Mike_Lewis Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) Dear forum members, I'm looking for some advice, for which I'm grateful. English is not my first language, so please bear with me. I'm 36, married for 6 years, with 2 daughters (1 year and 3 and a half years). Our relationship started 16 years ago; we were both on college at that time. After finishing college, we lived together for 4 years. When we moved together, we didn't split the costs in half, I paid the bigger part (rent) and she would cover the rest. It happened once that while I was sleeping after a nightshift, she used my credit card without telling me. I noticed strange movements on my bank account and when I asked her if she knew anything she said it hadn't been her. I went to the police and when I was asked if it couldn't have been her, I stated that I would trust her, so I went on with the investigation process. A meeting was scheduled where they asked me for her to be present. Unfortunately, she didn't show up. I was furious but nonetheless took the decision to stay in the relationship. She never really apologized and only indirectly admitted it years later, since I would be "always talking about this old stuff". I thought all the time since the beginning of our relationship that she had studied veterinary medicine and had started her job as a vet. I would often drive her to farms or pet owners (so I thought). 3 months after we married, she told me she had quit the vet job and was now working in real estate. At the same time, she stressed that having studied veterinary medicine had helped her CV to stand out from the other candidates'. Again, I took the decision not to finish our relationship. Since we moved in and especially after marrying, I insisted we should get a common bank account where we could save up together. I'm still paying rent and n the meantime also all the other bills, since unpaid bills were often in the mailbox. We went looking for houses to buy and during all this process she would say she had saved up an amount of money from her earnings. Around that same time, she also asked me if I could stand as a guarantor to secure a loan for her sister. To keep up with our expenses, I took a part-time job. 2 months before our youngest daughter was born, I found out that she never studied veterinary medicine, that she had no savings whatsoever and even had tax debts, despite having decent earnings as realtor. I paid for her tax debts because this was all getting to much for me. I didn't say anything at the time because our youngest was to be born soon. When confronted with all of this, she says she felt so ashamed about everything and that she didn't want to turn her mistakes into our mistakes. About the money she kept from our family, the only explanation she gives is that she doesn't know how to deal with money. I had to insist for months to finally be able to get a copy of older bank reports and what I notice is a considerable amount of cash withdrawn from ATMs. The last months have been tough, we've living avoiding certain topics and something always seems wrong. She has never really shown interests for my hobbies, my successes in my career don't seem to make her proud, 3 or 4 months without sex are nor a rarity since a long time ago. I see divorce as a possible next step but I'm afraid about my relationship with my 2 little daughters. I'm grateful for your time and your thoughts on this. Edited July 4, 2021 by Mike_Lewis Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Does she have drug, gambling, etc. problems? Speak with an attorney. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 57 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Does she have drug, gambling, etc. problems? Speak with an attorney. Thanks for the advice. Not that I'm aware of, no, and there are no signs related to an addiction. I spoke to an attorney to be sure on where I stand legalwise. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Considering that disputes over money are the number one reason for divorce, I would say that’s where you are heading… that’s where I would be heading, before she destroyed my credit more than she has already done. I could not stay with someone who I could not trust, and I would not trust someone who had lied in this way… Good that you have consulted a lawyer. I’m sorry you find yourself in this position. My goal at this point would be to protect my own finances and my children. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Sun Seeker Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 So what exactly was she doing with all the cash she was withdrawing from the ATM? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 7 hours ago, Punterxx said: So what exactly was she doing with all the cash she was withdrawing from the ATM? I don't know for sure. She might have spent a lot on clothes and stuff; I also suspect she might be helping out her family without telling me. What bothers me most is the fact that she has not saved even 10-15% of her total earnings, which wouldn't be that difficult since I've been paying the major bills. Let alone having tax debts and all that. The financial aspect is obviously an important one, but I'm emotionally absolutely on the floor with all this discoveries I had to do by myself Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Mike_Lewis said: I also suspect she might be helping out her family without telling me. What is up with her family? Are they poor? