Struggling with end of affair

[Snakesalive]

1 hour ago, Minnie Moo said:

Maybe they’ll never tell her and she can live in blissful ignorance for the rest of their days together 🤷🏼‍♀️ 

I uncovered a massive amount of personal debts when my husband died and a lot of paid subscriptions to hard core porn sites, gambling etc.  
I never had a clue. And now he’s not here I cannot resolve any of that with him and feel cheated out of the time, attention and money he spent on it all.  I’d rather have known and been able to either stay and help or make a decision to end things if he couldn’t live honestly with me. 
 

Telling her family felt like less of a betrayal from my side of things than not telling them did for her to find out maybe in years to come. 

There isn’t a right or wrong answer to it all unfortunately 😞 

Really sorry to hear that @Minnie Moo I’m so sorry that happened to you . I guess what’s important is finding a way to  get some closure  and  peace . I guess accepting other people won’t or can’t give us the closure we seek is important and dealing with  the anger and bitterness-but I know you know all that . I hope it helps to know we are listening ❤️
 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Minnie Moo said:

 if she does she’s either strong enough to

a) leave him or

b) make him behave himself for the rest of their married life . 

C. He tells her you're a Fatal Attraction psycho, it meant nothing, it was a one-time mistake and they live happily ever after . That's usually what creeps like this tell their wives when they are found out.

 You need to stop worrying about him/them. They are certainly not worried about you.

[Minnie Moo]

1 hour ago, Snakesalive said:

Really sorry to hear that @Minnie Moo I’m so sorry that happened to you . I guess what’s important is finding a way to  get some closure  and  peace . I guess accepting other people won’t or can’t give us the closure we seek is important and dealing with  the anger and bitterness-but I know you know all that . I hope it helps to know we are listening ❤️
 

It helps a lot. 
This group has been a fantastic source of help, stern words and comfort when needed too.  
It’s a situation I wish I’d had enough wits about myself at the time to have not gotten myself into but it’s good to know there are people out there who ‘get it’ and can offer words of wisdom and the benefit of experience.  Really do appreciate it.  

[Minnie Moo]

43 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

C. He tells her you're a Fatal Attraction psycho, it meant nothing, it was a one-time mistake and they live happily ever after . That's usually what creeps like this tell their wives when they are found out.

 You need to stop worrying about him/them. They are certainly not worried about you.

That’s probably what he’s already told her if she’s guessed or the auntie and cousin have said anything.

If they haven’t said anything yet then they do have a full proper version of events at their disposal should the time arise that his wife chooses to stop believing his bullshit.  

[Stupidkupid]

58 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

That’s probably what he’s already told her if she’s guessed or the auntie and cousin have said anything.

If they haven’t said anything yet then they do have a full proper version of events at their disposal should the time arise that his wife chooses to stop believing his bullshit.  

This is what they often do. And no matter how implausable the BS will believe what they need to, to get through.

Someone I know joined her MM on a business trip to Washington (from Scotland). When the BS discovered this, the MM told his BS that the AP had followed her without asking (somehow, despite his insistence that he and the AP no longer spoke) and when she showed up at his hotel (somehow in possession of the date and time of his arrival and where he was staying) he let her stay as she had nowhere else to go.

In reality they had travelled together the whole way. The BS told the AP in a call this and the AP asked her if she was completely delusional. I don't condone taking that line, I might add, with someone who is desperate and hurting but in this case it seemed yo shake something loose in both the AP and the BS who both proceded to leave MM and move on with their lives.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Stupidkupid
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[Minnie Moo]

21 minutes ago, Stupidkupid said:

This is what they often do. And no matter how implausable the BS will believe what they need to, to get through.

Someone I know joined her MM on a business trip to Washington (from Scotland). When the BS discovered this, the MM told his BS that the AP had followed her without asking (somehow, despite his insistence that he and the AP no longer spoke) and when she showed up at his hotel (somehow in possession of the date and time of his arrival and where he was staying) he let her stay as she had nowhere else to go.

In reality they had travelled together the whole way. The BS told the AP in a call this and the AP asked her if she was completely delusional. I don't condone taking that line, I might add, with someone who is desperate and hurting but in this case it seemed yo shake something loose in both the AP and the BS who both proceded to leave MM and move on with their lives.

