My husband has been cheating on me for the last 3 years

[husbandcheating]

3 hours ago, Allupinnit said:

Stop snooping.  You're only making yourself miserable.  She *could* theoretically be gone from your marriage if you just ignore it.

Look, you've already convinced yourself that he'll stay with you because your marriage holds more weight to him than an affair.  So let him have his fun.  I've said this before but if you have no interest in sex with him, she's probably propping up your marriage, giving him things he doesn't get from you.  You have the kids and the family life, she gives him the sex and intellectual stimulation.  He's got it pretty damn good especially because you both know about each other but refuse to leave his sorry ass.

Thank you @Allupinnit

[husbandcheating]

3 hours ago, introverted1 said:

 

HC, what I think you are not considering is that your husband has two very different relationships with you and Amanda. 

With you, he possibly has what is called companionate love.  He values you as the mother of his children and he values the idea of an intact family. This satisfies the part of him that loves his children and is concerned with responsibility and duty.

With Amanda, he has what is called romantic love.  They have passion between them, they have sex.  For men, this is crucial; I do not think men can love a woman romantically unless they are also having a physical relationship with her.  You have stated that you are your husband no longer have sex, that you prefer talking in the evenings over any sort of physical intimacy.

I do not think your marriage is salvageable for the fact that it seems your husband married you only because you were pregnant and this is not his first affair, although it appears to be his longest lasting. Either he does not see you as his romantic partner or he is man incapable of being faithful.  My money is on the former.

I can't speak for anyone else here but the reason I think your husband will ultimately leave you is that he needs romantic love and physical intimacy.  These are essential for most people.  I understand from what you have written that they are not essential for you, but in this respect you and your husband are mismatched.  As your children get older and need less and less daily attention from your husband, he will feel he has been dutiful enough and that's when he will leave to find his own fulfillment.

The reason men typically do not leave is because the AP is usually an addition to the wife, not a replacement for her.  Those men are still having a sexual/intimate relationship with their wives, so when the proverbial s*** hits the fan, they usually decide to stay put and work on the marriage.  In your case, though, there really is no marriage to work on: you and your husband are both focused on raising your boys but you are not focused on each other.  You do not share the emotional or physical intimacy that is the glue for a marriage.  The mere fact that you found out about your husband's and Amanda's matching tattoos from text messages, rather than observing it on his body, speaks volumes.

I get the sense from what you've written that you do not see sex as important, so perhaps this is part of why you are unable to understand the bond that exists between your husband and Amanda. It may also explain why you are content with the fact that he shows up -- at dinner, on vacation, at family events, etc. -- and see this as a measure of commitment and devotion rather than what I'm guessing he'd see it as - duty and obligation.  You think Amanda is unimportant because your husband doesn't spend the last minutes of the day with her. I bet she thinks you are unimportant because she has shared deep emotional and physical intimacy with him, and knows him in ways you don't even know exist. 

I think you really need to get into therapy with someone who is trained in affair counseling and who can help you see things as they are, not as you wish them to be.  Either your current therapist is remiss in how she is guiding you, or perhaps you have not been honest with her about the nature of your husband's affair.  Carrying on reading your husband's text exchanges is only going to eat you alive.

Thank you @introverted1 “he doesn’t see you as a romantic partner” this is hurtful to see as he’s said something similar to her. This is also confusing as if I kiss him, he kisses me back or if I plan a date with others, he’s there happily. If he doesn’t see me as his romantic partner then why would he go things romantic with me. Valentine’s Day is coming up and I’m sure he will take me out or buy a gift as he’s always done! This is considered a romantic holiday for romantic partners. 
 

I do feel like she is unimportant due to the moments and time she does not receive. If she were the one he wanted, he would be with her. In your opinion, don’t you think this amounts to something?

I know I am not well educated on affairs and that’s why I do read many posts here but again it’s so confusing to 96% of the time seeing most telling other women “he doesn’t love you, he’s using you for sex, he’s a typical  cheater” but my husband is eventually maybe in a year or a couple of years he will leave you for her, and he doesn’t plan on leaving her. 

