Should I inititate the 2nd date?

[Gaeta]

2 minutes ago, norealusername said:

This sounds like very timid behavior. 

He's also expressive on text, but in person he doesn't use grand romance. 

[Miss Spider]

Also want to add a very important thing that I know I could very well be wrong about it and happy to be. Said same thing to my friend. It could work out beautifully. So far things have turned for the better it seems?  Just  wanted to offer another  perspective that might be heeded/given  some consideration . Ty 

[cleverusername]

Here's the deal G straight from a man (I'm not reading all 13pages tho):

This guy is unique, he's a flower, and he's probably insecure about himself or something he did. It may be he is insecure about the poetry, and not sure how you took it, or the poetry is a symptom of the insecurity and he chooses to express himself that way, either way doesn't matter. The man is insecure.

There are 2 reasons he's not asking for a second date but did a first,

A) He's no longer interested

B) He's insecure and you need to coax him out of his shell by reciprocating

Either way, it's on him. Make it explicitly clear you enjoyed the poetry and explicitly clear you would like to see him again. If he doesn't take the bait, then this relationship will go nowhere. 

Edit: Read that you went on a second date and the reasoning. This guy is extremely insecure and will be in constant need of validation. He's not expressive in a confident and bold sense, he's expressive in the sense of a flower that will need to be protected and sheltered, but is nice to look at sometimes. Are you trying to grow a garden?

Edited July 6, 2021 by cleverusername

[Gaeta]

@cleverusername: You're making a good point.

It probably did mean something to him that I initiated that 2nd date. Before last night he sent 1 message a day and today he contacted me at 3 different time in the day and we're only 4 pm. It's never long just to touch base.

[Allupinnit]

On 7/1/2021 at 11:38 AM, Gaeta said:

No I have not heard from him since yesterday morning. I deleted him, did not block him. If he writes back I'll have to ask who is this?. 🙂

Why would a man contact a woman on a Thursday without inviting her out? Just to waste her time.

 

Do you remember this just a few days ago?

I mean, at least you passed his sh*t test.  I just find that so ungentlemanly, waiting as long as it took for YOU to do the asking - puh-leeze.  But hey, you have to date him, we don't.

[chillii]

10 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Men complain all the time on here how they take the ladies out on dates, invest time and money and then on 3rd date the lady says: meh, not feeling it. The guy goes back online, catch another one, rince repeat. This odd duck simply wanted his interest to be reciprocated. An equal, I treat you, you treat me. I have no problem with that. If I had not been confused by the poems I would have asked him on that second date much earlier. 

I'm not defending everything about this guy but I'm not ready to throw rocks at him for being 'different'. There were little things here and there that made me wonder if this is the man for me. I don't get swept away that easily. After what happened with my ex, my guards are way up. 

Meanwhile I am setting up a first meeting with number 10, I am still online, still getting messages, still taking interest in other men. 

 

Yeah right, wouldn't know about any of that never spent money on a women in my life expecting anything or counting dates or wetf else bs they all seem to do round here. Anyway hope l'm wrong didn't wanna dampen anything for ya just thought some wariness might be better put out there.

 

 

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

Do you remember this just a few days ago?

I mean, at least you passed his sh*t test.  I just find that so ungentlemanly, waiting as long as it took for YOU to do the asking - puh-leeze.  But hey, you have to date him, we don't.

I was thinking the same thing...S-test? And now she won the brass ring, she gets to go out with him as the reward? Hard pass.

I personally think it's telling that he's incredibly wordy on his poems but in person he seems different. Again...this is just me. I'm not there, I'm not talking to the guy.

 

[poppyfields]

Gaeta, what do you think would have happened if you never initiated the second date?  Would he have let you go? 

A woman he was attracted to and connected with?  

The first date was actually the first "meet" was it not?

You had not even met each other yet, so to me that's bit different from initiating a date because he was interested in you, after having met you.

So his requirement that you initiate the second date, with the excuse he needs "equal effort," seems a bit off to me.

