**hurting, broken and lost - how to move on?**

[ExpatInItaly]

54 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

Had I shown him my strong side may be things would turn out differently.

But what would you be left with, really?

A man who has no respect for his partner, whose moral compass disappeared a long time ago, a man you know will lie and cheat, a man who does not value loyalty or honesty. Wow. What a catch. 

The chances that this would have been your Happily Ever After even if he'd left her are very, very slim. He is terrible relationship material and you would be foolish to believe that would not affect your hypothetical future with him. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by ExpatInItaly

[Starswillshine]

1 minute ago, BiancaSW said:

he cudve told her anything he wanted. but calling me and humiliating me with her listening to the conversation? why to do that? To solidify his marriage? he knew how it would make me feel hearing that he never had feelings for me - he knew it would break me. why to do that? could he just not tell that to his wife? 

to our common friend (his ex colleague) he said that him and I are both responsible for what happened and he had feelings for me but situation is such that his wife found out and he promised her to never speak to me. Called me with her on the phone same day to humiliate me after telling that to the colleague.

Because right now he is trying to save his marriage at all costs. Your feelings do not matter sadly. 

[BiancaSW]

9 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

You think his wife is an ogre. I guess if you actually met her she would be no ogre.
He makes her into an ogre to get you to feel sorry for him and it makes you feel closer to him.
You can also dismiss her as being a horrible person and no threat to you...
You may find she has become the way she is because of the way he treats her, has treated her...
Living with guys who are cheating is not easy, whether she knows if he is cheating or not.

well I know people who knew him for a while and they said he is completely under her thumb. I never asked him about her as that’s smth I felt I had no right to pry over. 

He just said she is hysterical. and every time he did something wrong she would shout and swear in front of kids and they would cry. 

I sadly needed to get a lawyers order to stop her from harassing me as it went too far. I was waiting out when things will die down, but they did not. She would hit me where it hurts the most - I have a disability and she subscribed me for services for disabled and made companies to call me. it was horrendous. I still don’t understand why he would tell her these things about me. he also told her my home address so she made sure she ordered me wheelchair catalogues. it was awful - to describe what happened I need a whole new thread on this website. 

[ExpatInItaly]

3 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

I still don’t understand why he would tell her these things about me.

I am sorry she is weaponizing your challenges this way, OP. 

He probably told her because she demanded to know details about you, and since he doesn't actually want his marriage to end, he spilled anything and everything about you. I doubt even he imagined she would take it that far, but he evidently had no problem giving her whatever information she asked for. 

[Starswillshine]

6 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

well I know people who knew him for a while and they said he is completely under her thumb. I never asked him about her as that’s smth I felt I had no right to pry over. 

He just said she is hysterical. and every time he did something wrong she would shout and swear in front of kids and they would cry. 

I sadly needed to get a lawyers order to stop her from harassing me as it went too far. I was waiting out when things will die down, but they did not. She would hit me where it hurts the most - I have a disability and she subscribed me for services for disabled and made companies to call me. it was horrendous. I still don’t understand why he would tell her these things about me. he also told her my home address so she made sure she ordered me wheelchair catalogues. it was awful - to describe what happened I need a whole new thread on this website. 

That's pretty disgusting behavior. Hurt people hurt people. It is something I have to remember as I deal with the exact opposite situation. The OW does this to me. So I understand this fully. Though it has slacked a lot in the last year, she was after me non-stop. Long after I divorced my ex-husband. I am really sorry you are having to deal with this. Ugh. 

[BiancaSW]

2 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I am sorry she is weaponizing your challenges this way, OP. 

He probably told her because she demanded to know details about you, and since he doesn't actually want his marriage to end, he spilled anything and everything about you. I doubt even he imagined she would take it that far, but he evidently had no problem giving her whatever information she asked for. 

I doubt he doesn’t know what she is doing. She made her young kids to call me on video call once and they brought the phone to him. I saw his face on the video and he just hung up. all that day the forms were filled in my name for various services such as alcoholic addicts, mental health services. she also knew my work hours and made sure these services contacted me during that time so my colleagues were aware.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, BiancaSW said:

I was in a more senior position then him and he was always making me uncomfortable

Report him for sexual harassment. Especially before he or his wife report you since you are his superior and you chased him.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Wiseman2

[BiancaSW]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Report him for sexual harassment. Especially before he or his wife report you since you are his superior and you chased him.

