Did I hurt someone without meaning to or did I get away from someone who was cheating on their spouse (or something else)

[Fiori]

I am trying to determine if I hurt an honest person by breaking up with them or got away from someone who was just trying to turn me into a side toy, and I am really struggling with this because it is so hard to really know which it is. That is why I broke up with him in the first place, even though I liked him a lot. 

If it is the first, that is terrible, but if it is the second, that is terrible too. Please help. 

I am sorry in advance that this is so long. The situation is very complicated. I think explaining it in more detail will really help it to make better sense though, because there is something that I explain at the end that might bring everything together in one cohesive way. But, I do not know, and so that is why I am asking for help. 

Here is the scenario:

I met this guy online sometime back, and we began to develop a long-distance relationship. I really thought highly of him in so many ways, and liked him very much. I had not met anyone in many, many years who I had felt that way about, so I believed that it possibly had great potential. 

At the same time, I wanted to take things slow. I have been in toxic relationships in the past, and usually that was because I believed someone’s words but did not listen to their actions which were “saying” the opposite. So I wanted to make sure to listen not just to the words, but also to whatever “actions” I could from such a long distance. 

He told me that in the future, when covid was over, he would like for me to move to his country, live with him, and even help raise his children who are still rather young. He told me he wanted to marry me, and that he was in love with me. (I asked him how this could be when he had never even seen a current photo of me? [I was waiting until we had talked at least two or three months to give him one, to see if he meant what he said.] He said it did not matter, he knew enough about me to know that I was right for him.) He talked about all of the things he would like to do if I moved there, and what our relationship would be like. It sounded wonderful in so many ways, but I also did not know if he was using promises for the future to get an intimate relationship out of me now, albeit long-distance. 

I have heard stories of that happening to women. I even read one story where a woman was told that after his children were raised, the man she was having a long-distance relationship with would want her to move in with him. She stayed with him six years waiting for them to be grown, but then when they were all grown up he admitted that he had never really meant any of it. He just wanted the immediate intimacy that he could find in a long-distance relationship with her. 

So I wanted to be careful and give the situation time to see if he was sincere in what he meant. I liked him a lot, but just given so many bad things I have been through I wanted to be extra cautious that all of the beautiful things he said were not just bait to give him intimacy now. So like I said, I tried to listen to both the actions and the words.

But it was hard because one of the things that was throwing me off was that he would generally only talk to me while he was at work. He said that he worked from home doing tech for the government in the country where he lives, and so a lot of his work was just sitting around waiting for programs to run. He said that gave him free time to talk, which I accepted at first because I have personally had jobs in the past where management did not care what I did in my free time at work - and I had lots of free time. Studying, reading, socializing - they did not mind at all, and in some cases would join in. They just wanted you there to do the work when it arose. So, I felt it was up to him to determine if he was ok to be chatting with me in his free moments. This meant that there were times when I had to wait while he went to do his work before he returned to talk with me. 

That said, he did at some points along the way make comments about how he should really not be talking to me while he was at work, and that his boss would not like it. I started to question it a little more, and even thought of bringing it up to him to ask if we really should be doing this. It seemed a little bit wrong to me. But then, I figured it is up to him ultimately to determine what he feels he can legitimately do with his free moments at work, and so I did not say anything.

But still, it continued to bother me that this was basically the only time that he would talk to me on a set, regular basis for long, “getting-to-know-each-other” conversations. On occasion he might talk for an hour or so in his evening, and a few times we talked over the phone while he was driving to or from work, and on Friday evenings after he was done gaming with his friends he would chat a bit (less and less as time went on it seemed to me). But come Saturday he was almost never free to chat, nor was he almost ever free on Saturday night. Sunday he was also usually not free, although he might sometimes chat a little on Sunday evening. But Monday through Thursday he would almost never chat in his evenings or if he did it was minimal.

So our usual time to really chat was Monday-Friday early in the morning my time, and during his work morning his time. Then, we would converse for hours (except the times I had to wait while he worked). Or, late Friday evening when he was done gaming with his friends.

As time went on this pattern seemed very strange to me, as I had never had a relationship with someone who basically only talked to me while they were at work (save for the exceptions I mentioned). We had talked about possibly finding another time to talk, but the other time he wanted was when he was still at work - just later in his work day and more in “normal” morning hours for me. 

Given this, it seemed like there was too much of a chance that he was either married/committed to someone else, just making me an “option” for his free time at work (as opposed to the “priority” that he claimed he wanted me to be), or whatever.

