do I try to talk to bf in couple that's on the verge of a breakup?

[Marks]

This post is actually not about me but about two of my friends who are in a relationship together and have been engaged for the past two years.

I've known these two friends for  over 10 years, and they've been together for about as long (I first met and became friends with the guy, and about a year later we both met the girl, shortly after which the two of them started dating).

The situation that they're in is really sad for me given how long they've been together and how long I've known them.  

After 8 years of being together, they finally got engaged two years ago in 2019, and were supposed to get married in spring 2020.  Of course, then COVID happened, and so they had to postpone the wedding indefinitely until the pandemic situation improved.  

Now that things have been improving, I've been expecting them to restart their wedding plans, but I've since come to find out that they've been going through a rough patch in their relationship due to differing opinions between them about the girlfriend getting the COVID vaccine. 

Basically what it comes down to is that the school/work that the girlfriend studies/works at is requiring a COVID vaccine in order to return to campus.  So In terms of being able to continue her graduate studies at this school (and possibly work too), she would need to get the vaccine.  

She personally doesn't have any problems with this vaccine requirement, and would get the vaccine in order to stay enrolled, but her boyfriend has become adamant that she not get the vaccine.  Apparently, he's fallen into the hole of surrounding himself in a lot of far right-wing/libertarian/almost Q-Anonesque rhetoric since the pandemic started, and although he doesn't have any problems with the vaccine itself (I think stemming from the fact that he's been a scientific researcher for most of his adult life, and so understands the science behind it), he's built up a hard-line conviction that no organization, institution, business, or government entity should be allowed to require that individuals get vaccinated.  

Given this hard-line conviction, he's threatened the girlfriend that if she gets the vaccine, that he'll break up with her because he "can't be married to and have children with a coward" who won't stand up to the school's vaccine requirement.  

Apparently this debate between them over the vaccine has gone on for several weeks, and at this point the girlfriend has resorted to leaving their home (that they own jointly together) and staying with a family member for the time being until this situation gets resolved.  I didn't know this before, but apparently this isn't the first time during their relationship that he's given her ultimatums like this over something that would affect her education, career, and the future of their relationship... so it fits a bit of a pattern.  

She's tried to reason with him through a variety of means, through his siblings and other family, and more recently through writing him a letter outlining where's she's coming and how he's treated her, and how important it is for her to be able to make her own choice on this in terms of what it means for her education and career.  But nothing seems to be reaching him, and he's maintaining a hard-line stance, reinforced by the internet echo-chamber that supports his view on not bending to vaccine requirements.

As a friend who's known these two people for a decade, I'm extremely saddened by this situation. Of all the people who I thought would "make-it" together, it was them.

I want to help them somehow, but I'm not sure what the best approach is, without potentially making things worse.  As someone who was "there" when they met, who knows their origin story,  do I reach out to him and somehow try to reason and talk him down from his hard-line stance? Him and I don't agree on a lot of things politically, so I could see such a conversation potentially blowing up, and maybe even threatening the relationship between the two of us. But I'd like to think that we have more in common as friends than just politics, so I'd hope that I would have some sway with him in terms of offering a different perspective that he would listen to.  

On the flip side, I also wonder if I *should* try to help... not because I don't care about these two friends and their relationship, but because if indeed he's exhibited controlling behavior like this in the past -- then I hate to say this -- but maybe it's better if they do break up?   In my view it's not healthy to be in a relationship where a partner tries to exert control over their S.O. through ultimatums and threats like this.  Perhaps the girlfriend is better off not getting married to him and being stuck in a relationship like that for years to come, even if it's incredibly sad to see things fall apart like this after so many years of them being together.  
 

Both of these people are my friends, and I care about both of them deeply.  And I care about their relationship and seeing it succeed. But it also pains me to see the girlfriend be in what sounds to be an unhealthy relationship. Rather,  I want her to be in a happy and healthy one where they are partners who are willing to compromise. So I don’t know how I can best help in this situation.

[Wiseman2]

Maybe their relationship shouldn't continue. The course of this, especially the political fanaticism/extreme incompatibility, is sure to drive this into a ditch.

At any rate, just listen neutrally, no sides and let it play out..

[basil67]

27 minutes ago, Marks said:

he's threatened the girlfriend that if she gets the vaccine, that he'll break up with her because he "can't be married to and have children with a coward" who won't stand up to the school's vaccine requirement.  

Leaving is the only option for her.  Difference of opinion is one thing, but him trying to assert this type of control is another thing altogether.  

I know you're trying to sit neutrally, but I'd be distancing myself from any friend who started to carry on like this.

