Should agreements made to convince a spouse to have kids be maintained after the kids are born?

[Dad o Twins]

My wife and I met when we were 35yo. I was a poor struggling musician in my 20's, and a poor student in my 30's. Before getting married, my wife brought up the subject of kids and I said I didn't think that was in the cards for me, given my age, financial situation, and the fact that I had years left before I was done with school. She accepted that. After getting married and finishing my MSc, the subject of kids started up again. At 39yo and having just graduated, I said I didn't want to spend my newfound freedom (from studying for the past 10 years) taking care of kids; I didn't want to spend my newfound money on kids (I was starting to make a decent living for the first time in my life, though most of it was eaten up by student loans and debt); and I wanted to do some traveling, since I presumably would be able to do that now that I was earning a decent living (and btw, by decent living I don't mean rich, I just mean I wasn't poor). 

During one of those discussions about kids, my wife said that she made enough money to pay for a child by herself, and that at worst, she had plenty of money saved up that she could use if needed. She also said that she could take care of a kid by herself and I wouldn’t have to do anything, so it wouldn’t take up any of my time. She also added that this was extremely important to her and that if we didn’t at least try to have kids she would resent me for the rest of our lives. Given that she took care of my concerns (i.e. she would take care of them and pay for their care) I agreed to try and have kid. She soon got pregnant and we ended having… twins. Despite our agreement, I have taken care of the kids and contributed financially (as much as I could, given my student debts) since they were born, though I relegate most of the care to her (I’ve come to think of my contribution as about 33% on average). However, she has made it known soon after their birth that she expected me to do more – she thinks we should split this 50/50. 6 years later, this is still a source of intense friction between us. As the kids get older, time to myself to do the things I love has significant decreased to practically nothing. I haven’t played guitar in 5 years, I can barely get any quiet time to read, and when I do, she makes it known that she is not happy about it. I love my kids and wouldn’t want to live without them. But I would have been perfectly happy being an “uncle” to other people’s kids had she not insisted on having kids.

Anyway, I’m sure you can imagine that I could go on for pages with many other relevant details about this but I won’t bother; the above is the basic set-up for my question. Feel free to ask if there’s anything else you’d like to know that might sway your opinion.

Here is the question I for the forum: She says that it’s perfectly reasonable to have changed her mind after the kids were born and to say that our agreement was null and void (she tells me to just suck it up and take care of the kids), and that she now expects that the kids’ care should be split 50/50 between us? I maintain that given our agreement, primary care should be hers and that I already do much more than I was supposed to, so I shouldn’t constantly be asked to do more. I think it’s unfair for me to have to give up all the things I loved to do and made me happy to take care of kids I didn’t want (again, I love spending time with my kids, I just don’t want it to be the only I do all the time). What is your opinion?

[stillafool]

9 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

Before getting married, my wife brought up the subject of kids and I said I didn't think that was in the cards for me, given my age, financial situation, and the fact that I had years left before I was done with school. She accepted that.

 

10 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

She also said that she could take care of a kid by herself and I wouldn’t have to do anything, so it wouldn’t take up any of my time. She also added that this was extremely important to her and that if we didn’t at least try to have kids she would resent me for the rest of our lives.

Well your wife completely did a bait and switch on you.  Did you remind her of these conversations?

[jspice]

Your children deserve better parents. 

[FMW]

I think it was foreseeable that she would expect more than she claimed would be the case. She was working on you slowly, saying whatever she needed to to convince you to have children.

Now that the children are here, my opinion is that you should be equally involved time and money wise.  They are your children, they need your participation.  I would think that loving them would make you want that for them.

 

[BaileyB]

30 minutes ago, jspice said:

Your children deserve better parents. 

This is the truth.

My heart breaks for these children who didn’t ask to be brought into this world… You didn’t want these children and you don’t want the responsibility of raising them… You better believe your children know that and how do you think that makes them feel? 

[BaileyB]

45 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

I love my kids and wouldn’t want to live without them.

You wouldn’t want to live without them, you just don’t want the responsibility of raising them. 

 

[lonelyplanetmoon]

1 hour ago, jspice said:

Your children deserve better parents. 

Wow yes agree.  How about you split it 100%/100%?  That is what your kids deserve.

Your scrouge  attitude stinks!

I hope you think twice about your actions.  I bet your kids are going to be absent when they get older.  They know when they are not wanted.

Why did you not leave when she wanted kids and you did not?  You had a choice did you not?

it is your wife’s fault that you had kids? It is ok don’t take any responsibility… she “tricked” you.

 

[Dad o Twins]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

 

Well your wife completely did a bait and switch on you.  Did you remind her of these conversations?

