Set up for the truth

[msoptimisticagain]

Amethyst68 Have not given any thoughts to him coming back. I’m going to defer to the fact that it has happened many times but I don’t see it happening and I don’t see him giving up my identity but I am preparing for that possibility.

Yes, online counseling is a possibility but wow navigating all the websites is daunting. So not sure what’s good and what’s a money pit but I am researching it!

And let me say that my one sane decision during all this was protection to avoid STDs, pregnancies (at the beginning!), etc. That is one thing that is not an issue!

[Allupinnit]

Well it's been noted around here that that is THE one way to ensure the MM stays away - tell the wife.  So even though you didn't out yourself, I guess you got the message across.

The unfortunate thing is though, now she's been lied to by both of you and he's probably talked his way out of it.  He's laying low until her guard is back down.  You made her believe her husband *MAY* have flirted with someone when in reality he had another woman for over a decade! (longer than a lot of marriages these days)

[msoptimisticagain]

Allupinnit True. I was trying to not make it as bad, just see what his reaction would be but for her I guess it’s worse wondering who else is going to come out with a story or proof. I can stop my horrible decisions going forward but I can’t take back what’s already done. But if he had wormed his way out of it so easily why ghost me and then have to worm his way back in with me if that’s what he wanted? My decision was made when I realized how easily he cast me aside but her decision can’t be made with all the facts at this moment. I’m totally not sure what to do.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, msoptimisticagain said:

Talk about there being so many wrongs to having an A - here’s the proof. So to get my proof which is tearing me up then I’ve also torn up her world because I am assuming she will probably think that what I told her is as good as cheating but yet she technically has nothing.

Also my thought - you have your answer but unfortunately you had to hurt an innocent woman to get it. 

There are many BS on this site who talk about the agony of knowing that something is wrong, but not knowing what exactly. They say that it is almost a relief when the truth is revealed - the truth, they can deal with that. The wondering and doubting your own instinct and better judgment (if he denies the truth) is far worse…

Of course, affairs are selfish in nature and you have caused this woman harm (whether she knew it or not) for many years. You have your answer now, but in so doing you have just added to the burden of a woman who has done nothing wrong… That is very sad. 

You don’t know what is happening in that home now. Perhaps, she knows the truth of her marriage and the man she married. Or, perhaps he has attempted to minimized continue to lie. There is an argument to be made to provide this woman her truth - in the absence of the truth, the imagination will run wild and that is its own torture. Perhaps, you begin to make amends by providing an apology and the truth?

Edited June 10, 2021 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

15 minutes ago, msoptimisticagain said:

 But if he had wormed his way out of it so easily why ghost me and then have to worm his way back in with me if that’s what he wanted?

His wife is no doubt keeping a close eye on him, so he would be in no position to contact you (assuming he wants to avoid even more "trouble at home" and/or a divorce). Even if he could, he may not wish to take the risk.

Also, assuming he's figured out it was you who did this, you betrayed his trust. That may seem ironic to some, but from his perspective that's what happened. Not telling the partner is one of the implicit agreements of an affair (otherwise, just pursue the EMR openly).

So yes, you've proven he won't ditch the marriage for you (at least not willingly). But after all, really that should have been fairly clear after 10 years of this.

Edited June 10, 2021 by mark clemson

[msoptimisticagain]

 BaileyB and Mark Clemson…You both have very valid arguments and I’m not sure what to do. I opened the door but I’m not sure what to do. The info I gave her was absolute truth even providing some details. It just wasn’t a complete truth. Nothing I told her was a lie. But if he worms his way out of that situation then she’s going to believe anything he tells her anyway. If I go back now and say oh by the way I left out the fact that we talked 6 days/week for 50-51 weeks/year for 10 years AND I was lying - it wasn’t just flirting, it was actually an A then he’s just gonna say some crazy ass woman who didn’t succeed the first time in getting him in trouble is just upping the game and changing her story? Don’t you think she has enough info to find her truths herself? My gosh, I can see why this leads to breakdowns. I have never felt this much unease and stress before. That “fog” that clouds all your judgment can destroy you.

[mark clemson]

There is more than one way to look at this, but I don't think there's a "right" answer here.

There's a wide variety of ways she could be reacting/adapting; and an equally wide variety of potential ways he could spin things should he wish to.

To me it seems like you got the "answer" you were seeking (if not perhaps the one you hoped for). You seem to be focusing on her/them, but (IMO) what you really need to be doing is learning to let go of all that and focus on getting your own head in order. Once that is done you can get your house in order in a way that aligns to where your head is at.

IMO after 10 years you have done enough. It's probably easier said than done, but I'd try to let them worry about them and you worry about you.

You seem to be leaning on ingrained habits of distracting yourself from your reality with thoughts of him, only now it's "them".

