How to navigate a 25 year age gap

[NonJudgmental2021]

7 hours ago, Punterxx said:

48 and you don't know what to do? Seriously? That's very worrying.

You'll be surprised. It goes in cycles. We all start with not knowing much, if anything at all. Then we fumble along till we think we know it all. And then we coast till we realise we don't really know it all. And then, we reach a low where our world breaks apart and we realise that we know nothing at all about the people that were supposed to the rocks that we cling to.

The answer of course, is  to recognise that the only thing we control and possibly predict to an extent is our own mind. People will surprise you everyday and when people close to you spring that surprise, it leads to quite an awakening.

So yes, I don't know what to do. Age has little to do with it.

[NonJudgmental2021]

On 5/30/2021 at 8:12 AM, basil67 said:

If you want a family, you will need someone who's of an age where they are thinking about starting a family.   Someone who's 32, not 22 would be much closer to the mark.

Well, when I met her, she appeared to be a totally sorted out person in her early 30s.
Imagine my shock when it turns out that she is early 20s instead! Still totally sorted and much 'ahead' of other girls her age.  

[NonJudgmental2021]

5 hours ago, jspice said:

You’ve described her as “well-behaved” twice. 
That’s creepy and gross because that’s how a father would talk. 

I don’t want to sleep with a man who calls me well-behaved. 

she might be looking at you out of the corner of her eye because she thinks you’re creepy too. 
If you think you’re not giving off some kind of vibe to her, you’re crazy. 

I appreciate you taking the time to tell me this, and I and genuinely grateful for your expression, which will surely help me deal with my solo echo chamber more constructively.
Recognising that someone is decent, mature, respectful, and, acts with grace is what I meant when I wrote "well-behaved"

Do note that I am evaluating the possibility of a relationship  ( and not of sleeping with someone).
If I think it can work, I will try to date her and try and build the kernel of a meaningful relationship for both of us. I will likely fail if I take on this venture.

You're getting far ahead of the plot when you start referencing "sleeping with someone". Yes, I am old school, and yes, my mother taught me that sex must wait until after the relationship is sanctified and I live by that. It's quite simple - first figure out the relationship if there are signs of one, then, later, figure out the sex.

Now, in which planet orbiting the magnificent sun, does this approach becomes crazy and creepy?

You're wrong to assume that I am planning in hurrying her to  "sleep with a man" 

[elaine567]

14 minutes ago, NonJudgmental2021 said:

! Still totally sorted and much 'ahead' of other girls her age.  

I am afraid they all say that, until she breaks his heart by acting her age and going off to find another,,.
I used to feel sorry for young women who are in age gap relationships, the poor girl being dominated by a much older man, but whilst that can occur, the more common scenario is the man becomes totally besotted with this young woman.
He has found his bride, the mother of his children, he has plans for long into he future.
She,  being young, may want to play house, she goes along with the plans... until one day she decides she no longer wants to play house, she definitely doesn't want children not now anyway... she wants to party, she wants to see the world, she wants to further her career, she wants to sample a whole lot of younger men her own age who are now  establishing themselves and are far more attractive to her.
She looks at her older man and sees nothing in common any more, she leaves.
He is heart broken, he has invested years, all for nothing.
Whilst he was making plans, she just grew up and had plans of her own and she flew the nest.

So now my pity is reserved for the guys who thought they had the world, to find it crumble away in their hands.

[NonJudgmental2021]

17 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I am afraid they all say that, until she breaks his heart by acting her age and going off to find another,,.
I used to feel sorry for young women who are in age gap relationships, the poor girl being dominated by a much older man, but whilst that can occur, the more common scenario is the man becomes totally besotted with this young woman.
He has found his bride, the mother of his children, he has plans for long into he future.
She,  being young, may want to play house, she goes along with the plans... until one day she decides she no longer wants to play house, she definitely doesn't want children not now anyway... she wants to party, she wants to see the world, she wants to further her career, she wants to sample a whole lot of younger men her own age who are now  establishing themselves and are far more attractive to her.
She looks at her older man and sees nothing in common any more, she leaves.
He is heart broken, he has invested years, all for nothing.
Whilst he was making plans, she just grew up and had plans of her own and she flew the nest.

