do you think she cheated?

[Alfano]

We have been together 9 years. Lived together for 7. I moved out 3 months ago due to strife and conflict, but we planned to continue to work on things from our separate spaces. Sex never an issue, probably a few times per week, neither of us ever rejected the other, always was satisfactory (at least as far as I can tell).

She knows a guy will call him Chad. They met at her job around the time we first started dating 9 years ago. After I moved out and we broke up and reconciled a few times she told me she went to a few places with him that I was never interested in including Art galleriess, museums, opera. She lives in the suburbs but traveled to a city to go to these places. After we reconciled one of these times she told me that after the museum she went back to his apartment to use the bathroom. Wwhy tell me she went back there at all?  They don't have bathrooms in museums?

She has always been the one calling me, upwards of a half dozen times per day because she liked to stay connected. She's the anxious clingy attachment style, I'm an avoidant and don't need so much contact but I was always responsive. After we broke up she tried to be more independent and called less, I tried to be more responsive and called her a bit more. Few weeks ago after reconciling again, I called her and she said "what's going on?" but she sounded preoccupied. I said "are you busy" she said "no, on the phone with Chad planning a trip to the Botanical Gardens next week. He knows all the plants and flowers". The trip was planned during one of our breakups. Now I don't like those other places but we've been to the Gardens before and I enjoyed them. She said "I'll call you back" and got off the line with me and back to him. She didn't return my call for over an hour.

He occasionally was crew on some dude's sailboat. She went sailing with him at least once, probably more.

Shortly after we first me we went to a party at Chad's house. We drank a bit, and smoked some weed so our minds were a bit "altered". He said something to her in a negative way about her job- which she takes very seriously- but her hurt reaction was extreme. One of Chad's work friends (a woman who was also his roommate for a while and a close friend) never spoke to my girlfriend after the scene she made at the party, she almost ruined it. I took her for a walk to cool down, when we returned to the party her and Chad went into the living room to talk about it. They were in there a while, maybe a half hour. I finally walked in, they were so engrossed in conversation they didn't notice me at first and when they did they immediately got up and were acting very guilty. There was a lot of awkwardness to say the least.

In recent years she told me that while at work when on a break they took walks around the building to discuss work matters. Again why tell me at all?

She told me years ago that she found him attractive and he's the type of guy she would date, and she refers to him as being very intelligent- as she has me. It's a very important quality for her as she too is very intelligent.

When she and her exhusband split up a few years before we met, they were separated but living in the same house. She told me she went on a spree- picking up guys in bars and screwing them left and right. Her exhusband had no clue until he caught on to one of them and ended up punching the guy. She said she "was in a bad place" and was drinking a lot and she's made huge strides in mindfulness and not "behaving badly". She probably goes a dozen AA meetings per week and has been sober 2 years. She seems to be in a better place but who knows.

She gives great BJs. I have commented on how talented she is and sort of gently said I guess she's got experience. She said she never did much if anything like that with any other guy including her exhusband. Recently she was having a bad night, was angry at her exhusband for something to do with their son, was complaining about him and said he's so selfish all he wanted when they first met was blowjobs. Deception doesn't seem to be an issue for her.

Thoughts?

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Alfano

[d0nnivain]

After 9 years together, living together for 7, when you moved out 3 months ago due to whatever strife that needed to be the end of it.  After all that time if you couldn't make a relationship work while under the same roof, there is no way it's going to get better now that you live separately.  You had a good run;  be done. 

It sounds like Chad has always been her friend.  Maybe they crossed lines when you two were "broken up" or "on a break" or whatever other cockamamie label you applied to the off times of you on again off again dysfunctional relationship but based solely on what you have written there is not enough evidence to say one way or the other that she cheated on you & had sex with him, ever or when.   She is definitely somebody who gets over somebody by being under somebody else. 

There's more wrong in here than right so find a way to make this break up lasting.  You already did the expensive thing & moved.  There is no sense hanging on to something that hasn't been working.  

Edited May 27, 2021 by d0nnivain

[mark clemson]

It sounds to me like they essentially went on dates together. There is a place for friendship, even one on one discussions, but - did some of this happen while you and she were "exclusive" and she didn't ask permission/notify you in advance? If she didn't, many folks would consider that an EA.

So if that's not cheating to you, then perhaps not. I would consider it "something" and have a problem with it. But that's me. (And for the record my wife has a male friend she communicates with off and on by phone, so I'm not on reflexive hair-trigger alert here.)

It's quite plausible they did more, although certainly not guaranteed. Don't think you'll ever know for sure (unless she tells you they did) as you can't prove a negative.

I agree that overall this sounds dysfunctional, and like you may be trying to cling to the timbers of a sinking ship here, regardless of what she may/may not have done in the past.

Edited May 27, 2021 by mark clemson

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Alfano said:

 I moved out 3 months ago due to strife and conflict

You did the right thing moving out. However dragging this on/off thing out and sharing sexcapade stories is nonsense.

 Make a clean break. There is zero reason to chitchat. 

You're both free and single and can date whoever you want.

Delete and block her from all your social media and messaging apps.

 

[Alfano]

7 hours ago, mark clemson said:

did some of this happen while you and she were "exclusive" and she didn't ask permission/notify you in advance?

Yes they went to the Opera and perhaps a few other places while we were exclusive and living together and she told me about it. At least I only know about the times she told me about.

The last 3 months were more questionable because plans were made in between our reconciliations when we were no contact. Almost seems like she ran to him when we were broken up.

 

[mark clemson]

^^ yeah. Pretty dubious. Some would assume the best, some would assume the worst. Hard to know for sure. Personally I wouldn't be putting money on a claim nothing physical ever happened. It sounds plausible that she may have attempted to monkeybranch to him or was thinking about it. And still might be if you guys are on the rocks.

