Dilemma

[JohnnyF]

Hi. I am a married man. My wife has been chronically ill for many years. As a result, she's allowed me to have a relationship outside ours. I've met a married woman whom I like a lot. We're both middele aged. We've been doing outdoor activities on a number of occasions, usually a few short hours long and even a day trip, but she rarely mentions her husband. She's agreed to go camping with me for several days this summer. She made it clear we would need space for two tents but I wonder if that's just to protect herself. I've made it somewhat clear in a few emails that I like her and yet I haven't scared her off. I'm not certain but I suspect she and her husband may have marital issues but they are staying together for their kids. I want to open up or make a move but I don't want to lose her friendship nor do I want to offend her if I am mistaken about her current relationship. But then again, if she's agreed to drive far away with me for several days this summer on a camping trip, I can't imagine things are ok on her side. She is very discreet. Any sage advice? Thanks in advance.

[DKT3]

Most likely scenario is she enjoys the attention and time you spend with her. Its also likely she doesn't talk about her husband because she has compartmentalize the two relationships.  

Normally its a sign that she is simply bored at home, but there is not likely any major issues in her marriage and she likely has very little interest in any significant relationship with you...Now, with that said, most women who cheat on there husband never intend to get very serious, but most do in the end.

This will likely get very messy.

[chillii]

 

No sage advice but they must have issues or they have now that's for sure if she's off with you behind his back . That right there is the biggest issue any women could possibly make in a marriage so l'd have to know what's going on myself. l know you don't wanna lose it but !  Maybe he's a good man that has no idea , l couldn't be with her like that. Or maybe it is a really bad marriage and they aren't even together anymore in that sense , but l'd have to know the real truth.

The rest l'd say she have to be pretty daft not to expect you to make a move or end up in the one tent buttt, no idea how things are between you or how it started off and what was talked about , so unless it was just meant to be as friends .

 

[understand50]

She is married, I would not go on the trip, unless I knew they were in a open marriage. (I would need to hear it from her husband)  Cheating takes two, and hopefully one of you will have morals.  My self, she seems like she is on the edge of cheating, I would not let her cross the line.

[Pumpernickel]

14 minutes ago, understand50 said:

My self, she seems like she is on the edge of cheating, I would not let her cross the line.

Why? The OP has a "hall pass", due to his wife's illness, if I understand correctly. So if he decides to have a sexual relationship with that woman, he's not breaking any rules. And it's also not his responsibility to keep his new female friend from "crossing a line". That's her responsibility, and her husband's, and her H may be clued in as well. We don't know that.

You should ask her, @JohnnyF –  If she goes on an overnight trip with you, she has to tell her H something. She may (or may not) tell him the truth. 🤷‍♀️
I don't think it's weird to have 2 tents, either. I mean, it's not like you've known her for like ever, right? Doesn't mean sex won't happen eventually. 

 

[understand50]

Look,  it all comes down to morals.   Yes, he has a "Hall pass" but would you inflect pain on another person just for your own enjoyment?  Some people have lines, others not.  Myself, I would make sure both sides have "Hall Pass" before going forward.  That would be my standard. I would not want to be the other man, nor would I get involved with someone who is not free.  Just going forward, because it all about me, just would not sit right.  Here is another thing.  If I really liked,  and had some feeling for the woman, I would not want to place her in a situation where she would get hurt, by my actions.  Sometimes, you need to say no, or find out.  In the end, I would be looking for something, meaningful.  Using a married woman, with out knowing just what is going on seems like a situation where I could be causing a lot of pain to many that I may not want to.

My Opinion.

 

[HappilyMarried]

Hey @JohnnyFit sounds like you guys have become pretty close friends, you should have a long talk with her in two areas:1) Where is she and her husband at in the marriage? 2) I think after you see where they are in there marriage, let her know what you are feeling towards her and where you would like it to go. However let her know that you value her friendship and if that is all she wants in the relationship that you want to remain friends with her. best of luck!

[Wiseman2]

On 6/2/2021 at 3:34 PM, JohnnyF said:

She's agreed to go camping with me for several days this summer.

Find a better place to have some dinner company etc.

