Does it every work out?

[Prudence V]

Just now, LostinLove2 said:

why isn’t he just finding something simpler to mess around with? 

Sunk costs fallacy? Who knows? It’s highly possible he does love you, and does want to be with you “one day” - but in his (conflict avoidant) mind that skips forward some distance into the future, where his BW has divorced him, handed over shared custody, and you’ve quietly been waiting on the sidelines all this time mopping his fevered brow. It doesn’t involve him actually exercising agency, ending the M on his own terms (mutually agreed, with shared custody) so that you finally get a FTR. He is doing the “magical thinking” thing, where wishing makes it happen, without him having to be the bad guy. 

[BaileyB]

12 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

It doesn’t involve him actually exercising agency

This would require him to consult a lawyer and file for divorce. 

12 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

in his (conflict avoidant) mind that skips forward some distance into the future, where his BW has divorced him, handed over shared custody, and you’ve quietly been waiting on the sidelines all this time mopping his fevered brow.

This is the fantasy, but it’s little more than magical thinking. 

What Prudence is saying is, how is he going to get from point A to point B? It’s his life, if he is not happy in his marriage then how does he plan to create the life he wants for himself? The only thing I’ve heard you say is “wait passively for his wife to file for divorce.”

Edited June 6, 2021 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

10 minutes ago, LostinLove2 said:

why isn’t he just finding something simpler to mess around with?

I would guess, you, despite your moaning and impatience may be the best he can find... 
It is easier to go along with you, than start anew with someone else, someone who may be a loose cannon, someone who may blow up his marriage.
MM are often predictable, they usually do exactly what is best for themselves.
If he actually wanted to replace you tomorrow, he would. 

[LostinLove2]

I appreciate all this. So here I am thinking “now what?” I don’t want to push him towards something not on his timeline and have him resent me for it later. 
 

I think I am guilty of “sunken cost fallacy” as well. What if I jump ship too soon? I realize I am relying on the advice from strangers, but I am asking for sound advice based on experience and not bitterness. What do I do now? 

[LostinLove2]

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I would guess, you, despite your moaning and impatience may be the best he can find... 
It is easier to go along with you, than start anew with someone else, someone who may be a loose cannon, someone who may blow up his marriage.
MM are often predictable, they usually do exactly what is best for themselves.
If he actually wanted to replace you tomorrow, he would. 

I fear you might be right. I am not the “rock the boat” type of person. I don’t go run and cry to his wife when things aren’t going my way. I’ve given him plenty of chances to walk away and again, I’m not making any of this easy for him. It’s got to suck having the mistress and the wife nagging from both sides. 

[BaileyB]

If it was me, I would tell him to contact me when he has divorce papers in hand. And then, I would end it. 

I’m sure that’s really scary for you, but it’s the best way. If you want him to make the decision to end his marriage because it is the best decision for him, this is how you do it. It allows him the time he needs to work through the logistics, to re-establish himself, and to support his child to adjust as she adjusts to the new reality. 

If you decide to stay, there is no incentive for him to change anything. He has everything, your presence in his life actually allows him to stay in his marriage because you make life more palatable. Walk away, and he has a decision to make. If he really wants to be with you, he will do what is required to make that happen. And if he doesn’t, then you have not wasted any more of your precious time on a dead end relationship. You are free to find what you really want in your life, a life partner who is present and able to commit to you and you alone. You deserve nothing less...

Edited June 6, 2021 by BaileyB

[LostinLove2]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

If you want him to make the decision to end his marriage because it is the best decision for him, this is how you do it without any influence or pressure from you. It allows him the time he needs to work through the logistics, to establish himself, and to allow his child to adjust to the new reality. 

Thank you. Hard to hear, but what I needed to hear. It is easier said than done, but I think this is the best possible scenario for both of us. I really don’t want him to leave her for me. I think the two of them need time to sort their life out without me being a factor in any of it. Once a decision is made and he seeks me out after the divorce, then this was actually something for both of us. If he doesn’t, then I guess lesson learned and I’m a little bit more careful choosing someone next time. 

[BaileyB]

Just know, if he is the kind of conflict avoidant man who is waiting passively for his wife to file for divorce - he is likely also the kind of man to want a safety net if/when he actually ends his marriage. He will want to lean on you and you will be very tempted to offer him support because you care for him. Lots of stories on this board of women who have done just that only to have it not work out as planned (either he returns to his wife/family or he decides to pursue other women). It can be very difficult for women when they have offered their love and support only to have it not work out just as they thought they were finally getting everything they ever wanted. That’s a sad realization, that you wasted all that time on a man who has not followed through with their promises and truly used you for their own benefit. 

You give your relationship the best opportunity to be successful when you come together from a position of strength - as two independent people who chose to be together. Both partners have their lives in order, an established relationship with their former spouses, children are well supported and happy, and finances are stable and well sorted. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

What is your relationship history and how did you meet this man?
He is approx 43, how old are you?

