CaraGrace Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 I think I've always been a sensitive, caring and empathetic person. I've been a good listener and people around me like to talk to me and seek help/support from me about their problems. I've always thought that these are some of my good and precious traits that I really value. But in the past years, on and off I've been emotionally unstable due to stresses from work and personal life... I've realized that I complain and whine a lot to my friends and husband, and I know they're tired of hearing me whining over and over again (esp. my husband who would just zone out, not responding, or even ask me to stop talking). I've tried to remind myself not to talk about myself anymore, but I couldn't handle the stress and negative thoughts on my own - I need to vent. But then I would hate myself when I seem like a needy or even an emotion vampire when I feel that they don't want to listen anymore. Being an introvert, when I was younger I seldom talked about my own problems and feelings, not even (and especially) to my family members. I would say I am not particularly close with my parents and siblings, not that we have bad relationship but I think we are just not the expressive type, especially myself, I'm rather suppressive I would say... I don't really talk that much in front of them. And so I don't really have a support system. When I have problems or frustrations, I can only turn to the very few friends that I think I can confide in. My whining problem began when I started to work as a PR. I would say choosing to be a PR was my way to push/prove myself to become an extrovert because growing up, my introversion has always been seen as a flaw and weakness by people around me, including my parents. I thought it's a way to prove my ability and worth by doing something people deemed me as not capable of doing. At first it was fun and I actually loved what I do, but later after I've become more experienced and also taken up more responsibilities, I started to feel exhausted or even suffocated by too much workload, too many socializing and dealing with people (mostly difficult and unreasonable ones since I worked and dealt with celebrities and their agents/managers a lot). At that time, I whined a lot to my boyfriend (now husband) because we've moved in together and he was the only person that I would have the chance to talk to - I worked extremely long hours and very often on weekends and holiday and so I didn't have the time to meet up with my friends. But his response, as mentioned above, made me feel very bad because he said I was draining him with my negativity. Later I switched to a freelance PR and translator, because I couldn't handle the stress, long working hours and mostly, the feeling of being used and worthlessness I got from work. I also knew that being PR is not my thing - even though I was praised a lot by my boss, colleagues and press for being hardworking, detail-oriented, well-organized and thoughtful, I've never been the type who was liked by/got along with the celebrities and their managers on most of the projects I worked on. And their bad attitude or even disrepect towards me made my work really hard and stressful. I thought I could improve the situation by switching to freelance and also taking translation jobs (no need to deal with people) to get a balance, but turned out I felt even more stressful given that I needed to work much harder to prove my ability in order to retain current clients and keep new ones coming... I started to whine a lot to my friends since I did have the personal time to meet up with them more after quiting my full time job, and also knowing that my boyfriend was not willing to listen. But then I also started to feel that I was draining them with my problems (even though I did listen to theirs in return).. Recently, I started to read some psychology books and I found myself identified with the traits of HSPs (highly sensitive persons) and empaths, and I think that explains why I felt so overwhelmed or even suffocated by my job and the people I worked with. What makes it worse is my inability of setting boundaries (and thus the feeling, and also a fact, that I was always being used/taking advantage of). I started to learn to set my boudaries, not only at work but also personal life - turning down PR jobs and refusing to work with disrepectful people, as well as distancing myself from a friend whom I found out might be a narcissist who has been manipulating me into thinking I don't deserve/I owe her for what I have. I thought I was getting on the right track.. but while I'm focusing on my needs and feelings, and while my boundaries seem to hurt some people's feelings (e.g. the friend I mentioned above), I feel like I'm the narcisstic person here now... I think of the days when I whined a lot to my friends but now I'm shutting some of them off and I feel like I'm the one who used people and then run away after my needs are served... I feel good but also feel bad at the same time... I don't want to become the kind of person that I despise... Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, CaraGrace said: I started to read some psychology books and I found myself identified with the traits of HSPs (highly sensitive persons) and empaths, and I think that explains why I felt so overwhelmed or even suffocated by my job and the people I worked with. It seems like you could use a new profession. Start looking into that. Also as suggested, it may help to get some professional support: Link to post Share on other sites