So now my pity is reserved for the guys who thought they had the world, to find it crumble away in their hands.

Eloquent. You should write a novel.

And yes, I can read the tea leaves. It doesn't end well for folks like me.

Well, it didn't end well for Bezos, nor for Gates. 

I have no plans of controlling or dominating her. Unlike most people even today, I was raised in a double income household, and so, my "normal" is that the woman is independent and has a career of her choice - in addition to enjoying family life. That is the version of family life that I have experience of, and am the product of.

If she wants to "explore" in the future, I can "play French" and let her have  share of fun/adventure/passions etc. The average American has  7  sexual relationships in a life time, some of those 7 are after marriage/ finding a long term partner. So, she won't be doing anything that is out of the ordinary, and age-gap is just one variable having a bearing on such commingling.

 Also, I am totally okay if she leaves me after 8-10-12 years of family life, if she wants to. I will then focus on my kids. At the moment, I have neither a partner, nor kids. So, if after, say, 10 years of enjoying family life, all I am left with is shared parenting for say 2 kids - I will think of that as a win.

Edited May 31, 2021 by NonJudgmental2021

[BaileyB]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:41 PM, NonJudgmental2021 said:

She seems perfect, and our age gap is the only thing holding me back.

If you have decided the age gap is not a problem, as seems to be apparent in your recent posts, why don’t you ask the woman out? 

[basil67]

10 minutes ago, NonJudgmental2021 said:

 Also, I am totally okay if she leaves me after 8-10-12 years of family life, if she wants to. I will then focus on my kids. At the moment, I have neither a partner, nor kids. So, if after, say, 10 years of enjoying family life, all I am left with is shared parenting for say 2 kids - I will think of that as a win.

Would the kids see a broken family as a win? 

[NonJudgmental2021]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

Would the kids see a broken family as a win? 

They ought not to, and, I will not be the one to break the family.
I can accept a very accommodating modern marriage if it is required to keep the family together and my eventual partner happy/ energised/ growing

[lana-banana]

16 minutes ago, NonJudgmental2021 said:

Also, I am totally okay if she leaves me after 8-10-12 years of family life, if she wants to. I will then focus on my kids. At the moment, I have neither a partner, nor kids. So, if after, say, 10 years of enjoying family life, all I am left with is shared parenting for say 2 kids - I will think of that as a win.

This strikes me as a deeply weird thing to say about anyone, much less a stranger. "It's fine if my partner leaves me!" doesn't suggest a ton of self-esteem.

You mentioned a relationship with someone who was more interested in your money than you. What about the rest of your relationship history? Have you had plenty of long-term partners your own age?

Edited May 31, 2021 by lana-banana

[elaine567]

19 minutes ago, NonJudgmental2021 said:

Also, I am totally okay if she leaves me after 8-10-12 years of family life, if she wants to

She is 22, I predict she will leave at about 25 before she has any kids...

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, NonJudgmental2021 said:

They ought not to, and, I will not be the one to break the family.
I can accept a very accommodating modern marriage if it is required to keep the family together and my eventual partner happy/ energised/ growing

If you choose to marry a woman who's at a vastly different life stage - where you know they might grow out of you and end in a broken family - makes you equally culpable in the children being from a broken home.    So yes, they ought to blame you for your part.

A sensible fathering decision would be to marry someone who, to the best of your predictions, is likely to want to spend their whole life with you.  Someone who will want to be with you for the long haul. 

[jspice]

43 minutes ago, NonJudgmental2021 said:

I appreciate you taking the time to tell me this, and I and genuinely grateful for your expression, which will surely help me deal with my solo echo chamber more constructively.
Recognising that someone is decent, mature, respectful, and, acts with grace is what I meant when I wrote "well-behaved"

Do note that I am evaluating the possibility of a relationship  ( and not of sleeping with someone).
If I think it can work, I will try to date her and try and build the kernel of a meaningful relationship for both of us. I will likely fail if I take on this venture.

