Why do some people get upset if I'm dating two women who I don't have a commitment with?

[Zebarbu]

I thought the whole purpose of dating is to get to know someone and have fun?

Some people I know know that I'm seeing two women. They tell me it's 'deceitful' and in some cases it could be 'cheating'??

I'd agree if I was exclusive with one of them and seeing another behind their back, but in my case I'm not.

[central]

Perhaps they're envious of you, perhaps they don't believe you that the women don't think you're exclusive, or perhaps they have a narrow-minded view of dating that disallows multi-dating.  Why do you care what they think, if you know you're acting appropriately?

[elaine567]

Is it deceitful?
Do these women know and are they happy to be part of a harem?

[central]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Is it deceitful?
Do these women know and are they happy to be part of a harem?

I think it's only deceitful if he's having sex with them, otherwise, it's just normal dating, IMO.

[Vitaminka]

Depends...It is not always black and white.

1. Have you slept with either one or both of them or you are just going out? If so, it might be fun for you but deceitful for them.

2. Are these women aware of each other? Did you tell both of them that you are dating other people? If not, it is deceitful.

3. Did you make any false promises or offers? If so, yes, it is deceitful.

In a nutshell, as long as you are totally honest with both parties about your intentions and the fact that you are dating/sleeping with other people and as long as they are fine with that, it is NOT considered deceitful.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Vitaminka

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, central said:

I think it's only deceitful if he's having sex with them, otherwise, it's just normal dating, IMO.

Not if both women are aware of it.  He won't say.

[Alpacalia]

Multi-dating is the beginning of every wonderful love story.

[dramafreezone]

9 hours ago, Zebarbu said:

I thought the whole purpose of dating is to get to know someone and have fun?

Some people I know know that I'm seeing two women. They tell me it's 'deceitful' and in some cases it could be 'cheating'??

I'd agree if I was exclusive with one of them and seeing another behind their back, but in my case I'm not.

Those are classic shaming tactics used on men, and women too actually.

Men that date multiple people are given the title of player, women are given many derogatory terms that I won't list here.

Why do you care what those people think?  As long as the women you're dating know what the deal is and you aren't lying to them, then who cares? 

You have to have a thick skin when it comes to dating these days.

Edited June 13, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Wiseman2]

Depends on who "some people" are. Her friends? Her father? 

[basil67]

I believe the whole purpose of dating is to meet someone who is looking for the same thing as you.

If you meet women who just want casual fun and are OK with sharing, then you're doing nothing wrong.   But if you're doing this with women who are open to a relationship if things are going well, then it's not a nice thing for you to be doing.  

What are these women looking for?   Are they OK with sharing?  There in lies your answer.

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by basil67

[MsJayne]

I agree with everyone else, if both women know about the other and are willing to tolerate being treated like an escort, fine. If not, it's outright deceitful and manipulative. Back when I was dating I would just immediately cease contact if I found that whoever I was seeing was still seeing or chasing other people. If you're not that into someone after a couple of dates that you want to focus on them and see what develops, why are you even wasting their time? If you state upfront the first time you meet that you're a multi-dater and they're OK with it, good, but I think you would find that most women would be insulted and tell you to take a hike, (unless their self-esteem is in the gutter). As recently as the 90's multi-dating was referred to as two-timing, and a person who did it was considered a bit of a scumbag. Today's dating culture is so crass and devoid of romance that it's no wonder so many people approach it with trepidation and caution. It reduces people to little more than Flavour Of The Minute. Those shows on TV, 'The Bachelor' and the like, just make me cringe. Have those women not got a shred of self respect, competing over some egotistical tool in a tux?  And that's the crux of this topic, are people OK with competing for a partner? Is it OK to send the mixed messages of dating someone while making them aware that they're not special to you, that they're easily disposable? No, it's not OK, it's actually very narcissistic and creepy even if you do tell people. Sorry for being honest. 

[basil67]

25 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

Back when I was dating I would just immediately cease contact if I found that whoever I was seeing was still seeing or chasing other people. 

And here's the complexity when giving advice - @MsJayne and I are both from the same culture and (I think) we're both Gen X.  So we're talking from the experience of our age group and culture.     Some people from cultures other than ours describe criticism of multi dating as "shaming tactics".  But to us, dating one at a time is culturally normal for those who are in our generation.   Just like @MsJayne, I'd immediately cease seeing a man who was multi dating and describe him using a few choice words.

So it really does all go back to finding out what the other is looking for and respecting that.  Also known as: COMMUNICATION. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by basil67

[Lotsgoingon]

 

This is one of those great ethical questions, the answer to which involves so many variables and specifics. Even the phrase "dating two women" needs to be spelled out. Dating could be anything from meeting them for coffee to having sex with each and spending the night with each.