Edited June 10, 2021 by mark clemson

[Starswillshine]

17 minutes ago, msoptimisticagain said:

 BaileyB and Mark Clemson…You both have very valid arguments and I’m not sure what to do. I opened the door but I’m not sure what to do. The info I gave her was absolute truth even providing some details. It just wasn’t a complete truth. Nothing I told her was a lie. But if he worms his way out of that situation then she’s going to believe anything he tells her anyway. If I go back now and say oh by the way I left out the fact that we talked 6 days/week for 50-51 weeks/year for 10 years AND I was lying - it wasn’t just flirting, it was actually an A then he’s just gonna say some crazy ass woman who didn’t succeed the first time in getting him in trouble is just upping the game and changing her story? Don’t you think she has enough info to find her truths herself? My gosh, I can see why this leads to breakdowns. I have never felt this much unease and stress before. That “fog” that clouds all your judgment can destroy you.

I can only give you my experience....

I believe the OW tried to tell me, but I wouldn't answer any facebook messages from people I didn't know (prior to knowing there was an OW). I just saw a text message to him, and I didn't get a chance to read anything more. He minimized it to just some sexting/flirty texts and nothing more. I spent 18 months knowing that there was much more than that. His OW kept trying to give just enough information to keep the doubt alive but not enough that he would hate her for exposing it all. That 18 months was pure hell and crazy making. Because you want to believe that is all there is to it, but you just know there isn't. Things don't exactly add up. He won't cop to it; he is constantly promising and swearing on people's graves. And you think, this man I married would never say those things, even though we know nothing will truly happen to our kids, but you still just never swear on the lives' of your children, right? So you convince yourself that maybe that's all it is, but the nagging is still there... because the reactions aren't normal for just some sexting/flirty thing. I spent that time doing all the forensic tech investigating I could. I was surprised and creeped out by how much information you can get by that thing we all carry around in our back pockets or our bags. But still I got no real evidence that it was something more. (Unfortunately for me, during an argument when I found the text, the phone went "flying" and broke.... and he discarded the phone for a new one... how lucky of him...). Anyway, it nearly put me in the loonely bin. Sometimes, the researching gave me something more to focus on versus the pain I was feeling, but it became an obsessive thing. That even now, I struggle with in a new relationship. Thankfully my boyfriend understands and gives me full access to everything, and I always fight the urge to be "trust but verify" type person. I just wished that someone would have just gave me all the information from the beginning. This "I'll give you some hints and you can figure out the rest" is just torture and borderline abusive. While I know that isn't your intent at all, that is what is does to the BS. 

[heartwhole2]

We're complicated creatures with many competing emotions and interests. My concern here is that you are using the one innocent person in this equation -- the BW -- as a test to see if MM will ever really leave. Your first paragraph spoke a lot about finally deciding to be moral in this situation, but you contradict that pretty quickly by admitting that you've kept calling him and hoped he would choose you. You didn't tell BW for her sake; you did it for your own. And for that reason, as a BW, I would suggest that you immediately walk away. I don't think your head is on straight enough for you make any amends or be helpful to the BW in this situation, and so the moral thing to do is to leave them alone, for good this time.

I found your old username and posts, and you had so many threads about how this time was really the time you were walking away, this time you meant it. And yet here we are, eleventh verse same as the first. So you thought, OK, this time I will change something external -- the BW's role in the triangle -- and maybe that will finally change this situation. But I think you understand on some level that the only way this is going to work is if you change something internal. You're the only person in the triangle that you're actually responsible for and able to help. 

The closer we get to a situation that tempts us, the higher the chances we'll succumb. That's why alcoholics don't sit around in bars with drinks in front of them. Think of what you can do to make contacting MM harder. If you still have that second phone, get rid of it. Delete the app you used to text BW. 

Being addicted to an AP or social media or gambling etc. leave us in a state of constantly needing that next "hit." Read up on addiction. Learn to calm yourself. Don't replace this with another addiction -- learn how to meditate, how to garden, how to sit and do a crossword puzzle. Focus on just being present, on being still. 

[msoptimisticagain]

Mark Clemson. YES. I don’t even have the emotional stability to make decisions about my own path forward much less anyone else’s path. His W does deserve the truth and the whole truth but not from me at least not right now. I have wayyyyy too much work to do on me and the very best I can do for everyone is keep walking away.

[msoptimisticagain]

Starswillshine. Thank you for the POV. I do wish I could make things right with her but at this point nothing coming from me will look like anything other than me changing my story to spite him. I have no credibility where she is concerned. Especially if he has talked her down. I don’t have a legit stand on to help her or the stable place to do it from.