You're getting far ahead of the plot when you start referencing "sleeping with someone". Yes, I am old school, and yes, my mother taught me that sex must wait until after the relationship is sanctified and I live by that. It's quite simple - first figure out the relationship if there are signs of one, then, later, figure out the sex.

Now, in which planet orbiting the magnificent sun, does this approach becomes crazy and creepy?

You're wrong to assume that I am planning in hurrying her to  "sleep with a man" 

I didn’t say you were in a hurry to sleep with her. A healthy relationship eventually  involves sex but let me rephrase. I don’t want to be in a relationship with my father. 
 

[NonJudgmental2021]

2 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

This strikes me as a deeply weird thing to say about anyone, much less a stranger.

You mentioned a relationship with someone who was more interested in your money than you. What about the rest of your relationship history? Have you had plenty of long-term partners your own age?

I am old enough. I have met a few women along the way and with a few, it would have worked well but there were other limiting factors.

One woman, French, and housemate, strung me along for a year before revealing she had a long term boyfriend in a different city. And cried all the way when I went with her to drop her off at the airport for the last time. About 20 years younger than me and fully aware of the age gap. I did not go in the direction of "sleeping with her" - didn't move an inch in that direction other than an occasional hug. I was taking it very slow and then the long distance boyfriend emerged. She cried and cried.

Another, European, and classmate, strung me along for a few years, letting me know how much she loved me and liked me, but that she had a troubled relationship with a boyfriend from high school times, and that she would quit that toxic relationship - every 3 months or so. About 10 years younger  than me and fully aware of the age gap. I did not go in the direction of "sleeping with her" - didn't move an inch in that direction. Nothing came out it eventually. She married the toxic high school sweetheart (same age as her) and then had a baby whom she christened with the nickname she had given me. So, she has her boyfriend-husband, and she has a baby that has the name name as what she used to call me.

Another, Asian, neighbour, strung me along for a year, and then, accepted an invitation to drink a glass of wine, from a total stranger who approached her randomly on MacDougal street. She ended up having the time of her life with Mr Stranger on the road, for the next year and a half and then broke up. She told me after six months of two-timing, cried as she broke the news and apologised and then, would come and meet me every 3 months to see how I was doing.  Once she asked me if she had done the right thing. In response,  I pointed  to a nicely dressed woman on the street (We were near Union Square) and said to her that that woman was attractive on first glance, but, I would never approach a woman on the street with a proposal of any kind- that is simply not my upbringing.  Finally, when she broke up with her lover, Mr Stranger,  she again came to see me yet again and brought me cup cakes, still feeling sorry. I had healed and moved on by then. I never went in the direction of "sleeping with her" - all we did was hug and kiss a bit. I was taking it slow and then Mr Stranger arrived from nowhere. 15 years younger than me, which she was well aware of. The Stranger she fell for whilst she was seeing me, was 17 years elder to her.

The 2 years with the gold-digger - that is my ex wife. She did a lot of things that are outside the norm, was caught 'red handed' by accident by my mother, and then, as we tried to chart a path for the marriage, she was candid enough to tell me that she had married me only for the money, which she would take away from me. My mother actually wanted us to reconcile despite everything, and at my mother's insistence, I spent a weekend at my then in-laws seeking their counsel on how to sort things out. About 5 years younger than me.

 

Latest - spent about 1.5 years with ( hindsight kicks in) a self-centred and career focused girl, pretty, ex model (Won a few pageants), 19 years younger and well-aware of the age gap. To be fair, most career focused girls are not like her. She was willing to do anything to get ahead at work - offering a 'girl friend experience' to the office head, and, at the same time, luring a 20 year old male college intern into sex and then controlling him into doing her spreadsheets for her (which she needed to do at work, but didn't know how to). Even introduced me to this gentle lover and asked me to give him career advice. I also spent 2 days in the hospital caring for her when she fell sick - her young lover came to see her and brought her chocolates. The lady doctor told her in my presence that the cause of the illness was that she was having unprotected sex often and that she needed to be a lot more hygienic if she wanted to continue enjoy unprotected sex. The lady doctor's advice was simple - that she should simply pee after each sexual episode of the unprotected kind.  I finally cut her loose when she was found stalking this college intern by security (the boy wanted out and had called in security on her). She's been sending me messages and sending requests for a reconciliation through common friends. The script is that she has changed completely, become spiritual and has sorted out her life. She wants me back, because, I am the only man she trusts.  Again, I went slow, stuck to hugs and a bit of kissing, didn't move in the direction of sex.