😳 Wow! That’s some serious bare faced lying for sure.  And just goes to show how desperate they are not to get caught....and in his case - again!

 Good for both women that they both ended up leaving him eventually. 
I think my ex MM’s wife (and her family) are very Catholic and from what I’ve been told she’s quite reserved and proper. The home keeper and child raiser whilst he’s out at work, dancing or fishing and doing goodness knows what with whomever he likes.  
I doubt leaving/divorce would be an option for her but then again if he has been in trouble before and this betrayal comes to light maybe it’ll be a step too far and he won’t be able to blag his way out of it. Who knows. 🤷🏼‍♀️
 

[Stupidkupid]

3 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

😳 Wow! That’s some serious bare faced lying for sure.  And just goes to show how desperate they are not to get caught....and in his case - again!

 Good for both women that they both ended up leaving him eventually. 
I think my ex MM’s wife (and her family) are very Catholic and from what I’ve been told she’s quite reserved and proper. The home keeper and child raiser whilst he’s out at work, dancing or fishing and doing goodness knows what with whomever he likes.  
I doubt leaving/divorce would be an option for her but then again if he has been in trouble before and this betrayal comes to light maybe it’ll be a step too far and he won’t be able to blag his way out of it. Who knows. 🤷🏼‍♀️
 

I know. Quite.

I know how difficult it is to kind of let go. Especially given all you've been through. Letting go of thoughts of that person and of their lives and family and wives etc

But when you get there, and most people eventually do. Its such a relief. 

[Minnie Moo]

5 minutes ago, Stupidkupid said:

I know. Quite.

I know how difficult it is to kind of let go. Especially given all you've been through. Letting go of thoughts of that person and of their lives and family and wives etc

But when you get there, and most people eventually do. Its such a relief. 

I really do hope so. The relief to not be beating myself up over it or worrying  about him/them or wondering what the hell will happen should I bump into him again totally stumps me from thinking about anything else some days.  Nights are my nemesis for overthinking though.    

[Stupidkupid]

3 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

I really do hope so. The relief to not be beating myself up over it or worrying  about him/them or wondering what the hell will happen should I bump into him again totally stumps me from thinking about anything else some days.  Nights are my nemesis for overthinking though.    

It was the same for me. Nights were awful. 

I downloaded mindless games onto my phone. Tetris and that kind of thing. Audiobooks helped me fall to sleep, sometimes too.

I had a long affair (although not as long as many). I had weekly therapy. Took time but one day I was just... not always thinking about it. All the time. 

I learnt so much about myself and my behaviour through therapy after the affair.

I feel for you but honest therapy and stupid phone games were a lifeline. Forums similar to this. Where people were honest and yet still supportive.

You will get there but it does have to be a conscious choice.

[Minnie Moo]

3 minutes ago, Stupidkupid said:

It was the same for me. Nights were awful. 

I downloaded mindless games onto my phone. Tetris and that kind of thing. Audiobooks helped me fall to sleep, sometimes too.

I had a long affair (although not as long as many). I had weekly therapy. Took time but one day I was just... not always thinking about it. All the time. 

I learnt so much about myself and my behaviour through therapy after the affair.

I feel for you but honest therapy and stupid phone games were a lifeline. Forums similar to this. Where people were honest and yet still supportive.

You will get there but it does have to be a conscious choice.

I’m rubbish at those phone games.  I read a heck of a lot of books. Even if I’m not actually reading them properly it’s taking my brain somewhere else.  
Am waiting for CBT therapy to start. 
Am reading lots of things on here and looking at the you tube talks and trying to focus on other things too. Some days I manage it. Even a few in a row some weeks.  
Nights I end up going crazy though.  I think it’s because that’s mainly when he would ring me when he was out fishing - I don’t even like fishing but have so much useless knowledge in my head about it now that I’m amazed I wasn’t bored to tears by his convos.

I think a big part of my problem is that keeping secrets really doesn’t sit well with me and it did cause me so much disconnection between my head and my heart when it was happening that my relief usually comes from having the truth of a situation and then I can work out how to deal with/move on from it.  
Atm I still feel the weight of carrying round a huge secret. 