Edited June 6, 2021 by elaine567

[LostinLove2]

17 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

What is your relationship history and how did you meet this man?
He is approx 43, how old are you?

He is 43 and I am 41. We met at a work training event. We do not work together, but work in the same field. 
 

I am divorced and have been for about 10 years now. I have been happily single for a very long time. Made sure to get myself stable after my divorce before I opted to get in any relationship. This is his first marriage and I don’t think he would’ve ever married. They had a pretty quick relationship. He met her, she got pregnant after a few months of dating and they got married quickly before their daughter was born. They are coming up on 7 years married this fall. Their daughter is 6, almost 7. 
 

He was upfront from the beginning that he was married, but they were heading towards a separation and unhappy. I went into this figuring nothing was going to become of it, but I ended up falling in love. Stupid me. Perhaps if I met him a few months later, he would’ve been divorced by the time our paths crossed. Maybe I am making it too comfortable for them to divorce. 

[BaileyB]

16 minutes ago, LostinLove2 said:

Perhaps if I met him a few months later, he would’ve been divorced by the time our paths crossed.

I sincerely doubt it.

“Moving toward separation” is very different than filing for divorce. Words are easily said, “we are unhappy, we are moving toward separation.” Ignore his words and attend to his actions. It has been seven years, three and a half since you have been together and he is no closer to divorce today than he was the day you met. That tells you all you really need to know. 

 

[LostinLove2]

53 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I sincerely doubt it.

“Moving toward separation” is very different than filing for divorce. Words are easily said, “we are unhappy, we are moving toward separation.” Ignore his words and attend to his actions. It has been seven years, three and a half since you have been together and he is no closer to divorce today than he was the day you met. That tells you all you really need to know. 

 

The mirror I needed. I have some serious soul searching to do and him and I need to sit down and talk. I think we’ve reached the end of the road until he gets a divorce. 
 

Appreciate you all. 

[stillafool]

Normally when and if they do end up divorcing they don't move on with the OW becauuse she's a reminder of a painful time.  They move on to another woman.  It's happened time and again around here.   The ones who do end up leaving for the OW make definite plans and do it.  No stalling.

Edited June 6, 2021 by stillafool

[elaine567]

58 minutes ago, LostinLove2 said:

We met at a work training event.

Fate dealt you a pretty poor hand there...

Now you need to concentrate on extricating yourself.
I agree with Bailey he is no further forward than he was the day you met.
He may have even gone backwards
Acquiring an OW can make an unbearable marriage, bearable

[LostinLove2]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Acquiring an OW can make an unbearable marriage, bearable

Sigh...sadly you are 100% correct. I think instead of moving towards being exclusive, I’m helping him stay in his marriage. 

[Wiseman2]

26 minutes ago, LostinLove2 said:

I’m helping him stay in his marriage. 

Not really. Since mistresses are disposable at any time, he would simply find another.

[elaine567]

40 minutes ago, LostinLove2 said:

I think instead of moving towards being exclusive, I’m helping him stay in his marriage. 

I am afraid you are.
Trouble is you have no real power here.
He calls the shots, you wait expectantly, but you can't force his hand. You can't make him divorce 
It has to be his decision.
His marriage, his wife, his child, his life... you are on the outside looking in.

[Beentheretoooften]

On 6/5/2021 at 12:17 PM, LostinLove2 said:

 My question is does it ever actually work out?  Are there any successful relationships that spawn from affairs?  I'm seriously asking.    

Hi.  I think 2% end up together and make it to 5 years.   That’s 2 out of 100.  

[Birdies]

On 6/5/2021 at 10:17 AM, LostinLove2 said:

I have been with him for 3.5 years.  Him and his wife have been married for almost 7 years.  He outright said he is waiting for his wife to leave him because he feels it gives him a better chance of getting custody of his daughter.   It is what it is. My question is does it ever actually work out?  Are there any successful relationships that spawn from affairs?  I'm seriously asking.    

I was married and in an affair with a married coworker for about a year before everything blew up spectacularly. We both ended up getting divorced, took some time to work on ourselves, kept dating, and eventually got married about 2.5 years later.  We've been married for several years and have a child and we are very very happy together, despite various life challenges.  So yes, it can work.

However.... the fact that he's made NO move to leave his wife is not a good sign.  This is 2021, dads get 50/50 custody unless there are extreme circumstances.  And in most states, infidelity has nothing to do with divorce proceedings or custody arrangements.  That sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.  And i get it, it must be incredibly hard to think of splitting up your family and only being with your child half the time.  But open your eyes and see this excuse for what it is.

