Should I inititate the 2nd date?

[Happy Lemming]

In the end, you appear happy with this "poet" gentleman.  You are going on a third date.

If things end up working out and you date this guy long term, then all of this "2nd date" issue will be a "small blip on the radar" that will be forgotten.

Is this "2nd date" thing the only issue/problem??  If so, continue forward and see where it goes.

There is the old saying about "a lid for every pot", maybe you found yours.

[AnnieB]

I get the passive aggressive/ manipulative/ insecure/ beta vibe from this guy from where I’m standing. I’d be wary as the progression of a relationship with such a man can be insidiously misleading.

I’ve been led down a painful path with this sort of man if only he had come out and directly told me he didn’t love me instead of me finding out overtime so to speak. 

The problem is they don’t even love themselves if only in a superficial way - cars, clothes, gym, things. They appear like a package, but they are shambles.

I really hope I’m wrong. Enjoy your dates and definitely keep dating others and only reward consistency and above the board behavior that makes you feel good and secure.  
 

[Gaeta]

These threads always develop a life of their own after so many pages. I remember posting about a man I was dating and by page 15 all members had identified him as an illegal alien drug smuggler cartel member.  The man just happened to not be being ready for a relationship.

[AnnieB]

10 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

These threads always develop a life of their own after so many pages. I remember posting about a man I was dating and by page 15 all members had identified him as an illegal alien drug smuggler cartel member.  The man just happened to not be being ready for a relationship.

😂

[Ami1uwant]

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I don't view him as a project. He's self employed, a bit workaholic, he's not new here so doesn't need l hold his hand. 

I will ask him about if l had not invited.

 

which guy is this?

 

is this a general last person you e dated thread:)

 

[Ami1uwant]

25 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

These threads always develop a life of their own after so many pages. I remember posting about a man I was dating and by page 15 all members had identified him as an illegal alien drug smuggler cartel member.  The man just happened to not be being ready for a relationship.

So drugs made him do it….

[Gaeta]

17 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said:

which guy is this?

is this a general last person you e dated thread:)

 

Just a guy I dated years ago. Not my ex. 

[Gaeta]

17 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said:

So drugs made him do it….

OMG lol. He was not a drug user. I said that to indicate how sometimes these threads go off rail and people imagine all sorts of things that are way off. 

[lana-banana]

You are right that these threads tend to off the rails, and fast. I am surprised at how much folks are extrapolating based on such limited details. Yeah, he gives me pause (I still think he's acting a bit weird, and the poetry doesn't seem authentic to me) but it's not like he's a serial killer.

A friend of mine would mention on every first date that "if this works out, you have four years to propose". Every time! I'm sure lots of people thought she was crazy or ridiculous, or a walking red flag or whatever. She ended up happily married to someone who appreciates how blunt she is. 

[Gaeta]

7 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I will ask him about if l had not invited.

He replied he would have come forward, he would not have let me get away. 

So I'm gonna let it play out. I am getting my second vaccine Saturday noon so chances are I won't be in the best of shape for a 3rd date this weekend. 

Meanwhile, I have a date with number 10 this Friday. He's a fun guy but I had to warn him I don't like sexual innuendoes at this time in the game. He's been good after that. 

 

[cleverusername]

32 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

He replied he would have come forward, he would not have let me get away. 

So this guy is a manipulator and insecure? Niceeeeeee.

Your life, but this guy should be at the very back IMO. At least the #10 or whatever had the balls to be direct, even if you didn't like the innuendoes. This guy not only didn't have the courage to just straight up ask you out, he manipulated you into getting you to do it.... but whatever.

[Gaeta]

9 minutes ago, cleverusername said:

So this guy is a manipulator and insecure? Niceeeeeee.

Your life, but this guy should be at the very back IMO. At least the #10 or whatever had the balls to be direct, even if you didn't like the innuendoes. This guy not only didn't have the courage to just straight up ask you out, he manipulated you into getting you to do it.... but whatever.