Author CaraGrace Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: It seems like you could use a new profession. Start looking into that. Also as suggested, it may help to get some professional support: I did. I am no longer taking PR jobs now as I mentioned. And I don't know if psychological therapy/consultation is very common or covered by welfare/insurance in where you live (I know it is in some countries and I hear a lot from commentors here that they have a therapist), but in where I live it's not that common and also not affordable for people like me. It's like over $130 (if in USD) per hour's session. And my question here is not that my husband/friends are not listening, because I've learned that I shouldn't burden them with my negativity and I am learning to stop talking about myself in front of them... It's just when I'm cutting off some friends whom I think are narcissists and have zero empathy, and when they're mad that I hurt their feelings, it feels like I am also a narcissist because I don't care about their feelings now... Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 If you question that you could be a narcissist, then you're not a narcissist. The only thing I might suggest is not actually telling your friends that you're cutting them off because that just creates drama. Simply do a fade - if they suggest events, tell them you're busy and otherwise, don't reach out. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 I don’t know that narcissists have the insight to worry that they are narcissists. I don’t believe they would worry about other people and how they present in this way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Just now, BaileyB said: I don’t know that narcissists have the insight to worry that they are narcissists. Agree. Usually everyone else is the problem. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, CaraGrace said: It's just when I'm cutting off some friends whom I think are narcissists and have zero empathy, and when they're mad that I hurt their feelings, it feels like I am also a narcissist because I don't care about their feelings now... Well you're obviously cutting them off for a reason and since you will never see them again after cutting them off; just let it go and move on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 26 minutes ago, BaileyB said: I don’t know that narcissists have the insight to worry that they are narcissists. I don’t believe they would worry about other people and how they present in this way. Mostly true. Sometimes though, narcissists may have been told they are, or have logically figured it out. What they don't do is let their insecurities bubble up and interfere with how they feel and their grandiose self-image. Narcissism is a defense against insecurity, inferiority, and self-doubt. They convince themselves that they are superior, correct, and deserving of high esteem from everyone else. There are two types: malignant and covert. Covert are less grandiose and they do worry and allow insecurities to bother them at times. I seriously doubt that @CaraGrace is either. Link to post Share on other sites
MsJayne Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 We all have narcissistic traits, they're part of our survival skills, but to be a sociopath, (which is what a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder is), you have to be devoid of any empathy towards other people and be completely switched off to other people's emotional experiences. You would also dismiss other people's intelligence, and also you would focus on maintaining a delusion of possessing no flaws. If you're really worried, go see a psychologist and discuss it so you can stop worrying. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CaraGrace Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, basil67 said: If you question that you could be a narcissist, then you're not a narcissist. The only thing I might suggest is not actually telling your friends that you're cutting them off because that just creates drama. Simply do a fade - if they suggest events, tell them you're busy and otherwise, don't reach out. Too late.. months ago I confronted a friend about her problematic behaviours and how she made me feel bad, tried to express my feelings and let her know that I was not stupid (yes I was angry). I wrote about that here too so I'm not going to repeat, but yes drama ensured and she made me feel worse by telling me that I was the problem and even asked me to go to therapy for being overly and unreasonably sensitive. It bothered me for some time until I started to read about narcissism and learned that the best way to deal with her is to cut her off. But soon after, she was pregnant. Though I felt I was a terrible person, I refused to give her attention (I wrote about that too). She was quite mad at me at that time when she didn't get the attention or reaction she expected to get from me. I feel good and bad at the same time... I'm still trying my best to stick with my boundary against her now. She's already given birth to her baby now and she has stopped trying to reach out like she did when she was pregnant, since she probably knows what I'm doing and why. But when I think about how I used to whine to her or tell her my insecurities