[Wiseman2]

Hope this helps. Have you ever heard the logic riddle  "All poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles"? 

Well that's how it is with cheaters and liars. Not all liars are cheaters, but all cheaters are liars.

[Minnie Moo]

22 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Hope this helps. Have you ever heard the logic riddle  "All poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles"? 

Well that's how it is with cheaters and liars. Not all liars are cheaters, but all cheaters are liars.

Never heard that before but like it very very much.  
thank you 😊 

[Stupidkupid]

26 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

I’m rubbish at those phone games.  I read a heck of a lot of books. Even if I’m not actually reading them properly it’s taking my brain somewhere else.  
Am waiting for CBT therapy to start. 
Am reading lots of things on here and looking at the you tube talks and trying to focus on other things too. Some days I manage it. Even a few in a row some weeks.  
Nights I end up going crazy though.  I think it’s because that’s mainly when he would ring me when he was out fishing - I don’t even like fishing but have so much useless knowledge in my head about it now that I’m amazed I wasn’t bored to tears by his convos.

I think a big part of my problem is that keeping secrets really doesn’t sit well with me and it did cause me so much disconnection between my head and my heart when it was happening that my relief usually comes from having the truth of a situation and then I can work out how to deal with/move on from it.  
Atm I still feel the weight of carrying round a huge secret. 

This is how i finally ended the affair with my MM. Remove everything about what he was doing but I was lying to people I loved too... why? Because I knew what i was doing was wrong. And it was so very far away from the person I wanted to be.

No contact. Blocked him EVERYWHERE and deleted any details I didn't need to keep for the blocking to work. Then I threw myself head long and with all my committment into therapy.

I hope you get the CBT appointment through soon. Its bot an instant fix and you have to work at it but you will be okay.

Reading is good... chatting with people us also good. I know thats tough in the middle of the night but CBT may help you with the thinking "this is when he would call"

I hope you're reading something engrossing.

There is this forum too. I have been a member for years but only ever read until i logged back on recently. I think there are good people here.

[Stupidkupid]

29 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Hope this helps. Have you ever heard the logic riddle  "All poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles"? 

Well that's how it is with cheaters and liars. Not all liars are cheaters, but all cheaters are liars.

Oh yeah.

I just said on another thread that i latterly discovered that during my Affair MM was mostly truthful but... not.

Even the truth was a lie as he would exaggerate or underplay things to the extent that it waa still true... just about.

So even the truth is probably a lie in an affair.

Example, "we never have sex"

Read "we have sex every couple of months"  etc

[Minnie Moo]

6 minutes ago, Stupidkupid said:

Oh yeah.

I just said on another thread that i latterly discovered that during my Affair MM was mostly truthful but... not.

Even the truth was a lie as he would exaggerate or underplay things to the extent that it waa still true... just about.

So even the truth is probably a lie in an affair.

Example, "we never have sex"

Read "we have sex every couple of months"  etc

This exactly. 
A Convo I had with a lady who knew him well and we compared notes on what he’d told us. There was always a slight difference in the versions he told - Presumably depending on what he thought would have the better effect on each of us at the time. 
 

When he phoned me after I discovered the pregnancy I said ‘but you told me you never had sex’ His aggressive and unbelievable reply was that ‘we only had sex x3 times’ As though that was an acceptable answer?! 🤷🏼‍♀️
 

his reply to me sending him the photo of his wife with the baby bump that I screenshot from FB was ‘I just never told you’ He’d had x 5 months to drop it into one of our many long conversations 🤷🏼‍♀️

He’d convinced himself that lying by omission isn’t actually lying.  
 

I hated that I was lying to my family and friends and that I was keeping such a big secret from them. I’m lucky that I do have such fantastic friends and they’ve all been really supportive and understanding. My dance friends especially as they’ve seen/experienced him in action. They’re kicking themselves for not having realised to warn me sooner and they’re kicking me for not having come to them with the problem in the first place.  
 

lesson learnt on that one. I have great friends. If I’m doing something I’m keeping secret from them then I really shouldn’t be doing it.  

[Stupidkupid]

2 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

 

lesson learnt on that one. I have great friends. If I’m doing something I’m keeping secret from them then I really shouldn’t be doing it.  

