**hurting, broken and lost - how to move on?**

[ExpatInItaly]

37 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I would have found this kind of texting from a man concerning. And suffocating.

Same here. 

This dude was playing make-believe in his own head. 

[BiancaSW]

40 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

In hindsight, this was a huge red flag. 

Do you not see - it’s all fantasy. “In our future fantasy relationship, I’m going to do the following…” I texted a lot with my partner when we were apart - we talked about what we were doing, we made plans to see each other…” Neither of us ever said, “When we move in together, I’m looking forward to watching you brush your teeth and I’m going to stand over your bed and watch you sleep.” 

I would have found this kind of texting from a man concerning. And suffocating. 

I don’t think you answered my question above - have you ever had a man text you or talk with you this way before? 

No Bailey, my previous partners were different people and expressed themselves in different ways. I thought because he needs time to decide what to do with his life - he is expressing himself this way to compensate for not physically being with me. Not once I thought he has no feelings for me.

we were discussing these things face to face as well a lot - house we want, we would talk a lot about finance and mortgages. he was saying about what kitchen he wants and re-converting the garage. He knew I love to live by the water, but asked if I would agree to live closer to his children - like 30 mins away, so he can be close to them. It did not look like a fantasy - more like a serious move - especially how it was affecting his physical health.... I would have never, never for a minute thought he would treat me so badly at the end. When he spoke to me last time on the phone with his wife listening - it did not even sound like him, he was stumbling, missing words, going high pitch... i was so so shocked, I got a lump in my throat and had tears running down while listening to all that horror he was saying.

Edited June 19, 2021 by BiancaSW

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, BiancaSW said:

not sure why everyone says they are creepy 🤔 

Yes - what @elaine567 said above.

I'm not one to judge (although that probably came across that way). It sounds like it may be a form of what's called age-play in BDSM circles. What feels sweet, in context and to the participants, seems a bit pedo-ish from the outside looking it. But if you enjoy it, you enjoy it, I doubt your MM is a pedophile but he probably sensed that you liked this sort of thing and continued it, so no harm done (in that particular aspect of things).

MANY BDSM practices things seem "creepy" to those who are not into them. C'est la vie. For myself, I would not be texting things like that to a partner, but that's me. Different folks enjoy different things. And there are those who enjoy "handing their power" to another person and even see it as more or less essential in a relationship. This can show up in various ways and specific activities they do together.

Edited June 19, 2021 by mark clemson

[BiancaSW]

7 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Yes - what @elaine567 said above.

I'm not one to judge (although that probably came across that way). It sounds like it may be a form of what's called age-play in BDSM circles. What feels sweet, in context and to the participants, seems a bit pedo-ish from the outside looking it. But if you enjoy it, you enjoy it, I doubt your MM is a pedophile but he probably sensed that you liked this sort of thing and continued it, so no harm done (in that particular aspect of things).

MANY BDSM practices things seem "creepy" to those who are not into them. C'est la vie. For myself, I would not be texting things like that to a partner, but that's me. Different folks enjoy different things.

I wasn’t asking about texts - I meant how would you as a guy (or may be you have examples of male friends) behave in the situation he found himself caught in? it’s obviously inconsequential as everyone is different, but I’m just curious of what men think of things like that

[BiancaSW]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

Does your family live close to you Bianca?

not at the moment, no. he knew I would be completely on my own in this situation.

[anika99]

26 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

ahaha I don’t think these are sappy btw! 😸 just nice and loving! if you have feelings for that person - you naturally want to share how you feel! 

For me it was other way round - I always felt he was more affectionate than me, more sensitive, more attached... meh.

That’s an example of him (not me) saying stuff : “I love feeling you on your tip toes to wrap your arms round me. I can imagine doing your washing, hiding and then scaring you by jumping out, you shouting at me with an angry voice...Kissing your belly a lot...Watching you brush your teeth... Reading to one another”  - there are millions of texts like that from him.  I would respond in similar fashion, I honestly thought we care for one another and we just happened to meet that one special once-in-a-lifetime person... 