[NonJudgmental2021]

28 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

She is 22, I predict she will leave at about 25 before she has any kids...

okay, then it's a 3 year risk. That's another way to look at it. Thank you.

[NonJudgmental2021]

29 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If you choose to marry a woman who's at a vastly different life stage - where you know they might grow out of you and end in a broken family - makes you equally culpable in the children being from a broken home.    So yes, they ought to blame you for your part.

A sensible fathering decision would be to marry someone who, to the best of your predictions, is likely to want to spend their whole life with you.  Someone who will want to be with you for the long haul. 

Well, I am trying my best to have a decent relationship with ' a woman' (See relationship history note above) . That's all, really, that I can say.
Didn't Genghis Khan father like a 1000 kids? Yet, the world turned out okay.
 

[NonJudgmental2021]

23 minutes ago, jspice said:

I didn’t say you were in a hurry to sleep with her. A healthy relationship eventually  involves sex but let me rephrase. I don’t want to be in a relationship with my father. 
 

Yes, I get it, it's not for you. And that's valid and valuable advice, which I will certainly consider as I figure out what to do. You might have noticed - I am not the kind that rush into action on things that matter. All of this discussion, and especially the criticism from dear strangers such as yourself, is very helpful indeed. Thank you for continuing to shine the light.

[basil67]

25 minutes ago, NonJudgmental2021 said:

Well, I am trying my best to have a decent relationship with ' a woman' (See relationship history note above) . That's all, really, that I can say.
Didn't Genghis Khan father like a 1000 kids? Yet, the world turned out okay.
 

You're also talking about wanting to start a family.  A thoughtful parent (no matter which gender) will do their best to bring a child into a stable and loving family.  Not a family which they envision imploding in a few years. 

[NonJudgmental2021]

28 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You're also talking about wanting to start a family.  A thoughtful parent (no matter which gender) will do their best to bring a child into a stable and loving family.  Not a family which they envision imploding in a few years. 

Ok, so let me put it this way - I want a sensible partner and a family. And if my partner goes away for reasons out of my control, I will focus on the kids with every remaining breath. I will accept being cuckolded if that keeps the family together.

That being said, all of you who are making doomsday predictions - that she will leave in 3 years, that she will seek more attractive and viable partners in their prime while I am riding off into the sunset -- all of you are being quite harsh in your assessment of this woman.  She's mature and I will explain to her what a 25 year age gap means, should I decide to ask her out. I will point out these concerns that have been raised here about what she might to do in 3,5,7,10,12 years.

I will even ask her to read this page. Then she can make up her mind.

And if she still chooses me, then we are golden, right?

Edited May 31, 2021 by NonJudgmental2021

[lana-banana]

18 minutes ago, NonJudgmental2021 said:

She's mature and I will explain to her what a 25 year age gap means, should I decide to ask her out. I will point out these concerns that have been raised here about what she might to do in 3,5,7,10,12 years.

I will even ask her to read this page. Then she can make up her mind.

You would explain an age gap to her (because she's not capable of understanding?), then you'd ask her to read your extremely detailed and downright creepy assessments of your interactions...and online strangers' response to said assessments?

If you are serious about interacting with women in this way I do not recommend asking her out.

[NonJudgmental2021]

2 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

You would explain an age gap to her (because she's not capable of understanding?), then you'd ask her to read your extremely detailed and downright creepy assessments of your interactions...and online strangers' response to said assessments?

If you are serious about interacting with women in this way I do not recommend asking her out.

As per a few writers here (including you), she is already getting some vibes from me based on my "projections".

So, despite all that, if I still manage to reason this out in my head and decide to ask her out and she accepts and then we talk and then we realise that we would like to test the waters - at that point, she will certainly get to read this post and this page. I will explain to her what the age-gap means based on the several concerns raised here. If she is okay with that,  I will then  ask her to read this page, in its entirety, including what you are labelling as "my creepy assessments"

It's called radical transparency.

