It doesn't make sense to me

[Lotsgoingon]

People are often clueless, wildly clueless about having serious conversations. So the woman in this case is just being dumb--and self-serving. Your job is to NOT CARE about her own guilt. You have enough work to forgive your spouse and rebuild yourself and your trust in your spouse.  

Just recently heard of a married couple where the cheating husband (who had cheated for decades) ... kept emphasizing his own pain about how bad he feels about hurting his wife. In this case, the counselor had to tell him to shut up with his own pain. Comfort your wife, the counselor said. She's the one dealt the injustice and betrayal. Shut the eff up about how hurt you are. The guy finally seemed to get it. 

[BaileyB]

10 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Just recently heard of a married couple where the cheating husband (who had cheated for decades) ... kept emphasizing his own pain about how bad he feels about hurting his wife. In this case, the counselor had to tell him to shut up with his own pain. Comfort your wife, the counselor said. She's the one dealt the injustice and betrayal. Shut the eff up about how hurt you are. The guy finally seemed to get it. 

In much the same way that it’s difficult to listen to those having the affair bellyache about how difficult it is to live a double life and how they struggle to decide which relationship they want to have… Some people just have a difficult time considering a different perspective other than their own, very self self centered and self serving perspective. 

[Sugarkane]

You try and justify it by wishful thinking and you don’t know the persons spouse personally. So maybe they are difficult spouse. How would you know, if you don’t actually know the spouse?

[BaileyB]

14 minutes ago, Sugarkane said:

You try and justify it by wishful thinking and you don’t know the persons spouse personally. So maybe they are difficult spouse. How would you know, if you don’t actually know the spouse?

How do you know they are not the kindest, most wonderful person? A wonderful wife and mother. You don’t actually know. 

[PhoenixRising8]

48 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

How do you know they are not the kindest, most wonderful person? A wonderful wife and mother. You don’t actually know. 

So true. xMM’s BS was not as he made her out to be. A bit rough around the edges perhaps but a genuinely nice person very invested in her family, friends, community and marriage, despite what he put her through. I felt terrible answering her questions because I knew the answers would hurt her but she had been gaslighted for years. Thought everything was her fault. She didn’t deserve that. Neither did the kids. But it was all about him. We both finally understood that. The reality of who he is turned out to be very different from what we thought he was. 

[LostinLove2]

I am currently the OW for 3.5 years and haven’t been caught. No judgement please, but I do feel bad for his wife. I feel on some level she knows I exist and it must be horrible having that constant feeling of knowing your spouse is cheating. She’s in her mid-40’s and I feel like he’s robbing her of time to find someone who genuinely loves her and will treat her how she should be treated. I am no saint in all of this and I don’t have any mental issues like some implied in this post by saying the OW can’t have sympathy without being mental. I think she deserves better. 
 

At some point I will walk away from all of this and I’m sure he will just replace me with a new OW. Of course I want us to work out, but I’m also a realist. His poor wife will be subjected to a life of constant cheating until she’s had enough and despite my situation, I don’t wish that on anyone. 

[Wiseman2]

People love listening to their own self serving schmaltz. 

This is one of those instances.

[pepperbird2]

13 hours ago, LostinLove2 said:

I am currently the OW for 3.5 years and haven’t been caught. No judgement please, but I do feel bad for his wife. I feel on some level she knows I exist and it must be horrible having that constant feeling of knowing your spouse is cheating. She’s in her mid-40’s and I feel like he’s robbing her of time to find someone who genuinely loves her and will treat her how she should be treated. I am no saint in all of this and I don’t have any mental issues like some implied in this post by saying the OW can’t have sympathy without being mental. I think she deserves better. 
 

At some point I will walk away from all of this and I’m sure he will just replace me with a new OW. Of course I want us to work out, but I’m also a realist. His poor wife will be subjected to a life of constant cheating until she’s had enough and despite my situation, I don’t wish that on anyone. 

I mean no offence when I say this, but this is exactly what I don't understand.
You go on at length about how you feel bad for his wife, yet you are the one helping to hurt her. I know if it wasn't you, it would probably be someone else, but it is you.
I don't think I could do that. I'd feel guilty.

[BaileyB]

15 hours ago, LostinLove2 said:

She’s in her mid-40’s and I feel like he’s robbing her of time to find someone who genuinely loves her and will treat her how she should be treated.