So, out of curiosity.

A woman wanting to go on a date with a man,  waiting 7 days for him to make a date invitation because she doesn't want to do it herself,  is not manipulation? But if a man does it it's manipulation. 

[cleverusername]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

So, out of curiosity.

A woman wanting to go on a date with a man,  waiting 7 days for him to make a date invitation because she doesn't want to do it herself,  is not manipulation? But if a man does it it's manipulation. 

It's the intent not the desire. He did it out of selfishness and insecurity. He waited purposefully to feel validated and forced you to do it for him..... this guy is so full of it. He wouldn't have let you get away? So how long did he plan to wait? Weeks? 

The point is, this guy is seeking validation and is insecure. This is the expectation from the start. The precedent has been set and you enabled it, instead of drawing a line in the sand like guy #10 with the innuendos, you gave this guy the OK to manipulate you for validation. This will manifest itself into the rest of the relationship. Current actions are the best indicator of future actions. 

And yes, playing games is manipulation. If I was interested I would not leave someone hanging for 7 days for an ego boost.

[Allupinnit]

Just an observation between this and other threads, but I notice that people often say "well nobody died" or "what can I say I'm stubborn!" when defending their questionable choices in dating.

And while all of those things may be true, over time you develop dating habits with those choices that keep you single or stuck in crap relationships because "what can it hurt, I'm lonely/bored."

You're right @Gaeta - it's harmless in the grand scheme of things to keep dating a guy who has already SHOWN you who he is despite his feeble excuses that it was ok.  It's your time and your mental bandwidth to expend how you want.

[Gaeta]

Ok I understand, I will drop him. 

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, cleverusername said:

It's the intent not the desire. He did it out of selfishness and insecurity. He waited purposefully to feel validated and forced you to do it for him..... this guy is so full of it. He wouldn't have let you get away? So how long did he plan to wait? Weeks? 

The point is, this guy is seeking validation and is insecure. This is the expectation from the start. The precedent has been set and you enabled it, instead of drawing a line in the sand like guy #10 with the innuendos, you gave this guy the OK to manipulate you for validation. This will manifest itself into the rest of the relationship. Current actions are the best indicator of future actions. 

And yes, playing games is manipulation. If I was interested I would not leave someone hanging for 7 days for an ego boost.

Well said, and hope it does NOT go dismissed.

Me thinks someone is wearing romantic blinders at the moment, which is understandable I've done same, but hopefully in time those blinders will come off and they will recognize what everyone else does.

I mean it's just so clear what this man's agenda is, I am actually surprised that @Gaeta, you're unable to recognize it.

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Well said, and hope it does NOT go dismissed.

Me thinks someone is wearing romantic blinders at the moment, which is understandable I've done same, but hopefully in time those blinders will come off and they will recognize what everyone else does.

I mean it's just so clear what this man's agenda is, I am actually surprised that @Gaeta, you're unable to recognize it.

He is a good looking dude...he gets a pass.

[lana-banana]

29 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

So, out of curiosity.

A woman wanting to go on a date with a man,  waiting 7 days for him to make a date invitation because she doesn't want to do it herself,  is not manipulation? But if a man does it it's manipulation. 

All right, I'm probably missing some more context here, but waiting an entire week to make plans with somebody you actually like just because you don't want to do it first is passive-aggressive in the extreme regardless of gender! Surely mature adults don't do that?

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

He is a good looking dude...he gets a pass.

Not in my world...

[poppyfields]

29 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

All right, I'm probably missing some more context here, but waiting an entire week to make plans with somebody you actually like just because you don't want to do it first is passive-aggressive in the extreme regardless of gender! Surely mature adults don't do that?

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but @lana-banana yes you are missing some context; what Gaeta's guy did was a bog standard "shyt test" there is no other way to describe it.  Calculating and manipulative.