[BaileyB]

9 hours ago, husbandcheating said:

This all makes me extremely mad but and I think I have mentioned this before, does any of this really matter? Because the times that matter, who he’s home with, who his evenings come down to, on the weekends he is with me, our family and extended family.

He talks to his affair partner with your children in the car and you say - how much does this really matter? As long as he brings the children home and we spend the evening together as a family…

Thata really the bottom line for you, it doesn’t matter what he does - as long as he comes home to you.

 

[BaileyB]

25 minutes ago, husbandcheating said:

If he doesn’t see me as his romantic partner then why would he go things romantic with me. Valentine’s Day is coming up and I’m sure he will take me out or buy a gift as he’s always done! This is considered a romantic holiday for romantic partners. 

I’m sure your husband will do the same AND have sex with his affair partner. 

[ilikept]

This isn't an affair.    It is for all practical purposes a  polygamist marriage.   

Both women are aware of this and are consenting to it.   

Oh Husbandcheating claims she doesn't like it,  but neither has she lifted a finger to do anything about it for many months on end, so by deed she is consenting.   

The OW obviously knows of Husbandcheating and yet she continues to participate and build their relationship as well so she is also consenting of this arrangement.    

And finally,  the MM in this has not done anything to effect the status quo of this arrangement either so this is all consenting adults in a nontraditional lifestyle.  

My advice for the OP in this matter is at least prepare yourself for a day when the OW tells him she is no longer ok with this and wants him to leave.   

Do you have a job?   Can you support yourself if he leaves?    (I'm going to assume no )     

You need to have your financial and child custody affairs in order to where if he packs up and moves out without warning one day,  you are able to secure your rightful share of the marital assets and access to your children.  

Everything is going along fine at the moment but that can change on a dime.  He could decide this week that he no longer wants to live with you and he will be moved out and living with her by the end of the week.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by ilikept

[jspice]

1 hour ago, husbandcheating said:

@SouthernIslander I’ve loved him since we were teenagers. Our love story to me is one that most wish they had. 

No. This is not a love story, and certainly not one I wish I had. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find many people here who would be content with “ he comes home to me and he’s going to buy me a Valentine’s Day gift”. 
 

[BaileyB]

26 minutes ago, ilikept said:

This isn't an affair.    It is for all practical purposes a  polygamist marriage.   

Both women are aware of this and are consenting to it.   

That’s not untrue. 

Both women serve very different purposes. Two very different relationships.

Edited January 24, 2022 by BaileyB

[ilikept]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

That’s not untrue. 

Both women serve very different purposes. Two very different relationships.

And he is also providing each woman with what she wants to the degree for which they are each content.   This is essentially a consensual triad that so far is working for everyone and everyone is coming away at least the minimum that each requires to maintain the status quo.  

[heartwhole2]

HC, all I can say is that the one thing you want -- a monogamous relationship with your husband -- isn't on offer. You can twist the evidence to suggest that maybe someday he'll tire of Amanda, but it takes a lot of mental gymnastics. The simplest explanation is that he is committed to Amanda but doesn't want to spend time away from his children (remember, he even offered to have full custody of them). That's why he is staying. That's why he is keeping up appearances.

I honestly can't understand how you are fine with a relationship where he's faking it. A relationship is a two way street; you know his side is all acting and appearances. You deserve more! You deserve someone who can't stand to be away from you. You keep saying you are happy enough with what he gives you, that if he gives you a gift for Valentine's Day you will feel special. Girlfriend, that's not romance. That's not love. That's placating you.

We can't make you get angry and demand more, but I think I can say that universally, everyone who reads your thread wishes that you would.

Think of Prince Charles. He was told he couldn't marry Camilla. He had an affair with her for years. Eventually he married her. Yes, most affairs are based on nothing. Most don't turn into long-lasting in the real world. But a small number do. Princess Diana decided she'd had enough. I hope you will too.