Agree with the poster who said this all sounds like a couple of kids living in a fantasy world. The problem is that while he knew it was all fantasy you thought it was real life. Real life in a real relationship isn't all mushy and lovey dovey. Real life relationships are 3 dimensional experiences that include a lot more than whatever you had going with this guy. People in real life relationships run their household together, they eat and sleep together, they argue, sometimes they find each other boring or annoying. When you've lived with someone watching them brush their teeth gets old pretty fast, lol. especially if they make a mess or squeeze the toothpaste tube wrong. They make real life decisions regarding their future lives together. You two remind me of a couple of kids talking about what they would buy and where they would go if they magically won 10 million dollars, except even most kids know that's not likely to happen so they continue to go about the mundane tasks of going to school, getting a job and working for their money. 

it's possible that his wife really was/is a controlling b****, but I'll let you in on a little secret. Most men who have controlling wives, secretly like it that way. An older guy I used to work with was always acting like a poor mistreated helpless victim when it came to his wife and how she treated him. She was most likely a controlling woman as one of her adult children also worked with us and collaborated everything her husband said about her. She wasn't abusive but she did like to run the show and make the decisions. Well one day she had a stroke and dropped dead and guess who completely fell apart? Yeah her husband who always acted like she was making his life miserable. Obviously there was the normal grief one feels when they  lose someone close to them but it also soon became apparent that he just didn't know how to live without her. The next few years were terrible for him. He tried to commit suicide, he got taken advantage of by a young couple who let move into his house, and eventually he ended up being hospitalized for a couple of months because of his poor mental health. Eventually he got on his feet again and started dating new women and when he remarried he picked a woman who was very similar to his deceased wife in personality. Also a strong controlling woman, because that was just his thing. He liked having a woman who would take charge. I think it just gave him a sense of security and a sense of well being to have a woman making most of his personal decisions. I haven't seen him in years but wherever he is I have no doubt that he's complaining about his 2nd wife being a controlling b**** and I bet he's as happy as a pig in the mud because of her.

[BiancaSW]

1 minute ago, anika99 said:

Agree with the poster who said this all sounds like a couple of kids living in a fantasy world. The problem is that while he knew it was all fantasy you thought it was real life. Real life in a real relationship isn't all mushy and lovey dovey. Real life relationships are 3 dimensional experiences that include a lot more than whatever you had going with this guy. People in real life relationships run their household together, they eat and sleep together, they argue, sometimes they find each other boring or annoying. When you've lived with someone watching them brush their teeth gets old pretty fast, lol. especially if they make a mess or squeeze the toothpaste tube wrong. They make real life decisions regarding their future lives together. You two remind me of a couple of kids talking about what they would buy and where they would go if they magically won 10 million dollars, except even most kids know that's not likely to happen so they continue to go about the mundane tasks of going to school, getting a job and working for their money. 

it's possible that his wife really was/is a controlling b****, but I'll let you in on a little secret. Most men who have controlling wives, secretly like it that way. An older guy I used to work with was always acting like a poor mistreated helpless victim when it came to his wife and how she treated him. She was most likely a controlling woman as one of her adult children also worked with us and collaborated everything her husband said about her. She wasn't abusive but she did like to run the show and make the decisions. Well one day she had a stroke and dropped dead and guess who completely fell apart? Yeah her husband who always acted like she was making his life miserable. Obviously there was the normal grief one feels when they  lose someone close to them but it also soon became apparent that he just didn't know how to live without her. The next few years were terrible for him. He tried to commit suicide, he got taken advantage of by a young couple who let move into his house, and eventually he ended up being hospitalized for a couple of months because of his poor mental health. Eventually he got on his feet again and started dating new women and when he remarried he picked a woman who was very similar to his deceased wife in personality. Also a strong controlling woman, because that was just his thing. He liked having a woman who would take charge. I think it just gave him a sense of security and a sense of well being to have a woman making most of his personal decisions. I haven't seen him in years but wherever he is I have no doubt that he's complaining about his 2nd wife being a controlling b**** and I bet he's as happy as a pig in the mud because of her.

thank you Anika, that’s a very interesting perspective on things. I don’t honestly know what their family dynamics was. I just know he was the one running the house - and making decisions about children. I never ever asked him about his wife.

i know the facts that he was the first and only contact for children in case of emergency. I know he was not keen on planning things like holidays and stuff, or what gifts to get for what relative or what furniture to buy, but all the basic core decisions were his. He said when he was coming from night shifts - the house was a complete mess he had to clean up and manage. When kids got sick it was him making the decisions. That’s all I know. But also, now reading what ppl have said above - I don’t know whether they had this  mummy- naughty boy type of relationship, something I could not offer him since all I wanted for us to be happy and supporting one another 

He said he enjoys that I am quiet and shy, and kind and nice to him. He said he wants things between us to be equal and us managing and running household in a equal manner. He said he wants to do things for me, but also, He would hug me and I could hear his heart beating faster. When he had arguments at work with seniors re standing up for his team - we would always talk about it, talk it through until he feels better... He said he likes how rational I am and that’s what he wants and needs (lies).

[BaileyB]

32 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

I thought because he needs time to decide what to do with his life - he is expressing himself this way to compensate for not physically being with me.