I never chased him. no one chased anyone. everything was mutual. just a normal man and woman relationship. no one can report anyone as there was no sexual harassment and no evidence of such.

[Wiseman2]

Just now, BiancaSW said:

just a normal man and woman relationship. 

How is a relationship with a married man "normal" and how is his wife harassing you "normal" and how is chronic lying and cheating "normal".?

Maybe it's time to reset your man-meter as to what "normal" is?

[ExpatInItaly]

32 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

I doubt he doesn’t know what she is doing.

I didn't say he he doesn't know. 

I said he probably didn't expect her to take it this far. But she has, and he evidently isn't doing much to stop it. 

[BiancaSW]

11 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I didn't say he he doesn't know. 

I said he probably didn't expect her to take it this far. But she has, and he evidently isn't doing much to stop it. 

i agree. he knew well enough what she was doing but did not stop it.

tbh I wish when she was calling me at the beginning when the whole thing unwrapped - I could meet her and tell her what is going on and let her make her own conclusions re their marriage and how things really stand. he was already out of the equation by then. and should have only been between her and him. not between her and I and him being a silent watcher and a “victim”.

i have so many messages on my phone with him telling me things, talking about his feelings for me, asking me how I would help him with kids and where we would get a house. she doesn’t know any of that. he was deleting our conversations on a daily basis. so he can tell her anything and make me an enemy who was “chasing him”. 

I would also show her messages stating he had affairs on her before me with some of the work colleagues.

As I said - I am not proud of myself and I am responsible for what happened. But there are always two sides of the story. I was advised at the beginning not to tell her anything, but now I am thinking I should have done it as I have all the evidence. 

[Starswillshine]

2 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

i agree. he knew well enough what she was doing but did not stop it.

tbh I wish when she was calling me at the beginning when the whole thing unwrapped - I could meet her and tell her what is going on and let her make her own conclusions re their marriage and how things really stand. he was already out of the equation by then. and should have only been between her and him. not between her and I and him being a silent watcher and a “victim”.

i have so many messages on my phone with him telling me things, talking about his feelings for me, asking me how I would help him with kids and where we would get a house. she doesn’t know any of that. he was deleting our conversations on a daily basis. so he can tell her anything and make me an enemy who was “chasing him”. 

I would also show her messages stating he had affairs on her before me with some of the work colleagues.

As I said - I am not proud of myself and I am responsible for what happened. But there are always two sides of the story. I was advised at the beginning not to tell her anything, but now I am thinking I should have done it as I have all the evidence. 

I can understand wanting to stay away from that drama. But you are right, it may have forced her to see the truth and put her anger where it truly belongs. But maybe not. You never know. It is possible it could have ended violently (meeting face to face). And if he is convincing her of all these things, it is likely he will try to come up with something like, "You know there is all this software that she can just make up these texts and text herself from my number."  

[BiancaSW]

6 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

I can understand wanting to stay away from that drama. But you are right, it may have forced her to see the truth and put her anger where it truly belongs. But maybe not. You never know. It is possible it could have ended violently (meeting face to face). And if he is convincing her of all these things, it is likely he will try to come up with something like, "You know there is all this software that she can just make up these texts and text herself from my number."  

yes! tbh it started with her texting me and calling me names and stating I should stay away from her husband and her family. I was like it sounds like what he told her is that I am the one throwing myself at him. I got very upset. My friends suggested the best way would be to not engage in any contact with her and if she asks me things to say I don’t know anything. 

She then called me repeatedly and I every time she did I was tempted to pick and arrange a meeting.

as you have rightly said - it would be my story against his. they have been together for 20 years so he would know what buttons to push. I was a very lateral person to the situation.

i was scared to meet her in person as I was worried about physical harassment, you read stories online where wives find things out and throw acid at OW, etc etc.

The other thing is - he could always say I made conversations up / he was drunk / I photoshopped stuff... it could be endless excuses. And I would be even more to blame at the end. I still do not know what the right mode of action would be in these particular circumstances

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, BiancaSW said:

I got a picture the other day sent by a friend, him and his wife are happily smiling all dressed up with their kids. He seems to be enjoying himself like nothing ever happened.

 

4 hours ago, BiancaSW said:

It was always him leaving work to tend to them, he cooks, cleans, washes them - wakes up at night when children are crying. He said he is the only one doing it at home.

So, which is it? Is she a miserable woman who makes him do all the work and threatens him with divorce and restricting access to their children? Or, are they a happy family - completely in love and building a better future together? 