You made plenty of effort, you responded very positively to all his poetry, and I recall your mentioning you initiated a phone call and he was very happy you did so!

So he knew you liked him, he knew you would accept a second invite, so not quite sure I understand his rationale about requiring you to initiate it.

In any event, I am not judging, when we really like someone, it's not uncommon to make all sorts of justifications for behavior we might otherwise feel uncomfortable about.

My advice is go on this third date, and play it out.  

Have fun and good luck!

Edited July 6, 2021 by poppyfields

[Gaeta]

So where is the harm in all this?

Because l initiated the 2nd date a future relationship is now doomed?

He's nice, he's a total gentleman in his language and behavior around me. No sexual innuendoes and that's like a record for me to not hear it for 2 weeks. (My #10 started asking sex questions after 24 hours.). He doesn't give me the go around, he's there, he texts, he replies within minutes. 

At the restaurant yesterday he was excited to show me his iphone accounting software. His phone was in my hands, he was not in a hurry to get it back, he was relaxed. 

So what he's insecure a bit with women and needed a push. We advise insecure people every day here, they're not ill intent for that. I don't know his dating history, i'm carrying some heavy stuff myself that makes me guarded. 

Now, my dear LS friends. I'm not infatuated, l like him the way l like raspberry ice cream it's nice in the moment. I'm not even sure l can develop feelings for anybody at this time.

I think if l had not invited him he would have eventually, or maybe not. It doesn't matter. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Gaeta

[poppyfields]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:37 AM, Gaeta said:

He did the pursuing, made the invite for the first date....

Gaeta, sorry to ask again but I am confused about this "effort" he supposedly made such that he required you to make "equal effort" by initiating a second meet/date.

The quoted above, this was a first meet between two strangers.

Okay I get he was the one who suggested it, but that's pretty standard, I don't really see that as "effort" necessarily.  I mean it was a first meet between two strangers, he didn't even know you at that point.

But yet after the meet, he intentionally chose to sit on his ass (sorry) knowing you were interested in seeing him again as evidenced by your responses to his poetry and you initiating a phone call...

I dunno, I hate to sound negative but it all sounds quite manipulative and calculating to me.

I mean who does that?  Intentionally does nothing as some sort of "shyt test" to see if you step up and make "equal effort"?

Equal to what?  His suggestion for a first meet?

And what if you had not stepped up?  That's it?  You failed the shyt test, so CYA?

Anyway, again apologies for sounding negative but this seems very off to me.

Very manipulative and calculating on his part.

I hope I am wrong because I know you really like him; my only advice is stay aware and don't allow chemistry to blind you to possible manipulation and shyt tests.

Best of luck...
 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

18 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Gaeta, sorry to ask again but I am confused about this "effort" he supposedly made such that he required you to make "equal effort" by initiating a second meet/date.

The quoted above, this was a first meet between two strangers.

Okay I get he was the one who suggested it, but that's pretty standard, I don't really see that as "effort" necessarily.  I mean it was a first meet between two strangers, he didn't even know you at that point.

But yet after the meet, he intentionally chose to sit on his ass (sorry) knowing you were interested in seeing him again as evidenced by your responses to his poetry and you initiating a phone call...

I dunno, I hate to sound negative but it all sounds quite manipulative and calculating to me.

I mean who does that?  Intentionally does nothing as some sort of "shyt test" to see if you step up and make "equal effort"?

Equal to what?  His suggestion for a first meet?

And what if you had not stepped up?  That's it?  You failed the shyt test, so CYA?

Anyway, again apologies for sounding negative but this seems very off to me.

Very manipulative and calculating on his part.

I hope I am wrong because I know you really like him; my only advice is stay aware and don't allow chemistry to blind you to possible manipulation and shyt tests.

Best of luck...
 

Apologies Gaeta, I posted this before I read your last response.   Have fun with it, play it out.  You're smart, if he is manipulating and calculating, those colors will show their face in due course, and if they do, you will know what to do.