I realize it's easy to think that, but I like think that wasn't her intention. She's said that she hoped that I'd fall in love with the kids and would want to dedicate my life to them. I did fall in love with them, but taking care of kids is just not something that sounds fun to me. And yes, I've mentioned it in the multiple conversations we've had about this but she just thinks I should suck it up and contribute as much as her. Which brings us to this post...  

[Dad o Twins]

1 hour ago, FMW said:

I think it was foreseeable that she would expect more than she claimed would be the case. She was working on you slowly, saying whatever she needed to to convince you to have children.

Now that the children are here, my opinion is that you should be equally involved time and money wise.  They are your children, they need your participation.  I would think that loving them would make you want that for them.

 

Yes, I agree I should have been less laissez-faire about it and really considered to what extend it would even have been possible, even if she did take full responsibility for them. But I can't change that anymore. And yes, as I started making more money I started contributing more financially because I could and I've been happy to do so. But it just sucks to constantly be told to do more...  

[Dad o Twins]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

This is the truth.

My heart breaks for these children who didn’t ask to be brought into this world… You didn’t want these children and you don’t want the responsibility of raising them… You better believe your children know that and how do you think that makes them feel? 

 

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

You wouldn’t want to live without them, you just don’t want the responsibility of raising them. 

 

I agree and I feel terrible about it. I try to do the best I can, but is your answer that I should be miserable for the rest of my life for giving my wife something she seemed to so desperately desired? Remember that having kids was her wish come true, not mine, so I'm thinking she should be happy to have kids rather than resentful because I don't want to dedicate my life to it. The alternative would have been to tell her: sorry, live without it, period (see my other answers for more on this). I should also say that I do take full responsibility for raising them (I do their school work, I teach them right from wrong, I potty-trained  them, fed them when they were babies, changed their diapers, etc), I just don't want to spend every waking hour playing with kids.

[Dad o Twins]

2 hours ago, lonelyplanetmoon said:

Wow yes agree.  How about you split it 100%/100%?  That is what your kids deserve.

Your scrouge  attitude stinks!

I hope you think twice about your actions.  I bet your kids are going to be absent when they get older.  They know when they are not wanted.

Why did you not leave when she wanted kids and you did not?  You had a choice did you not?

it is your wife’s fault that you had kids? It is ok don’t take any responsibility… she “tricked” you.

 

[ ]  When I make promises I keep them and I expect others to do the same. I agree that this being about kids makes it a more touchy matter, but I think your position is extreme. 

As to why I didn't leave when she said she wanted kids: It's interesting that you'd think that was my responsibility. Why wouldn't it be the responsibility of the person who wants kids to say, sorry, I want kids and I'll find someone who wants them? But to answer what your question should have been, we stayed together because she came to the conclusion that that being with me was more important than having kids.

And finally, I never said she tricked me into having kids. I just said I agreed to have kids under certain specific conditions and these conditions have been revoked unilaterally.

Edited July 2, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
argumentative

[Dad o Twins]

Reading some of these responses, I should say that our kids are loved, well taken care of, and we generally have a lot of fun together. My wife and I have just had a tough time finding a balance between her needs and my needs.

[BaileyB]

43 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

I did fall in love with them, but taking care of kids is just not something that sounds fun to me.

You should never have had children if you felt this way. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by BaileyB

[Caauug]

You have taken a good swat with a big stick at the hive with your first post.... 

2 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

She says that it’s perfectly reasonable to have changed her mind after the kids were born and to say that our agreement was null and void

Most normal pregnancies only involve one birth, twins would have changed any agreements somewhat.

2 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

she now expects that the kids’ care should be split 50/50 between us?

Time wise? Does she work also? She can't expect you to contribute the same amount of time in care as she does if you are working and she is not or not as much.

2 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

I think it’s unfair for me to have to give up all the things I loved to do and made me happy to take care of kids I didn’t want

I agree, somewhat. But you have the kids and you can't just put them back where they came from... You need some "Me" time to stay healthy, your wife also needs her "Me" time and the two of you will need your "Us" time. In history this is where the extended family came in.... Can you do a weekend trade off with another family in your group of friends, you look after theirs then they take yours for a kid free weekend once a month?

Unfair..... Life's not fair, get over it!!!

Incase you didn't notice evolution has made your wife's body for reproducing or having kids. This gives most normal women a very strong natural instinct (desire) to have children. And you expected her to just shelf all those emotions that it has taken evolution millions of years engrain in her? Noooo....

[BaileyB]

37 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

is your answer that I should be miserable for the rest of my life

I would have a very difficult time staying with a man who felt this way about his own children. It would be pure misery for me knowing that raising his children made my husband feel miserable.

You agreed to bring these children into the world and you are ultimately responsible for that decision. If you don’t have the interest or the maturity to parent these children, that’s on you. When they get older, your children will help you to understand what we do not…

Edited July 2, 2021 by BaileyB

[Dad o Twins]

1 minute ago, Caauug said:

You have taken a good swat with a big stick at the hive with your first post.... 