So, I decided to let a few weeks go by and NOT get on the computer early in the morning, but make myself available only in the evenings his time. I wanted to see if he would then, of his own voilition and without being pushed by me, freely choose to talk to me in his free time, or if the relationship would fade away. 

We did chat a little via text messaging on Discord, but nothing like when he was at work. In fact, whole days went by where I barely heard more than a text or two, and some days I heard nothing at all. It honestly felt like we were fading out of each other’s lives. 

Finally, I knew that I had to do something, so I explained to him that I needed to end our long-distance relationship because I felt that something was not right. I did not want to outright say, “it looks like you are married and only chatting with me when the wife is not home, or you are just not really as interested as you claim that you are.” But I tried my best to hint at this. 

He said I was jumping to conclusions, and that since he works on the computer all day, at the end of the day he is tired and exhausted and just wants to relax, watch a movie, play video games, ride his bike, etc. He accused me of wanting his attention 24/7, which was not the case at all. I could see wanting some space from the computer, but playing video games or watching movies involves a screen as well, and it made me feel a little sad to think that screen time with a video game or a movie was more relaxing and enjoyable to him after work than screen time with me. Not that I needed ALL of his time, but that he could not, amidst doing those things, find some time in his free time for me. He only preferred to talk to me when he had free moments at work. 

I was not comfortable with accepting this, and so he told me to come to his country and move in with him and see. He said if I came there, we would have all the time together while he was working to be together, so when else would he expect me to spend time with him? 

That was definitely not going over well with me, as I could not see maintaining any kind of meaningful relationship in such a way, so I insisted that, as hard as it was for me to do, it was just time to end things. He said that he would not “bother” me anymore, so I assumed that likely meant he was going to go “no-contact” with me from that point on. I was not entirely 100% sure, but it seemed that way to me. That made me sad, but I felt maybe it was for the best to move past things than to drag them out by staying in touch. We “kissed” each other good-bye and I thought that might be it. 

Well, that night a friend in another country was making violent threats online, and since the guy I had been having a long-distance relationship with claimed to work for the government, I sent him a message on Discord asking for his help. I told him that I was not just using this as an excuse to talk to him again (which I was afraid he might think) but that I really did not know what to do given that this was a whole other country. 

The next day was Saturday, and I did not hear from him all during the daytime, so I felt that he really must have decided to not talk to me anymore. I was so upset though that he would not make an exception in such a serious situation that I deleted my Discord account. He was the only person I had Discord for to talk with, and keeping it around felt like a reminder of our relationship that I needed to let go. Plus, I figured if by some chance he did actually want to help, or contact me, he could do so on the place where we had met and normally talked. 

But two weeks went by and he did not contact me there either, so after two weeks I felt it was time to unfriend him. I did not want to, but it seemed so obvious that he did not want to talk to me anymore. Not only that, but it had not even seemed to matter to him that I was asking for help in such a serious situation. So, I removed him from the list.

He messaged me sometime after, very upset that I had removed him from my friend list. I tried to explain in a nutshell what I explained above, about how I felt that he had not wanted to talk to me, and he said that was not true. I was hoping that we could talk a little about this, but he ended the brief conversation (when we were finally messaging each other at the same time) saying that he had to go to sleep and that he would talk to me later. He never did, and this made me feel even more like he just did not want to talk to me anymore; that he preferred “no-contact.”

But it bothered me how he had been upset, and I began to question if maybe, in my intense caution to read “actions” and not just listen to words, I had made too many wrong assumptions and misunderstood an honest person. If that was the case, then I felt bad that maybe I had hurt him, when that was not what I intended to do. Honest or whatever, I did not want to hurt anyone, but if he was honest I could see where that would really be bad. If he was cheating or just trying to turn me into someone on the side, he would at least know I had reason to make the decisions that I did, and so hopefully that would make up for any unintended hurt that would be caused by ending things. 

I went back and forth for weeks, not sure what to do. Finally I decided to send him a letter apologizing on the condition that he might be an honest person who I misunderstood. I told him that IF he really is an honest person who I misunderstood, I am very sorry for doing just that, but that if he is someone who was cheating or just wanted me as an internet fling or whatever, surely he can understand why I did what I did. I did not mean it to be like one of those lame, “if I ever did anything wrong” apologizes, because I honestly could not determine in this situation if he was married or cheating or what. I just meant that only he can know what the truth is on his side, I cannot, and if he told the truth from the start (which it is just hard for me to know), then I am sorry.

