Should agreements made to convince a spouse to have kids be maintained after the kids are born?

[Dad o Twins]

8 minutes ago, stillafool said:

And as they grow older more fun to be had.  When you're an old man you'll be so happy you went though with this when you get all the love from grand kids; you'll have to look after! LOL

that's the hope... but at my age, I'll probably be dead senile before we have grand kids...  Unless they become teenage parents... oh god!

[introverted1]

18 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

thanks for your comments. I'm trying... but it's a hard pill to swallow. I knew none of this would change my mind, but in our last discussion/argument she suggested I ask around to people I know who they agree with and felt that people would side with her-- that she did nothing wrong (at least I think that's her position-- maybe she was just referring to me doing more). Anyway, so I thought I find forum online to ask the question and see. 

It's not so much that what she did was wrong as that it was ill-conceived and a good example of magical thinking.  Kind of like when a kid begs for a puppy and claims they will do all the training, walking, cleaning up messes, etc.  Parents know that's not how it's going to unfold in reality.  Similarly, your wife was pulling promises out of her ass in an effort to get you on board with the idea of kids.  Now that they are here, she has back-pedaled.  This should be no surprise, although it doesn't make it *right*.

Realistically, you are both "wrong": she for making a promise she knew she couldn't possibly keep and you for agreeing to a promise you knew she couldn't possibly keep.

To clarify my earlier response, I think you and your wife need counseling to get past this breech of trust and to discuss how you can be good co-parents going forward. 

[Tinyjaguar]

40 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

I agree, and they get all that from both of us. It is possible to not want to spend every waking hour with them and still love them and be a source of comfort and guidance to them.

 

I disagree, I think not thinking about finances before having kids is foolish. Kids cost money and you don't have any it'll be hard to take care of them and add stress on the parents. 

Of course kids cost money and, as a parent, you should do everything you can to provide for them. But that is not my point. As a mum and dad, you are in it together and the second you start bean counting over each others contribution, you are forgetting to put your kids first.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Tinyjaguar

[BaileyB]

8 hours ago, introverted1 said:

It's not so much that what she did was wrong as that it was ill-conceived and a good example of magical thinking.  Kind of like when a kid begs for a puppy and claims they will do all the training, walking, cleaning up messes, etc.  Parents know that's not how it's going to unfold in reality.  Similarly, your wife was pulling promises out of her ass in an effort to get you on board with the idea of kids. 

I was about to write that same example last night. It’s exactly what she did - “please, let’s have a baby. I promise I will care for it - you won’t need to do anything!” Most parents will see that for what it is - the fact that you believed her when she promised to finance and care for YOUR child is on you OP as much as it’s on her… As was said earlier, it was a spectacularly bad idea. She had an agenda when she proposed it. And, you had an agenda when you agreed to this cockamamie idea…

[Dad o Twins]

I've been thinking about all these responses all day and as the day went on I got more and more upset. I don't understand how people can just brush over the set-up for this like it was nothing and I just need to forget about it, though I agree that trying to figure out if it was ethical for her to that is moot at this point. I just think if it was any other scenario imaginable (one that doesn't involve kids), I would think that way more people would have called out her lapse in moral judgment instead of blaming me for it.

I also think that my trying to address everyone's misconceptions and concerns kind of took me off subject a bit. So to clarify: the kids are safe, loved, healthy, and happy. And we spend lots of time together: I am home for dinner every night and I never go out and very rarely do anything outside the house without the kids or the whole family. I do all their school work with them (by myself), drive them to school, and play with them pretty much every day; week-ends are variable but I drive them to their activities and go out with them regularly. I am more of a homebody so I am happy staying home with the kids most of the time, whereas my wife can't stand the idea of staying at home with the kids, so she prefers to take them out.

I'm not saying any of this to count who does what (and I'm aware that my wife also works hard to take care of the kids), but just to show that I am not a deadbeat dad that sits around and ignores his kids. I also say this because people are saying I need to take care of my kids but I am not sure what more I can do: am I supposed to do everything so she can watch TV all night or so that things are as easy for her as possible, no matter how hard they are for me? 

And just to clarify, I didn't start this thread to justify my not taking care of my kids or to ask if it was OK not to take care of them. I already know I need to take care of them. What I was asking was if it was reasonable for my wife to constantly ask for more. It just seems to me that the person who begged to have kids and said that heir life would be incomplete without them should have the wider shoulders, and not vice versa.

[ShyViolet]

This "agreement" is the most ridiculous and immature thing I've ever heard.  Did you really honestly think that you'd be able to have kids and be completely detached from them as a parent, with her doing 100% of the raising and financially supporting them?  Even if she was offering that, which shows unbelievably poor judgment on her part, did you honestly think that it could work that way?  You should have been honest with her and stuck to the truth which was that you did not want kids.  It was a mistake to bring children into this world when you really had no interest.  On her part, it was a bad decision for her  to pressure you to have kids when you clearly did not want them.  You both were not mature enough to be parents, but here we are.  Now you have to live with your choice.

