Should I inititate the 2nd date?

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

Would letting him know my free time considered showing my interest enough?

No. Sending a schedule is nonsense. Invite him (and pay) for the next date.

[Gaeta]

13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Keep in mind he is talking to and meeting more modern women who show interest, so you may be creating a self-fulfilling prophecy with this.

There are plenty of women online throwing themselves at men, yes I agree with that. 

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

No. Sending a schedule is nonsense. Invite him (and pay) for the next date.

You're killing me lol.

[Gaeta]

OH one detail. 

When we made contact online he asked for my number I thought he'd text me but instead he added me on whatsapp. At that time I could see when he was on whatsapp and his last time online. After our 1st date I noticed he disabled that option. I can see if he read my messages but can't tell if he's currently online or last time he was. 

[poppyfields]

I may get blasted for this, but this has nothing to do with a woman being "modern" ugh.

Men leading is strong, it's masculine, it's dominant (in a good way) and reflects confidence, and that is a TURN ON for many women. 

Not all but many.  

When a man sits on his ass, sending poems but taking no initiative or action to meet, it's passive and "feminine," which for many women is a huge YAWN.  Next. 

To be blunt, it simply doesn't get our panties wet, or give us "tingles." 🥰

Men (and some women) can argue with this until hell freezes over, but it's basic biology and goes back thousands of years.

I refer to my recent thread "Men Lead, Women Respond."

It becomes a huge problem when the women desires and actually needs the man to lead (in the early stages), and the man needs or expects her to lead! 

Instead of what should be a positive masculine/feminine polarity between the two, it creates a toxic polarization which leaves both frustrated, disappointed and on the road to never-never land with each other.

It's a sad state.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by poppyfields

[Happy Lemming]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Invite him (and pay) for the next date.

With a four day weekend coming up, I bet there are plenty of fun activities in gaeta's area.  Maybe send the guy some ideas (list) of items/activities of interest during this 4 day time-off.

I don't necessarily agree with @Gaeta paying for the date, but that is a minor detail.

[SumGuy]

16 hours ago, poppyfields said:

It's fine to be honest and say you had an amazing time, but that's NOT what he said.  He said he was on Cloud 9 and dreaming of their date.

Oh boy, I am not going to get all mincing his words into little tea leaves and trying to read them.    I'm sticking with expression that one is on cloud 9 to me is not over the top at all, jsut an expression that one had an incredible time, felt real connection, a rare connection.  And dreaming of the date, certainly have done it. 

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I don't view my attitude as jaded, I view it as realistic and grounded, it was the first meet.

I wouldn't call it either, more projection from your expereince.  The projection from my experience is different.  That is good though.  I would not want someone who judged me by my exuberance of expression.  Just because I may be exuberant doesn't mean have lost all sense, or unrealistic or not grounded, or planning marriage, etc.

Such expressions are over the top, but heck I know many women eat this stuff up, which is why men say such things, even when not knowing if they wish to see the woman again.  

Over the top for what you find attractive, fair enough and too each their own.  Which may or may not be OPs view.  Over the top or poetic?  Over the top or passionate?  Literal or a bit b hyperbole?   In my view it can be either way, so give my view of teh side where it is not over the top.   I consider it "jaded" to assume it is always over the top and always love bombing.  

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Even Gaeta admitted herself, he acted like "Prince Charming," which is a fairly tale!  😆

That is exactly one of my points!  That the only box a lot of people seem to have for such exuberance is "fairy tale."  That it just can't be real.  Sure it can.

Will get to it, but exuberance itself should not be judged right off as fairy tale in my view.  Follow-up actions (which may have in hindsight led her to so characterize) and other things (such as mirroring which to me is a far more yellow flag sign) give me pause to find something fake.

 

That does not mean I am jaded, to the contrary I am open, flexible, accepting and enthusiastic when I view their words and actions as genuine.

I mean if he's truly on Cloud 9, what the hell is he waiting for?

Well the last is a very valid point.  I agree, and gave what I can only imagine would be a reason for this disconnect.  Realize my comment as to jaded refers to how one views words, expression.  I do not think it is jaded to wonder WTF after all those words he didn't ask me out again.  More over if he is not interested why would he say such things.

Then again, have been around for decades and all sorts of things can happen, there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation, people think and feel differently, he may be thinking she should ask him (based on internet advice he is getting  ), who knows.

