She doesn't care how she looks

[luiscasabuena]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:48 PM, Fletch Lives said:

Show up on the date looking like a slob. When she complains, that's your chance to explain it to her.

You're soooo wise. Hahahahahah

[luiscasabuena]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:12 PM, basil67 said:

Indeed.  Like accepting how others choose to dress...

Maybe. 😏

[Lotsgoingon]

There is a difference here between "not caring how we look" vs having a style that you don't like.

Dressing is not necessarily superficial. It really isn't. Talk to victims of sexual abuse and they will tell you that they can often dress in a way that does not attract attention. People dress plainly sometimes because they don't dare present themselves as attractive. 

I've known women who gained 5 pounds and would dress to hide--ironically making themselves less attractive because they avoided bright colors and so on and hid all skin.

I dated a beautiful woman who just drained all sexuality and all beauty out of the way she dressed. Turned out, she had some serious emotional issues about trying to attract men. The idea of dressing attractively (and I just mean reasonably attractive--not showing skin or anything but even nice colors that worked with her complexion) triggered some kind of trauma and anger in her that made her feel she was being controlled by men. 

Best to assume that how she dresses is related to a big part of who she is. You don't like how she dresses, move on. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

There is a difference here between "not caring how we look" vs having a style that you don't like.

Agree.

One look at some of the Grammys, reality show, etc. outfits and you'll realize that an unscripted "baggy" look is the trend. But then again  so was having your underwater hanging out of your pants, green hair and crocs, so go figure🤷‍♂️

[Weezy1973]

On 6/11/2021 at 5:12 AM, basil67 said:

Indeed.  Like accepting how others choose to dress...

Exactly. Her job isn’t to please you. That’s nobodies role as a partner. If you love her, that means all you want is for her to be happy. If she’s happy wearing what she wears than that should make you happy too. Since it doesn’t, I suspect you don’t actually love her and are more with her because of what she can do for you.

[chillii]

Find some of the answers here a bit hard to believe.

There's theads here with women complaining about how he dresses , and the replies aren't exactly along the same forgiving lines as they are here for the way she dresses.

Probably won't even matter a damn anyway think ops got a few threads going about different women.

[SumGuy]

3 hours ago, chillii said:

Find some of the answers here a bit hard to believe.

There's theads here with women complaining about how he dresses , and the replies aren't exactly along the same forgiving lines as they are here for the way she dresses....

Well the questions are not along the same lines, nor the OP responses thereto same.  One question seems to imply how can i fix this person so they do it for me, another is why would a person dress that way and I don't care for it?

It is one thing if how someone dresses is not for you, fine, vent all you want just don't take your personal preference too some objective reality.   Certainly (for me) don't put out as objective truth this person who dresses counter your expectations just needs your guidance to "dress right."  My answer to any question like that, how do I tell them, is simply don't.  Move on if clothes are that important. 

If the question is why they dress that way?  Well plenty of room for speculation and perhaps seeing their dress in a different way.

It also just boggles my mind when a poster rattles off a list of attributes that make this "poorly dressed" person down right amazing, incredible in fact, yet the clothes are what stops them from feeling it.  Seriously?   

I am not so sure the response vary from poster to poster.  Most posters have a pretty consistent view on these things.  I take a pretty consistent with my views, regardless of gender. Perhaps some have one view for men and another women.  My response, and its tone, of course change based on the nuances, details and also implications of the question posed.

For example, it is a not trivial point to me (or many women I imagine and have been told) that women have a history of being held back and held down, by force of law and massive social pressure.  Let alone things that are illegal now that women just had to accept...watch a season of Mad Men for a simple dramatization.   Arguments and presentations of women's gender role (what is and is not "feminine," what makes her a catch or worthy) that could come straight out of Mad Men are going to be treated like the views of women we are trying to get away from not excuse or embrace. 

If clothing is part of your attraction equation fine, just own it as your own personal thing, don't put it on him or her as being less than if they don't dress the way you like.  I mean that is just me.

[Els]

So.... what exactly would you say to a woman who was dating a man whom she secretly thought was unattractive, but decided to stick around just because he paid for dinners and made good money...?