Well, I did not hear back from him after sending that letter, which made me think that it is likely another sign that he is married, cheating, just looking for an internet fling - whatever. After all, what much more could he say in that situation, except to either tell the truth or attempt another lie?

But, it still keeps bothering me even after sending that letter. Maybe I am just too much of a softie, I do not know. I cannot stand the thought of maybe hurting someone, especially someone that I cared (care) about. But he did tell me one thing that is part of what keeps making me second guess everything - he said that he has high functioning autism. I do not know much about high functioning autism, but I do know that people with that can lead very normal lives. Have jobs, get married, have kids, etc. It is just harder for them to sometimes understand social cues. So maybe there is some small chance that he could not understand how his choices were coming across, and maybe he was making those choices not out of a lack of real desire to be with me, but more out of just a general inability to understand how badly it was coming across. Or, maybe I just made the bad choices. 

I really do not know. The person in me who has ended up in terrible situations because she would not listen to the “actions” is saying that I did the right thing. I set all the wonderful words and experiences aside to just listen to the actions, and make a determination based on those, which I felt I should have done in the past in so many other situations. But then if that is true, I keep wondering why do I keep getting this nagging feeling where I feel bad that I might have hurt someone?

I do not have a way to clear this up with him. He does not seem to want to talk to me at all, and even when I thought we were going to have the chance to talk, he left claiming that we would talk later, but he never returned. He never replied to my letter, and I do not want to be a nuisance and bug him for a reply. 

That is why I am asking this here. I wanted to ask what other people think in the hopes that maybe through this post I could better understand what has happened. Maybe I did something wrong and I cannot see it? Does it sound like maybe I made a mistake, or does it sound like, no matter what, it was probably for the best to let this relationship go? That he probably was married, with someone else, or just looking for a fling in his spare time at work, or whatever? Any constructive thoughts or opinions that could help me out to better understand this would be really appreciated.

Thank you so much!

Edited May 28, 2021 by Fiori

[glows]

This wasn't going anywhere. There are a lot of red flags and high risks all on his terms with you potentially moving to where he is and both of you have never met. Date locally. It's fine to be a softie but be more discerning too. 

[d0nnivain]

The minute a man you have never met IRL started talking about you moving to his country & the two of you getting married you should have realized he had a screw lose. People don't marry people they have never met.  The immigration issues you were facing were never addressed but tend to be insurmountable.   You were most likely correct about him not being available in the evenings because he was married or taken.  Even if he was single why would a guy who wants to marry you ignore you all the time in favor of video games & bike riding?  What kind of husband would he be 

Learn about cat-fishing.  Chalk this up as another toxic relationship.  Your picker is still broken.  Address that but stop bothering about him. Consider removing the other violent friend out of your life too.  

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

The minute a man you have never met IRL started talking about you moving to his country & the two of you getting married you should have realized he had a screw lose. People don't marry people they have never met.

Exactly. OP, normal adults don't offer to marry a stranger they have never laid eyes on. You should have cut contact right then and there.

Have you ever even seen him live via video-chat? (Apologies in advance if I missed that point in your post)

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, Fiori said:

I met this guy online sometime back, and we began to develop a long-distance relationship.

Sorry this happened. Did you ever meet in person? Unfortunately he sounds very deceptive.

Delete and block him from all your social media and messaging apps.

 Get on some quality apps with a good profile and pics and start talking to and meeting available local single men. 

Make your you have appropriate criteria for distance so that meeting for coffee is easy.

If someone won't meet in a timely fashion after a couple of messages, just move on.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Wiseman2

[Fiori]

Thank you so much to glows, d0nnivain, ExpatInItaly and Wiseman2 for taking the time to read what I wrote and respond with your thoughts. I appreciate it very much. 

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. Did you ever meet in person? Unfortunately he sounds very deceptive.

Delete and block him from all your social media and messaging apps.

 Get on some quality apps with a good profile and pics and start talking to and meeting available local single men. 

Make your you have appropriate criteria for distance so that meeting for coffee is easy.

If someone won't meet in a timely fashion after a couple of messages, just move on.

Wiseman2, thank you.

No, we never did meet in person. He lives so far away and with covid he felt that it would be best to wait until that was over to try to meet, which does make sense I think. But he did talk about coming here to visit when covid was over, to see how we got along I suppose. So I do not think he would have expected me to move right to his country without meeting him, but I do not know.

6 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Exactly. OP, normal adults don't offer to marry a stranger they have never laid eyes on. You should have cut contact right then and there.