They are where they want to be.
People file for divorce every single day of the week. If they wanted to divorce, they would divorce. 
If you want to feel sorry for the woman, feel sorry that she is married to a man who lies to her and cheats on her. But, she is not wasting time any more than she is living her life with her family. They share a life together, they have kids together, there is a shared history and so many memories… She is not wasting her time unless you are of the opinion that he is going to leave her and walk off into the sunset with you… And until he files for divorce, this is not the case. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by BaileyB

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

I don't think I could do that. I'd feel guilty.

But you are made from different stuff all together...

[Birdies]

Because people are complicated, and life isn't black and white.  Have you ever done something you know is wrong, and you felt guilty about it, but you did it anyway?  So, there's your answer.

That said, I agree it's super hypocritical to contact the BS and apologize. That probably just creates more pain than just staying out of contact with her/him.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Birdies

[pepperbird2]

On 6/9/2021 at 12:18 PM, Starswillshine said:

What i experienced was something like this:

OW: you're a fake. You're whole world you present is a fake. I feel sorry for you. I am sorry I hurt you. I am a good person. Why can't you just forgive me. <insert all the yelling and threats and insults thrown at me> i said I was sorry.... 

It is quite comical that after all they (WS and AP) have done, they expect you to just forgive them and be best friends or something. OW was a no one to me, she was inconsequential... I did not care how she felt and it felt like assault to constantly be told about her feelings. "I'm going to kill myself over what I have done." K? And.... 

Yeah, I got that too. It was weird. I got messages ranging from "I am so sorry. You;re a nice person" to " I hate you. I'm self harming and it's your fault. I hope it makes you feel awful" and even ones where she said we should be friends and if I was having marriage trouble in the future, I could talk to her about it.
It was bizarre. Who thinks like that?

[pepperbird2]

On 6/11/2021 at 5:27 PM, Birdies said:

Because people are complicated, and life isn't black and white.  Have you ever done something you know is wrong, and you felt guilty about it, but you did it anyway?  So, there's your answer.

That said, I agree it's super hypocritical to contact the BS and apologize. That probably just creates more pain than just staying out of contact with her/him.

Actually, I use that guilt as a guide,. If I feel guilty, it's likely something I shouldn't be doing.
I'm not being smug when I say that- it's actually a very selfish motive. I don't like feeling guilty.

[Starswillshine]

2 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

Yeah, I got that too. It was weird. I got messages ranging from "I am so sorry. You;re a nice person" to " I hate you. I'm self harming and it's your fault. I hope it makes you feel awful" and even ones where she said we should be friends and if I was having marriage trouble in the future, I could talk to her about it.
It was bizarre. Who thinks like that?

Oh yes, the friends bit was a bit strange. I got recipes. Freaking recipes. WTH? "Thought you might like to make these with the kids." <---- ummm..... what? 

[pepperbird2]

2 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

Oh yes, the friends bit was a bit strange. I got recipes. Freaking recipes. WTH? "Thought you might like to make these with the kids." <---- ummm..... what? 

Really, it shows an absolute lack of understanding about how others feel. No empathy at all. I really believe some aren't capable of it- it's all about them and what they want. they go through life like a human wrecking ball, completely oblivious to the damage they cause.

Edited June 14, 2021 by pepperbird2

[Timshel]

Pepperbird, water always finds it's level. At any moment of any given day, a person is exactly where they are. They may not stay there, no person can be the judge of that; but there they are. So much folly to say a person 'deserves' better, based on what? Their current actions of the day?

A challenge is an opportunity. Every human on the face of earth has challenges, what is done is all that matters. It's tedious when a person has a multitude of choices and so very many who are significantly more brave in the face of challenge do not.

I would agree, people who have the luxury of screwing up their lives and the lives of others do have a lack of education/empathy and far too much time on their hands.

[mark clemson]

9 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

 I got recipes. Freaking recipes.

This person clearly wasn't (isn't) thinking straight if they are somehow trying to make you an acquaintance while pulling all the other stuff you have described. My guess would be some sort of mental health issue.

[Poppy47]

On 6/10/2021 at 11:26 AM, BaileyB said:

How do you know they are not the kindest, most wonderful person? A wonderful wife and mother. You don’t actually know. 

He or she might be popular and well respected in the community.  At home they could be abusive, selfish, unresponsive to the partner's needs.  You just never know. Before you go sympathising for the BS, remember there are always two sides to everything.

[DKT3]

On 6/8/2021 at 7:40 PM, MsJayne said:

Valid point. Perhaps because men are less likely to fake emotions than women are, and are more likely to own their bad behaviour rather than seek ways to minimise it by pretending to feel bad. Women tend to seek social approval more than men, so grovelling to their AP's wife is part of the scenario of being found out. "Oh no, I'm so sorry, I thought your marriage was over and we can't help who we fall for", sounds less offensive than, "I couldn't care less about you or your kids, I felt like banging your husband". 

