Should agreements made to convince a spouse to have kids be maintained after the kids are born?

July 2, 2021

OP, I think you are getting hung up on the wrong concept. At this point, it is not relevant whether the agreement with your wife should still stand. You and your wife are no longer the most important parties in the agreement: your kids are. So even if everyone here 100% agreed that your wife is in the wrong, it wouldn't matter. Your duty is to your children at this point. They are here and they had nothing to do with the frankly reckless proposition you and your wife agreed to.

Someone mentioned counseling and I think this would be a good place for you and your wife to start. You need to figure out how to be the parents your kids deserve while also preserving some "me" time for both you and your wife.

Good luck.

July 2, 2021

9 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

I agree and I feel terrible about it. I try to do the best I can, but is your answer that I should be miserable for the rest of my life for giving my wife something she seemed to so desperately desired? Remember that having kids was her wish come true, not mine, so I'm thinking she should be happy to have kids rather than resentful because I don't want to dedicate my life to it. The alternative would have been to tell her: sorry, live without it, period (see my other answers for more on this). I should also say that I do take full responsibility for raising them (I do their school work, I teach them right from wrong, I potty-trained them, fed them when they were babies, changed their diapers, etc), I just don't want to spend every waking hour playing with kids.

Sir,

with all due respect, that's not what makes a dad. it deems to me like you really resent your kids. do you not think they cans sense that?

July 2, 2021

10 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

I just don't want to spend every waking hour playing with kids.

Well they are only little for a short time. Once they become teenagers they will start being more independent and then to college and they will be gone. It will get easier as time goes by. You may as well suck it up because there is nothing you can do about it now. It's mind blowing to me how many women think men are going to change how they feel about not wanting kids instead of choosing someone who wants a family the way they do.

July 2, 2021

11 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

She's said that she hoped that I'd fall in love with the kids and would want to dedicate my life to them.

This is a terrible gamble to make on the lives of children. Children deserve to be wanted by both of their parents.

July 2, 2021

13 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

My wife and I met when we were 35yo. I was a poor struggling musician in my 20's, and a poor student in my 30's. Before getting married, my wife brought up the subject of kids and I said I didn't think that was in the cards for me, given my age, financial situation, and the fact that I had years left before I was done with school. She accepted that. After getting married and finishing my MSc, the subject of kids started up again. At 39yo and having just graduated, I said I didn't want to spend my newfound freedom (from studying for the past 10 years) taking care of kids; I didn't want to spend my newfound money on kids (I was starting to make a decent living for the first time in my life, though most of it was eaten up by student loans and debt); and I wanted to do some traveling, since I presumably would be able to do that now that I was earning a decent living (and btw, by decent living I don't mean rich, I just mean I wasn't poor).

During one of those discussions about kids, my wife said that she made enough money to pay for a child by herself, and that at worst, she had plenty of money saved up that she could use if needed. She also said that she could take care of a kid by herself and I wouldn’t have to do anything, so it wouldn’t take up any of my time. She also added that this was extremely important to her and that if we didn’t at least try to have kids she would resent me for the rest of our lives. Given that she took care of my concerns (i.e. she would take care of them and pay for their care) I agreed to try and have kid. She soon got pregnant and we ended having… twins. Despite our agreement, I have taken care of the kids and contributed financially (as much as I could, given my student debts) since they were born, though I relegate most of the care to her (I’ve come to think of my contribution as about 33% on average). However, she has made it known soon after their birth that she expected me to do more – she thinks we should split this 50/50. 6 years later, this is still a source of intense friction between us. As the kids get older, time to myself to do the things I love has significant decreased to practically nothing. I haven’t played guitar in 5 years, I can barely get any quiet time to read, and when I do, she makes it known that she is not happy about it. I love my kids and wouldn’t want to live without them. But I would have been perfectly happy being an “uncle” to other people’s kids had she not insisted on having kids.

Anyway, I’m sure you can imagine that I could go on for pages with many other relevant details about this but I won’t bother; the above is the basic set-up for my question. Feel free to ask if there’s anything else you’d like to know that might sway your opinion.