Most normal pregnancies only involve one birth, twins would have changed any agreements somewhat.

Time wise? Does she work also? She can't expect you to contribute the same amount of time in care as she does if you are working and she is not or not as much.

I agree, somewhat. But you have the kids and you can't just put them back where they came from... You need some "Me" time to stay healthy, your wife also needs her "Me" time and the two of you will need your "Us" time. In history this is where the extended family came in.... Can you do a weekend trade off with another family in your group of friends, you look after theirs then they take yours for a kid free weekend once a month?

Unfair..... Life's not fair, get over it!!!

Incase you didn't notice evolution has made your wife's body for reproducing or having kids. This gives most normal women a very strong natural instinct (desire) to have children. And you expected her to just shelf all those emotions that it has taken evolution millions of years engrain in her? Noooo....

Yes I agree that the twins things threw us both for a loop, and I wonder how much I would have contributed if we had had only had one. So I kind of see the twins things as a blessing in disguise, since I was probably more involved than if there had only been one, but at the same time it also made everything harder. So yes, the agreement was changed due to having twins, and she never had to ask me to do anything: like I said, I fed them changed them, woke up in the middle of the night, etc.

We both work full time (though she initially took 18 months parental leave), so we are taking mostly about nights and week-ends.

 Maybe unfair was a bad word to use, but I meant more about her changing her mind, not about "life". 

Maybe I should have been wiser about thinking she'd be OK not having kids, but like I said in another post, I think that was her decision to stay with me when she knew I wouldn't be interested in having kids. I could only make decisions based on what she told me... 

[BaileyB]

31 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

Maybe unfair was a bad word to use, but I meant more about her changing her mind, not about "life". 

 

31 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

I think that was her decision to stay with me when she knew I wouldn't be interested in having kids.

She gambled and apparently she gambled unwisely. No doubt, she was hoping that once you held your child that you would bond with your child and accept the responsibility and the joy that is parenting. That didn’t happen. You did what was required (I’ll give you that), but you have done so begrudgingly and with resentment. 

What she did was wrong. She made a ridiculous agreement with you that was deceptive and manipulative - she should have respected your decision and the two of you should have separated because your life goals were incompatible. When two people disagree about having children, the person who does not want to have children is always the deciding vote for exactly this reason - one should never be forced into being a parent. But, you stayed together and you both agreed to bring these little humans into the world. They are now both of your responsibility. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by BaileyB

[basil67]

Your wife's offer for you to be a disengaged parent was a spectacularly bad idea.  You may not like that she changed her mind, but the upshot is that the kids are getting a better deal with the new plan.  

Should care be 50/50 split?  I don't like working with the idea of counting who's doing what.  Instead, I would say that you should both simply be the best parents you can.

 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

I realize it's easy to think that, but I like think that wasn't her intention. She's said that she hoped that I'd fall in love with the kids and would want to dedicate my life to them. I did fall in love with them, but taking care of kids is just not something that sounds fun to me. And yes, I've mentioned it in the multiple conversations we've had about this but she just thinks I should suck it up and contribute as much as her. Which brings us to this post...  

Did she support you while you were studying?

Sorry but you seem like Peter Pan.

Your "agreement" is ridiculous because you're legally the father and responsible for them financially and to provide a safe environment including food, clothing, shelter, education,etc.

Even if you got divorced, you would be responsible for them.

You weren't a sperm donor so you can't legally pretend that's your role in this.

Perhaps it's time to grow up?

[basil67]

@Dad o Twins  Going back to you not having picked up your guitar in five years, it's important that both of you take time for yourselves.  I know it's busy, but you do need to take time out.

5yo kids should be in bed around 7:30pm, so after you've both finished the chores,  there should be plenty of time.  Granted, you'd need headphones (or a garage) so that you don't wake them, but there should be time.  Or if you play acoustic, you could have involved the kids.  Play some of your own stuff and involve them.  Kids don't need kid's music (mine were never told that The Wiggles etc could play in the car) so find some stuff of your own which they'd like and could join in with.

Perhaps your wife could afford a cleaning service to buy back some time?

[Caauug]

1 hour ago, Dad o Twins said:

I meant more about her changing her mind,

And you have never seen a woman do that before???

1 hour ago, Dad o Twins said:

We both work full time (though she initially took 18 months parental leave), so we are taking mostly about nights and week-ends.

Good, you both work full time. I was worried your wife was still SAHM... This means you are both getting out of the house for some of the day anyway. You need to take your wife away for a nice weekend (if you can with Covid), camping even if the money is tight, resort is better. Get away from the kids, the house and normal routines. Some place where both of you can express your feelings to each other and enjoy some much needed "Us" time and try to reconnect. Your resentment towards your wife is very unhealthy for you and your R, your wife likely is also harboring resentment towards you also. You need to do this before all attraction is lost. 