There you go - justifying and making excuses for behavior that otherwise should have been a huge red flag. Poor man, caught between a rock and a hard place so this is what he does for comfort while he decides which woman he wants in his life…

34 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

we were discussing these things face to face as well a lot - house we want, we would talk a lot about finance and mortgages. he was saying about what kitchen he wants and re-converting the garage. He knew I love to live by the water, but asked if I would agree to live closer to his children - like 30 mins away, so he can be close to them. It did not look like a fantasy - more like a serious move -

All well and good, I had similar discussions with my partner before we moved in together, the big difference being, my partner was single and available to purchase a home with me. Your MM was obviously already committed to a mortgage with another woman. And as such, this was discussion about a serious move - until he filed those divorce papers and settled his finances with his ex-wife, these were just empty promises… pure fantasy. 

36 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

I would have never, never for a minute thought he would treat me so badly at the end.

You should have had some idea, as you saw exactly how disrespectful he was being to his wife. He was building a secret, fantasy future with another woman while still married and living with his wife. 

[BiancaSW]

but then he would always complain - I can’t scratch my a*** with his kids, I have no time and his work colleagues knew the situation and were feeling really sorry for him. And I was always wondering - why is it the men I know who have twice more kids and a working wife manage well - they still go out with pals, they still enjoy themselves... then I thought - may be his life schedule rotates solely around his wife and he needs and wants....And was just an escape from the reality. Sick. The only thing he ever said is she would petrified to lose the house and be a single middle-aged mother with two kids, that’s why she would kill to keep him - very understandable. When I asked him what he wants - he just said I want to be happy and that’s the chance in life if I won’t take it with you - I will regret it in 5, 10 and 20 years time, because until now I haven’t realised life could be so different

A day before his wife read our msgs - he was asking me who would do shopping and who will look after kids, saying he hates shops but he would rather do it himself then make me. Why to say same things a year down the line... what was the agenda

[BaileyB]

20 minutes ago, anika99 said:

When you've lived with someone watching them brush their teeth gets old pretty fast, lol. especially if they make a mess or squeeze the toothpaste tube wrong.

Lol. Absolutely. 

21 minutes ago, anika99 said:

I'll let you in on a little secret. Most men who have controlling wives, secretly like it that way.

Very true. There are also men who like their wives to take control, to make decisions, to tell them where they are supposed to be and when they are supposed to be there. These men don’t deal with real life in their marriages. They avoid conflict and many will chose to escape into the world of sports or their man-cave in the garage. If they chose to engage in an affair, they certainly aren’t going to change their character and be something they are not in their marriage. They are going to continue to avoid reality, by escaping into a different kind of fantasy. 

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

i know the facts that he was the first and only contact for children in case of emergency.

I don’t know a mother alive who would have not been involved in her children’s lives in this way. Bianca, you really need to stop believing everything this liar says. This can not possibly be true. 

[BiancaSW]

7 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

There you go - justifying and making excuses for behavior that otherwise should have been a huge red flag. Poor man, caught between a rock and a hard place so this is what he does for comfort while he decides which woman he wants in his life…

All well and good, I had similar discussions with my partner before we moved in together, the big difference being, my partner was single and available to purchase a home with me. Your MM was obviously already committed to a mortgage with another woman. And as such, this was discussion about a serious move - until he filed those divorce papers and settled his finances with his ex-wife, these were just empty promises… pure fantasy. 

You should have had some idea, as you saw exactly how disrespectful he was being to his wife. He was building a secret, fantasy future with another woman while still married and living with his wife. 

Well we agreed to rent and then as my salary is higher than his - I said I can apply for the mortgage as I need a place where to live anyway and then he can figure out how to help me out with the mortgage. When my mum got worried about the finance - he said he will walk away with some money after his house is sold so she should not worry. I then said I don’t want his kids to be disadvantaged by them moving the house and we thought may be we can think of sumthin else. Start with renting and go up the house market. My salary would always be going up as more I work higher it gets - he asked if that’s an issue and if I would share the finance, like it would not be separate - I agreed to that.

aye, no surprise there now - but what surprises me is how he twisted the narrative to suit himself and both him and his wife believed that to be true. 