[MsJayne]

I work with a guy who has these extreme views, and he actually starts getting angry if anyone in our office mentions that they've had, or are booked in for, the vaccine.  He got so angry at lunch one day last week that I had to leave the table because I knew I was going to start laughing at him. His gripe against it is that it hasn't been tested enough, blah, blah, blah, and also that he thinks the virus is just another type of flu and the whole world is massively over-reacting. He doesn't seem to grasp that it's the infection rate, more than the illness itself, which is the threat. Interestingly, no one at the table debates it with him, and that's because we all think he's been reading too much garbage on the dark web, getting his tinfoil hat in a terrible twist, and no one wants to insult or belittle him. But, if he announced that he's thinking of divorcing his wife because she's going to have the vaccine, I wouldn't hesitate to tell him he's being very foolish letting politics and irresponsible media interfere with his personal relationships. Arrogance, fear, and defiance are the main reasons people are refusing vaccination, not so much factual information about why it is or isn't dangerous. Expecting his fiance to throw her education out the window because of "principles" smacks of toxic extremism, not to mention very controlling behaviour, and also suggests that he doesn't respect her intellect. 

[d0nnivain]

Stay out of it.  It's their relationship & they have to figure this out.  His hard-line stance on anything is an indication that he's not ready for marriage which requires compromise & putting the other's needs 1st.  

In her shoes the minute he started with the ultimatums, I would have been done.  

[Sun Seeker]

The boyfriend sounds like a complete idiot.

Do not get involved, better they break up and she finds someone better.

[ExpatInItaly]

No, don't insert yourself into this. 

She needs to arrive at her own decisions, and he would not listen to you anyway. I highly doubt he's going to suddenly listen to reason.

If she keeps going back despite being mistreated, that's on her. It's hard to watch but it's not your place to get involved. 

[Wiseman2]

It's never a good idea to play couples therapist. If you want to listen to this drama for limited times, fine, but stay out of it.

Best to distance yourself from all this. Get busier with your own friends, family, work, interests, hobbies,etc.

 

[Blind-Sided]

14 hours ago, Marks said:

Given this hard-line conviction, he's threatened the girlfriend that if she gets the vaccine, that he'll break up with her because he "can't be married to and have children with a coward" who won't stand up to the school's vaccine requirement.  

OK... there are a lot of things we can debate here..... but since this is just about the couple... we will leave it all out.

But here's the deal... unless you are 100% on the same page... anyone who is Hard left, or Hard Right can not be reasoned with.  For right or wrong, they are stuck in their position to an almost "Cult Like" obsession.   Also, anyone who threatens to break up to force you to do what they want.... is not a person you want to spend a life with.  Even if she gives into this... what happens 5 years from now when the next "Cult" opinion item comes up, and they are on opposite sides?  He will threaten again.  And... will he reimburse her for the time spent at school, and the job lost if she doesn't get the vac?  The realty is... these are private places (school/Job) and they can require anything. 

The big issue here is that there is no middle ground.  He has given her an ultimatum that is "You are either with me, or against me" kind of thing, and can't see that maybe it's just her choice.  I know a few people who are like this... and to be honest... they are @ss holes about it. (one is a flat Earther)  But I also have a friend who is "Normal" and hasn't gotten the vac yet... but is willing if there is a little more time and proof.

8 years or not... this is a HUGE issue, and she needs to walk away.   PERIOD.

You really shouldn't get into the middle of this other than to tell her she needs to walk away from someone who is this extreme and won't consider the other side. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Blind-Sided

[spiderowl]

I am sorry to hear what has happened between your friends and I can see you feel a responsibility to try to help if you can.  However, I think you are right in that he should not be giving his girlfriend such ultimatums.  He is a rigid thinker and (quite frankly) she is going to be better off without him. 

It sounds like you have already answered your own question about talking to him, in that you think the conversation is likely to blow up.  I think you are right.  If you want to maintain a friendship with him, I would not tackle him on this.  It is between him and his girlfriend.  One may argue that a true friend would try to help his mate out if he thought he was making a big mistake, but it sounds like this is part of your mate's personality.  While attitudes can change, I do not think personality fundamentally changes.  He is likely to continue being rigid and controlling.  He is not interested in a philosophical debate about whether it is right or wrong for an employer/organisation to require vaccination, he is not debating the issue, he has a rigid view.

I feel for his girlfriend actually.  It sounds like she has done her best to try to deal with him rationally and made every effort to explain her position to him. He prefers to throw away the relationship if she does not comply with him.  

They have been together a surprisingly long time, considering his attitudes.  Maybe she has finally had enough of what sounds like repeated threats to dump her if she does not do as he wishes.  I am glad she has finally got herself out of this controlling relationship. It sounds like you are too.