[JohnnyF]

Thanks for all your opinions. I met her today for a walk. I couldn't muster the courage to ask about her marital status. It's rather awkward and I'm afraid  to offend her. I gave her some flowers from my garden (she thanked me) with a card containing compliments as she was leaving but she didn't open the card before returning to her home. She texted back thanking for the walk but didn't mention the flowers or card. I know I have to open up. After all, I've sent her compliments in emails as well and she continues to see me. She told me she's going camping with her husband and kids so that always discourages me from talking about her status. But she's going camping several days with me in a few weeks. That's not a normal marriage. Spouses don't allow their better halves going away with a member of the opposite sex for several days. I see her in ten days for a hike. I have to find some way to break the ice.

[Pumpernickel]

Unless she has an open marriage as well. Why do you doubt that? Where did guy guys meet?

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, JohnnyF said:

Spouses don't allow their better halves going away with a member of the opposite sex for several days.

Allow? Cheaters lie.

[JohnnyF]

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think she's a cheater. She's said some subtle things that make me think their marriage is on the rocks and that perhaps they're together for their kids. I've also thought about an open marriage but she doesn't come across as the type. Again, the way she's said things made it sound she wasn't thrilled with her husband. But it's vague and can be interpreted in more than one way. She's Asian and not minding my business can be very offensive to some cultures and why I'm leery about asking about her marriage.

We met at an outdoor group outing ... she was alone, we talked and found we both shared similar interests. That led to several outdoor adventures this winter, all 2-4 hours long with one day trip. We're going on another day trip towards the end of this month. She said she missed a few weeks of work last fall because of some big problem and has had to see some therapist. She didn't say what it was of course but that might be a marital problem, as it often is. She did tell me that she might tell me about it at our camping trip this summer. 

Why would a woman not respond to compliments but continue to see me? Is she waiting for me to make a move? Is she embarrassed? Truthfully, she did thank me twice on small compliments I made. But on the longer, more intense, ones ... nada. She obviously knows I like her. 

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, JohnnyF said:

 I don't think she's a cheater. She's said some subtle things that make me think their marriage is on the rocks 

Well all cheater's spouses "don't understand them", it's par for the course.

But you're married also, so perhaps this is what you are seeking. 

[Amethyst68]

You're making some big assumptions here. 

First that she'll actually go on this trip with you. You may find she's just caught up in the fantasy of planning the whole escape from reality thing. 

Second, why do you think her husband knows about you? Do you really think she's told her husband she's planning on going away with another man while he looks after their children? I sincerely doubt it, if she's talked about meeting you at all I have no, especially this proposed trip I think it's highly likely you'll have been disguised as a girl friend. 

[JohnnyF]

Yes, you may be perfectly correct that she's told him she's going with a girl friend of hers. That remains to be seen. I'm obviously going to have to ask her if he knows about me. But he'd still have to look after their kids even if she in fact went with a girl friend of hers. But, if in fact they are sort of separated but living together for the sake of their kids, then he wouldn't care who she's going with. She did tell me once on a hike we were doing, with a sort of cynical tone in her voice, that she had no clue what he was doing that morning. Like I said, there are subtle things she's said and the way she's said them that make me suspect they're not happily married. I could be wrong of course but those are my gut feelings. She also told me she's the boss in her family, FWIW.

But I am confident she is planning to go on the camping trip because she's already paid close to $100 as deposit (each of us have) on campsite and boat rentals. The agreement was that if one cancels for any reason, the loss is incurred by each.

[Amethyst68]

There's a big difference between a husband looking after his children while his wife goes away on a girl's trip and one where's she's going away with a married man wanting to have sex with her and don't pretend otherwise!

Nowhere have you mentioned she's even hinted they're in house separated, just that she's unhappy,  that's a big jump to make. 

 

[JohnnyF]

I agree. Like I said, it's a gut feeling. I could be wrong.

[Amethyst68]

There is one other thing to think about. When your wife gave you permission to have sex with another woman do you think she thought there'd be this degree of entanglement with the other person or did she think it would be a completely no strings attached sexual relationship.

Obviously you don't have to give private details of your life but just think about what exactly was agreed with your wife and keep to any ground rules agreed. 

[Caauug]

On 6/3/2021 at 3:34 AM, JohnnyF said:

My wife has been chronically ill for many years. As a result, she's allowed me to have a relationship outside ours.

Relationship or sex, there is a difference. Does your wife see this as you are trying to break up their marriage for your wife's replacement? Your wife doesn't even know what you are up to, does she?

Depends where you live, paying good money and getting a professional can be so much safer. No angry husbands looking for revenge, no OW looking for more, no broken marriages, no guessing if she wants to.... 