Know enough not to make assumptions and enough to know enough if like someone will ask them out even if they are acting "odd" in not asking me when all signs are they would.  Just wouldn't throw it away at this stage based on this.

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It's been said many times, interested people ACT interested, and by that I mean they want to spend time together, IN PERSON, texting/messaging is lazy and/or putting someone "on hold."

It goes both ways is the thing, especially here.  He could be getting the same advice and it would be just as legitimate.  He gave her all the signals she should ask, but she hasn't...guess she is not interested.   This is not some pattern of behavior over many, many dates or being AWOL in a relationship.  It's only a first date.  

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I do not advise asking him out Gaeta, let him lead in these very early stages.  You have only had one meet.

If he's interested, he will.  I think you know that too.

 

He may be hearing "I don't advise asking her out the second time, you asked her the first time now it is her turn.  If she is interested she will ask for second date."  

Now one may say I'd pass on a guy who thought or acted that way.  Fair enough.  That is not the hill, or filter, I'd let my interest die on but so be it.

I really don't think it is about if he is interested or not, I think we know he is, and would say yes to a second date. 

It really is as simple as reversing the genders here.  If a woman acted like he did, few would be wondering if she is interested and why she is not asking him out again.  (Admitted they would say she is love bombing as well)

I think it is more about who asks for the second date, that he is not fulfilling his "role" and letting him go if he does not.   If one agrees that is his "role" there is no question, don't ask him, and that is a perfectly legitimate way to filter....but don't fool yourself it is about "is he interested?" as he likely is, and very, and one can find out in 10 seconds by asking him, and yes there is the possibility one could be rejected. 

[poppyfields]

@SumGuythanks for your thoughts.

No sense responding other than to say I disagree with your thought process and invite you to read my last post (posted a few minutes ago), it explains why. 

Ciao.

[SumGuy]

15 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

...He doesn't sound like someone who needs a can-do take initiative partner, though anything is possible. But if he does want that, then his whole old fashioned gentleman, ladies are ladies, let me court you with poetry thing was fake. So let's hope not! 😂

I base the first on him having multiple small business, having had several myself can say you are inherently can do if you succeed, and such a person's average get things done is many peoples work their ass off.

I didn't get he explicitly presented himself as old fashioned, could well have missed that.  Did he say that or is that an interpretation from his behavior?  Can say I am not "old fashioned" in dating gender roles at all, but have done the poetry type thing when that was the vibe, though a rare vibe it is. 

In any event, just providing possible explanations for interest but no ask...I'm searching a bit here.  I swim in the pond where interested people ask, regardless of gender.  I've been asked for a second date and have asked..in fact it is very odd for me that if the first date goes well someone doesn't ask for a second before the first date ends.   

[clia]

Come on, Gaeta.  You've dated enough that you know better.  It's been four days since you went out with him.  And although he is texting you corny romantic poems every day, he hasn't made any indication that he wants to see you again or tried to make a plan to do so?  He sounds like a player and  time waster to me.  No, IMO you should not initiate the second date.  

[SumGuy]

15 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I've googled a few and nothing. Looks like he's a poet indeed.

Wow!  Impressive.  Maybe not the man for you but impressive.  

[SumGuy]

15 hours ago, Gaeta said:

...Ok so the consensus is he's a big player?

Not my view at the moment, too soon to tell.

But if he is, writing original poetry that sounds rather good is taking it to a whole other level.  Players I thought were about minimal investment.  Although words are cheap, writing original poetry is not easy or quick.  You may have just encountered an artist, and this is part of his "courtship" and expression.

[CaliforniaGirl]

15 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

I base the first on him having multiple small business, having had several myself can say you are inherently can do if you succeed, and such a person's average get things done is many peoples work their ass off.

I didn't get he explicitly presented himself as old fashioned, could well have missed that.  Did he say that or is that an interpretation from his behavior?  Can say I am not "old fashioned" in dating gender roles at all, but have done the poetry type thing when that was the vibe, though a rare vibe it is. 

In any event, just providing possible explanations for interest but no ask...I'm searching a bit here.  I swim in the pond where interested people ask, regardless of gender.  I've been asked for a second date and have asked..in fact it is very odd for me that if the first date goes well someone doesn't ask for a second before the first date ends.   

