Should agreements made to convince a spouse to have kids be maintained after the kids are born?

[Bittersweetie]

4 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

@Bittersweetie

 

Hi again, so it sounds like you and your husband are still together? How did you get over your resentment (if you don't mind me asking)?

Yes, we are still together. My affair was 10+ years ago. In the time after d-day, we talked through everything in our marriage...not just the affair, but every single thing that one or the other had strong feelings about in the 15 years prior. My husband had his own resentments that had manifested in different ways. We came up with rules for our talk time, things like listening, talking respectfully, discussions that never lasted more than an hour. Basically we did our own couples therapy. It was hard and painful and we came out on the other side stronger both individually and together. I wish every day we'd gotten to that place without the deep pain I caused him.

One can let things go yet still recognize those things and learn from them. We did not sweep anything under the rug; we pulled it all out, recognized it, and made the choice to move forward. If either of us was still holding on to resentments from past actions, we would not be where we are today. Yes, it took vulnerability and humbleness on each our parts (especially mine) to get to that point. And now when something bothers one of us, we don't keep it to ourselves or hide it...we talk about it even if it's difficult or embarrassing. Which has really helped especially in this last year when we've all been home all the time.

Our son has been watching "Raya and the Last Dragon." In it she says, "Someone just has to take the first step." After d-day, I took the first step: I laid myself out in front of my H, vulnerable, humble, and absolutely terrified. He could've easily kicked me to the curb, and I would've understood. Instead he didn't, he tentatively gave me a second chance, and we moved forward from there and worked on us together. You and your wife seem to have a lot of resentment and anger toward each other over having your children...which one of you will take the first step toward healing? Will it be you?

Edited July 5, 2021 by Bittersweetie

[Dad o Twins]

On 7/2/2021 at 9:42 AM, introverted1 said:

Kind of like when a kid begs for a puppy and claims they will do all the training, walking, cleaning up messes, etc.  Parents know that's not how it's going to unfold in reality.

and @BaileyB

I agree. But if you allow your 30yo, ADULT child to get a dog on condition that they take care of it, I think it's reasonable to trust they will follow through with their promise; I would think most people would consider them irresponsible if they didn't and instead expected their parents to take care of it.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Dad o Twins

[Dad o Twins]

On 7/4/2021 at 11:10 AM, pepperbird2 said:

but if you think your free time is being eaten up now, it will be 100 more intense if they are turn out to have special needs of one sort or another, if they become ill, fall in with a bad crowd, that sort of thing. 

I actually think about this pretty often and it scares me to death. Although my wife disagrees, the kids have been absolute angels compared to what could have been. I don't think we would have made it if that had been the case. Anyway, knock on wood... 

[BaileyB]

12 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

and @BaileyB

I agree. But if you allow your 30yo, ADULT child to get a dog on condition that they take care of it, I think it's reasonable to trust they will follow through with their promise; I would think most people would consider them irresponsible if they didn't and instead expected their parents to take care of it.

Meaning, your wife didn’t follow through on her promise? I was not talking about your wife - I was talking about the exceptionally silly agreement that you made in which YOU decided to bring a child into this world with the belief that you would have no responsibility for the care or financial needs of the child. 

I’m curious - are you more interested in being proven right that your wife is wrong for having renegade on her agreement or having a happy family life? That’s what you have to decide, and it seems like you are really struggling with this. I’m not sure why. What’s done is done. You say you love your wife and you wouldn’t live without your children. Why hold onto this resentment? What is it that you are hoping to renegotiate? 

[Dad o Twins]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:00 AM, Wiseman2 said:

You two are in a major power struggle. How is that helping either of you backpedaling to some "agreement"?

 

I disagree (no surprise here...). I just want her to take responsibility for her decisions. Remember that in getting the kids, she got something that she always wanted and said she couldn't live without. I got nothing out of it. In fact, as many have commented, kids are a full time job; so in a sense, I sacrificed my life for her to have kids and I just don't think it's right that she should come down on me so hard. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy the kids- I do and I love them-  but it wasn't what I wanted. The only reason we have kids is because she wanted them. 

[Dad o Twins]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Meaning, your wife didn’t follow through on her promise? I was not talking about your wife - I was talking about the exceptionally silly agreement that you made in which YOU decided to bring a child into this world with the belief that you would have no responsibility for the care or financial needs of the child. 

I’m curious - are you more interested in being proven right that your wife is wrong for having renegade on her agreement or having a happy family life? That’s what you have to decide, and it seems like you are really struggling with this. I’m not sure why. What’s done is done. You say you love your wife and you wouldn’t live without your children. Why hold onto this resentment? What is it that you are hoping to renegotiate? 