Here is the question I for the forum: She says that it’s perfectly reasonable to have changed her mind after the kids were born and to say that our agreement was null and void (she tells me to just suck it up and take care of the kids), and that she now expects that the kids’ care should be split 50/50 between us? I maintain that given our agreement, primary care should be hers and that I already do much more than I was supposed to, so I shouldn’t constantly be asked to do more. I think it’s unfair for me to have to give up all the things I loved to do and made me happy to take care of kids I didn’t want (again, I love spending time with my kids, I just don’t want it to be the only I do all the time). What is your opinion?

Your deal was for one baby. She ended up pregnant with twins, which DOES make the original agreement null and void. If you think one person in a marriage gets to do less than 50% of the physical, emotional and financial caring of TWINS, then this is a sign that you have some maturing to do.

July 2, 2021

Sorry, but that agreement went out the window the second she got pregnant. Kids require care. Lots of it. You know that. It isn't about "who's turn it is". You both have to step up and do what's required. Quit showing resentment. It won't help. Forget about the agreement. She said that so you'd agree. Not cool, but that is in the past and your kids are here now and need you 100% (and your wife). That agreement didn't make sense then and still doesn't - and dwelling on it isn't going to change the reality your kids are here now. Keep dwelling on this and you are going to see them alot less (because you'll be divorced and have a bad relationship with your children). Accept your lot in life (because resistance is futile) and be the best Dad and husband you can be.

July 2, 2021

14 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

1) the subject of kids started up again. At 39yo and having just graduated, I said I didn't want to spend my newfound freedom (from studying for the past 10 years) taking care of kids;

2) She also added that this was extremely important to her and that if we didn’t at least try to have kids she would resent me for the rest of our lives. Given that she took care of my concerns (i.e. she would take care of them and pay for their care) I agreed to try and have kid. She soon got pregnant

3) She says that it’s perfectly reasonable to have changed her mind after the kids were born and to say that our agreement was null and void (she tells me to just suck it up and take care of the kids), and that she now expects that the kids’ care should be split 50/50 between us? ......... I think it’s unfair for me to have to give up all the things I loved to do and made me happy to take care of kids I didn’t want (again, I love spending time with my kids, I just don’t want it to be the only I do all the time). What is your opinion?

Man.... I can feel you on this. I met my exW when I was a little older, but back in college. We graduated, and I proposed. The intention was to move back to where I grew up, and get out of "Hillbilly" country. She agreed as she felt the people around here were generally of low intelligence. (not all, but she grew up in a small town) AND... Kids were not a priority to me at all. Well, after we got married, she didn't want to move. (strike one to me) and after getting school debt mostly paid, we bought a house (I let her pick it) and a few years after that, we had our first kid. (I was ok with that, but wasn't my priority) But after 4 years... and my daughter was sleeping through the night, and I wasn't changing diapers, and I saw a little freedom at the end of that tunnel... the exW had a crying fit saying if she didn't get a second kid, she would feel resentment towards me, and she wouldn't be "Complete". So, I gave in, and we had a second kid, but I made an agreement with her, that she would be the one to take the brunt of the work, and I wanted to be able to do some of my hobbies. As you can imagine... that wasn't the case. Yes, without a doubt, the exW was the one who was taking care of the kids in the middle of the night... and I had some freedom to do what I wanted (I will never discount my exW for that, as she let me do a lot) but there were a lot of times that I still was doing the work.

Anyway... let's look at the numbers.

1) I get it. I really do.

2) WOW... that sounds so familiar. LOL

3) OK... this is where it all falls apart. Yes, she can change her mind, and go back on her word. But you miss one fact... there are legal agreements that superseded her agreement to you. That is... you are legally responsible 50/50 for any kids you bring into this world. Since you are educated... you should understand that. I know it sucks.... but it's the truth. The only remedy for that is... you divorce, and write her a check every month if you don't want to deal with your kids... or take 50/50 custody and keep your money. (it's rough being a single dad) In those cases... you still have to deal with her... and if she is angry... it won't be pleasant. The other way is to realize you have a family, and enjoy what you have regardless of what was said in the past. I guess if I was in your position... I would work out a new deal that gives you time to read, and play guitar. (FYI... I'm looking at mine right now, and haven't picked it up in years)

I absolutely love my kids, and at this point I'm glad they are in my life. Enthought they weren't in my plan when I was young... I put myself in (legal) harm's way to support my oldest daughter during her mother's break-down, and the divorce that followed. I know you love your kids too... but you will resent your wife for what she has done regardless of what is said here, unless you can find a way to work through it.