One thing is clear in your posts - you rather naively believe everything he says and the outward appearance that you see. Is she an frightening ogre - possibly, she has certainly crossed a boundary with her behavior toward you. But, is it really as bad and he told you - probably not.

As to the picture of the happy family I will say this, when my friend cheated on her husband and asked for a divorce, he posted pictures on Facebook of happy times together as a family and different things he did with his kids… to anyone who didn’t know what was really happening in that home, they would have looked like a very happy family. 

Kindly, there is fantasy and then there is reality. You need to rely less on what other people tell you and the image that people want to project, as this is easily distorted to support the fantasy you want to believe. 

[BaileyB]

27 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

I wish when she was calling me at the beginning when the whole thing unwrapped - I could meet her and tell her what is going on and let her make her own conclusions re their marriage and how things really stand.

She doesn’t really want to know where things stand though. She’s not interested in hearing your information. She doesn’t have to look at this rationally - in much the same way that you believed every bad thing you heard about her, she wants to believe the same about you. 

Quote

But there are always two sides of the story. I was advised at the beginning not to tell her anything, but now I am thinking I should have done it as I have all the evidence. 

Again, she hasn’t asked to hear your side of the story. Sharing this information will only escalate things in a way that you don’t want them to escalate. It’s like pouring gasoline on a fire. 

Best to leave them be. This is between them. While her anger is understandable, her behavior is not acceptable. If she continues to harass you, you could consider a protection order. 

Quote

he had affairs on her before me with some of the work colleagues.

For future reference, this was your first sign not to trust this man. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

Well, yes, if you were going to offer her tangible evidence, that time has passed. 

What happens now in their marriage is their problem now. You don't know what she knows and doesn't know. You don't know how much of this she's already got her hands on. There are tons of ways to retrieve deleted messages from one's phone, if she were so inclined (just for example)

But regardless, you will slowly detach from this mess. You will slowly realize that this fantasy life was just that - a fantasy. You didn't know it at the time, but it wasn't ever going to happen. 

 

[BiancaSW]

16 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

 

So, which is it? Is she a miserable woman who makes him do all the work and threatens him with divorce and restricting access to their children? Or, are they a happy family - completely in love and building a better future together? 

One thing is clear in your posts - you rather naively believe everything he says and the outward appearance that you see. Is she an frightening ogre - possibly, she has certainly crossed a boundary with her behavior toward you. But, is it really as bad and he told you - probably not.

As to the picture of the happy family I will say this, when my friend cheated on her husband and asked for a divorce, he posted pictures on Facebook of happy times together as a family and different things he did with his kids… to anyone who didn’t know what was really happening in that home, they would have looked like a very happy family. 

Kindly, there is fantasy and then there is reality. You need to rely less on what other people tell you and the image that people want to project, as this is easily distorted to support the fantasy you want to believe. 

well I am not sure to be honest. If he was a happy family man he would not be willing to build a relationship with someone else and not asking a new person to be a part of his life. I never looked at any other guy while being with him, it felt strange to even be physical with someone else...

as for the pictures - they are very much recent, showing the happy family. I don’t know what is going on there but he certainly does not look like a victim. He is very much enjoying himself by the looks of things. As for what happens behind the closed doors - who knows...

Edited June 14, 2021 by BiancaSW
grammar

[Starswillshine]

Since she read the text while he was at work, she does have some sense of the real nature of the relationship.

[BiancaSW]

9 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Well, yes, if you were going to offer her tangible evidence, that time has passed. 

What happens now in their marriage is their problem now. You don't know what she knows and doesn't know. You don't know how much of this she's already got her hands on. There are tons of ways to retrieve deleted messages from one's phone, if she were so inclined (just for example)

But regardless, you will slowly detach from this mess. You will slowly realize that this fantasy life was just that - a fantasy. You didn't know it at the time, but it wasn't ever going to happen. 

 

Sadly, because he was so serious with his intentions I have told my family about him and knew that. He was constantly asking what my mum and sister think of him. Whether my family would accept him. Whether there are issues like his financial income. He was worried and crying over that. so it was hard to distinguish what was fantasy at the time. 

yeah she could have read it - quite rightly. But she doesn’t know what I know from his colleagues. That I was not the reason he ever cheated on her. He did that before me - for example during someone’s retirement party he engaged with that retiring woman in a certain activity at the back of the taxi with other colleagues watching. everyone knew about it, she did not. he was getting busy with females for years when out of her sight.