In the meantime, enjoy and have fun.  Continue keeping options open.  😄
 

Edited July 7, 2021 by poppyfields

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Gaeta, sorry to ask again but I am confused about this "effort" he supposedly made such that he required you to make "equal effort" by initiating a second meet/date.

The way I understood it is: He let himself be vulnerable in a way, he expressed in many words and gestures he liked me,  he spoke about personal things like his hopes and fears (not related to me)  On my end, I had a great time BUT I'm guarded, I may not have reciprocated the way he hoped. I'm bubbly and chatty but I don't open up. 

It's not about keeping counts of the invites. It was more about me making a statement gesture. 

[poppyfields]

Just now, Gaeta said:

The way I understood it is: He let himself be vulnerable in a way, he expressed in many words and gestures he liked me,  he spoke about personal things like his hopes and fears (not related to me)  On my end, I had a great time BUT I'm guarded, I may not have reciprocated the way he hoped. I'm bubbly and chatty but I don't open up. 

It's not about keeping counts of the invites. It was more about me making a statement gesture. 

Okay fair enough.  Again enjoy and have fun, and hope the third date goes as well as the first two!

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

The way I understood it is: He let himself be vulnerable in a way, he expressed in many words and gestures he liked me,  he spoke about personal things like his hopes and fears (not related to me)  On my end, I had a great time BUT I'm guarded, I may not have reciprocated the way he hoped. I'm bubbly and chatty but I don't open up. 

It's not about keeping counts of the invites. It was more about me making a statement gesture. 

Gaeta, I hesitated posting this, but re the bolded, after only ONE meet, you behavior was perfectly appropriate.  You were bubbly and chatty, which is normal and healthy for a first meet, and afterwards.

I am curious what he (or you) felt you should you have opened up about? Again it was ONE meet.

HIS behavior was not appropriate.  No one should be expressing their vulnerabilities, their hopes and fears after only one meet, that is over the top and suggests someone who lacks proper boundaries.

And then for him to use that as justification as to why YOU should be initiating the second meet?   To show equal effort?

Equal to what, HIS inappropriateness for spilling his feels during and after the first meet?

I am sorry, I am back to thinking this man is manipulative and he's got you hoodwinked into believing you did something "wrong" by not spilling your feels and being vulnerable the way he was, and punished you for it by sitting on his ass, intentionally not taking initiative, waiting for you to step up and "prove yourself."  

What a load....

I think it's important to put this in proper perspective, this all took place after ONE meet.

Be careful.
 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by poppyfields

[cleverusername]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

So where is the harm in all this?

Because l initiated the 2nd date a future relationship is now doomed?

He's nice, he's a total gentleman in his language and behavior around me. No sexual innuendoes and that's like a record for me to not hear it for 2 weeks. (My #10 started asking sex questions after 24 hours.). He doesn't give me the go around, he's there, he texts, he replies within minutes. 

At the restaurant yesterday he was excited to show me his iphone accounting software. His phone was in my hands, he was not in a hurry to get it back, he was relaxed. 

So what he's insecure a bit with women and needed a push. We advise insecure people every day here, they're not ill intent for that. I don't know his dating history, i'm carrying some heavy stuff myself that makes me guarded. 

Now, my dear LS friends. I'm not infatuated, l like him the way l like raspberry ice cream it's nice in the moment. I'm not even sure l can develop feelings for anybody at this time.

I think if l had not invited him he would have eventually, or maybe not. It doesn't matter. 

I'm like 90% sure it was you that told me in an older topic of yours, you are tired of men that are "projects"..... guess what you have here? 

[Eternal Sunshine]

I see no red flags here. He didn't misrepresent himself, lie, been aggressive in words or actions. The fact that he didn't promptly initiate 2nd date is a yellow flag at most. And the worst case scenario is that one day, he will not initiate another date and/or dump Geata. Meh, she will be fine. There is much more to gain than to lose here.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Also to add: when I was younger, I initiated a lot of dates. It is by no means true that most men will go along with going on dates as long as you invite them, even if they are not into you. Especially without sex involved. Men were very quick to fade, cancel, not reply etc regardless of my initiation.