I wish you peace in moving forward.

July 2, 2021

11 hours ago, BaileyB said:

They are now both of your responsibility.

Thanks for your comments.

July 2, 2021

11 hours ago, basil67 said:

Your wife's offer for you to be a disengaged parent was a spectacularly bad idea. You may not like that she changed her mind, but the upshot is that the kids are getting a better deal with the new plan.

Should care be 50/50 split? I don't like working with the idea of counting who's doing what. Instead, I would say that you should both simply be the best parents you can.

Thanks for your comments

July 2, 2021

10 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Did she support you while you were studying?

You mean financially. No. I started school before we met and I worked my butt off to put myself through school. I worked week-ends and summers, 2-3 jobs, and got in debt. I always paid my share of expenses.

July 2, 2021

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

5yo kids should be in bed around 7:30pm, so after you've both finished the chores, there should be plenty of time. Granted, you'd need headphones (or a garage) so that you don't wake them, but there should be time. Or if you play acoustic, you could have involved the kids. Play some of your own stuff and involve them. Kids don't need kid's music (mine were never told that The Wiggles etc could play in the car) so find some stuff of your own which they'd like and could join in with.

They are actually almost 6yo now, and I think that was about their bedtime last year. Now they go at about 8:30pm. I understand what your saying, but to be honest, after working all day and taking care of the kids all evening, all I want to do after they go to bed is decompress, not drain myself even more by being creative and working.

I've tried to discourage them watching Wiggles and that kind of stuff cause I can't stand it, so they've developed a pretty good taste for music. And they are getting to an age where they can actively participate in the music stuff (before this they just wanted to take the guitar away from me and play it themselves, so it was impossible to play with them around), and we have had a few "jam sessions" together, so I know it will get better.

July 2, 2021

Stop keep score. You are a father. Your children's welfare comes first. Raising children is not fun. Kids have needs & parents have responsibilities. Keep doing what you are doing & find out ways to get the other things done. Maybe you need a nanny but even with help you don't get to abandon the children you brought into this world.

Your wife was a fool to talk to you into this but do not make your kids suffer for both of your errors in judgment. The kids are here. Deal with them.

July 2, 2021

9 hours ago, Caauug said:

And you have never seen a woman do that before???

Oh come on, you don't actually think that's a good excuse, do you?

9 hours ago, Caauug said:

Your resentment towards your wife is very unhealthy for you and your R, your wife likely is also harboring resentment towards you also. You need to do this before all attraction is lost.

thankfully, we are very good at talking things out. However, this is one sticking point that keeps coming back.

July 2, 2021

15 hours ago, jspice said:

Your children deserve better parents.

Totally. Having kids is not just about who contributes what. It is about love, guidance, comfort etc.

Just remember, as soon as you become a patent, you are responsible for the life of another human being!

I.e. that child needs you

Edited July 2, 2021 by Tinyjaguar

July 2, 2021

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

This doesn't seem to be about the kids, but more about contempt that your wife expects you to participate in the marriage more.

Forget the inane agreement. Talk about going to marriage therapy to address the real issues.

You're right, I don't mind taking care of the kids, and the agreement business I brought up was mostly because what I do never seems enough. Maybe I need to frame this in a different way when we talk about this rather than bring up the agreement... We have been to therapy and I am currently in therapy trying to figure out how to deal with this stuff.

July 2, 2021

5 hours ago, lana-banana said:

You sound like a coworker of mine whose wife is working hard to conceive. He spent a year trying to talk her out of it but now says he's "sort of come around" even though he keeps whining to me about how he misses travel and how he hopes the kid doesn't interfere with his personal life. If that is how you feel you shouldn't have kids, period. It's why my husband and I don't. If parenthood isn't something you want with your whole heart then don't do it.

I hope you direct him to this site and make him read this...

5 hours ago, lana-banana said:

YOU need to stand up and learn to be an involved, supportive dad, which means recognizing your wants and needs are no longer what's most important.

As I've mentioned, I've done my part in taking care of the kids: midnight feedings, changing diapers, bike rides; I'm always home for dinner and I've participated in bedtime routines, teeth brushing, I'm the only one doing their schoolwork with them (they go to French school and she doesn't speak French... this was her idea to send them t French school). So it's not that I haven't been involved, it just never seems to be enough.