[Starswillshine]

1 minute ago, msoptimisticagain said:

Starswillshine. Thank you for the POV. I do wish I could make things right with her but at this point nothing coming from me will look like anything other than me changing my story to spite him. I have no credibility where she is concerned. Especially if he has talked her down. I don’t have a legit stand on to help her or the stable place to do it from.

Honestly, it is hard to believe an OW if they don't come right out and give all the information. And yeah, it will be easy for him to just call you crazy, obsessed, etc. So you are correct. 

[msoptimisticagain]

heartwhole2…Yep, I was and am a basket case. And yes, maybe I thought changing an external factor would change things. And I hope it has. I sure didn’t think through all the outcomes or I might have made a different decision. I did try to walk away many times only to be drawn back in. I think actually that I thought that maybe if I forced his hand and he made the decision to dump me that it would make it more final and take away me having to even make decisions. And in a way it did that because he has completely ghosted me which forces me to keep moving away. Every other time I lost the internal will to stay away and gave in. This time I don’t have to fight that battle in my head and heart. Decision is made. So yes, you are spot on as to why I walked away from this site. Never heard what I wanted to and was too stubborn to accept everyone’s truths that they shared.

[stillafool]

9 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

Or... he just doesn't care.

Or involved in his own affair more than likely.  

OP,  how did MM know it was you who set up the sting for his wife.  Did he just suspect and therefore ended it with you?

Since you are off this summer you can get another job for the summer to keep you busy.  There are plenty of them and it will be more productive than sitting around wondering what MM is doing.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by stillafool

[BaileyB]

48 minutes ago, msoptimisticagain said:

I do wish I could make things right with her but at this point nothing coming from me will look like anything other than me changing my story to spite him. I have no credibility where she is concerned. Especially if he has talked her down.

This is true. Unfortunately, it will be really easy for the two of them to dismiss you as a disgruntled affair partner/woman pursuing this MM. you do not have any credibility at this point. 

1 hour ago, heartwhole2 said:

My concern here is that you are using the one innocent person in this equation -- the BW -- as a test to see if MM will ever really leave.

This was what I was trying to say above. It was not a fair or kind thing to do to the woman (not saying that as a judgment OP, it’s just the sad reality of what has happened - when you look at it after the fact). 

[Poppy47]

10 hours ago, msoptimisticagain said:

Hi Poppy! I am so glad to hear from you! I remember reading and reading and searching for your posts when I was on here previously. At that time it seemed to me that our situations were similar? So I know you have answered these a bunch of times but specifically…1) how long was your A (I was thinking it was around 10 years)? 2) What was your breaking point? 3) Do you think it was an addiction like alcohol or drug addictions and if so why did we “addict” to a person who was unavailable? 4) Did you follow on social media or choose to just not know? A pic posted on their joint FB page is what set me in motion to find out once and for all where we stood. 5) If you have had a final break, how did you survive the first few weeks of NC? Did you have to relearn how to spend your days? 6) Have you come to understand your state of mind to stay in this toxic place for so long? 7) Have you got to a point where you see any positives and you no longer hurt as bad?

Sorry for all the questions but I always respected your opinions. Counseling is not an easy answer for me because of logistics and until I can work out something virtually I’m muddling through on my own! Thanks for responding.
 

Hi ,

I sent you a private message yesterday. Check it out.

Poppy.

[msoptimisticagain]

stillafool….I haven’t talked to MM. I don’t know if he disappeared because she used the info against him or because he suspects it was me who did it?

My thought is that she threatened him with leaving with the child and he will do whatever she says to not be a part time dad - that has always been his greatest fear. But he could be thinking that it’s me and I’m batshit crazy so he better stay far far away? 

[msoptimisticagain]

BaileyB…this is what happens when one makes a rash decision without consulting anyone to input some sense into the situation. I really didn’t think far enough ahead and I really did not set out to hurt her. I wasn’t looking beyond getting the answer I needed to force me to move…😔

[msoptimisticagain]

Poppy…I’m looking for it! Thank you! 

[BaileyB]

23 minutes ago, msoptimisticagain said:

BaileyB…this is what happens when one makes a rash decision without consulting anyone to input some sense into the situation. I really didn’t think far enough ahead and I really did not set out to hurt her. I wasn’t looking beyond getting the answer I needed to force me to move…😔

I know.  😔

[PhoenixRising8]

52 minutes ago, msoptimisticagain said:

I don’t know if he disappeared because she used the info against him or because he suspects it was me who did it?

I would say that if he wasn't messing around with anyone else, he has to know it was you.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

18 hours ago, msoptimisticagain said:

stillafool….I haven’t talked to MM. I don’t know if he disappeared because she used the info against him or because he suspects it was me who did it?

My thought is that she threatened him with leaving with the child and he will do whatever she says to not be a part time dad - that has always been his greatest fear. But he could be thinking that it’s me and I’m batshit crazy so he better stay far far away? 