Edited June 14, 2021 by Elswyth

[dramafreezone]

21 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Exactly. Her job isn’t to please you. That’s nobodies role as a partner. If you love her, that means all you want is for her to be happy. If she’s happy wearing what she wears than that should make you happy too. Since it doesn’t, I suspect you don’t actually love her and are more with her because of what she can do for you.

Eh, I disagree with this.  Part of being in a relationship necessitates that the two please each other.  That's what you do when you love someone right?  You care about their happiness and you do things that you know will please the other.  But the thing is that pleasing someone else shouldn't be a chore, and it's balanced.  You don't please to gain approval.

If it's just two people living together just existing as they are with no acts of service, instead we're both just taking, that doesn't even sound like a relationship to me.  Might as well be single IMO.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dramafreezone

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

It also just boggles my mind when a poster rattles off a list of attributes that make this "poorly dressed" person down right amazing, incredible in fact, yet the clothes are what stops them from feeling it.  Seriously?   

I am not so sure the response vary from poster to poster.  Most posters have a pretty consistent view on these things.  I take a pretty consistent with my views, regardless of gender. Perhaps some have one view for men and another women.  My response, and its tone, of course change based on the nuances, details and also implications of the question posed.

For example, it is a not trivial point to me (or many women I imagine and have been told) that women have a history of being held back and held down, by force of law and massive social pressure.  Let alone things that are illegal now that women just had to accept...watch a season of Mad Men for a simple dramatization.   Arguments and presentations of women's gender role (what is and is not "feminine," what makes her a catch or worthy) that could come straight out of Mad Men are going to be treated like the views of women we are trying to get away from not excuse or embrace. 

If clothing is part of your attraction equation fine, just own it as your own personal thing, don't put it on him or her as being less than if they don't dress the way you like.  I mean that is just me.

Well, those attributes are what you are attracted to.  If someone is intelligent, and a physician, and just generally very brilliant from an intellectual standpoint, then that's great for them.  That doesn't necessarily make them attractive.  To you it may, and if that's your thing then great. 

I think I'm reasonably intelligent, but that doesn't mean that I value that above all else when it comes to women.  For me, physical attraction is still #1, so clothing is huge to me, and to a lot of guys.  It's why tight dresses and high heels are a thing.  Women aren't forced to buy those things if they don't want to, but many do because that's what guys like.  The guys are on the demand side, and those women are responding to the demand. 

And it's not just one sided.  Guys go to the gym, get great jobs, buy fancy cars and homes, for who?  Women!  They're on the demand side for men, so they get to determine what's important too.  If that stuff didn't matter to women I'd still be in my 400 square foot apartment that costs $800 a month and I think many guys think the same way.  We don't need much.  But it's established (no matter what some women will say) what is generally attractive to women.  Not all women, but generally speaking.

I am sympathetic to the plight of women with regards to civil rights but I don't think that means that men have to stop liking what men have liked for hundreds of years.  It's just not practical.  We can't change what we like just because there are women in most career fields that are doing just as well (and in many cases better) than men.  Career doesn't have anything to do with romance, so doesn't really enter the equation for me.

If one doesn't want to dress in a certain way, they are not less than or more than, they are just not compatitble with a person that likes a woman that wears dresses and heels.  The only issue I have with OP is why did he start up with her if he knew she dressed a certain way?  Anyway, a physician won't have any trouble finding a guy that will accept her exactly as is, which is why I don't see this as some injustice or poor treatment that's being directed at her.  He's just seeing if she's flexible at all on this issue.  If she's not, then move on.  Women try to redress guys they're dating all the time, there seems to be a bit of a double standard.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dramafreezone

[FMW]

He's  brought the issue up with her before, it didn't  go well.  I assume there are probably other ways she tries to please him, but this particular issue is one she's apparently not interested in changing to suit him.  I don't find that unreasonable on her part at all.  

Most of us have things about our partner we might like to tweak (I don't like my guys choice of shoes, I'm  sure he doesn't  always like what I wear either).  But for many of us those aspects are minor considerations for us and in no way threaten the attraction.

We all prioritize things in valuing romantic partners, whether consciously or not.  The OP values her clothing choice above all the other things he actually likes about her.  He can't help that.  He needs to find someone that matches his style.  She will be happier with someone who has a different ranking system.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

 Part of being in a relationship necessitates that the two please each other.  That's what you do when you love someone right?  You care about their happiness and you do things that you know will please the other. 