[ExpatInItaly]

It sounds like you two need to call off your relationship for good. 

You don't trust her, that much is clear. Whether or not it's warranted is rather beside the point. Without trust, you cannot have a healthy relationship. Your relationship appears to be on-off and overall fairly dysfunctional. Moving out is generally the sign that it's over and you need to go your separate ways. 

As for this specific guy? Yes, it sounds as though she sees him as a surrogate boyfriend, essentially. But again, all of the concern about him is a byproduct of a relationship that is gasping its dying breaths. 

[Alfano]

4 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You don't trust her, that much is clear. Whether or not it's warranted is rather beside the point. Without trust, you cannot have a healthy relationship. Your relationship appears to be on-off and overall fairly dysfunctional. Moving out is generally the sign that it's over and you need to go your separate ways.

Yes, I completely agree with you. When we first split and I moved out 3 months ago I broke it off. At which point she goes dark and does not try to contact me. But the part of me that missed her overcame my local side and I reached out and she took me right back. This has happened at least a half a dozen times. This time I've been no contact in about a week and do not plan on contacting her again.

[Alfano]

2 hours ago, S2B said:

She was dating someone else at the same time as she was pretending to be with you.

be done with her. She doesn’t know how to be committed to one guy.

Disagree. We were together 9 years. It only got bad within the last year, there were no issues as far as commitment these past few months, and again I cannot be sure what if anything happened with this other guy other than a few "dates" to do things I didn't like and their occasional walks around the workplace building.

[notbroken]

She has multiple boyfriends 'on the hook' - of which you are one.   The previous posters are right - move on.   Quickly and completely.   Go completely dark on her.  Next!

[elaine567]

23 hours ago, Alfano said:

She knows a guy will call him Chad. They met at her job around the time we first started dating 9 years ago. After I moved out and we broke up and reconciled a few times she told me she went to a few places with him that I was never interested in including Art galleriess, museums, opera...

23 hours ago, Alfano said:

on the phone with Chad planning a trip to the Botanical Gardens next week. He knows all the plants and flowers". The trip was planned during one of our breakups. Now I don't like those other places but we've been to the Gardens before and I enjoyed them.

Sounds like she has outgrown you. 
You were not taking her to the places she wants to go to and even when you do, you do not know enough about the subjects concerned to make it interesting for her.
Some people love to be with people who can teach them something.
I have no idea if they are sleeping together or not, both situations may be entirely plausible.

The fact you are on and off all the time, makes this relationship unfeasible.
I think you should just let her go.

[Alfano]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

So she was spending time going out places with him while she was with you...

what is your definition of commitment?

My definition of commitment does not exclude my significant other from having one or more male friends that she occasionally does things with that i prefer not to do.

 

[Alfano]

1 hour ago, notbroken said:

She has multiple boyfriends 'on the hook' - of which you are one.   Go completely dark on her.  Next!

Where are you getting this "multiple boyfriends on the hook" from?

I appreciate feedback and comments but please take time to read the thread, thanks.

 I do not plan on contacting her again, today is 1 week since we were last together and we have not spoken since.

 

[notbroken]

i got it from you wrote.   She has at least one other boyfriend - the guy at work she dates.  You were the other one.  

[Alfano]

6 minutes ago, notbroken said:

i got it from you wrote.   She has at least one other boyfriend - the guy at work she dates.  You were the other one.  

Ok, to me, multiple means more than two but I get it.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, Alfano said:

At which point she goes dark and does not try to contact me. But the part of me that missed her overcame my local side and I reached out and she took me right back. This has happened at least a half a dozen times

You realize this isn't normal, don't you?

Healthy relatonships with legs to go the distance don't wither into this sort of dysfunction. You two are used to each other but you clearly are not right for each other. 

[Alfano]

9 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You realize this isn't normal, don't you?

Healthy relatonships with legs to go the distance don't wither into this sort of dysfunction. You two are used to each other but you clearly are not right for each other. 

Yes it's been a difficult dysfunctional drawn out ending to an almost decade long relationship.

I get it.

 

[Alfano]

59 minutes ago, S2B said:

don’t contact her. Start dating available women.

I have no intention of contacting her again.

[kendahke]

On 5/28/2021 at 12:04 PM, Alfano said:

My definition of commitment does not exclude my significant other from having one or more male friends that she occasionally does things with that i prefer not to do.

 

That's the definition of incompatibility, not commitment. This is where this was always going to fail.

[Alfano]

There were a lot of broken parts that caused it to fail. I don't believe that not enjoying all the same activities, and her finding another guy to occasionally spend time with and do those activities were one of the reasons.

If there WAS infidelity, and jealousy and a host of negative emotions as a result then yes I could see it.

Our phone conversation post breakup two nights ago went a long ways towards convincing me nothing happened between them but there's always the possibility I'm wrong.

Doesn't really matter anymore, we are done, I got my questions answered and got as much closure as I'm going to get which is more than most do.

 

[Miss Peach]

You sound a lot like my ex BF. We broke up and I recently ran into another guy we had socialized with while I was with the BF. Nothing inappropriate had happened when I was coupled up (only hung around him in a group setting with my ex/then BF in tow) but when I was single and ran into this guy we hit it off immediately. He's running around asking everyone in our social circle if I cheated on him among other things. He's also trying to contact me after telling him a few times not to and going NC.

 

I highly recommend just focusing on yourself and cutting contact until you are sure you're over her. At that point if you do reach out for friendship or something it will work out much better IMO because you won't be so invested in the outcome. My ex BF won't leave me alone and all it's doing is pushing me away more by making him look like a crazy stalker. It's clear he's not remotely over anything yet so I keep pushing NC.