July 2, 2021

4 hours ago, introverted1 said:

OP, I think you are getting hung up on the wrong concept. At this point, it is not relevant whether the agreement with your wife should still stand. You and your wife are no longer the most important parties in the agreement: your kids are. So even if everyone here 100% agreed that your wife is in the wrong, it wouldn't matter. Your duty is to your children at this point. They are here and they had nothing to do with the frankly reckless proposition you and your wife agreed to.

Someone mentioned counseling and I think this would be a good place for you and your wife to start. You need to figure out how to be the parents your kids deserve while also preserving some "me" time for both you and your wife.

Good luck.

thanks for your comments. I think I addressed them in other responses.

July 2, 2021

4 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

You're right, I don't mind taking care of the kids, and the agreement business I brought up was mostly because what I do never seems enough. Maybe I need to frame this in a different way when we talk about this rather than bring up the agreement... We have been to therapy and I am currently in therapy trying to figure out how to deal with this stuff.

I wouldn't bring up the agreement at all. The fact that there was a financial element to agreeing to having children is not a good start. Although kids are expensive, and I should know, I have 6 of them, it should not be the motivating factor before having them.

July 2, 2021

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

Well they are only little for a short time... It will get easier as time goes by

Yes, I expect things will be more fun and easier as they grow up. But the waiting can be excruciating. On the bright side, things have already started being way more fun, so all is not lost...

July 2, 2021

3 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

it deems to me like you really resent your kids. do you not think they cans sense that?

I don't resent the kids, it's not their fault they're here. But yes, I have thought about how much they know and can feel... but thinking about my own parents, I don't remember what I sensed about how they might have felt about us when I was 5yo, so hopefully my parenting in the time they do remember will make up for how I might have felt in the first few years of their lives.

July 2, 2021

19 minutes ago, Tinyjaguar said:

Having kids is not just about who contributes what. It is about love, guidance, comfort etc

I agree, and they get all that from both of us. It is possible to not want to spend every waking hour with them and still love them and be a source of comfort and guidance to them.

8 minutes ago, Tinyjaguar said:

The fact that there was a financial element to agreeing to having children is not a good start

I disagree, I think not thinking about finances before having kids is foolish. Kids cost money and you don't have any it'll be hard to take care of them and add stress on the parents.

July 2, 2021

8 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

Yes, I expect things will be more fun and easier as they grow up. But the waiting can be excruciating. On the bright side, things have already started being way more fun, so all is not lost...

And as they grow older more fun to be had. When you're an old man you'll be so happy you went though with this when you get all the love from grand kids; you'll have to look after! LOL

July 2, 2021

2 hours ago, notbroken said:

Sorry, but that agreement went out the window the second she got pregnant. Kids require care. Lots of it. You know that. It isn't about "who's turn it is". You both have to step up and do what's required. Quit showing resentment. It won't help. Forget about the agreement. She said that so you'd agree. Not cool, but that is in the past and your kids are here now and need you 100% (and your wife). That agreement didn't make sense then and still doesn't - and dwelling on it isn't going to change the reality your kids are here now. Keep dwelling on this and you are going to see them alot less (because you'll be divorced and have a bad relationship with your children). Accept your lot in life (because resistance is futile) and be the best Dad and husband you can be.

Thanks for your comment

July 2, 2021

53 minutes ago, Blind-Sided said:

I know you love your kids too... but you will resent your wife for what she has done regardless of what is said here, unless you can find a way to work through it.

thanks for your comments. I'm trying... but it's a hard pill to swallow. I knew none of this would change my mind, but in our last discussion/argument she suggested I ask around to people I know who they agree with and felt that people would side with her-- that she did nothing wrong (at least I think that's her position-- maybe she was just referring to me doing more). Anyway, so I thought I find forum online to ask the question and see.

July 2, 2021

34 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Stop keep score. You are a father. Your children's welfare comes first. Raising children is not fun. Kids have needs & parents have responsibilities. Keep doing what you are doing & find out ways to get the other things done. Maybe you need a nanny but even with help you don't get to abandon the children you brought into this world.

Your wife was a fool to talk to you into this but do not make your kids suffer for both of your errors in judgment. The kids are here. Deal with them.

I always have the kids' welfare in mind and I don't take anything out on them (at least that's my goal...). My issue is with my wife's resentment towards me.

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Should agreements made to convince a spouse to have kids be maintained after the kids are born?

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