[Birdies]

On 6/6/2021 at 7:57 AM, LostinLove2 said:

Many of our arguments center around me being impatient and my needs not being met. He knows I’m getting very frustrated in waiting. I haven’t made it easy for him when it comes to this. To be honest, I don’t know why he hasn’t walked away. He could easily just have an affair with the sex and a whole lot less drama with someone else. If this isn’t something, then why isn’t he just finding something simpler to mess around with? 

I'm sure he really likes you, and he may even be in love with you.  However, it's still a big jump from that to leaving a marriage and the mother of your child.  

I would advise that you set a deadline and stick to it.  You could just keep the date to yourself if you don't want to give him an ultimatum.  But do you really want to be living this life 1 or 3 or 10 years down the line?  When you could have a true relationship with someone you love, and enjoy ALL the benefits of a partnership, not just stealing away a few moments here and there when someone can fit you into 5% of their life?  

Or, it's an even better idea (as BaileyB advised and as you are considering), to just end it and tell him to contact you when and if he's truly single (and can prove it).  Then, try not to hold your breath.  Best of luck ❤️

Edited June 8, 2021 by Birdies

[HadMeOverABarrel]

On 6/6/2021 at 10:19 AM, LostinLove2 said:

It’s got to suck having the mistress and the wife nagging from both sides. 

He's probably used to this, drowns it out, ignores, avoids. That's his style. Maybe he's even developed his own little technique to deal with it like letting his mind drift to sports with the nagging begins. Maybe he just tells himself all women nag so it's just something to put up with to get the benefits. 

More importantly, you should consider the very real possibility that your involvement is actually keeping his marriage afloat. You supplement what he's not getting from his marriage making it more tolerable to stay married. You are actually enabling him to stay married because you making it more comfortable for him to do so.

Edited to add: I wrote this before seeing other comments basically saying the same thing, so clearly I concur. Turn over a new leaf, OP. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by HadMeOverABarrel

[SumGuy]

Ignore all the folks telling you specifics on how divorce and custody work.   These laws vary from state to state, country to country.   And even judge to judge.   Only a lawyer in your jurisdiction can tell you if his reasoning holds any water.   

[LostinLove2]

On 6/8/2021 at 2:20 PM, Birdies said:

I was married and in an affair with a married coworker for about a year before everything blew up spectacularly. We both ended up getting divorced, took some time to work on ourselves, kept dating, and eventually got married about 2.5 years later.  We've been married for several years and have a child and we are very very happy together, despite various life challenges.  So yes, it can work.

This does give me some hope that it could actually work, as rare as it sounds. While it may be a line, he keeps telling me to be patient. I don’t know if this is to hold me off or to get his ducks in a row. I’m hoping for ducks. lol. Did you find yourselves having petty arguments during that year or all bliss? I feel like as time moves on, the more impatient I am getting and it’s leading to constant bickering.  

[LostinLove2]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:43 AM, HadMeOverABarrel said:

More importantly, you should consider the very real possibility that your involvement is actually keeping his marriage afloat. You supplement what he's not getting from his marriage making it more tolerable to stay married. You are actually enabling him to stay married because you making it more comfortable for him to do so.

I have taken this into consideration and I’m slowly moving towards no contact. I am not going to ghost him, as he hasn’t done anything to deserve that and I do still love him. I am taking longer to reply to his messages and I’m backing off from doing the sweet things I normally do. I’m not ready to go full no contact yet, but maybe my creeping absence will either make him determined to keep me or will be enough for him to move on and walk away. I’m prepared for either. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

8 minutes ago, LostinLove2 said:

I have taken this into consideration and I’m slowly moving towards no contact. I am not going to ghost him, as he hasn’t done anything to deserve that and I do still love him. I am taking longer to reply to his messages and I’m backing off from doing the sweet things I normally do. I’m not ready to go full no contact yet, but maybe my creeping absence will either make him determined to keep me or will be enough for him to move on and walk away. I’m prepared for either. 

If you don't mind my two cents...

Maybe you are hoping your backing off will "snap him to his senses" to finally see he could lose you and will then make his commitment. It's a 'tactic' that many women, in affairs and in typical romantic relationships, employ. It seldom works out well. If anything, it prolongs your pain as you vigilantly watch for signs that he will finally give you the validation you're seeking about your status with him and to him. When the desired result is not realized or lasting, the woman employing the tactic feels even more hopeless and out of control. 

Better would be to tell him head on that, while you care for him, you don't want this arrangement anymore for yourself. You could tell him you can't go on with only bits of him.  You could say that if he's ever fully free to explore a full-time committed relationship, you hope he will look you up when/if that time comes and if you're not committed to someone else. 

That would be you taking control of your life and letting him know where you stand. That would demonstrate that you value yourself to not accept scraps. That might teach him to value you more in the process of being 100% committed to cutting contact while he remains married/attached to someone else. 

Think about it. Think what would make you feel the most empowered, and the best about yourself, and then take action.