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 19 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: What is up with her family? Are they poor? Not exactly but her father made a lot of debts. She says it's all paid up for now, but I don't trust that anymore Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 I'm worried about you going guarantor for her sister. Does it look like she'll repay the money? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, basil67 said: I'm worried about you going guarantor for her sister. Does it look like she'll repay the money? Thanks, I ended up not accepting, which was a fortunate move, since I didn't know about all the money issues (tax debt and no saved money) 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Mike_Lewis said: Not exactly but her father made a lot of debts. How so? Why not check all your finances, accounts and credit reports? An attorney can recommend a forensic accountant in cases where marital assets are being diverted and obscured. Is she from another country or culture? You seem aware of her financial activities as far as giving her family money. What exactly is the issue? As a married couple you have complete access to accounts, tax returns, etc. Why is it a mystery where the money is going when you cosigned a loan and you claim she's paying off her family's debts? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said: How so? Why not check all your finances, accounts and credit reports. Is she from another country or culture? What exactly is the issue? As a married couple you have complete access to accounts, tax returns, etc. Why is it a mystery where the money is going when you cosigned a loan and you claim she's paying off her family's debts? After insisting a lot, I had access to the movements in her account, which is something that really bothers me, as I would expect her to come forward by herself with this information after I found out. She is not from another culture. I can't be sure if she is helping her family or not, she never told me she was and I doubt that she would admit it anyway. But it is strange that her father made huge debts to a point where things got really difficult for him and now she seems not to have money on her own, while never allowing us to have a shared bank account as a married couple. Link to post Share on other sites
AMarriedMan Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 14 hours ago, Mike_Lewis said: After finishing college, we lived together for 4 years. When we moved together, we didn't split the costs in half, I paid the bigger part (rent) and she would cover the rest. It happened once that while I was sleeping after a nightshift, she used my credit card without telling me. I noticed strange movements on my bank account and when I asked her if she knew anything she said it hadn't been her. I went to the police and when I was asked if it couldn't have been her, I stated that I would trust her, so I went on with the investigation process. A meeting was scheduled where they asked me for her to be present. Unfortunately, she didn't show up. I was furious but nonetheless took the decision to stay in the relationship. She never really apologized and only indirectly admitted it years later, since I would be "always talking about this old stuff". This is where you should've stopped to consider the future of your relationship. It's sad how people ignore all kinds of red flags only to wind up in bigger trouble down the road. The biggest problem in your marriage is that you can't trust your wife. I think you should consult a lawyer to explore your options. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, AMarriedMan said: This is where you should've stopped to consider the future of your relationship. It's sad how people ignore all kinds of red flags only to wind up in bigger trouble down the road. The biggest problem in your marriage is that you can't trust your wife. I think you should consult a lawyer to explore your options. That's very true. And now I know it, to be honest, I knew it then. But I was in love, I trusted blindly and you know... I thought to myself I would never find someone as good, for all the good things than had happened before. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Cookiesandough Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) Yes , she’s a real con artist but there were many red flags you did ignore. A difficult lesson, sorry. Lawyer up Edited July 5, 2021 by Cookiesandough 3 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Divorce seems wise. All the lying is almost worse than the stealing / financial problems. If you really don't want to divorce, is she willing to go to MC, stop lying & learn financial literacy? Will she let you manage the finances & teach her? You will almost end up putting her on a type of allowance, after you do a budget together. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 29 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: Divorce seems wise. All the lying is almost worse than the stealing / financial problems. If you really don't want to divorce, is she willing to go to MC, stop lying & learn financial literacy? Will she let you manage the finances & teach her? You will almost end up putting her on a type of allowance, after you do a budget together. Yes, all the lying is definitely the worst part. Thanks for your advice Link to post Share on other sites