Edited January 24, 2022 by heartwhole2

[BaileyB]

15 minutes ago, jspice said:

No. This is not a love story, and certainly not one I wish I had. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find many people here who would be content with “ he comes home to me and he’s going to buy me a Valentine’s Day gift”. 
 

Or, he exposes MY children to his affair partner. In no way would I allow that - 

[heartwhole2]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

Or, he exposes MY children to his affair partner. In no way would I allow that - 

Yeah, I would be furious.

OP, you mentioned the tattoos. Again, that isn't something that you hear of APs doing left and right, nor is all the financial entanglement, involving the kids, etc. To me the tattoo reads as an FU to the BW . . . sure, I go home to her, but I've got a symbol of our love on my body always . . .

My husband made his FB photo a work of art that he and OW had seen together. It was one of my favorite artist's. Obviously it was a message to say, "Tee hee, no one knows it, but this is a secret symbol of our relationship." I'm STILL mad about it. The other day I saw something by the artist, and I cried and told my husband, "Did you have to ruin that artist for me?" He said, "Well that wasn't my intention . . ." and I said, no, stop. You don't get to use the "I had good intentions" excuse because you didn't have good intentions. Maybe you didn't view it as trying to make me feel not special, but you DID view it as trying to make someone else feel special under my nose.

Where is your anger, OP?

[heartwhole2]

This is taking me back to discovery, honestly. OP, I understand that you may have things in your life that make it hard to love yourself. I dearly wish you could. I'll always be proud that I flashed angry eyes at my WH and announced that I was sure I could find someone else who would want me and be a good partner because he didn't seem to be one anymore. I said, "I'm a CATCH!" He looked so scared, lol.

I honestly think your best bet is to call his bluff. Now odds are he will choose Amanda, not you, but there is some chance that his commitment to his children is great enough that he'd agree to give the marriage a MONOGAMOUS chance for some period of time. There's also a chance that Amanda would get frustrated and disappointed in him post DDay and she would remove herself from the equation. But as long as you do nothing to change, well, nothing will change . . .

[introverted1]

3 hours ago, husbandcheating said:

1. Thank you @introverted1 “he doesn’t see you as a romantic partner” this is hurtful to see as he’s said something similar to her. This is also confusing as if I kiss him, he kisses me back or if I plan a date with others, he’s there happily. If he doesn’t see me as his romantic partner then why would he go things romantic with me. Valentine’s Day is coming up and I’m sure he will take me out or buy a gift as he’s always done! This is considered a romantic holiday for romantic partners. 
 

2. I do feel like she is unimportant due to the moments and time she does not receive. If she were the one he wanted, he would be with her. In your opinion, don’t you think this amounts to something?

3. I know I am not well educated on affairs and that’s why I do read many posts here but again it’s so confusing to 96% of the time seeing most telling other women “he doesn’t love you, he’s using you for sex, he’s a typical  cheater” but my husband is eventually maybe in a year or a couple of years he will leave you for her, and he doesn’t plan on leaving her. 

Hi HC, I've numbered your questions to make it easier to reply.

1.  You keep ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that you are not having sex with your husband, seemingly by your choice.  This is an implicit part of being his romantic partner.  I don't know when you stopped being intimate with him, but I can tell you that he values the physical intimacy Amanda provides far more than the card and/or dinner out he will have with you. With you, I believe he is going through the motions - following the "dutiful husband" playbook, so to speak. These gestures are not romantic in and of themselves; they are romantic when the feelings behind them are in alignment.  I think your husband has figured out that as long as he plays the role of a devoted husband - buys you presents, goes on holiday, gives you a flowery card -- he can put you off the scent of his affair.  And, to some extent he is right.  You seem to value these surface gestures more than the deep intimacy one would expect between two people who loved one another and were committed to a lifetime together.