This is exactly what it is.  In general,  men veiw sex differently then women. I know 90% of MW/OW will say its not sex, but I'd bet 90% of the men those women are in an affair with would disagree.  In turn there is no need for men to justify to themselves why they are doing what they are doing so no need for guilt and/or shame therefore no empathy for the BH.

I recall thinking at one point after my wifes affair that I dont blame the guy for doing what he did. Wife is good look and more then willing. Point being,  it was even difficult for me to emphasize with myself through his point of view.

I honestly believe that most women in affairs feel bad for everyone involved,  just not enough to stop themselves. I also agree with the fear of social ramifications.  When it comes to sex and relationships women are held to a higher standard,  society is still more willing to accept a cheating man while cheating women tend to become social outcasts,  even by her closest friends and family. 

[DKT3]

40 minutes ago, Poppy47 said:

He or she might be popular and well respected in the community.  At home they could be abusive, selfish, unresponsive to the partner's needs.  You just never know. Before you go sympathising for the BS, remember there are always two sides to everything.

If we are being honest,  the BSs behavior is subjective when an affair is involved.  We have seen time and time again a very high percentage of WS come here and claim the BS is directly related to the devil.  I, personally seldom believe it....all we know for sure is they (WS) are cheating. That in itself calls thier words into question...right?

[S2B]

56 minutes ago, Poppy47 said:

He or she might be popular and well respected in the community.  At home they could be abusive, selfish, unresponsive to the partner's needs.  You just never know. Before you go sympathising for the BS, remember there are always two sides to everything.

And the ones that aren’t acting very nice to their spouse… the reason could be because they are betraying them - and they can feel the betrayal.

the one cheating is taking their time and energy AWAY from the spouse. they are also lying and being sneaky. Who wouldn’t respond accordingly under that kind of treatment and betrayal?

[heartwhole2]

56 minutes ago, Poppy47 said:

He or she might be popular and well respected in the community.  At home they could be abusive, selfish, unresponsive to the partner's needs.  You just never know. Before you go sympathising for the BS, remember there are always two sides to everything.

Are you saying that your assessment of a person's character determines whether you sympathize when tragedy strikes them? That's not how I view the world. I'm glad that in the early days after DDay, I felt really sorry for the OW. Later as the shock wore off and it felt more personal, I struggled more, but in those first moments I understood that hurt people hurt people. I was sorry for whatever circumstances could lead a person to make destructive choices. 

Let's say I knew of someone who was really just a terrible person, and they were cheated on or otherwise hurt or knocked down a peg. I wouldn't think, "serves them right." I'd think, how sad for them that they don't know how to fill their bucket with good things, that they don't know how to love and what to value in this life, that they suffer the natural consequences of bad choices. I would imagine their problems are a combination of family history and trauma and brain chemistry. I would think how lucky I am to have the good things in my life, and wish that for others.

I also think that compassion for self and compassion for others are two sides of the same coin. 

[BaileyB]

Good points made above. Yes, there are two sides to every story but perception becomes reality in some cases. And, when one has a personal agenda that tends to cloud the situation even more…

Believe it or not, I wasn’t actually trying to sympathize with the BS as much as I was trying to present an alternate perspective. It’s funny how the same thing can look completely different depending which side of the street you stand. One person’s “wasted time” is another person’s “daily family life.”

Edited June 15, 2021 by BaileyB

[Poppy47]

53 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

If we are being honest,  the BSs behavior is subjective when an affair is involved.  We have seen time and time again a very high percentage of WS come here and claim the BS is directly related to the devil.  I, personally seldom believe it....all we know for sure is they (WS) are cheating. That in itself calls thier words into question...right?

Nothing is black and white or transparent.... that's all we know.

Poppy.

[DKT3]

44 minutes ago, Poppy47 said:

Nothing is black and white or transparent.... that's all we know.

Poppy.

This is false...how you treat people is black and white. Right and wrong can be a grey area....cheating is never a grey area its always black. This way of thinking is really an attempt to not hold yourself accountable for your actions.  My wife treats me poorly,  doesn't give me the amount of sex I think I deserve so its a green light to grab another woman...its not my fault its a grey area...worse yet she finds out and now she treats me even worse and give me no sex...its not my fault time to grab another other woman....at what point does my poor coping skills play a part in this whole thing? Or can I continue to blame my devil of a wife?