2 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

 My wife and I have just had a tough time finding a balance between her needs and my needs.

^^^^^This is important^^^^^ I guess you really have to ask yourself how important are your needs now, and can some of them wait until later? Like I said before, you can't put them back, they are your kids. If you are in a western country and you go the extreme route, leave your family, you will have child support. There goes a nice piece of your income.... and most of everything you have worked for up until now. If your wife is feeling the same as you, this might be what will happen if you want it or not. You say they are a blessing, even when she has child custody?

The better way is normally to try to keep your family together, work towards a mutual common ground (as common as it can get). Maybe even have kid free nights with your wife, you look after them Tuesday night and she lets you have Wednesday night for reading and music practice? You cannot turn back time, you can only work with what you have. You can't have your cake and eat it too as the saying goes. There has to be communication, give and take if this is going to work. Forget any long term agreements, play week by week or month by month and be as fluid as possible. Not every solution will work for everyone, but you are far better to try each one than sit and complain and let your family fall apart. What you have now is not working. 

Fact: In USA women initiate 70% of divorces. Do not ignore this, unless this is what you want!!! Divorce is never fare for the man when there are kids involved. Once Pandora's box is open it can not be closed.

[Donnas]

Looks like both of you wasnt fully honest day one.

She said stuff to makeyou agree and make kids qith her back then.Wrong!!!!

You still think like in your 20s.And the kids sure feel the rejection i feel reading you. and they see it.

Both of you are wrong for forcing your view about kids on eachother.Kids is a deal breaker. So you guys should have break up soon as u heard shewant kids.and youdont wantkids.

But the kids are here,So deal with it.

You are a adult now. Its time to accept adult life. Kids are for both of you to take care of. If you the only one working, she will be morewith the kids.

But sure u need to help. It should not sound like work.But something you do out of love.

Accept your new life and enjoy it.This is parenthood.Yoir time will be splited.

And some things u wont be able to do or less. Youcant stay same 20 years old" rock and roll, rock star"",at  your 30s and with kids.👀😳😭🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ifyou are the provider maybe on the weekends you do more with the kids so she can relax. Because she is a human to. And need some time to relax specially if the kids are lil.

If you got a great mom, she can help you guys also .

But know that kids are your responsability first!And at all times.

And how you are with them can show later qhen u old how they will be with you. If forced annoyed you are when ots about taking care of them, that may be also how they will be while changing your diaper....💡🙄✌️👀😭🤣☹️

 

[Wiseman2]

This doesn't seem to be about the kids, but more about contempt that your wife expects you to participate in the marriage more.

Forget the inane agreement. Talk about going to marriage therapy to address the real issues.

[Donnas]

And its crazy how you guys agree or even made that up that she gonna pay and do everything for the kids. Like where is the love??of two parents wanting to make sure rhe babys are taking care. Of.

Both of you need to invest everything also money in the kids. And once she said she got big money before marry her you guys should have go true eachothers finance and see who got debt ,how much money and so on .And still now that should be a topic, and how you guys gonna run it now that the kids are here.

Because simply, life change.people change. You cant walk on same shoes as 10 years ago either. So same plans and stuff of back then may not work now. Comunication is key.

And you dont wanna pay?what you doing with your moneyyyy all this time??????😳😳

And dont wait till a judge have to make you pay. They wont be soft on your pocket. Get a budget coach and revisit yall finance as a married couple. Not as two people with kids . How much we got toghater, how much gos where, who should buy the foods during the weeks or weekends and so on.

 

[lana-banana]

Your wife was so desperate for kids she made an agreement that most people would realize couldn't possibly work. Yes, terrible idea on her part, but she is also completely fair and correct that it's not a viable strategy for raising kids. Maybe she was wrong. It doesn't matter. It's not like you bought a car that wasn't a good fit. Focusing on what you said beforehand no longer matters because you can't ever go back to that life. These are your children and you have to grow up and shape up.

You sound like a coworker of mine whose wife is working hard to conceive. He spent a year trying to talk her out of it but now says he's "sort of come around" even though he keeps whining to me about how he misses travel and how he hopes the kid doesn't interfere with his personal life. If that is how you feel you shouldn't have kids, period. It's why my husband and I don't. If parenthood isn't something you want with your whole heart then don't do it.

But that doesn't help you out. YOU need to stand up and learn to be an involved, supportive dad, which means recognizing your wants and needs are no longer what's most important. Backing out is no longer an option and you have to approach this as a team. Counseling, both independently and as a couple, might help you understand and communicate better. If you can't hack it with your wife then you can go your separate ways but you can't choose to not be the children's father.