Good question... And yes, I am struggling letting go of this. Of course I want a happy family life, but it's hard to achieve when it seems like all this is falling on my shoulders. I struggle with why I am the one whose has to bear ALL the responsibility for this and make ALL the sacrifices. So this may take time for me to get over. But blindly doing everything she tells me to do doesn't feel like a plausible solution, though it seems like the only acceptable solution to her as of yet. But I will say that I've made some strides finding peace and accepting the situation I'm in after reading your and other's comments. So this was actually helpful... 

[Wiseman2]

33 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

 in getting the kids, she got something that she always wanted and said she couldn't live without. I got nothing out of it.  The only reason we have kids is because she wanted them. 

Nice.

[Tinyjaguar]

36 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

I disagree (no surprise here...). I just want her to take responsibility for her decisions. Remember that in getting the kids, she got something that she always wanted and said she couldn't live without. I got nothing out of it. In fact, as many have commented, kids are a full time job; so in a sense, I sacrificed my life for her to have kids and I just don't think it's right that she should come down on me so hard. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy the kids- I do and I love them-  but it wasn't what I wanted. The only reason we have kids is because she wanted them. 

That is one of the most selfish things I have ever heard!

Kids are not a sacrifice, they are a gift. For the work you put in to a child the return is more that 10000 fold. You have a child, the most precious thing a parent could have!

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Dad o Twins said:

I just want her to take responsibility for her decisions.

In other words, you just want to be right. 

1 hour ago, Dad o Twins said:

Remember that in getting the kids, she got something that she always wanted and said she couldn't live without. I got nothing out of it.

Wow. Like I said before, I could not stay with a man who spoke about our children this way. 

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, Dad o Twins said:

I actually think about this pretty often and it scares me to death. Although my wife disagrees, the kids have been absolute angels compared to what could have been. I don't think we would have made it if that had been the case. Anyway, knock on wood... 

 You'd be surprised at what you can push througuh when you have to .

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, Dad o Twins said:

Good question... And yes, I am struggling letting go of this. Of course I want a happy family life, but it's hard to achieve when it seems like all this is falling on my shoulders. I struggle with why I am the one whose has to bear ALL the responsibility for this and make ALL the sacrifices. So this may take time for me to get over. But blindly doing everything she tells me to do doesn't feel like a plausible solution, though it seems like the only acceptable solution to her as of yet. But I will say that I've made some strides finding peace and accepting the situation I'm in after reading your and other's comments. So this was actually helpful... 

I'm getting the sense that you are looking at this bass ackwards....

Most parents are tired, stressed and feel a bit overwhelmed. They are always busy, but tehy don't do all this for their spouse-they do it for their kids to give them the best start they can at being productive, happy adult human beings. It doesn't sound to me like there's anything all that unusual about your parenting situation, and to me, it sounds very much like its is more a case of rebellion against a situation you don't like and feel is unfair.

What do you think a fair arrangement would look like? What would your wife do? What would you do?

Edited July 10, 2021 by pepperbird2

[Dad o Twins]

6 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

I'm getting the sense that you are looking at this bass ackwards....

Most parents are tired, stressed and feel a bit overwhelmed. They are always busy, but tehy don't do all this for their spouse-they do it for their kids to give them the best start they can at being productive, happy adult human beings. It doesn't sound to me like there's anything all that unusual about your parenting situation, and to me, it sounds very much like its is more a case of rebellion against a situation you don't like and feel is unfair.

What do you think a fair arrangement would look like? What would your wife do? What would you do?

I'd be happy if everything stayed the same but she stopped complaining about having to take care of the kids and implying that it's my fault if it's hard. 

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, Dad o Twins said:

I'd be happy if everything stayed the same but she stopped complaining about having to take care of the kids and implying that it's my fault if it's hard. 

So you want to continue contributing less and have her suck it up?  

[Tinyjaguar]

OP

While you seem to be aggrieved by financial arrangements etc, just imagine how infertile couples feel. You have what they can't, unless they make a massive investment in IVF, which isn't an option for some people.

[Wiseman2]

Why haven't you had the courage to speak honestly and openly about this?

Don't you think it's a little too late to be pissed off that you agreed to have kids?

[usa1ah]

15 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

I disagree (no surprise here...). I just want her to take responsibility for her decisions. Remember that in getting the kids, she got something that she always wanted and said she couldn't live without. I got nothing out of it. In fact, as many have commented, kids are a full time job; so in a sense, I sacrificed my life for her to have kids and I just don't think it's right that she should come down on me so hard. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy the kids- I do and I love them-  but it wasn't what I wanted. The only reason we have kids is because she wanted them. 

I disagree that you got nothing out of it. You love your kids and they love you. 
 

The situation is what it is. You can’t make your wife think or take responsibility for this. You need to stop focusing on the hardship this has caused and start turning your focus to what you can make of it. 
 