[elaine567]

She has made it clear two tents are required so I doubt she thinks this little trip will include sex.
It sounds like a platonic friendship to me from her POV.
She now has a companion to do outdoor activities with.
Yes, you are interested in "more".
However women are often good at managing "orbiters" whilst keeping everything strictly "above board".
It likely explains the no response to your compliments.
She just doesn't see you in that way, but is happy to keep the activities going.

How old are you? How old is she?

[Wiseman2]

It's difficult to find a sex partner when you have decided you want an open relationship.

If you go after single women,the fact that this won't go anywhere may be offputting.

If you go after married women, you're entering a mess of complications.

You and your wife have picked an arrangement that basically only works for you.

I think it's unwise to chase married women (or single women) because neither will want to put up with your arrangement in the long run.

If you claim you have an open relationship and it's ok to have extramarital sex, why are you seeking complex emotional involvements?

Why not just hook up for sex if your ill wife is your primary relationship?

Are you concerned you would look like a heel if you simply got divorced?

Who'll take care of your wife while you're out entertaining women trying to score?

Edited June 6, 2021 by Wiseman2

[JohnnyF]

Had to look up what was meant by an "orbiter". We're middle-aged (think 40's and 50's). The more opinions I read, the more I realize I just have to face the music and have an honest talk with this woman and let the chips fall where they may.

 

This all started out innocently and we quickly became good friends as we both enjoy the outdoors and having pleasant conversations. For better or for worse, I developed feelings for her and she knows it as I've made it pretty obvious. Yet she continues to see me in spite of her being married. I would think many, perhaps most, married women would be scared off in such a situation. I can understand single women and perhaps unhappily-married women using men as "orbiters" but not happily-married women. If I am an "orbiter", then I have to back out completely or learn to accept her just as a friend and enjoy an occasional outing. Easier said than done but I have no choice.

 

But I'm still curious as to why she would agree to go camping with another man for close to a week hundreds of miles and many hours away from home. Is it possible that she just trusts me because she's gotten to know me and she feels safe because she knows I'm married? She knows my wife is ill but doesn't know our arrangement. Even if she's going on this trip because of trust, what would she tell her husband? Either she's lied and told him she's going with a female friend or they have some sort of arrangement (for the sake of their kids) and are not in a happy relationship. Perhaps they each have their turn at caring for their kids when one wants a vacation with someone else (their kids are very early and late teens so they're not that high maintenance). Again, I base that on subtle things she's said and how she's said them. Doesn't mean I'm right, just a gut feeling.

 

I, of course, am not leaving my wife. Oddly as it may sound, I love her and consider her my best friend. But being married to a chronically-ill person for years takes a toll on a human being, mentally, emotionally and physically. My wife knows that. If this woman is in a special relationship with her husband as I suspect, then she's not leaving her household either. If this is the case, then this would be an ideal situation for us both since we both are unwilling to change our current lives but could enjoy a special relationship outside the home. It's not just about sex. It's also about maintaining a friendship with someone with whom I share interests. If she is happily-married and this is just a platonic relationship for her, then I have to know about it so I can deal with it. Honestly, I'm not into chasing all sorts of women just for sex. I'd be much happier having a relationship with one woman who I consider a friend. Perhaps not easy to find but I have an opportunity here and I have to know if it's workable.

 

I am supposed to meet her in the near future. I hope to have a talk with her then so I know where I stand. Wish me luck. Over and out.

[elaine567]

40 minutes ago, JohnnyF said:

Is it possible that she just trusts me because she's gotten to know me and she feels safe because she knows I'm married

Maybe. Also if there is a bit of an age gap or cultural/educational or any other differences, she may not see you as a viable option, even if her marriage is in trouble.

A big talk is necessary to find out exactly where you stand, before you go any further.

Also I can see organising an "arrangement for sex" in your circumstances but if your wife is your "best friend" then why are you apparently making a "best friend" out of another woman? A married woman at that?
I am not sure how happy your wife would be about it OR this woman's husband...

 I am sorry but this has potential disaster written all over it. 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I am sorry but this has potential disaster written all over it. 

Agree. One of the four of you will be hurt. Guaranteed if you follow through with an extramarital affair. 

[IslandSanctuary]

This woman is behaving inappropriately as she is married. Going camping, just the two of you for several days? 
Just come right out with it, ask her if she is interested in more - and if she acts shocked and tries to take the moral high ground just drill her with how leading on an orbiter who is obviously interested(flowers, cards, time together etc) is shady asf and what the hell does she expect. 
F being her husband.