the future. It’s just not happening. I still can’t stop caring/wanting/missing. 
 

Unfortunately that's because it's not about him or his family.

It's about your loneliness and grief.

This is not about trendy infidelity terms like limerence etc.

It's about not seeing a physician about your health. It's about untreated mood and anxiety issues.

Stop this path of self destruction and self defeating behaviors. Enlist the help of a qualified therapist.

Destroying other marriages because you're grieving indicates that you need some help finding better coping techniques.

You'll have one heartache after the next until you address the real problems. 

[Minnie Moo]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately that's because it's not about him or his family.

It's about your loneliness and grief.

This is not about trendy infidelity terms like limerence etc.

It's about not seeing a physician about your health. It's about untreated mood and anxiety issues.

Stop this path of self destruction and self defeating behaviors. Enlist the help of a qualified therapist.

Destroying other marriages because you're grieving indicates that you need some help finding better coping techniques.

You'll have one heartache after the next until you address the real problems. 

I know I’m broken. I know I deserve this. I know I’ve caused hurt and upset to others. If I could take it all back I would. 
If I could apologise and make everything right again I would too.   

I’m awaiting CBT therapy. 
 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

I’m awaiting CBT therapy. 

In the meantime see a physician for a complete evaluation.

[Minnie Moo]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

In the meantime see a physician for a complete evaluation.

A doctor would just refer me to the same counselling service I’ve already been in touch with and now on their waiting list. I’m not sure what else a GP would be able to offer other than antidepressants.  
Ive made some stupid, unforgivable, totally against character decisions and I’m a horrible person for doing so. I get that.  A doctor isn’t going to be able to change my view of myself.  
If I could apologise to everyone and make it right again somehow I would in a heartbeat. 

[Wiseman2]

Just now, Minnie Moo said:

. I’m not sure what else a GP would be able to offer other than antidepressants.  

It's not about self flogging. No one is interested in that..

You don't know what an evaluation could uncover health wise and mental health wise. 

Especially with protracted ruminating, guilt, sadness, self destruction etc.

A medical evaluation is for you. Your overall health and wellness

This pity party and self flagellation is dragging you deeper and deeper into your depression.

 

 

[Minnie Moo]

@Wiseman2

His marriage isn’t destroyed.  
It appears to be (as per their posts from last Friday’s wedding anniversary) perfectly intact. 

[Minnie Moo]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's not about self flogging. No one is interested in that..

You don't know what an evaluation could uncover health wise and mental health wise. 

Especially with protracted ruminating, guilt, sadness, self destruction etc.

A medical evaluation is for you. Your overall health and wellness

This pity party and self flagellation is dragging you deeper and deeper into your depression.

 

 

I self flog. I always have done. 
I don’t expect anyone’s pity or sympathy. Never have and I don’t think that would help me in the slightest. 
I can’t change what’s now been done. 
I can’t make any of it ‘right’ again 

Once the CBT starts hopefully things will improve mentally.  

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Minnie Moo said:

@Wiseman2His marriage isn’t destroyed.  

Exactly . So now it's time to stop ruminating about it and take care of yourself.

Cheaters destroy other's lives, not their own. He managed to keep his marriage intact because cheaters are liars.

The same rubbish as he told you, he told his wife. "It meant nothing, she's just some psycho".

Married people who cheat obviously can't be trusted with your heart.

[Snakesalive]

19 hours ago, Minnie Moo said:

doubt they’ll actually tell her anyway - they’re scared they’ll lose access to the kid

Or because they know she’ll be devastated, feel betrayed, hurt , angry -all the things you probably feel too -the difference is she’s had no clue he’s been doing this -you did -sorry I know that sounds harsh 

[Minnie Moo]

1 hour ago, Snakesalive said:

Or because they know she’ll be devastated, feel betrayed, hurt , angry -all the things you probably feel too -the difference is she’s had no clue he’s been doing this -you did -sorry I know that sounds harsh 

not harsh  I do feel all those things but think at x5 years of marriage and x2 kids he’s the one who’s made a conscious decision over and over to destroy it by choosing to step outside of his vows  I stupidly believed his lies and enabled him to. 

Her auntie said she agreed that she needed to know, that he was a scumbag and she’ll be stupid if she decides to forgive and stay with him.
 Not once did they question what I’d told them or deny it or stick up for him. Which to me suggests they (and/or her) either suspect him already or he’s done similar before (which he has) 

You’re right  - even if confronted with it he’ll likely deny, minimise, blame shift, call me crazy, tell her I meant nothing and lie like heck to save himself and if she believes that then that’s her choice.  I’m not trying to split them up. I doubt she’d kick him out anyway. But she does deserve to have the information at some point before they get to x10 year anniversary and x4 kids and she is totally and utterly stuck. 

If someone was stealing from me. I would want to know.  

[Snakesalive]

24 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

not harsh  I do feel all those things but think at x5 years of marriage and x2 kids he’s the one who’s made a conscious decision over and over to destroy it by choosing to step outside of his vows  I stupidly believed his lies and enabled him to. 

Her auntie said she agreed that she needed to know, that he was a scumbag and she’ll be stupid if she decides to forgive and stay with him.
 Not once did they question what I’d told them or deny it or stick up for him. Which to me suggests they (and/or her) either suspect him already or he’s done similar before (which he has) 

You’re right  - even if confronted with it he’ll likely deny, minimise, blame shift, call me crazy, tell her I meant nothing and lie like heck to save himself and if she believes that then that’s her choice.  I’m not trying to split them up. I doubt she’d kick him out anyway. But she does deserve to have the information at some point before they get to x10 year anniversary and x4 kids and she is totally and utterly stuck. 