[Dad o Twins]

I think I just had an epiphany in bed while trying to fall asleep. It's basically what some of you were trying to say but I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. Why should I have to make most of the sacrifices even though she's the one who begged for the kids: because that's the only way to have them be part of my life. It may suck and it may be unfair, but it really is the only way...

[Ha-ha]

2 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

I think I just had an epiphany in bed while trying to fall asleep. It's basically what some of you were trying to say but I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. Why should I have to make most of the sacrifices even though she's the one who begged for the kids: because that's the only way to have them be part of my life. It may suck and it may be unfair, but it really is the only way...

Yes. Exactly. The point to think about all these was way in the past, when she started by ‚pressuring' you to have a child. You agreed. You should’ve said no and went away. But it’s now time to move on. They children are here. You both need to do your best. Also, I like what others said about striking a new deal so that BOTH of you also get to do what BOTH of you want as part of your me-time. If it’s not realistic, suck it up for a few more years. 
 

i hardly comment on threads but your story strikes a chord with me and I am female. My sympathy. What she did was wrong, clearly, but too late for that now. You decided to stay and now it’s time to face the consequences, fair or not. The best way forward is to compromise. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

, I would think that way more people would have called out her lapse in moral judgment.

Ok, well it's not a jury trial. There was no "lapse of moral judgment".

It's a martial problem of distrust, resentment, contempt and ruminating about some absurd pact.

It's not unusual for busy parents to miss thier more carefree childless lives. 

Your situation could therefore be well understood by qualified therapists who see this common problem all the time.

Your battle is you want her to do 100% of the childcare so you have more free time for yourself but you're using this absurd pact to justify it.

You're hoping that using this inane scenario somehow justifies your "case", that you want more free time and less parental responsibilities.

It's simple. Your made kids with your sperm, therefore you're responsible for them. 

 

[Tinyjaguar]

The problem is that you needed to be convinced to have children when you didn't really want them. In using the financial argument against having them, you set yourself up for the agreement you had with your wife  which was horrendously flawed, and you now resent it because financially arrangement regarding having children rarely work out.

[Bittersweetie]

Reading through this thread, you bring up how resentful your wife is because she feels you aren't doing enough. And the resentment you have over the agreement you made comes through strongly from your posts. I'm not going to debate whether it's right or wrong that you or your wife feel resentful...each of your feelings are valid.

However, I will say: resentment is poison. Poison for you, poison for her, poison for the marriage. There was a time I felt so resentful of my husband...we agreed to move across the country. Then when we got there, I was unhappy, and he was working all the time and absent, and I grew resentful. Even though I agreed to move, the resentment grew and grew until it was part of everything: I blamed him for this and that and all of it. And eventually my resentment and anger and self-centeredness resulted in me choosing to have an affair.

Not saying that's where you're going. I'm saying holding on to resentment is unhealthy and ultimately brings no positives. At some point you will have to let the resentment over this agreement go or else it will just continue to eat at you. Is that what you want? 

And in regards to not getting enough me time as a parent: I feel like this is something 95% of parents deal with. My H and I talked about it and made a schedule that works for us. The schedule isn't set in stone and can be fluid (like if someone has a bad day, or if there's a global pandemic) but we communicate a lot to make sure we both are doing okay. And even then it's still not enough for me, I'm an introvert! But I know there's a time where my son will grow up so I accept how it is right now.  

[Dad o Twins]

@Berlin

Thanks for your comment.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Dad o Twins
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[Dad o Twins]

@Bittersweetie

Thanks for your comment. I agree resentment is poison and I can feel it taking hold of me at times. Hopefully now I can decrease how often this happens by remembering the end goal. Though it pretty hard to control when I think about the fact that she is getting everything she wants... I know , I also get the kids but it's not the same.  

Edited July 3, 2021 by Dad o Twins
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[Dad o Twins]

13 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Your battle is you want her to do 100% of the childcare so you have more free time for yourself but you're using this absurd pact to justify it.

You're hoping that using this inane scenario somehow justifies your "case", that you want more free time and less parental responsibilities.

If you read my last long post, it clearly and explicitly states that my goal is NOT

 

16 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

to justify my not taking care of my kids or to ask if it was OK not to take care of them... [but rather, to ask] if it was reasonable for my wife to constantly ask for more.

 

[ShyViolet]

22 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

 I would think that way more people would have called out her lapse in moral judgment instead of blaming me for it.

 

Both you and her, equally, had a lapse in moral judgment.  This was incredibly poor decision making on both of your parts.

Raising kids is a ton of work emotionally, physically, financially.  You have to give all of yourself.  You can't maintain the life that you had before.  That childless life is over and it's a new life now.  If you expect to maintain your independence, you are sadly mistaken.  You are in this and you have no choice now.  That "agreement" was absolute foolishness, it was a fantasy world and it never would have worked, so just forget about it.  