2.  He is with her in spirit, thought, and emotion.  And he is with her physically to the extent that he feels able. You have mentioned that he offered to buy you a house to live in if you would leave, and leave the children with him. You have also shared that he does not believe the children should have only you in their lives as a fulltime care-giver. It is quite clear that he stays for the children, whom he has decided need his daily presence in their lives. He is not with you out of love.  I do not say that to be harsh.  It is just a reality of the situation.

3. Your marriage is not a statistics problem.  Just because 90% of the men in affairs don't leave, doesn't mean your marriage is in that 90%.  Your husband has taken extraordinary steps with Amanda -- commingling finances, starting a business, setting up accounts for your children, involving her in his doctor's appointments, getting a matching tattoo with her. These are not things the 90% of men who don't leave are doing.  Your husband's pattern suggests a real and lasting commitment to Amanda. So it doesn't matter how many threads here end up with husbands not leaving; your situation is your own unique situation and has to be evaluated against the actions your husband is taking.  And the consensus is that, when he feels the time is right, he will leave. If I had to guess, he is getting closer and closer to that point.  He's now escalated to having Amanda take a vacation in the same location where you and he are, so that he can visit her every day.  Either you were oblivious to this previously, or this is new.  If the latter, it suggests that his tolerance for being away from her is diminishing. Or perhaps she is pressuring him to leave.  Either way, I do not see you being the victor in this situation.  And even if by some miracle you were, what would you win?  The presence of a man whose heart is elsewhere and who now resents you for the fact that he can no longer be with the woman he loves.

For your own sake and the sake of your children (what on earth are they thinking when he's talking to Amanda from the car?!) you need to acknowledge that your husband is not committed to you.  He may be committed to his children and doesn't want to rock the boat until he's prepared his exit (and this is why he plays along as the dutiful husband), but he is nothing more than an actor playing a role when he is with you.  It would really be in your best interests to 1) get a realistic therapist and 2) speak to a lawyer.

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by introverted1

[ilikept]

2 hours ago, introverted1 said:

Hi HC, I've numbered your questions to make it easier to reply.

1.  You keep ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that you are not having sex with your husband, seemingly by your choice.  This is an implicit part of being his romantic partner.  I don't know when you stopped being intimate with him, but I can tell you that he values the physical intimacy Amanda provides far more than the card and/or dinner out he will have with you. With you, I believe he is going through the motions - following the "dutiful husband" playbook, so to speak. These gestures are not romantic in and of themselves; they are romantic when the feelings behind them are in alignment.  I think your husband has figured out that as long as he plays the role of a devoted husband - buys you presents, goes on holiday, gives you a flowery card -- he can put you off the scent of his affair.  And, to some extent he is right.  You seem to value these surface gestures more than the deep intimacy one would expect between two people who loved one another and were committed to a lifetime together.

2.  He is with her in spirit, thought, and emotion.  And he is with her physically to the extent that he feels able. You have mentioned that he offered to buy you a house to live in if you would leave, and leave the children with him. You have also shared that he does not believe the children should have only you in their lives as a fulltime care-giver. It is quite clear that he stays for the children, whom he has decided need his daily presence in their lives. He is not with you out of love.  I do not say that to be harsh.  It is just a reality of the situation.

3. Your marriage is not a statistics problem.  Just because 90% of the men in affairs don't leave, doesn't mean your marriage is in that 90%.  Your husband has taken extraordinary steps with Amanda -- commingling finances, starting a business, setting up accounts for your children, involving her in his doctor's appointments, getting a matching tattoo with her. These are not things the 90% of men who don't leave are doing.  Your husband's pattern suggests a real and lasting commitment to Amanda. So it doesn't matter how many threads here end up with husbands not leaving; your situation is your own unique situation and has to be evaluated against the actions your husband is taking.  And the consensus is that, when he feels the time is right, he will leave. If I had to guess, he is getting closer and closer to that point.  He's now escalated to having Amanda take a vacation in the same location where you and he are, so that he can visit her every day.  Either you were oblivious to this previously, or this is new.  If the latter, it suggests that his tolerance for being away from her is diminishing. Or perhaps she is pressuring him to leave.  Either way, I do not see you being the victor in this situation.  And even if by some miracle you were, what would you win?  The presence of a man whose heart is elsewhere and who now resents you for the fact that he can no longer be with the woman he loves.