Well, from what I recall, what she loved was that he was gentlemanly and flowery. That's all definitely old-fashioned. Not bad, but old-fashioned. And again, as far as being busy, he doesn't seem too busy to send long poems. Since he is sending the texts with long poems, he isn't too busy to send a short one asking her out.

I feel as if you're taking this a little personally, to be honest. You keep referencing yourself. I however am referencing the OP and this man she describes, based on what she says.  She asked for input; here it is. And I believe it might be just a little hair disingenuous to skip past love bombing as a "thing;" it exists, it is certainly not definite in this case, but I can't see why this particular possibility is not allowed to be said.  Others are.

Hope this helps clear things up.

[Gaeta]

5 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

 You may have just encountered an artist, and this is part of his "courtship" and expression.

That was my first impression as he initiated our first contact with a poem, he didn't didn't start this after our meeting.

Also a month ago when he contacted me with another poem and l did not reply he didn't change his MO. He could have sent a 2nd message saying hello but didn't. That makes me think this is who he is and he's owning it.

[CaliforniaGirl]

11 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Not my view at the moment, too soon to tell.

But if he is, writing original poetry that sounds rather good is taking it to a whole other level.  Players I thought were about minimal investment.  Although words are cheap, writing original poetry is not easy or quick.  You may have just encountered an artist, and this is part of his "courtship" and expression.

The poetry is nice but he doesn't speak TO her; I think that's what's concerning some of us here. Technically I can only speak for myself, but I'm actually basing it off what someone else said. It clicked. She said he doesn't answer her questions. He may well have spent a lot of time writing the poetry. He is spending almost no time speaking to HER. As a person. That just makes it come off seeming pat and planned, IMO.

Time will tell.

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

I have a 4 day weekend coming up. Would letting him know my free time considered showing my interest enough?

I think he knows your interested (or should), especially if you respond positively to his messages, etc.   I don't think I can be much help in the "are they interested game" here.  From my view there is enough from both sides to "risk" asking the other out to simply and quickly answer the question.  At some point there is no substitute, someone has to ask.

It's not like if he was a barista and you are wondering if he is interested before first asking him out, in that situation yes we can parse the interaction to see how good of an idea it may be

If anything, I don't think there should be any worries here.  Just what you want, obviously keep your eye open (I'd hope that goes without saying) as you do barely know him.  Base on what I have seen here his behavior could be that of the most amazing romantic man you have ever met or could be a very creative, hard working and insidious player.  But as you discovered recently, just because a guy presents as reserved doesn't mean he isn't a perv who will reach under your dress and then down play it like it is something every one does.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

That was my first impression as he initiated our first contact with a poem, he didn't didn't start this after our meeting.

Also a month ago when he contacted me with another poem and l did not reply he didn't change his MO. He could have sent a 2nd message saying hello but didn't. That makes me think this is who he is and he's owning it.

Well then go out with him again. You really can't decide "what" he is either way, unless you actually know him. One thing, though. You mentioned he doesn't answer your questions. Does he EVER answer them? I mean do you feel like he's speaking "to" you and not just sending stuff he's written?

He certainly could be an artist, and that's wonderful, but if he isn't interested in getting to know you as a person, perhaps that's what's making you feel so hesitant and concerned. It's not like artists can't play games, or just use other people as their sounding boards. They're not above anyone or anything else, they just have a specific talent. I have a talent with words, too, but I'm not a perfect person by a very long shot.  ('Nuff said on that score...)

I think he probably is an artist, or at least a poetry appreciator. That's awesome. Unless you guys get to KNOW each other - by speaking TO each other - you've read some lovely poetry but that's about it. Not that that itself isn't valuable, but I mean...let's be real...you want more than to read someone's poems. You want (ultimately) a relationship.

I actually didn't read up yet to find out whether you guys made a second date yet. I hope so because you can't know anything, really, at this point - we are all just guessing.

Edited June 29, 2021 by CaliforniaGirl

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

No. Sending a schedule is nonsense. Invite him (and pay) for the next date.

I agree. 

Come on, just ask him out for an ice cream! What's the harm?

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

You mentioned he doesn't answer your questions. Does he EVER answer them? I mean do you feel like he's speaking "to" you and not just sending stuff he's written?

It happenned twice. Yesterday when he wrote to me & l mentionned the air conditionning being out at the office ( we are experiencing a heat wave too) he expressed concerns for my discomfort and suggested solutions. 