[BiancaSW]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

I don’t know a mother alive who would have not been involved in her children’s lives in this way. Bianca, you really need to stop believing everything this liar says. This can not possibly be true. 

that’s true - his colleagues of many many years knew that as it was directly affecting their work too. They said when one or the other kid gets sick he is the only one who leaves work and takes day off to look after the kids. His wife has less demanding job, but she never did that. I witnessed when his wee boy fell and hit his head being with his wife while MM was elsewhere - he drove all the way where his wife was (in a cafe), took the boy and drove him to hospital - he would send me pictures to make sure I don’t think he is ignoring me by not texting for some time

[BaileyB]

Regardless of how they chose to parent their children, it doesn’t change the fact that he chose to stay in his marriage. The rest is rather inconsequential at this point…

[RebeccaR]

44 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

A day before his wife read our msgs - he was asking me who would do shopping and who will look after kids, saying he hates shops but he would rather do it himself then make me

Hahahahaha. This is hilarious 

This alone should have tipped you off that it was all just a fantasy on his part

[RebeccaR]

54 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

He would hug me and I could hear his heart beating faster.

Maybe he was merely physically aroused, rather than heaving with great emotion?

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, BiancaSW said:

I meant how would you as a guy (or may be you have examples of male friends) behave in the situation he found himself caught in? it’s obviously inconsequential as everyone is different, but I’m just curious of what men think of things like that

Hmmm.  I'm not sure merely being a guy qualifies me to answer that actually. I've never been in a situation where I convinced a woman I was going to leave my wife and then got her pregnant and she wanted to keep the baby. And men are certainly not all the same, just as women are not.

For me personally, I suppose if somehow I had gotten into a situation THIS bad, there comes a time to "own the mess" and clean it up. I'm not sure exactly what that would entail, but I suppose I would try to be a dad to the kid or, if my wife somewhat understandably had a huge problem with that, then either fulfill at least my legal obligations OR possibly sign away my rights to the kid.

This is all very hypothetical though. Again, all men are different so there is not a standard "right" response, although trying to pretend the child doesn't exist certainly isn't a particularly good or kind one IMO.

[Snakesalive]

1 hour ago, BiancaSW said:

nderstandable. When I asked him what he wants - he just said I want to be happy and that’s the chance in life if I won’t take it with you - I will regret it in 5, 10 and 20 years tim

Wow that’s pretty much to the letter what my ex mm said to me 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, BiancaSW said:

we were...

This is the key. It's over and now you are at war with his wife. Sorry it turned out bad.

[BiancaSW]

50 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is the key. It's over and now you are at war with his wife. Sorry it turned out bad.

yes it is a real shame he could not deal with the situation like a man. it was all up to him - to tell the honest thing to his wife or to become an ally with his wife against me - I factually never did anything bad to him, never betrayed him in any way. I warned him against telling her lies as it would backfire on me.

I understand if I exposed him to his wife - yeah, things might have been different. but I didn’t even want to talk to her when she called - not because I was scared, but because I did not know what he told her and did not want situation to get worse for him. and was hoping he will contact me and explain. Before he went into the house for a talk - he said don’t tell her anything babe, let me deal with that and I will let you know. 2 hours later I’m blocked.... next day she knew (from him) which department I work in and demanded from my secretaries to talk to me giving them a false identity.

Edited June 19, 2021 by BiancaSW

[BaileyB]

You need to accept Bianca that this was never going to end differently. If you want to have an honest and legitimate relationship with a man and you want to avoid this kind of drama in your life, you need to date a man who does not have already have a wife. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, BiancaSW said:

next day she knew (from him) which department I work in and demanded from my secretaries to talk to me giving them a false identity.

You dodged a bullet. They both sound nuts. At some point, as things heal up/clear up, you'll see that he wove a sort of fantasy based on emotions, not facts. 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, BiancaSW said:

yes it is a real shame he could not deal with the situation like a man. it was all up to him - to tell the honest thing to his wife

That's just it.  No one knows his honest feelings.  The things he told you sounded honest to you but as you can see they were just lies.

[BiancaSW]

29 minutes ago, stillafool said:

That's just it.  No one knows his honest feelings.  The things he told you sounded honest to you but as you can see they were just lies.

sadly for me yes. wish he could face the reality and deal with it without throwing other ppl under the bus

shame that forward guy who takes no s*** and stands up for everyone and is so respected for it (that’s also what attracted me to him) could not stand up for his own actions and creations, let alone for me...

also, if you have no feelings for a person why would you be in contact with them 24/7 and planning (even an illusional) future together..he was absolutely obsessed with me.

Edited June 19, 2021 by BiancaSW

[BiancaSW]

he also went as far as telling his wife (who conveyed it to my family member) that I am a w**** who kept luring her innocent husband into my sexual activities by sending him inappropriate pictures and videos. I felt truly sick - I have a year-worth of pictures HE sent me with HIS anatomical details from all possible and impossible angles and he was begging for the whole year for us to make home videos and for me to send him my videos (never done that). Why to tell things which can never be proved and which are blatant lies?? That was super mega hurtful

Edited June 19, 2021 by BiancaSW