How to judge what you're doing hinges on facts like those. Another key question: how many times have you seen each of the women? Another question: are these women savvy and confident or are they less socially savvy and not very good at facing the reality that you don't want to date them exclusively. 

Basil makes a fascinating point, though I think there is room for disagreement on this point. Some people say "we're dating casually" and what they really mean is "we're on the way to being serious." Others make no such assumption. Basil's point suggests that the person in your position has a ethical obligation to the first person (the one who thinks you're on the way to being serious) to tell them what you're doing. 

I say this: if you're not having sex with either, then fine. Further, let's say you were having protected sex with both of them--as long as they're on the same page as you, again fine. (The key here is that they are CLEARLY on the same page as you--as in they are out sleeping with other guys.)

Here's a question for you. Yes, you can spell out your goals and your commitment level and the other nods and seems to hear us and agree with us and yet their actions don't match their words or head nods.

So my question relates to Basil's point, and I ask you to be brutally honest here:

Is either one of the women acting like she has a serious attachment to you? As in does either one of them got that crushin' look in the eyes when they see you and spend time with you? Just use your gut. I don't care what each woman says. Is either acting like things are serious with you or going to get serious with you?

I've dated casually and suddenly looked up and noticed that the other person was feeling something greater than what we had talked about. I tap danced around this at the time. Nowadays, I'd only date casually when the other person and I are truly on the same page--in words and deeds. 

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Basil's point suggests that the person in your position has a ethical obligation to the first person (the one who thinks you're on the way to being serious) to tell them what you're doing. 

Or, if not this, then find out what they are looking for and think about whether your behaviour matches that.

 

[dramafreezone]

52 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Basil makes a fascinating point, though I think there is room for disagreement on this point. Some people say "we're dating casually" and what they really mean is "we're on the way to being serious." Others make no such assumption. Basil's point suggests that the person in your position has a ethical obligation to the first person (the one who thinks you're on the way to being serious) to tell them what you're doing. 

 

See, I don't think there is an obligation for me to say "hey, just so you know I don't want a relationship right now."  That's just weird to me.  If I were to be asked I'll tell the truth and then we can cross that bridge or not.

To me, everything is casual until it's not.  Relationships best evolve organically.  If a woman were to ask me what I'm looking for, I'd say it begins with finding someone that I vibe with, and then we can take it from there, step by step.  Nothing is off the table, including relationship.

I don't think a relationship is any more likely to succeed because you begin by stating that as a purpose.   Saying that I'm looking for a relationship is contrived in my opinion.  I'd love to see some research that says otherwise, that stating a goal of relationship results in longer lasting and more fulfillng unions.

I think there are very few people overall that are absolutely casual.  For the vast majority, regardless of what they say, I think they'll enter a relationship for the right man or woman.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Mrin]

I'm going to note that the OP isn't talking about the two women he's dating that are upset but rather a third parties such as friends or family I'm guessing. 

Multidating is a fairly new thing. Well no it's not a new thing it's been around for ages. But the public's acceptance of multidating is a new thing. For the longest time men who did that were players although they were more readily accepted. And women who did that were loose.  It's only been fairly recently that multi-dating is just a thing. 

Some people are just uncomfortable with it. We have monogamy beaten into us from day one by society. And multi-dating whether done ethically or not flies in the face of the monogamous story that we've all grown up with. And for some people that bugs them. 

[MsJayne]

1 hour ago, Mrin said:

I'm going to note that the OP isn't talking about the two women he's dating that are upset but rather a third parties such as friends or family I'm guessing. 

Yes, he's not asking how the women feel, but whether multi-dating is actually cheating and generally frowned upon. The answer is yes if the people he's seeing don't  know that he's also seeing other people, because he's not giving them the option of deciding whether they want to have any involvement with someone who doesn't see them as relationship material. To me the whole concept of multi-dating is a dubiously concocted social construct, a term invented to excuse what is essentially selfish and crass behaviour.  I acknowledge that I come from a generation where manners and consideration for others was more popular and people were less inclined towards self-absorption and openly hedonistic sexual attitudes.

1 hour ago, Mrin said:

We have monogamy beaten into us from day one by society.