You’re not responsible for your partners happiness. Of course you each do things to please each other, but that’s relegated generally to things that you want to do for them. I wouldn’t ask my wife to do something she doesn’t enjoy for my pleasure. In that case I’m asking her to sacrifice her happiness for mine. And that’s not love. That’s in many ways the opposite of love. 

[dramafreezone]

13 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’re not responsible for your partners happiness. Of course you each do things to please each other, but that’s relegated generally to things that you want to do for them. I wouldn’t ask my wife to do something she doesn’t enjoy for my pleasure. In that case I’m asking her to sacrifice her happiness for mine. And that’s not love. That’s in many ways the opposite of love. 

Well, that's why I told him he should ask if she'd be willing to dress up a bit.  Ideally if this is so important to him he shouldn't even begin something unless he has a good sense of this woman's fashion, but that's beside the point now.  She had a negative response to his request, so that's that, he clearly knows how she feels.  But until he asked he couldn't know, only that she obviously has preferences.

Of course no one is responsible for another person's happiness.  That said, I'm sure that at times you put the needs of the marriage ahead of your own needs through actions that don't necessarily serve any type of immediate gratification for yourself.  There are limits to everything and that's why you communicate and determine where those boundaries are.  Part of the OP's issue is communication.

[chillii]

2 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Well, those attributes are what you are attracted to.  If someone is intelligent, and a physician, and just generally very brilliant from an intellectual standpoint, then that's great for them.  That doesn't necessarily make them attractive.  To you it may, and if that's your thing then great. 

I think I'm reasonably intelligent, but that doesn't mean that I value that above all else when it comes to women.  For me, physical attraction is still #1, so clothing is huge to me, and to a lot of guys.  It's why tight dresses and high heels are a thing.  Women aren't forced to buy those things if they don't want to, but many do because that's what guys like.  The guys are on the demand side, and those women are responding to the demand. 

And it's not just one sided.  Guys go to the gym, get great jobs, buy fancy cars and homes, for who?  Women!  They're on the demand side for men, so they get to determine what's important too.  If that stuff didn't matter to women I'd still be in my 400 square foot apartment that costs $800 a month and I think many guys think the same way.  We don't need much.  But it's established (no matter what some women will say) what is generally attractive to women.  Not all women, but generally speaking.

I am sympathetic to the plight of women with regards to civil rights but I don't think that means that men have to stop liking what men have liked for hundreds of years.  It's just not practical.  We can't change what we like just because there are women in most career fields that are doing just as well (and in many cases better) than men.  Career doesn't have anything to do with romance, so doesn't really enter the equation for me.

If one doesn't want to dress in a certain way, they are not less than or more than, they are just not compatitble with a person that likes a woman that wears dresses and heels.  The only issue I have with OP is why did he start up with her if he knew she dressed a certain way?  Anyway, a physician won't have any trouble finding a guy that will accept her exactly as is, which is why I don't see this as some injustice or poor treatment that's being directed at her.  He's just seeing if she's flexible at all on this issue.  If she's not, then move on.  Women try to redress guys they're dating all the time, there seems to be a bit of a double standard.

 

Exactly. And exactly what l pointed out above there.  Nothing wrong with liking this or that , my womans tastes are huge for me . lt's nothing to do with some shallow whatever , l'm so far from shallow most people round here couldn't even fathom but the right stuff just really turns me on, love it , wrong stuff turns me off , simple as that in this area.  So what's wrong with that. And it's not expensive stuff or labels either, even one of my most favs is just old jeans and a top, l could look at her in those all day every day.  Most of the stuff l love on my woman are actually just very simple casual and def' not expensive stuff, l'm probably every woman's dream as clothes go haha , no need to spend anything much really or glam up.

Around the house is big for me too but again stuff l love is just really simple house stuff. Not much makes me wanna touch and hold her, watch her or look forward to bed more than just seeing her around in stuff l love through the day . l get where op's coming from for sure.  But at the same time , this is probably just her so there's probably not much he can do . lt has to be a natural thing,

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by chillii

[basil67]

6 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Of course no one is responsible for another person's happiness.  That said, I'm sure that at times you put the needs of the marriage ahead of your own needs through actions that don't necessarily serve any type of immediate gratification for yourself.  There are limits to everything and that's why you communicate and determine where those boundaries are.  Part of the OP's issue is communication.