I don't know why but I am having an almost visceral response to this man, like I can see so clearly what he's doing (just like how @cleverusername described).

I rarely use such language to describe men but imo he's a POS for pulling that crap with Gaeta; Gaeta you deserve so much better than that.

Wish you the best with #10 this Friday!  Enjoy. 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by poppyfields

[CaliforniaGirl]

5 hours ago, lana-banana said:

You are right that these threads tend to off the rails, and fast. I am surprised at how much folks are extrapolating based on such limited details. Yeah, he gives me pause (I still think he's acting a bit weird, and the poetry doesn't seem authentic to me) but it's not like he's a serial killer.

A friend of mine would mention on every first date that "if this works out, you have four years to propose". Every time! I'm sure lots of people thought she was crazy or ridiculous, or a walking red flag or whatever. She ended up happily married to someone who appreciates how blunt she is. 

I think the point is, people come onto LS because something is already wrong. 😂 So of course we will look for reasons for whatever is going on. In this thread, if Gaeta wasn't really all that concerned, if she didn't mind asking for the date, and if she wasn't puzzled by his behavior, she wouldn't have asked a lot of strangers what to do. Right? She would have just said "cool" and gone with the flow.

Since the person posting is the one who has actually met the questionable party, we have to assume the poster is getting some sort of vibe telling him or her, "something is off here." Again...of all had been well...she wouldn't have had to ask.

Then the drama of days of poems and no action, and now he says that was on purpose...well...is it all that weird that people think it's...all a little weird?

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

So, out of curiosity.

A woman wanting to go on a date with a man,  waiting 7 days for him to make a date invitation because she doesn't want to do it herself,  is not manipulation? But if a man does it it's manipulation. 

Who said that? I'm legitimately asking as I don't remember seeing it.

I know a few people way at the beginning of the thread said to ask him out, I was one of them, my idea was vetoed. 😂 You said you wanted him to ask...

A bunch of people advised you to just ask him out casually to see what vibe you got on a second date.

[Allupinnit]

I wonder if this guy knows his little game sparked a 15-page-thread on Loveshack LOL I bet he'd write a poem about it.

[poppyfields]

53 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Who said that? I'm legitimately asking as I don't remember seeing it.

I know a few people way at the beginning of the thread said to ask him out, I was one of them, my idea was vetoed. 😂 You said you wanted him to ask...

A bunch of people advised you to just ask him out casually to see what vibe you got on a second date.

Not sure if this is what you meant CG, but the point is not that Gaeta initiated the second meet, that's perfectly fine.

But rather that he intentionally sat on his a$$ for an entire week waiting for Gaeta to step up and "prove herself" by initiating that second meet.  And also that he told her that is what he was doing! 

I think maybe that is what we find alarming, that he was honest and actually announced he was manipulating her, not those words but he told her his intention.

That said, Gaeta has a point too when she said that women do this all the time and don't get judged for it.

I mean, how often do women intentionally wait for a man to ask her out again?   To "prove" his interest in her?  All the time!!

I spose the difference is men have been conditioned by society to be the pursuers and women have been conditioned by society to respond to his pursuit, but is this right? 

And also that women typically don't make a point of telling a man that she's intentionally doing this!  Like Gaeta's guy did.

I do think if a woman were to announce to a man "hey I wanted to initiate but I intentionally waited to see if you would step up and prove your interest," we (and the man) would see that as manipulation as well!  A shyt test.

I am still trying to reconcile this in my mind.  Logically, I know this double standard is wrong, but emotionally I still kind of see him as a manipulative you know what.

I need to think more about this.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

You should still be in "information-gathering mode," essentially picking up on cues and assessing him to see if he's a good long-term match for you.

You had a gut sensation something wasn't quite right about the poetry and the way he portrayed himself.

Keep looking into that for a while.

Do you get the impression that in his initial approach, he said all the "right things" without seeming awkward?