and frustrations, she did take her time to listen and give me the attention I needed (though she has used what I said to say things that always got me because she knows my insecurities which I told her myself), I feel like I am not returning the favour when she needs my attention. I can't stop thinking about what she might say behind my back, probably describe me as a narcissist too who always talk about myself and is an attention seeker (she always said I stole the limelight when I did absolutely nothing, just sitting there...). I do think I'm an attention seeker when I feel the need to whine, not being able to let my anger or stress flow.. I always need someone to listen and I need to vent, and that makes me wonder if I am a narcissist myself... Though I have been doing all that I can to cut off the source of my complaints and whining (PR jobs, narcisstic friend), I still don't think I can completely stop talking about myself/my problems, i.e. seeking attention. I feel stresses and anger as long as I still have to work with people, e.g. I turned down PR jobs but people who worked with me still want me to be in their projects so they let me be the copywriter, which I love doing, and at the same time made me kind of like a consultant to the new PR onboard - there are dramas which I'm not going to detail it here, but no matter how much I've told myself to let it be, I still feel the need to talk to someone about how the new PR is being so defensive towards me and denied my help, while other people are not demanding the PR to perform up to their usual standard but trying to get me do what the PR is not able to perform because they know I am the kind of person who see the big picture and can't stand seeing anything not being done right... I really have tried my best to swallow my feelings and I didn't talk about it to anyone for months until one day I couldn't take it more and I talked to one of my friends and also my husband (who again turned a deaf ear to me), and again it made me feel bad that I was talking about myself, draining someone's energy, and seeking attention - some of the things that my narcisstic friend does although I know for sure that I don't disrepect people like she does... I really don't have the support system that I need, and seeing a therapist just to whine doesn't seem necessary and is unaffordable too... Edited July 5, 2021 by CaraGrace Link to post Share on other sites
glows Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 You don't sound narcissistic at all, only very stressed out, anxious and possibly depressed. About the new PR, it's natural for new people to be defensive or overly confident. Make sure you document the instructions or the guidelines you're providing as a consultant. Email works. Outline what's expected for a specific project or item. This covers you and ensures that you're imparting the information to the new person. Leave it open ended so that he or she can approach you with questions. It doesn't matter really what his or her attitude is. Your job is to impart that knowledge so do so with clarity and document it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, CaraGrace said: seeing a therapist just to whine is unaffordable too... It seems you are confusing it with Histrionic Personality Disorder. Both are in the "dramatic and erratic" cluster B group. Edited July 5, 2021 by Wiseman2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CaraGrace Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: It seems you are confusing it with Histrionic Personality Disorder. I didn't hear about this before, just looked it up and I don't think I have HPD because I don't match many of the traits including "good at socializing" (I'd rather be alone than be with people), "want to be the center of attention" (sometimes my PR jobs required me to host events/speak in front of crowd and these are the things that I don't want to do most), act dramatically as though performing before an audience, with exaggerated emotions and expressions" (I'm mostly described as extremely calm, or even cold/aloof when I interact with people, especially at first impression)... So I guess I'm not HPD but I did (or perhaps still) crave for people's approval, probably because growing up I was never appreciated for being introverted or sensitive, my parents and teachers thought that I was deeply flawed in personality which made me seem like a lone wolf who didn't fit in with the peers. I was always told that I needed to become outgoing and sociable in order to be successful - and so I kept pushing myself to be extroverted so that I won't be seen as a complete failure... That's why my self-worth/self-esteem has always been built upon others' approval. But I guess only matching with this sign doesn't make me a HPD?? Link to post Share on other sites