If someone was stealing from me. I would want to know.  

 I guess for your own sanity the damage to his wife and family etc is one part of the story you have to try to let go , focussing instead on you , your recovery and healing from the traumas you’ve experienced . 
 

[Minnie Moo]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Exactly . So now it's time to stop ruminating about it and take care of yourself.

Cheaters destroy other's lives, not their own. He managed to keep his marriage intact because cheaters are liars.

The same rubbish as he told you, he told his wife. "It meant nothing, she's just some psycho".

Married people who cheat obviously can't be trusted with your heart.

Not sure married people who cheat should be trusted with anything full stop.  

he’ll know full well just how much damage he’s caused me - but that’s of no consequence because he’s saved his own skin and gotten away with it and knows I’ll be internalising all the blame and shame for it all.  

 

 

[Minnie Moo]

20 minutes ago, Snakesalive said:

 I guess for your own sanity the damage to his wife and family etc is one part of the story you have to try to let go , focussing instead on you , your recovery and healing from the traumas you’ve experienced . 
 

Maybe they’ll never tell her and she can live in blissful ignorance for the rest of their days together 🤷🏼‍♀️ 

I uncovered a massive amount of personal debts when my husband died and a lot of paid subscriptions to hard core porn sites, gambling etc.  
I never had a clue. And now he’s not here I cannot resolve any of that with him and feel cheated out of the time, attention and money he spent on it all.  I’d rather have known and been able to either stay and help or make a decision to end things if he couldn’t live honestly with me. 
 

Telling her family felt like less of a betrayal from my side of things than not telling them did for her to find out maybe in years to come. 

There isn’t a right or wrong answer to it all unfortunately 😞 

[mark clemson]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's about your loneliness and grief.

This is not about trendy infidelity terms like limerence etc. ... It's about untreated mood and anxiety issues.

While I don't entirely disagree with your advice, I would point out (as the guy who brought up limerence) that THAT is a best guess based on a series of forum posts.

Limerence may be trendy right now, but the psychological phenomenon is certainly real and has been around for probably as long as modern humans (if not longer) just like mood and anxiety disorders probably have been (and all mostly unrecognized for a long time too).

My point is that Moo here might feel a lot better in 6 months if/when her limerence finally wears off (assuming she has it, which I concede is a guess). Certainly limerence in an affair situation is just going to exacerbate the stress of any mood and anxiety issues (assuming she has any).

There's certainly nothing wrong with seeking counseling/CBT given that Moo is in genuine emotional distress (for whichever reasons).

[mark clemson]

35 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

Telling her family felt like less of a betrayal from my side of things than not telling them did for her to find out maybe in years to come. 
There isn’t a right or wrong answer to it all unfortunately 😞 

I suppose that (once the situation actually exists) that is true. There are those who see informing as a moral imperative and those who see not informing as a moral imperative, so it can go both ways. It's worth pointing out that there's a tendency for morals to shift over time as well as to align to practical matters, including for many people their emotional needs and/or the things they simply decide they want to do anyhow.  For example "thou shalt not kill" but when it came to "conquering the New World" it was all about "saving souls" (not "bodies"). So suddenly conquest becomes "righteous" etc.

Obviously a discussion of all THAT is way outside the topic of your thread.

Edited April 11, 2021 by mark clemson

[Minnie Moo]

21 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

I suppose that (once the situation actually exists) that is true. There are those who see informing as a moral imperative and those who see not informing as a moral imperative, so it can go both ways. It's worth pointing out that there's a tendency for morals to shift over time as well as to align to practical matters, including for many people their emotional needs and/or the things they simply decide they want to do anyhow.  For example "thou shalt not kill" but when it came to "conquering the New World" it was all about "saving souls" (not "bodies"). So suddenly conquest becomes "righteous" etc.

Obviously a discussion of all THAT is way outside the topic of your thread.

Blimey. Yes a discussion of all THAT would be way outside the topic of my thread but as I’m currently losing the will to carry on painting my daughter’s bedroom it might be a good distraction 😂😂😂

[Minnie Moo]

26 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

I suppose that (once the situation actually exists) that is true. There are those who see informing as a moral imperative and those who see not informing as a moral imperative, so it can go both ways. It's worth pointing out that there's a tendency for morals to shift over time as well as to align to practical matters, including for many people their emotional needs and/or the things they simply decide they want to do anyhow.  For example "thou shalt not kill" but when it came to "conquering the New World" it was all about "saving souls" (not "bodies"). So suddenly conquest becomes "righteous" etc.

Obviously a discussion of all THAT is way outside the topic of your thread.

There was someone a few pages back who commented and wrote very eloquently about why the betrayed spouse should really know. I read that and both my head and heart agreed it was the right decision to make at the time. 
it wasn’t done with malicious bad intentions. It was done with the hope it would somehow make a bit of ‘right and honesty’ out of a lot of wrong.  However misguided some might say I am for doing that I cannot now undo it and can only hope that shes either never going to find out or if she does she’s either strong enough to a) leave him or b) make him behave himself for the rest of their married life . 
sadly I don’t think he’s at all capable of option B but that’s for them to work out should it ever come to that.