For your own sake and the sake of your children (what on earth are they thinking when he's talking to Amanda from the car?!) you need to acknowledge that your husband is not committed to you.  He may be committed to his children and doesn't want to rock the boat until he's prepared his exit (and this is why he plays along as the dutiful husband), but he is nothing more than an actor playing a role when he is with you.  It would really be in your best interests to 1) get a realistic therapist and 2) speak to a lawyer.

 

 

I think #1 goes beyond "ignoring" the elephant in the room.     I think this is acceptance.       He has been involved with the OW for 3 years and they have intertwined their lives together, not as APs,  but as an actual couple.   

The OP has known all about this for 7 months yet has not said a peep or lifted a finger to do anything about it.    This is acceptance.   

She is getting what she wants out of the relationship which is his provisioning and support,  christmas, birthday and valentine's cards and trips as well as full time child rearing support.  

She is  not ignoring their relationship as she has been keeping nearly daily tabs on it -   she is accepting it and chalking it up as the Price Of Admission for getting his support.   

The reason she has not said or done anything about this is because she does not want to rock the boat or disrupt the status quo.    If she confronts him or does anything about this,  he may pack up and withdraw his support and Valentines cards.   

To acknowledge a problem means undertaking some level of accountability to do something about it.       She does NOT want to do anything about it because doing something about it will threaten what she currently has.  

Edited January 24, 2022 by ilikept

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, ilikept said:

She does NOT want to do anything about it because doing something about it will threaten what she currently has.  

I think she wants to do something about it and banish Amanda from their lives, but her options are limited. 
She can't be certain he will choose her and stay if she rocks the boat.
She can't afford to be a single parent. Low wages and an expensive area.
She doesn't have a claim to the house.
I think she is also frightened he will take the kids away.
4 boys with a hero for a Dad, I guess her hold on them may be tenuous if tested.
Even if he can't legally take them away. They may vote with their feet.

I get all the reasons to turn a blind eye, many women are realistic and pragmatic and live with cheating men.
Some men do the same and live with cheating women.
What I don't get here is the constant denial of the facts.

Edited January 24, 2022 by elaine567

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, husbandcheating said:

@Wiseman2 he has not explained the tattoo. He does not know I am aware of her. 

It seems like you turn a blind eye to not rock the boat and perhaps you think it's just a phase?

Is his lover married? 

[ExpatInItaly]

9 hours ago, husbandcheating said:

I’ve loved him since we were teenagers. Our love story to me is one that most wish they had.

Eh, not really.

I mean no disrespect, but most of us move on from our teenage loves for good reason. We grow and change and want different things. That's why teen relationships are usually training wheels for the bigger and better ones ahead in adulthood. 

 Can some make it work? Yes. Is that what most people wish for? I don't think so. I can't imagine my own teenage boyfriend being my life partner, personally. No thanks. And I think you hanging on this narrative is the part of the problem. You have convinced yourself this is a love story for the ages, but it's really quite far from it. You're refusing to see it any other way but I don't think most would envy your relationship, OP. 

[introverted1]

6 hours ago, ilikept said:

I think #1 goes beyond "ignoring" the elephant in the room.     I think this is acceptance.       He has been involved with the OW for 3 years and they have intertwined their lives together, not as APs,  but as an actual couple.   

You've misread my #1.  I am referring to OP's decision not to have sex with her husband. Quite clearly she has some level of acceptance of the affair.

Edited January 24, 2022 by introverted1

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I think she wants to do something about it and banish Amanda from their lives, but her options are limited. 

Her options are nil.
She is completely at his mercy - and he knows it. That’s part of the reason why is so bold. He holds all the cards.