I hope you can see how you are perpetuating this drama.  @heartwhole2 pretty much summed up my thoughts on your now involvement with his wife. 

Can you see that now here's rejected you, you are refusing to accept it by inserting yourself more directly into his wife's face? It's like you are delivering the message to him that if he thinks he is done with you that you are going to show him by bringing the mess between you right under his wife's nose to rub her nose in it. You are literally using his wife as a tool in your power struggle with him. 

His wife and kid are not your business, even less so now that he's shut the door. 

I mean you are waaaaaaaaaay out of line with this. JUST STOP YOURSELF ALREADY!  "I won't be ignored, Dan!" Fatal Attraction movie-style--that's what you are turning into.

What should you do?  Stop being a bunny boiler.  No more contact with him, his wife, his kid(s), or any of his people.  Focus on cleaning up your own side of the street: your life, your choices, your marriage, your family, your health, your future. 

[mark clemson]

20 hours ago, msoptimisticagain said:

His W does deserve the truth and the whole truth but not from me at least not right now.

There seem to be two schools of thought/personal ethics on this point. One is what you state above; the other view is that you have no business further inserting yourself into their marriage and/or causing additional problems/drama. Both views seem fairly common and of course people are entitled to whatever view they have. There are plenty of external observers who "mind their own business" when it comes to affairs, as well as some who don't.

What I've never understood from the "deserves to know" side, coming from the former OM/W, is why the rationale suddenly changes when the affair ends.

For 10 years while the affair was ongoing she didn't deserve to know. But now that it's over she does?

I'm not asking you to justify yourself, but to me this feel like some sort of effort to "reclaim moral high ground". The problem is, of course, that's it's moral high ground you never actually had, or at least not for the last 10 years since you were participating in the affair. In a very real way it feels like being dishonest with oneself. (And this would hold really for any AP I think.)

One view might be that you are trying to "recreate" a you that is more moral and/or "turn over a new leaf" as they say. That's fine, but I think it's a fair question whether BW is a sort of "sacrificial lamb" in the process. The "new and more moral you" comes at a cost of additional emotional distress to her. Possibly to her children as well, along with other costs, if her marriage ends.

So I guess there's the question of whether that actually IS more moral (as opposed to minding one's own business or at least avoiding further disruption to someone else's marriage).

I suppose that from the "deserves to know" perspective, one could say that, at long last, the BW got the "truth" she deserved. There is a LOT of pain and distress along with that truth presumably, but then again that could happen anyhow if she finds out some other way. So I guess there are two ways to look at that aspect too.

Overall I feel it's more honest to just acknowledge that "yes, my personal morals encompass willingness to have an affair, but I'm done with that now" rather than trying to take "noble action" (IF one can call it that) in order to seemingly restructure them, at the expense of giving someone else the pain and distress of a Dday. I think it's a fair question whether the restructuring of personal morals is actually impacting YOU at more than a surface level, and indeed if there's really a NEED to attempt to restructure one's own morals in this way. After all, just because your morals allow for petty theft, it doesn't mean you actually HAVE to go out shoplifting stuff.

Again I'm not asking you to justify yourself here, just pointing out some things for you to consider.

Edited June 11, 2021 by mark clemson

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

What should you do?  Stop being a bunny boiler.  No more contact with him, his wife, his kid(s), or any of his people.  Focus on cleaning up your own side of the street: your life, your choices, your marriage, your family, your health, your future. 

Wise words, as always. 

At this point OP, you can’t go back and change what has been done. But you can understand what you did it (not only from your perspective). And you need to understand why this was a very unfair thing to do to his wife. It is important to understand this so that you never hurt another individual in this way again. 

That said, the only thing you can do is exactly what HadMeOverABarreksaid, clean up your own side of the street. It sounds like you have only begun to do the work… Good luck! 

[Birdies]

On 6/9/2021 at 2:20 PM, Bittersweetie said:

Does your husband know about your affair?

I ask because there can be no comparison between your H and your AP. Your AP is secret, illicit, and you don't experience him through the eyes of real life like one does a husband. You see him through the rose colored glasses of an affair. Plus, if your H does not know, how can he compete with AP when he doesn't even know he is in a competition?

My A was not nearly as long as yours, and my H and I were not living in the same place at the time so I was able to separate the two very clearly. However once the A ended and I started spending more time with my H, I began to see how special he is, and how much I projected onto my AP what I wanted and needed at that time. I'm not sure you can clearly evaluate your relationship with your husband with your addiction to AP muddying the waters.

This is so true.  I have the unique experience of having an affair, and then actually marrying my AP.  I love my husband very much and we have a very happy marriage, but yeah, regular marriage just can't compare with the thrill of an affair.   Even with it's with *the same person*.