Have you ever even seen him live via video-chat? (Apologies in advance if I missed that point in your post)

Thank you ExpatinItaly (what part of Italy by the way? I love Italy! Lucky you.)

I never did see him live via video-chat, but I think that was more because of me than him (he told me he preferred video chat if I remember correctly).

To be honest, I think he had more reason to be leery of me in that regard than I did of him. I was the one who was actually very reticent to do video chat or send any photos until a cautionary period of time had passed.

We did not meet on an actual dating site where everyone is clearly looking for someone to be with in real life, so I was waiting until at least two or three months had passed to be sure that he was legit, as I am just very cautious and have never been comfortable with putting pictures or videos of myself out there online. People can capture video chat footage I think, etc., so it tends to make me uncomfortable. I do not even use Facebook or make video calls in my regular life.

We did talk on the phone three times, and he sent me numerous pictures and photos of where he lives, his work, himself, his car, his area, etc. He even sent me a video that he said was from an event with him and his friends, and seemed very hesitant to do so, saying that he trusted me not to share it with others (although he did question me if he looked like the same person from the other photos he had sent). 

I did question him on the whole "marry someone you have never met" thing, and he compared it to a TV show where people are matched based on their likes and interests, etc., and then are married based on that. He said he would do that because everything that he had been looking for matched up in me.

I still was unsure, and was not going to marry him out the gate regardless, and I doubt he would have actually married me the second we met from how he was talking (about coming here first to visit, then having me go there to live). It just seemed like he was certain that was the direction it would go in and that it is something he would do at some point.

The thing that throws me the most is that he does have high functioning autism. He told me that people often misunderstand him because he tends to act more "laid back" about things, and this causes people to think he is not interested when he really is. He is very intelligent and smart, I could tell by his job and the way that he talked, so I think whatever traits are there are probably very minimal. That said, it makes me wonder if that is what is causing all of the confusion and if I just was another person who misunderstood him.

Thank you again to everyone who replied! 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Fiori

[ExpatInItaly]

16 hours ago, Fiori said:

Thank you ExpatinItaly (what part of Italy by the way? I love Italy! Lucky you.)

I never did see him live via video-chat, but I think that was more because of me than him (he told me he preferred video chat if I remember correctly).

I live in Rome. Beautiful, chaotic Roma!

I to say, there is no way I would take this man seriously. Never even saw each other live, and he's suggesting you marry him and help raise his kids? Dude is playing make-believe with you. Never having met means you have no clue how well you would get along in person, if you would even have chemistry, how you approach daily life, how you solve problems, how you solve coflict...the list goes on. His understanding of marriage is childish, honestly. Good marriages or long-term committment are not based just on likes/dislikes. 

If any guy suggested marriage without so much as meeting me, I would discount him immediately as a relationship candidate. Why? Because it would tell me he's more into the idea of marriage and a fantasy, and does not employ sound reasoning and judgment. It would tell me he's not particuarly mature and probably not that equipped to sustain healthy, long-term commitment. 

What is the reason you are attracted to this, exactly? I mean that sincerely. Are there no local guys around? Someone to have a real relationship with? Are you feeling a bit lonely? 

[BeanCounter]

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I live in Rome. Beautiful, chaotic Roma!

I to say, there is no way I would take this man seriously. Never even saw each other live, and he's suggesting you marry him and help raise his kids? Dude is playing make-believe with you. Never having met means you have no clue how well you would get along in person, if you would even have chemistry, how you approach daily life, how you solve problems, how you solve coflict...the list goes on. His understanding of marriage is childish, honestly. Good marriages or long-term committment are not based just on likes/dislikes. 

If any guy suggested marriage without so much as meeting me, I would discount him immediately as a relationship candidate. Why? Because it would tell me he's more into the idea of marriage and a fantasy, and does not employ sound reasoning and judgment. It would tell me he's not particuarly mature and probably not that equipped to sustain healthy, long-term commitment. 

What is the reason you are attracted to this, exactly? I mean that sincerely. Are there no local guys around? Someone to have a real relationship with? Are you feeling a bit lonely? 

100% this. I'm so sorry you got caught up with this, but hearing your story, this guy was using you. Whether he was using you purely for entertainment during his boring work days, or he was using you as a fantasy to escape his life, none of this sounds like it was in any way real to him. If I had to guess, you're not the only woman he is playing this game with.

You did the right thing by cutting him off. I'd remove it from your mind and know some of the things to look for in the future.