Edited January 24, 2022 by BaileyB

[introverted1]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Her options are nil.
She is completely at his mercy - and he knows it. That’s part of the reason why is so bold. He holds all the cards.

Is he bold? No snark there, I truly can't tell. 

It seems that if HC did not have access to his phone, she would have no idea what he was up to. 

HC seems to be incredibly naive on several fronts: For one, that this is her husband's 3rd or 4th affair, which most of us would recognize mean that we have a serial cheater and broken marriage on our hands. For another, that she and her husband have not been having sex for at least since the start of this thread and likely a lot longer (although this point is never addressed). Most women would know that persistently refusing sex with their spouse would create a significant break in the relationship (and equally if it were the husband who decided to call off all sexual activity). 

Bottom line is that I am not sure if he is bold or if HC is just (willfully or otherwise) clueless.

HC - sorry to speak about you rather than to you, but perhaps you can shed some light on when and why physical intimacy with your husband stopped.

[BaileyB]

25 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Bottom line is that I am not sure if he is bold or if HC is just (willfully or otherwise) clueless.

It’s both. He is bold in that he is carrying on a very intimate and committed relationship while married to another woman (he is tied to this woman professionally and financially, she provides sex and emotional support, she books his doctors appointments, etc… She behaves as a wife would - a wife that was seriously committed to her husband). Not many men will get this involved with their affair partner. 

Not to speak for you OP, but I believe she has said in the past that she has little interest in sex. She much prefers talking with her husband, doing things with their children and their families, and “dating” (ie. going to dinner). But, that’s where it ends for her - she doesn’t need sex to be happy in her relationship. Whereas, he seems to have found another workable solution. 

Quote

Ever so often, we do engage in physical intimacy. He kisses me when I need a kiss. And I love to share this on my social media. 

 

Quote

We do not have sex frequently and he used to complain about this years ago. He loves sex but to me I thought daily life has finally caught up to him and sex is a back burner. I rather talk at the end of the day versus having sex. We used to have arguments over this earlier in the marriage.

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by BaileyB

[introverted1]

9 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Not to speak for you OP, but I believe she has said in the past that she has little interest in sex. She much prefers talking with her husband, doing things with their children and their families, and “dating” (ie. going to dinner). But, that’s where it ends for her - she doesn’t need sex to be happy in her relationship. Whereas, he seems to have found another workable solution. 

Yes, I've seen her say that she prefers conversation to sex.  What I haven't seen, and perhaps I've missed it, is any acknowledgement that, for the overwhelming majority of men, this signifies the end of the romantic relationship.  It's a bullet to the heart of the marriage.  I am not saying this justifies his actions. In my opinion, he should have  just asked for a divorce at the time of the first affair.  But it does speak to her lack of understanding about what romantic love looks like. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by introverted1
typo

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

for the overwhelming majority of men, this signifies the end of the romantic relationship.  It's a bullet to the heart of the marriage. 

Absolutely. He is a young man, in the prime of his life.

She may prefer conversations at the end of the day, but he clearly does not. He’s not going to live without sex. 

[vla1120]

@husbandcheating I wish you thought more of yourself. I wish you believed you deserve better. I am sad that you think him coming home to you every night is enough. I worry about how you will cope if/when he leaves you for her. You cannot really stake a claim on his family home and I believe he is determined to gain full custody of your children whether to keep from having to pay child support to you, or because he does not believe you are a good mother to his children (which he has indicated in the past - and that would be enough for me to flip my lid.) For as much as you think you are living the dream life with him, I worry about your mental state when the rug is pulled out from under you. 

[alsudduth]

20 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

My husband made his FB photo a work of art that he and OW had seen together. It was one of my favorite artist's. Obviously it was a message to say, "Tee hee, no one knows it, but this is a secret symbol of our relationship." I'm STILL mad about it.

Yup my husband did the same thing with Music sharing on his social media.  It still hurts to this day and we are in a great place generally.