You're comparing communicating an issue in an established, loving relationship with an issue for someone who's been on a few dates.   I don't agree with asking someone I barely know if they will change for me.  This early on, I'd look at who they are and see if I'm OK with that.  If  I'm not, then I'd move on.     

[dramafreezone]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You're comparing communicating an issue in an established, loving relationship with an issue for someone who's been on a few dates.   I don't agree with asking someone I barely know if they will change for me.  This early on, I'd look at who they are and see if I'm OK with that.  If  I'm not, then I'd move on.     

I've said multiple times that I don't even know why he started dating her if the wardrobe was an issue.  But since he is already dating her, he doesn't have anything to lose at this point if it's a dealbreaker.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Guys go to the gym, get great jobs, buy fancy cars and homes, for who?  Women!  

Seriously?   I thought men went to the gym to get fit for themselves.  That they got great jobs because it's the career they want and likewise, the house.  Fancy car?  I thought that was love of driving and the feel of performance.   

Why do men think that women like these things?   Sure, fit and healthy, solidly employed, not living in a dump and having a half decent car are plusses, but going over the top is just wanky.

[chillii]

That's very true too . And you should just naturally like these things about someone you've just met too, She would just have it, he would just have it. lf not then it's probably a dead duck right there.

Edited June 14, 2021 by chillii

[dramafreezone]

32 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Seriously?   I thought men went to the gym to get fit for themselves.  That they got great jobs because it's the career they want and likewise, the house.  Fancy car?  I thought that was love of driving and the feel of performance.   

 

Nope, you're wrong, it's all for attracting women, at least indirectly.

 

32 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Why do men think that women like these things?   Sure, fit and healthy, solidly employed, not living in a dump and having a half decent car are plusses, but going over the top is just wanky.

I'm glad you asked and I was hoping someone would.

Just a thought experiement; what is the one quality that women have that if they have nothing else, they can do pretty well dating?  It's a woman's beauty.  She can be purely rotten inside, but she'll still do well dating because that's what most men are attracted to, exterior beauty.   There are enough desparate guys that will go out with her to where she'll never experience any shortage.  That doesn't mean that guys aren't attracted to other things, but exterior beauty is what is what can singularly attract men with the exclusion of all other positive qualities.

So on the other side, what is that in men, the one quality that if they have that and nothing else they can do well with women?  It's a bit more complex, but I'd say it's confidence.  Confidence carries a man further than any other trait.  But no one is born with confidence, we're actually inherently insecure, so how do we gain confidence?  The lucky ones are born great looking, and they get external validation from their looks, which gives them confidence.  If a guy isn't born great looking, how does he gain confidence?  He goes to the gym, he buys nice clothes, he gets a great job, he becomes highly proficient at something.  There's confidence to be gained in feeling physically strong, confidence in having higher status, confidence in being better at something than most people in the world.  The more the better.

Even if men attribute those things to doing it for themselves, there's confidence gained in being healthy, confidence gained in acheiving the career you desire and accomplishing what you set out to do.

I just think if all women vanished from the face of the Earth, would men still be doing all of this stuff, working out, buying crap we don't need, riding around in covertibles?  And if all men vanished, would women get glammed up still and wear dresses that restrict their breathing, pluck their own eyebrows out of their head and wear high heels that hurt?  If that answer is no, then that's your answer, that tells you why they're doing it.

To tie this BACK into the topic (so that this doesn't get deleted) the preferences of men and women aren't really all that different than they've ever been, most men are attracted to beauty above all other qualities, women are attracted to confident men above all other qualities, so I don't think the OP should be shamed for wanting a woman that wears dresses, heels, makeup, etc.  But again I do agree that he shouldn't have even dated her in the first place.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dramafreezone

[basil67]

never mind.  Too much off topic

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by basil67

[luiscasabuena]

6 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Well, that's why I told him he should ask if she'd be willing to dress up a bit.  Ideally if this is so important to him he shouldn't even begin something unless he has a good sense of this woman's fashion, but that's beside the point now.  She had a negative response to his request, so that's that, he clearly knows how she feels.  But until he asked he couldn't know, only that she obviously has preferences.