Totally.

In respect of the pregnant wife, and him "not telling you" if i remember correctly you outright asked him? I mean. The mental gymnastics we use to justify what we're doing when in an affair is actually mind blowing.

He treated you badly. Hes treating her badly. I hope you start to find some peace soon. You deserve better than him and the way hes treated you and you deserve better than tormenting yourself about his life.

As i said above, getting through the ending and letting go is a conscious decision. Its a little like quitting alcohol. You have to really want to get better and to move past it. Then every day gets slowly easier.

A lot of it is that you're losing a habit. So, for me, i couldn't fully concentrate in reading books (which I've always loved to do) after the affair (or during!) as we would message each other constantly. So i was always checking ny phone. That was a tough habit to break. But i did it. And you'll do it too

[Minnie Moo]

11 minutes ago, Stupidkupid said:

Totally.

In respect of the pregnant wife, and him "not telling you" if i remember correctly you outright asked him? I mean. The mental gymnastics we use to justify what we're doing when in an affair is actually mind blowing.

He treated you badly. Hes treating her badly. I hope you start to find some peace soon. You deserve better than him and the way hes treated you and you deserve better than tormenting yourself about his life.

As i said above, getting through the ending and letting go is a conscious decision. Its a little like quitting alcohol. You have to really want to get better and to move past it. Then every day gets slowly easier.

A lot of it is that you're losing a habit. So, for me, i couldn't fully concentrate in reading books (which I've always loved to do) after the affair (or during!) as we would message each other constantly. So i was always checking ny phone. That was a tough habit to break. But i did it. And you'll do it too

Yes I did ask him outright. A simple text in October last year ‘Is S**** pregant?’ 
He put back ‘why do you think that?’ 
I said ‘is she?’ 
he Ignored me till the next day when his answer on the phone was ‘she’s been in hospital poorly, she’s fine now’ 

They actually conceived in the August so till Dec 29th he’d had 5 months to have told me.  
 

I can’t even think what made me think of it at the time and he convinced me I was being silly asking so I dropped the subject. Until Dec 29th anyway! 
 

He is a very hard habit to break though. I am really struggling to distract myself but you have been there/done that and come out the other side so I need to try have a bit more faith that it can be done and I will get there. Thank you 😊 

[Minnie Moo]

1 hour ago, Stupidkupid said:

think there are good people here.

There most definitely are 😊 
When I feel my resolve slipping I often come back and re read everyone’s advice and support. It’s a big help.  

[Snakesalive]

10 hours ago, Minnie Moo said:

I’m rubbish at those phone games.  I read a heck of a lot of books. Even if I’m not actually reading them properly it’s taking my brain somewhere else.  
Am waiting for CBT therapy to start. 
Am reading lots of things on here and looking at the you tube talks and trying to focus on other things too. Some days I manage it. Even a few in a row some weeks.  
Nights I end up going crazy though.  I think it’s because that’s mainly when he would ring me when he was out fishing - I don’t even like fishing but have so much useless knowledge in my head about it now that I’m amazed I wasn’t bored to tears by his convos.

I think a big part of my problem is that keeping secrets really doesn’t sit well with me and it did cause me so much disconnection between my head and my heart when it was happening that my relief usually comes from having the truth of a situation and then I can work out how to deal with/move on from it.  
Atm I still feel the weight of carrying round a huge secret. 

I’m reading the self forgiveness handbook , it talks about guilt being an anchor and how you have to lift the anchor in order to move on and progress otherwise you’ll stay stuck , there are lots of practical exercises to do in the book too   , also talks about the power of journaling which I’ve recently started as another tool in the box to get over the affair. 
I can so relate to everything you’ve said, one of the things I really struggled with is that I was to blame for discovery day and I’ve had tremendous misplaced guilt about it . This seemed to override the guilt I felt over for my husband day. Such is the craziness of an affair . I’m finally feeling like there is light at the end of the tunnel but I know it takes lots of time and using everything in the  box of tools to get over it

 

[Snakesalive]

9 hours ago, Minnie Moo said:

He’d convinced himself that lying by omission isn’t actually lying.  