lil_missy Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) Hi Mike, Your story is so fascinating, and I don't mean it as if its entertaining or amusing. It must be incredibly hard for you. But I can't believe your wife made up to you all these elaborate lies spanning years. It reminds me of some of my husbands behaviour... Did she ever explain to you why she lied about studying to be a vet and working as a vet? I mean it seems unnecessary, it wasn't a deal breaker to you if she was or not? The taking lots of cash out is weird... if she's just buying clothes why can't she put it on the card? Especially its her own account she doesn't even hide it from you what she's spending on. My husband also took out a lot of cash from our account and he explained it to me that his just used to using cash which I never bought. And he could rarely account for where the cash went, that's the good thing with cash right? Traceless. It turned out he was using the cash to pay off debts that I didn't know about, some of it could have gone to drugs and definitely some of it went to gambling. do you ever see her buying alot of new things/clothes? If her income is decent and she's got nothing to show for it, it's is prob 99% the case she has addiction, drugs or gambling. Sometimes you can't see it when you're in it. But if her income is not much and you see actual goods she's buying then maybe she is just living beyond her means. Also if she's just helping out her family, and confronted with all this why doesn't she just tell you that? Honestly helping out her family is the best case scenario. What I learnt from dealing with my husband is lying is usually a major sign of addiction (along with money problems)They usually go hand in hand. I mean why else lie? Unless she is a pathological liar? I'm no psychologist and would have no idea why someone would lie for no reason. But to make up so many lies to you, that would be the deal breaker to me as I could never trust someone like that again. Everything she ever tells you, you will question. Edited July 5, 2021 by lil_missy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, lil_missy said: Your story is so fascinating, and I don't mean it as if its entertaining or amusing. I mean why else lie? Thanks for your advice. I've had people questioning if I made up this story, I mean, how could someone miss all this red flags. What destroys me from the inside is that I start to question myself more and more and it's like i don't know the person I married with, but also like I don't know myself anymore. You mentioned the psychologist and besides the lawyer, I already made an appointment. Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Yes, consult an attorney privately and confidentially. You can also check your credit reports, bank accounts, credit cards, tax returns, etc. It's unclear if you chose to turn a blind eye to all these disappearing funds, or only learned after the fact. You may need a forensic accountant if you can't simply find out from checking the obvious accounts. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said: It's unclear if you chose to turn a blind eye to all these disappearing funds, or only learned after the fact. I knew something was not right but chose not to see it until I found out about the dimension of the missing funds, the tax debt, the fake vet... Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 4 hours ago, d0nnivain said: Divorce seems wise. All the lying is almost worse than the stealing / financial problems. If you really don't want to divorce, is she willing to go to MC, stop lying & learn financial literacy? Will she let you manage the finances & teach her? You will almost end up putting her on a type of allowance, after you do a budget together. If you decide to stay with her, I would stop at nothing less than complete and total control of the finances. She should not have a credit card. She has lost the ability to independently manage “your” money. I would put her on an allowance and if she doesn’t like this - she can leave. It would feel terrible to do this to someone and no doubt, she will not like it… But, she has lost the privilege of managing the family finances/even her own finances if you are ultimately responsible for the debt she accumulated as her spouse. My days of trusting blindly would definitely be over… 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Harry Korsnes Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said: Yes, consult an attorney privately and confidentially. You can also check your credit reports, bank accounts, credit cards, tax returns, etc. It's unclear if you chose to turn a blind eye to all these disappearing funds, or only learned after the fact. You may need a forensic accountant if you can't simply find out from checking the obvious accounts. I wouldent do it privately bc she's not honest. The best for him is to be honest and tell her how he feels and explain how he's moving forward. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Mike_Lewis said: I knew something was not right but chose not to see it until I found out about the dimension of the missing funds, the tax debt, the fake vet... Ok, you're maybe guilty of being a bit blinded by love. And normal thinking, that when someone states they are studying or in a professional that that is honest. The depth of this ruse is rather astounding, no? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mike_Lewis Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 44 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: The depth of this ruse is rather astounding, no? It sure is. I'm beginning to think I was not only blinded by love but somehow didn't want to leave my comfort zone, at all cost. Wasn't worth it. Link to post Share on other sites
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