Of course no one is responsible for another person's happiness.  That said, I'm sure that at times you put the needs of the marriage ahead of your own needs through actions that don't necessarily serve any type of immediate gratification for yourself.  There are limits to everything and that's why you communicate and determine where those boundaries are.  Part of the OP's issue is communication.

Thanks. I'm actually grateful that I even asked that question because after our small fight, we had a heart-to-heart talk and I felt stronger feelings for her. Communication is very important. If I have some preferences, so what? But the good thing to do is to open up about it. I don't know why others are making a big deal out of it. In a way, I like everything about her but the clothes just turned me off a bit. Why did I swipe right for her? Because she's wearing dresses on her Tinder profile. Wouldn't have done that if she was all groggy and all. My issue was, if you're going on a date with someone, you have to make some effort in presenting yourself. I felt offended when she doesn't care how she looks when on a date with me. I don't really make a lot of demands. I just want some simple presentation at the very least. 

But we're okay now. Actually. We don't really talk about this anymore. I'm okay if she doesn't make efforts. I'll just look her in the eyes and her face. It solves everything. Again, thank you for giving me a good advice.

 

[basil67]

 

2 hours ago, luiscasabuena said:

My issue was, if you're going on a date with someone, you have to make some effort in presenting yourself.   I felt offended when she doesn't care how she looks when on a date with me. I don't really make a lot of demands. I just want some simple presentation at the very least. 

.... I'm okay if she doesn't make efforts. I'll just look her in the eyes and her face. It solves everything. Again, thank you for giving me a good advice. 

Ummm...no.  People don't *have to* make an effort in how they present themselves.  There are no dating fashion police.  Sure, it certainly helps to make an effort, but it's ultimately about personal choice.  I can understand that you'd be disappointed, but she didn't do anything which would cause offense.

Given that you're offended, I don't think you are OK.  Especially as you will be deliberately averting your eyes from her clothes.  

 

 

[Daisydooks]

17 hours ago, chillii said:

Find some of the answers here a bit hard to believe.

There's theads here with women complaining about how he dresses , and the replies aren't exactly along the same forgiving lines as they are here for the way she dresses.

Probably won't even matter a damn anyway think ops got a few threads going about different women.

To be honest, you're not going to change a man into some GQ model either... and shouldnt. Haha I mean, sometimes men do need help in this category, and if they ask for it, or share a desire to look more dressy but arent sure what to buy, then sure, help them shop. Otherwise, meh! Dont try to change a truck driver into a GQ model. 

If he is comfortable in what he wears, it sure isnt up to me to change it. My partner usually wears sweats and a t-shirt daily. When he worked outside the home years ago, he would wear nice things and immediately change once home. Once he was "off the clock" he dressed like a 17 year old. If he wanted my opinion, Id give it. If he wanted to change it, Id help him. He likes wearing jeans and metal t-shirts (that are usually/mostly from a decade ago or more in some cases because he doesnt want to get rid of them.) Some are newer since his old ones are torn. Some he has torn the sleeves off because they started to tear. Hahahaha But the reality is, he isnt just going to start wearing dress shirts and dressier pants for me because I find him sexy in them. Of course on occasion, he will dress up as do I if we actually have anywhere to be. Our first date was in sweats! Hahahaha  Heck, during covid he has adopted a "zoom shirt look" wherein he wears a dress shirt with sweats. Super sexy! Hahahaha It doesn't bother me and he isnt here to impress me or dress himself for me. He is comfortable. Most of the time, he looks like he is ready for bed or dresses like a teenager (although his pants are around his waist at all times and always have been.) Its fine. I am still with him many moons later knowing this about him. I have been known to throw out holey socks and undies on him however. Hahahaha No shame in my throw holey stuff out game! 

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, luiscasabuena said:

If I have some preferences, so what? But the good thing to do is to open up about it. I don't know why others are making a big deal out of it.

If you have preferences then you should date people who match those preferences. You shouldn’t date someone who doesn’t have them and expect them to change for you. If my wife had asked me to dress differently I’d just be blunt and tell her I’d she wants a man that dresses differently she’s free to go date that man. It’s not me. 

[Wiseman2]

Maybe she does care and does make the effort but you're too blind to see it.

You seem to be from different socioeconomic backgrounds. That means you may believe that overdressing is expected.