If she can still find the heart and the courage to persist with me, I think we're pretty much golden then. 

 

[basil67]

@NonJudgmental2021 of these previous "relationships" you mention, it appears you hadn't had sex with any/most of them.   Your ex-wife obviously being an exception.  This makes me suspect that they didn't know that you saw your connection with them as a romantic relationship.   Especially when you mention that they were seeing others which you weren't aware of.  Sounds to me like you were more of a snuggle bunny/friend than as a potential boyfriend. 

Ex wife aside, did any of these women who "led you on" ever talk about marriage with you?  

[Acacia98]

First of all, please stop apologising for what you posted. 

Next, here are my thoughts: I have no idea whether you just have a vivid imagination or are actually highly intuitive and good at reading people. So I really don't know whether she's interested. Based on that, if I were you, I'd ask her out for a coffee and, if she accepted, I'd use that as an opportunity to get to know her better. 

I don't have a problem with large-age-gap relationships as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult. In fact, I've been in a couple myself. So when I say what I say, it's coming from personal experience: you may be at entirely different points in your respective lives. She may not be looking to have children yet (or at all). Or maybe she's just looking for some fun and you'll end up getting hurt if you're comparatively too invested. She may also appear mature in some ways but still be very much her age in other ways. So just do that coffee (or lunch, as someone suggested), get to know her, and let things flow organically.

------

Edited to add:

In the interest of maintaining your privacy, you may wish to request to modify your first post. There's quite a bit of info there that could reveal who you are to folks who are familiar with you or the young woman.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Acacia98

[dangerous]

Too much over-analysis by the writer here. Ask her out, do not explain the age difference up front.

If she agrees, then enjoy the date and get to know eachother. If she declines, then you have your answer.

 

[NonJudgmental2021]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

@NonJudgmental2021 of these previous "relationships" you mention, it appears you hadn't had sex with any/most of them.   Your ex-wife obviously being an exception.  This makes me suspect that they didn't know that you saw your connection with them as a romantic relationship.   Especially when you mention that they were seeing others which you weren't aware of.  Sounds to me like you were more of a snuggle bunny/friend than as a potential boyfriend. 

Ex wife aside, did any of these women who "led you on" ever talk about marriage with you?  

Yes, several did. There are also numerous other instances wherein women who have gotten to know me in some context, have invited me to lunch or a cooked meal or a day out. Some have then questioned me very about life goals etc - like detailed, very specific questions. Two others have pointed me out to their respective mothers in a social setting without my knowledge and have informed me later that I have their respective mother's approval to proceed.

In other instances, I turned down two women in their early twenties telling them I was too old for them ( in both cases, I had hung out a few times with the person and I didn't want to proceed) - and both didn't take that 'no' as an answer. They both wanted to know my exact age and then determine if the age gap was insurmountable for them. I pointed to the white hair springing from my head and they were both totally okay with that. One of them spent a year trying to guess my age and I finally showed her my ID to prove that I was indeed 'too old' for her. But she was still totally okay with the age-gap.

 The ex-model's mother dotes on me, by the way. Without knowing, in a community group of volunteers and without being introduced, I have ended up being 'seen' by the mother of yet another young woman, whose mother then approved me of and I received a marriage proposal from this woman of 21 years age. I told her she was too young, she said that she was old enough and had maternal approval. Eventually she got the message and married a friend of hers, has had a baby - we are still in touch and are good friends and I am supposed to see the baby sometime when circumstances allow for that.

I could go on and give a few more examples, but I have made the point.

[NonJudgmental2021]

3 hours ago, dangerous said:

Too much over-analysis by the writer here. Ask her out, do not explain the age difference up front.

If she agrees, then enjoy the date and get to know eachother. If she declines, then you have your answer.

 

Yes, that's the script. The call for help, through this post, was to look at the situation from as many different angles as possible, before doing anything. It's easy to fool yourself into believing that you're seeing signs of something, when you aren't.