[Tinyjaguar]

12 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

Both you and her, equally, had a lapse in moral judgment.  This was incredibly poor decision making on both of your parts.

Raising kids is a ton of work emotionally, physically, financially.  You have to give all of yourself.  You can't maintain the life that you had before.  That childless life is over and it's a new life now.  If you expect to maintain your independence, you are sadly mistaken.  You are in this and you have no choice now.  That "agreement" was absolute foolishness, it was a fantasy world and it never would have worked, so just forget about it.  

Exactly, you need to do everything you can, not what you want. Parenting is a vocation not a hobby.

[pepperbird2]

OP,

I would suggest that you hash this all out with your wife. Don't let resentments build, because even though you may not be aware of it, kids can pick up n that sort of thing. Please do this while the issues are still relatively small. You never know what could be coming down the pike-as kids get older, all sorts of things crop up. Hopefully, it won't happen, but if you think your free time is being eaten up now, it will be 100 more intense if they are turn out to have special needs of one sort or another, if they become ill, fall in with a bad crowd, that sort of thing. 

I really believe that you and your wife can sort through this if you are both willing to keep an open mind and are prepared to listen. It won't work if one(or both) of you has a chip on your shoulder. If you can't do so, a counsellor can help. Having a neutral third party who can offer unbiased opinions and view points, is often really helpful.

 

[usa1ah]

6 year olds should be able to play on their own.
 

Start playing the guitar for them. 

[Tinyjaguar]

You will work this out, if you want to and keep an open mind. Forget ill-conceived agreements and ideas. You are both parents and it isthe kids that come first, not your pride or point scoring.

[OrbitalKat]

Your agreement from 6 years ago doesn't matter. It was a ludicros one. You're not a sperm donor who is single. You are a married father. Splitting care and effort 50/50 is what's expected and yes, it is fair, sorry cupcake. No, you do not have the right to expect anything else. You sound quite entitled for no good reason.

[Prudence V]

On 7/3/2021 at 7:36 AM, Dad o Twins said:

What I was asking was if it was reasonable for my wife to constantly ask for more.

No. She needs to acknowledge that she’s not keeping her side of the agreement, and approach a renegotiation from a point of humility, not a point of arrogance. She should admit that her thinking was flawed, and based on assumptions that she didn’t bother to check with you. Once she has admitted that her demands are not reasonable, then you can start to renegotiate a compromise that works for both of you (or leaves both of you feeling aggrieved to the same extent). But until she concedes that, renegotiation isn’t possible as your burden of resentment will get in the way. 

[Dad o Twins]

On 7/3/2021 at 9:41 PM, ShyViolet said:

Both you and her, equally, had a lapse in moral judgment.  This was incredibly poor decision making on both of your parts.

I agree with this more now than before this forum. Obviously, I had come think I should have just told her "too bad, deal with it" and dealt with those consequences (but then I would have had to live with the fact that I broke up my marriage, since she was promising tot take care of everything... sadly, we can never know what might have been), but not that the fact that I trusted her was on me.

 

On 7/3/2021 at 9:41 PM, ShyViolet said:

Raising kids is a ton of work emotionally, physically, financially.  You have to give all of yourself.  You can't maintain the life that you had before.  That childless life is over and it's a new life now.

This is also an issue with her: part of the problem here is also that she is trying to maintain her previous way of life. It always amazes me how many things she does that don't need to be done, but she does because that's what she used to do. And this makes things much harder on her than they have to be, and then she expects me to take on more because of it. I really do think she thought that taking care of kids was going to be easy and she has realized that it's not. In that sense, I feel she is totally not taking responsibility for her decisions, which makes it even harder for me to want to help her. I've suggested so many things to her that would help her and ease her burden and she doesn't accept any of them. But anyway, this is off topic... 

[Dad o Twins]

 

40 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

No. She needs to acknowledge that she’s not keeping her side of the agreement, and approach a renegotiation from a point of humility, not a point of arrogance. She should admit that her thinking was flawed, and based on assumptions that she didn’t bother to check with you. Once she has admitted that her demands are not reasonable, then you can start to renegotiate a compromise that works for both of you (or leaves both of you feeling aggrieved to the same extent). But until she concedes that, renegotiation isn’t possible as your burden of resentment will get in the way. 

Yes, and I've come to realize that is contributing to my resentment: the fact that she brushes by this like it's nothing and it's all on me. I have not heard one heart-felt acknowledgment from her that her decision was ill-conceived and/or that she didn't fully think this through. To me, it sounds like in her head, the only problem here is me and the only solution to the problem is for me to do more so she can do less. 

[Dad o Twins]

@Bittersweetie

 

Hi again, so it sounds like you and your husband are still together? How did you get over your resentment (if you don't mind me asking)?

[Wiseman2]

19 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

 

Yes, and I've come to realize that is contributing to my resentment. To me, it sounds like in her head, the only problem here is me and the only solution to the problem is for me to do more so she can do less. 

You two are in a major power struggle. How is that helping either of you backpedaling to some "agreement"?