I also don't think monogamy is as much to do with social conditioning as it is to do with coupling being a natural human state, in the same way many other higher order animals choose a partner for life, perhaps it's even a part of survival instinct. I try not to be judgmental about it, but I find today's free-and-easy attitudes towards sex to be a worrying sign of devolution of the human race, moral conduct and consideration for the feelings and emotions of others being an essential part of humanness. I've known way too many people, particularly women, who become jealous and insecure when confronted with what they perceive as sexual competition, so to me, the whole multi-dating thing has way too many holes in it. Like, if you're so disinterested in the redhead you took to dinner last night that you're already asking out the blonde who works behind the bar, why take the redhead on another date? Because even though you know she's not the girl for you you'd still like to bang her? That used to be called using someone, but now it's called multi-dating because that excuses the anti-social aspect of it. Of course, if she knows you're not interested in her for any other reason than sex and she still wants to hang out with you, great, you get NSA sex. But I've never known too many women, young or older, who truly think that way unless they're what we politely called a nympho in the olden days.  Most intelligent and self-respecting women simply do not like being treated as an unpaid sex worker  

[kendahke]

20 hours ago, Zebarbu said:

Some people I know know that I'm seeing two women. They tell me it's 'deceitful' and in some cases it could be 'cheating'??

They're stupid and they're wrong. They don't understand what dating is --those terms would apply if you were in a relationship. You're just dating. It's not deceitful if you're not in a committed relationship and if you refused to tell them that you don't want exclusivity with them. 

No one is owed devotion just because they have interest or hope after two dates. It's too soon to have figured out if you even like being in the same room with them, let alone wax monogamous on them as if you never had a life before they sprang up on the scene. Completely unreasonable and immature viewpoint.

Edited June 14, 2021 by kendahke

[Wiseman2]

Why are you bragging to these people about it?

Keep your sex life to yourself and no one will armchair quarterback you.

[Blind-Sided]

19 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Do these women know and are they happy to be part of a harem?

1) Irrelevant.

2) unless they live together, and he choses one for the night... then it's not a "Harem". 

People multi date.  It's not a big deal.  If you have people in your life who don't like it... then just don't talk about it to them.   NOW... if this has been going on for months, then you could be leading them on.  If I was to date someone for more than a month or two... depending on how many times we get to see each other in a week... I would start to want a relationship. OR... to be breaking up because it isn't want I want.

Now... I'm not the kind of person who will multi date.  To me... it's too much effort, and people get hurt.  Not to mention, I'm looking for a partner, and not just a good time.  I have friends for that. 

Anyway... just consider the girls feelings, and don't do anything to lead them to believe it's anything other than "Dating" and it's "Nothing serious and non-committed".  Because... if you do lead them on... then yes... that makes you the bad person.

[Alpacalia]

Multi-dating can become messy and I think does require a hide a bit like a rhinos'.

As with most things, problems arise when you aren't on the same page with comparable primary values and you aren't in sync.

Also, when you're both multi-dating, are you interested because you're actually interested or because you want to 'win' this person over?

In any event, the decision to multi-date is a personal one, as is the decision not to multi-date and/or opt out.

[Fletch Lives]

Multi-dating is acceptable. I'd do it, but I don't have enough braincells left, I'd end up mixing up their names, lol

[dramafreezone]

6 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

Now... I'm not the kind of person who will multi date.  To me... it's too much effort, and people get hurt.  Not to mention, I'm looking for a partner, and not just a good time.  I have friends for that. 

 

Same here actually.  I have never and probably would never date more than two women at a time.  That could get really expensive and I can't imagine holding interest for three or more  women, not to mention the time committment.  One line from a movie that's always stuck with me is "how many women do you have to have sex with until you realize you can get laid?"  That's a bit paraphrased, but maybe that's just a defense mechanism and I've adjusted to what I can demand on the dating market.

That said, I defend other people's right to date as many people as they can it as long as they're not lying to anyone.

[Mrin]

4 hours ago, Fletch Lives said:

Multi-dating is acceptable. I'd do it, but I don't have enough braincells left, I'd end up mixing up their names, lol

That's what "babe", "kitten" or "love" are for. Omg I just said that out loud.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Mrin

[dramafreezone]

8 hours ago, Alpaca said:

Also, when you're both multi-dating, are you interested because you're actually interested or because you want to 'win' this person over?

 

There's almost always some element of that, wanting to "win" the person over.  If it wasn't, would we care so much about the opinions of others regarding the people we date?   The more social proof this dating prospect has, the more coveted they are, and the greater sense of accomplishment if we "get" them.

Some take it much further than others, to where their entire existence is about winning again and again, chasing that validation, and that translates into how many conquests they can rack up.  You don't need to look any further than those that date for the chase or the "challenge."  They don't realize that it's never enough.

I think the notion of wanting to win is woven into pretty much every walk of life in some way.

Edited June 14, 2021 by dramafreezone