[BaileyB]

11 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

As for what happens behind the closed doors - who knows...

You don’t know. And, it’s not your place to know. Leave them to their marriage. Be it happy or miserable, it is their family. 

11 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

If we was a happy family men we would not be willing to build a relationship with someone else and not asking a new person to be a part of his life.

This is an example of the stories OW tell themselves. The truth is, many happily married men cheat. They never intend to leave their marriage. They simply want more - they want the fantasy, they want the thrill, they want the attention, the adoration, the love, the power, the sex. 

What you should say is, a man with character and integrity would not build a relationship with another woman. 

The other thing you should consider - your presence in his life may have actually enabled him to stay in his marriage. IF life is hard, and she is demanding and there is no love lost between them, the affection that you shared may have made life at home bearable for him. 

This was not his first affair - I say that again because it is very important to understand. This is an established pattern of behavior - the fantasy that you created where he was unhappy at home and he was going to leave because you offered him a love that he had never experienced before was truly that - a fantasy. Past behavior would show that he was never going to leave. Past behavior would show that he was never a man to be trusted. 

[BiancaSW]

he did not think twice when he found out I like him - that we should have booked a room and had sex. that was after we spoke for 2 hours first time in our live. I should have seen it and thought about it but....

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

But she doesn’t know what I know from his colleagues. That I was not the reason he ever cheated on her. He did that before me - for example during someone’s retirement party he engaged with that retiring woman in a certain activity at the back of the taxi with other colleagues watching. everyone knew about it, she did not. he was getting busy with females for years when out of her sight.

Why was this not a HUGE red flag for you. Married man having public sex with other work colleagues. Gross!!

Do you have this fantasy that you will tell her the whole truth and then what - she will apologize to you and rationally place the blame with her terrible husband? Or, do you expect that she will leave him and you can have this disgusting man? Consider the fact that she could become even more angry with you. 

You were in a superior position at work - what if she tells HR, and you are fired for sexual harassment? If I was you, I would stay far, far away and hope that she leaves you alone. Leave them to their dysfunction. 

[BiancaSW]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You don’t know. And, it’s not your place to know. Leave them to their marriage. Be it happy or miserable, it is their family. 

This is an example of the stories OW tell themselves. The truth is, many happily married men cheat. They never intend to leave their marriage. They simply want more - they want the fantasy, they want the thrill, they want the attention, the adoration, the love, the power, the sex. 

What you should say is, a man with character and integrity would not build a relationship with another woman. 

The other thing you should consider - your presence in his life may have actually enabled him to stay in his marriage. IF life is hard, and she is demanding and there is no love lost between them, the affection that you shared may have made life at home bearable for him. 

This was not his first affair - I say that again because it is very important to understand. This is an established pattern of behavior - the fantasy that you created where he was unhappy at home and he was going to leave because you offered him a love that he had never experienced before was truly that - a fantasy. Past behavior would show that he was never going to leave. Past behavior would show that he was never a man to be trusted. 

true yes. it was not his first affair but it was the only long-lasting one. before he just engaged in one night stands with other ladies. 

He was not to be trusted - that’s for sure - but I only understand that now. What made me trust him more and to stay with him longer is one particular episode that happened to us.

[BiancaSW]

9 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Why was this not a HUGE red flag for you. Married man having public sex with other work colleagues. Gross!!

Do you have this fantasy that you will tell her the whole truth and then what - she will apologize to you and rationally place the blame with her terrible husband? Or, do you expect that she will leave him and you can have this disgusting man? Consider the fact that she could become even more angry with you. 

You were in a superior position at work - what if she tells HR, and you are fired for sexual harassment? If I was you, I would stay far, far away and hope that she leaves you alone. Leave them to their dysfunction. 

I am not engaging in any contact with them and I never was. I never spoke to that woman. The only thing I did was to send her a letter from my lawyer asking her to stop that weird harassing act she engaged herself in.

By the time we developed a rship - him and I were working in separate places. Same organisation but separate departments. And as I said there was no sexual harassment - she can say to HR whatever she wants but there is no evidence to prove it. If anything - that will backfire back at him. These are all empty threats.

 

[BaileyB]

12 minutes ago, BiancaSW said:

it was not his first affair but it was the only long-lasting one. before he just engaged in one night stands with other ladies. 

That doesn’t make it better. In fact, it should have given you even more concern…

If you haven’t done so already, I would get tested for STDs.