[SumGuy]

32 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

@SumGuythanks for your thoughts.

No sense responding other than to say I disagree with your thought process and invite you to read my last post (posted a few minutes ago), it explains why. 

Ciao.

No worries.  As you can probably tell not on board with your thought process re men and women, but that is fine.   On LS here it is more the process that gets you the people you are attracted to.   You are likely not attracted to people who think like me and vice versa.   

A times I try to give explanations of what someone else may, I emphasis may, be thinking as people actin all sorts of ways that they think send one message but send another.  Not that I think like them, but have made a large part of my life out of being able to see it from all sides, and how they see it, whether I agree or not. 

Other times, I can say from direct expereince that there a plenty of people who see it different, and assumptions made are just not accurate or certainly don't apply to everyone. 

Now if someone is not attracted to those who see it and live it different that is perfectly legitimate; it is just sad to me if people make decisions based on assumptions that may not apply or worse not apply to the people they are interested in.  

[Gaeta]

8 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I agree. 

Come on, just ask him out for an ice cream! What's the harm?

Yes but....

Our first date was dinner on him and l offer ice cream?

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Yesterday when he wrote to me & l mentionned the air conditionning being out at the office.

Oh, ok. He's not interested if he's sending you the same nonsense he probably sent his mother.

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

It happenned twice. Yesterday when he wrote to me & l mentionned the air conditionning being out at the office ( we are experiencing a heat wave too) he expressed concerns for my discomfort and suggested solutions. 

Okay. So he does speak to you. And in between he sends his poetry. Well, Gaeta, I think you know there are only two options:

1. Keep answering him even if it's not an answer to what's currently going on, and just wait however long for him to ask you out; he may or he may not.

2. Find a cute, fun way to ask him out to something casual.

3. Just don't answer.

The problem is that we can all offer opinions and experiences, but the bottom line is that you are not ever going to know who he really is unless you get to know him, and if you never even get to a second date, that can't possibly happen. So pick one option and go with it and then let us know what happens.

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Yes but....

Our first date was dinner on him and l offer ice cream?

Gaeta! LOL!!! Oh my goodness. Okay, not ice cream. Ask him to a concert. Ask him to a meal. I don't think that's really the part that matters, do you? Getting to know him is the part that matters, because right now, you have almost nothing to go on to gauge what sort of person he is.

[SumGuy]

17 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Well, from what I recall, what she loved was that he was gentlemanly and flowery. That's all definitely old-fashioned. Not bad, but old-fashioned. And again, as far as being busy, he doesn't seem too busy to send long poems. Since he is sending the texts with long poems, he isn't too busy to send a short one asking her out.

I feel as if you're taking this a little personally, to be honest. You keep referencing yourself. I however am referencing the OP and this man she describes, based on what she says.  She asked for input; here it is. And I believe it might be just a little hair disingenuous to skip past love bombing as a "thing;" it exists, it is certainly not definite in this case, but I can't see why this particular possibility is not allowed to be said.  Others are.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Oh of course bringing in personal stuff, just because it is direct expereince that applies.  Being a gentleman and flowery may be part of old fashioned, but being a gentleman and flowery doesn't make one old fashioned.  That's my distinction.  I guess in more modern parlance, his behaviors would be called respectful, mindful and artistic...same behavior, different names and perhaps different motives.

Think have made it clear I agree love bombing is a thing, and it may be happening, and do not think it is off limits, but why go there immediately?  Also, one date.  Kind of too soon to worry about love bombing, at most a yellow flag not red.   Certainly keep an open eye, but I believe saying love bombing at this stage to say next is premature IF he is the kind of guy you are after and having him ask for the second date is not one of your filters.  Hence my current anti-love bombing stance.

There is also plenty of input on this is love bombing, he is not interested, what have you side.

There is potentially another side, another way to see his behavior that is more positive.  I can also identify with this guys poetic nature, I can't identify with him not asking her out again, but have known many artists who seem so outgoing sure and secure, who could well act the way he does, who inside are insecure messes.  Not a ringing endorsement I know, but they weren't players.  

This guy is a strong cup of tea to be sure, and I have gotten a bit afield of his actual behavior into more general dating philosophy. 

It does clear things up.  I think it is good OP has all of us to opine, hopefully not information overload.