You shouldn't feel bad about hurting him, because I can almost guarantee you he is not genuinely hurt. You're more hurt by it than he is, because this all sounds way more make-believe to him than it did to you, based on his actions. The reason he is unresponsive to your small interactions since you cut ties, he doesn't care. I apologize if that is harsh, but I think the sooner you recognize that the sooner you move on with yourself and your happiness.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

You made the right choice. Always listen to your gut. Build confidence in yourself that you will pay attention to things that don't add up and that you will make the right judgement call. No need to second guess yourself.

[Fiori]

Thank you again ExpatInItaly, as well as BeanCounter and HadMeOverABarrel for your replies!

You have all helped to free my second-guessing side from worrying that I might have hurt someone. (My other side was all, "you did the right thing!") Sometimes I just need to hear it from others.

7 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I live in Rome. Beautiful, chaotic Roma!

I to say, there is no way I would take this man seriously. Never even saw each other live, and he's suggesting you marry him and help raise his kids? Dude is playing make-believe with you. Never having met means you have no clue how well you would get along in person, if you would even have chemistry, how you approach daily life, how you solve problems, how you solve coflict...the list goes on. His understanding of marriage is childish, honestly. Good marriages or long-term committment are not based just on likes/dislikes. 

If any guy suggested marriage without so much as meeting me, I would discount him immediately as a relationship candidate. Why? Because it would tell me he's more into the idea of marriage and a fantasy, and does not employ sound reasoning and judgment. It would tell me he's not particuarly mature and probably not that equipped to sustain healthy, long-term commitment. 

What is the reason you are attracted to this, exactly? I mean that sincerely. Are there no local guys around? Someone to have a real relationship with? Are you feeling a bit lonely? 

ExpatInItay, now I know you are extra lucky! Rome is beautiful! What a wonderful place to get to live. I wish I could hear all about it. Do you have a blog?

Yes, I was questioning if it was not who he was too, just because I know that guys can sometimes use the prospect of a future life together to bait someone into getting what they want in the moment. This was one of the reasons I was holding off from allowing myself to really get too emotionally involved with him, to let time show how real it was or not. 

You asked why I was attracted to him. It was because I thought that he was possibly a really good person. I have had numerous marriage proposals over the years, but those men did not have that inherent goodness that I find attractive, and which is hard to find. So, I gave up looking. I am one of those "I would rather be by myself than just take someone to have someone" types. I was not looking for perfection, or some fairy-tale hero, or some figure on a pedestal. He had shared with me some of his faults and I knew very much that he was imperfect, and that made him all the more endearing to me as a human who could possibly grow and mature with you as a team.

I just was looking for something that used to be much more the norm and that has become very scarce anymore. I was raised around that and experienced it, so I know it is real, but hard to find. When he came around, he seemed to have those qualities, and he impressed me very much as a result. But it was not who he really is (or if it was, it is something that he has lost and it is now just used as bait), and knowing that helps me. 

Thank you again!

3 hours ago, BeanCounter said:

100% this. I'm so sorry you got caught up with this, but hearing your story, this guy was using you. Whether he was using you purely for entertainment during his boring work days, or he was using you as a fantasy to escape his life, none of this sounds like it was in any way real to him. If I had to guess, you're not the only woman he is playing this game with.

You did the right thing by cutting him off. I'd remove it from your mind and know some of the things to look for in the future.

You shouldn't feel bad about hurting him, because I can almost guarantee you he is not genuinely hurt. You're more hurt by it than he is, because this all sounds way more make-believe to him than it did to you, based on his actions. The reason he is unresponsive to your small interactions since you cut ties, he doesn't care. I apologize if that is harsh, but I think the sooner you recognize that the sooner you move on with yourself and your happiness.

Thank you BeanCounter! Your reply is not harsh, it is actually helpful to me.

I pretty much felt that the situation was what you said, given his actions, and was feeling relieved that I had held back and stayed cautious to see what time would reveal. But when he came around and seemed upset, I started to second guess myself a lot, and feel bad that I might have done wrong. I just did not want to hurt anyone.

Your reply definitely helps to free me from feeling bad that I might have hurt someone. Understanding that it does not bother him (like I basically assumed, but my second-guessing side was not getting) sets me (or my second-guessing side) free to realize that I do not have to feel bad for the decisions that I made, and go back to being relieved that I made them. 

3 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

You made the right choice. Always listen to your gut. Build confidence in yourself that you will pay attention to things that don't add up and that you will make the right judgement call. No need to second guess yourself.

Thank you so much HadMeOverABarrel, I will remember this.

Thank you to everyone again for your help in this (and for taking the time to read so much)! It has meant a lot to me.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Fiori