So true -when I think back this was a real theme in my  relationship . So I found it harder to challenge him because he hadn’t actually lied about things even though he had by omission if that makes  sense! It’s all in the mind games and manipulation that’s part of an affair . 
 

[Minnie Moo]

59 minutes ago, Snakesalive said:

So true -when I think back this was a real theme in my  relationship . So I found it harder to challenge him because he hadn’t actually lied about things even though he had by omission if that makes  sense! It’s all in the mind games and manipulation that’s part of an affair . 
 

Makes total sense! 
My ex MM didn’t even realise (or chose not to) that lying by omission was even a thing.
He assumed that by not telling me (or his wife) something that there were no lies involved. Beggars belief really.  His worst one was not telling me he was married when we first met. 
I didn’t have the best of marriages and many times tried/wanted to leave but it was never that I had someone lined up on the side to leave for. And if I went out I always had my wedding ring on and always said I was married if anyone tried chatting  me up.
 People who don’t state they’re married at the outset have clearly worked out that it’s worth their while not to. 
I did ask him but his answer was ‘I have a 2 year old little boy’ 

Classic misdirection of seeming to answer the question whilst not providing a direct answer at all.  
I then assumed he was separated/divorced or widowed and didn’t want to discuss it at the time and we carried on flirting and he carried on charming me.  
 

On the occasions I did challenge him on something I was made out to be the crazy, paranoid, suspicious one and he would shout the answer at me over and over and then ignore me for days afterwards.  
 ‘one does protest too much’ should’ve entered my head but I was too busy trying to apologise and make peace. 

So so blinded by it all 😞 

I’ll have a look for the self forgiveness book. Sounds really helpful.  

[Snakesalive]

24 minutes ago, Minnie Moo said:

Classic misdirection of seeming to answer the question whilst not providing a direct answer at all.  

Absolutely-the things I’ve found out now it’s ended are crazy -although I’m not sure I’ve actually found them out -more they were there all the time-I just ignored them.
Not long ago  We went on a business trip, when I got in the car he told me he’d left his wife -you can imagine my heart and head went into overdrive-I listened to him for the next couple of days as he told me this was the start for us -just that we’d have to wait a while so no one would suspect we’d been in an affair (for 6 years! I realise now ( with the help of this forum and therapy)  he lied by omission-his wife thought they were on a break ( he omitted to tell me this) while he addressed an addiction to a recreational drug that had seen he and her involved in sex clubs threesomes etc  ( he blamed the drugs on this behaviour-his  way of coping with being in a loveless marriage) there are days I feel like such an unbelievable idiot -today is one of them

[Minnie Moo]

34 minutes ago, Snakesalive said:

Absolutely-the things I’ve found out now it’s ended are crazy -although I’m not sure I’ve actually found them out -more they were there all the time-I just ignored them.
Not long ago  We went on a business trip, when I got in the car he told me he’d left his wife -you can imagine my heart and head went into overdrive-I listened to him for the next couple of days as he told me this was the start for us -just that we’d have to wait a while so no one would suspect we’d been in an affair (for 6 years! I realise now ( with the help of this forum and therapy)  he lied by omission-his wife thought they were on a break ( he omitted to tell me this) while he addressed an addiction to a recreational drug that had seen he and her involved in sex clubs threesomes etc  ( he blamed the drugs on this behaviour-his  way of coping with being in a loveless marriage) there are days I feel like such an unbelievable idiot -today is one of them

You are not an unbelievable idiot.  You might feel like one (as I do) but you’re not.  You believed what someone you loved told you (or didn’t tell you) at the time.  Just means we’re human and wanting to love and be loved.  
Hugs 🤗 

[Minnie Moo]

Ps. @Snakesalive 6 years!
He’s a master at the lies and manipulation to have kept it all going for that long 😳

[Snakesalive]

2 hours ago, Minnie Moo said:

Ps. @Snakesalive 6 years!
He’s a master at the lies and manipulation to have kept it all going for that long 😳

I take responsibility for my part in that I wanted to believe everything-wanted the happy ending that was never going to be . Even in my darkest days I  do  a reality check and remember that it was only at the end that he showed me who he really was -everything leading up to it wasn’t real .