[beentheredonethat77]

Gaeta  -- Apologies in advance if you already mentioned this, but is he Italian (or some other european origin?) --- I ask because my experience has been men in Europe are far more old-world romantic with their poems and mannerisms.... I am like you and dont mind it, one lovely man i dated was very sincere... yet sensitive and still very much an alpha.    

Of course, like any potential dates/boyfriends we keep our guard up -- .. but cultural differences could definitely be a factor here.. (my American / Australian friends would cringe audibly if they heard what some of the things my lovely European boyfriend said..we ended when he sadly passed away.. but he was pure of heart, sensitive and romantic.. yet loyal to his core).   

 

All the best discovering what makes this interesting man tick.   I have found there is no formula for a cheating/disloyal player man.. it can just as easily be the bodyguard who is great with his elderly mum; but could still very well be frequenting strip clubs for back-room fun in his spare time --- IMHO there is no way to know except for time, observation and staying deeply in tune with your intuition.  

Edited July 7, 2021 by beentheredonethat77

[LivingWaterPlease]

Hoping for the best for you on this, Gaeta. It's seems to me you may like poet guy more than you are admitting to yourself. Nothing wrong with that, but may be more helpful to admit it to yourself if that is so.

I do think you need to play this one out. Obviously, I don't mean that in the sense of being gamey, just to be clear.

I agree with some points Elaine made and some that Poppy made. I think this guy is smooth. I also think he's probably insecure. I've seen plenty of smooth, experienced, insecure men but have never dated one the second time. And I think he's also manipulative, possibly controlling, not sure but could be.

The fact that he waited until you asked him out and then made a big deal about how important it was to him that you asked him out seemed to me he is rewarding you for taking the initiative and setting you up to feed his ego (because he's insecure) by having you move into a leadership role in the R he hopes to have with  you.

Be that as it may, every man (or woman for the men) is going to have some issues. You just need to find what they are and decide if you can deal with them or not.

When you used to post about your ex that cheated on you, long before you wrote he cheated on you I had the sense that you were a better catch than he was. I have this same sense with poetry guy.

I hope for the best for you and believe, with all I've written above, this could work out for you if you are willing to take on the role he wants you to assume. I'd not be game for it but that's just me.

Be true to yourself, but don't allow yourself to believe this guy is someone he is not. Seems to me this guy's a project. But, if he's a project you like working on, then it may work great for the two of you!

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by LivingWaterPlease

[Gaeta]

8 hours ago, poppyfields said:

 

And then for him to use that as justification as to why YOU should be initiating the second meet?   To show equal effort?

Equal to what, HIS inappropriateness for spilling his feels during and after the first meet?

He did not use anything. As l said it's *my theory*. I did not perceive it as over spill. His conversations have substance. 

[Gaeta]

I don't view him as a project. He's self employed, a bit workaholic, he's not new here so doesn't need l hold his hand. 

I will ask him about if l had not invited.

[Gaeta]

3 hours ago, beentheredonethat77 said:

- .. but cultural differences could definitely be a factor here.. (my American / Australian friends would cringe audibly if they heard what some of the things my lovely European boyfriend said..we ended when he sadly passed away.. but he was pure of heart, sensitive and romantic.. yet loyal to his 

My sympathies for your loss.

Yes him and l are of different culture. He's born in Haiti, came here as a child. It's an old France colony. They master my native language at a higher level, and this guy here has a high level of education as well. 

[cleverusername]

28 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I don't view him as a project. He's self employed, a bit workaholic, he's not new here so doesn't need l hold his hand. 

I will ask him about if l had not invited.

This guy is an emotional project, an emotional flower. You will need to water it every day, make sure it gets enough sun, and make sure the storms don't blow it over...... just know what you're getting yourself into.

[introverted1]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Yes him and l are of different culture. He's born in Haiti, came here as a child. It's an old France colony. They master my native language at a higher level, and this guy here has a high level of education as well. 

Was your ex also from Haiti?

[Gaeta]

5 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Was your ex also from Haiti?

No, born in guadeloup but lived 30 years in France.