Start by getting the twins into what you like. Start teaching them to play guitar or something else. Get them involved and then joy it. Yes, glass half full not half empty stuff. 

[Bittersweetie]

I agree with Bailey, I'm getting the sense you want to ultimately be the one who is "right" in this scenario, above all else.

In the city where I live, pedestrians have the right of way in all crosswalks. I used to glance around and walk right out into them, because the cars have to stop, it's the law. One day my H was with me and he was like, WTF are you doing? I have the right of way, I said. Okay, he said. But would you rather be right, or be dead?

I feel like this is similar...you are choosing to try to be right, and be miserable in the process, and not choosing to accept how things are and move on. FWIW, I took my H's words to heart and walk more carefully in the city...I can't control other drivers and I'd rather be alive.

I also agree with Bailey on how you talk about your kids..."I got nothing out of it." Holy moly. Maybe you should just divorce your wife and be out on your own at this point if that's something you truly feel.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

22 hours ago, BaileyB said:

In other words, you just want to be right. 

Astute comment! You made me think. 

[Getting someone to acknowledge accepting responsibility = wanting to be right.]

[HadMeOverABarrel]

15 hours ago, Dad o Twins said:

I'd be happy if everything stayed the same but she stopped complaining about having to take care of the kids and implying that it's my fault if it's hard. 

Is it possible that she might be complaining just so she feels "heard" while you hear it and think she is demanding more from you?

It's not uncommon for women to complain to their men, the complaining being a stress release valve but not expecting more than a willing ear, while the men think she's wanting a solution or expecting some action from the man. In other words, maybe she's not expecting you to do more than listen so she feels better. How possible is that?

It's natural for men to believe they have to fix/do something when a woman complains, but it's not always the case. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Is it possible that she might be complaining just so she feels "heard" while you hear it and think she is demanding more from you?

It's not uncommon for women to complain to their men, the complaining being a stress release valve but not expecting more than a willing ear, while the men think she's wanting a solution or expecting some action from the man. In other words, maybe she's not expecting you to do more than listen so she feels better. How possible is that?

It's natural for men to believe they have to fix/do something when a woman complains, but it's not always the case. 

Let’s not forget that we have one side of the story here. According to this poster, he has stepped up and done more than expected and his wife is the one who is shirking her responsibilities. I would be curious to know what her perspective would be. He says - aside from this one disagreement, they live a happy family life. Perhaps, she would say there is no happy family life because of this one disagreement (can she be happy if she is aware that her husband has rather begrudgingly cared for his children and feels miserably trapped in his marriage/family). As is often the case on this board, I would be very curious to hear her experience of this situation…

Edited July 11, 2021 by BaileyB

[HadMeOverABarrel]

39 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Let’s not forget that we have one side of the story here. According to this poster, he has stepped up and done more than expected and his wife is the one who is shirking her responsibilities. I would be curious to know what her perspective would be. He says - aside from this one disagreement, they live a happy family life. Perhaps, she would say there is no happy family life because of this one disagreement (can she be happy if she is aware that her husband has rather begrudgingly cared for his children and feels miserably trapped in his marriage/family). As is often the case on this board, I would be very curious to hear her experience of this situation…

I think what's clear is there is a lack of communication between this couple which is leading to building resentments. 

OP, what's you plan to address how you're feeling with your wife? Sooner is better than later. 

[Wiseman2]

Kids are an adjustment for both parents. Twins are double that adjustment.

Marriage therapy could mend some of the frustration and resentment.

She's not "dumping the kids on you", there are suddenly two to take care of.. 

[submart]

I feel for you OP.  Your wife didn't want to resent you if she didn't get to have kids, but she didn't realize you would resent her if you did have kids. I don't know how or why she thought she could take on the expense/care 70% on her own and work full-time. That was unrealistic.  In most situations, you talk about this before marriage and the relationship ends. Or you talk about early in a marriage and the relationship ends and there is no part-time children or parenting. Even if you were divorced there is no part-time parenting. 

It's ok that you regret having kids a little and still love them to pieces. It is a taboo to regret having kids. But most people will never admit that they miss their old life and freedom very much. We are taught that kids make you feel complete and give you purpose. However, this is the case with only some people. 

There is a facebook group just for moms and dads who regret having kids. It's a wonderful support group where you can just vent when needed. It does't mean you don't love and care for your kids. 

My biggest suggestion for you is to consider signing your kids up for afterschool care programs and residential summer camps to give you a break from time to time. Also talk to your wife about giving you 30 min to unwind in your man-cave when you come home from work each day and then maybe 4 hours each weekend to go particiapte in your hobbies. Switch and give her 30 minutes each day and 4 hours each weekend. It will make you both happier. Good luck!