Author CaraGrace Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 8 hours ago, salparadise said: Mostly true. Sometimes though, narcissists may have been told they are, or have logically figured it out. What they don't do is let their insecurities bubble up and interfere with how they feel and their grandiose self-image. Narcissism is a defense against insecurity, inferiority, and self-doubt. They convince themselves that they are superior, correct, and deserving of high esteem from everyone else. There are two types: malignant and covert. Covert are less grandiose and they do worry and allow insecurities to bother them at times. I seriously doubt that @CaraGrace is either. I'm worried that I'm a covert narcissist... What can I do if I'm one and when therapy is not an option (I really can't afford)? Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Ok. You don't have to be in the DSM5. However you seem very aware that you chew people's ears off with petty dramas and don't care about them or wasting thier time. This includes your husband, who's already told you to stop the emotion dumping. You're desperately seeking all sorts of labels. Introvert, narcissist, etc. Yet you have insight into the problem but refuse to help yourself or do anything about being selfish or attention seeking. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CaraGrace Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 8 hours ago, MsJayne said: We all have narcissistic traits, they're part of our survival skills, but to be a sociopath, (which is what a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder is), you have to be devoid of any empathy towards other people and be completely switched off to other people's emotional experiences. You would also dismiss other people's intelligence, and also you would focus on maintaining a delusion of possessing no flaws. If you're really worried, go see a psychologist and discuss it so you can stop worrying. What you wrote match with the friend whom I cut off... I think my mental health has been affected by her in the past 3 to 4 years when she has become more obvious in her behaviours and words towards me... Seeing how I've been manipulated and frustrated by her makes me become more self aware of whether I'm sharing some the narcissistic traits, be it overt or covert.. I cannot afford seeing a psychologist... And I think if I learn to better control my negative emotions to a level that I don't need to talk about it/vent to anyone, then no one would be affected by me as I don't need to seek support/attention from anyone.. but is it possible? And is it a bad thing that sometimes we need someone to talk to? Or we can only talk to a therapist...? Link to post Share on other sites
Author CaraGrace Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Ok. You don't have to be in the DSM5. However you seem very aware that you chew people's ears off with petty dramas and don't care about them or wasting thier time. This includes your husband, who's already told you to stop the emotion dumping. You're desperately seeking all sorts of labels. Introvert, narcissist, etc. Yet you have insight into the problem but refuse to help yourself or do anything about being selfish or attention seeking. I listen to my friends and my husband when they need someone to talk/vent to... so I'm expecting the same but I'm aware that they feel emotionally drained or don't like to further discuss the subject with me like what I do with theirs... You already assumed what I talked to them are all petty dramas... I don't know what in your definition is something that deserved to be talked about with your loved ones... does it have to be something about life and death? And all else are just petty dramas? What do you suggest me to do when I feel frustrated/stressed/sad by some daily events or people, in order to be a selfless person who doesn't need to seek attention? I'm finding the solutions here, and also from reading books... just that I really can't afford therapy in where I live... It's true that I only write here because I cannot and do not want to talk to my husband and friends anymore because I don't want to be "selfish" and "attention seeking".. But it seems I'm also being selfish and attention seeking by writing and asking questions here.... Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, CaraGrace said: when I feel frustrated/stressed/sad by some daily events or people. Find appropriate stress management. Hobbies, interests, sports, yoga, meditation, walking, volunteering, talking, classes and courses etc. . Does your insurance cover medical treatment? Why not see a doctor for an evaluation to rule out any medically treatable reasons you have poor coping skills. Perhaps part of the problem is anger. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CaraGrace Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, glows said: You don't sound narcissistic at all, only very stressed out, anxious and possibly depressed. About the new PR, it's natural for new people to be defensive or overly confident. Make sure you document the instructions or the guidelines you're providing as a consultant. Email works. Outline what's expected for a specific project or item. This covers you and ensures that you're imparting the information to the new person. Leave it open ended so that he or she can approach you with questions. It doesn't matter really what his or her attitude is. Your job is to impart that knowledge so do so with clarity and document it. Thanks for your suggestion regarding the new PR thing... Yes I did something similar to what you said, so everyone can see I've tried to help and contribute already... and whether the PR would listen/do what I suggested is totally up to her... I've kept reminding myself that I don't need and also don't have the right to control the outcome, which is on the other side of the boundary I set for myself on this job. I never told anyone that I feel offended by her defensiveness, I tried to keep it to myself and let it flow. But then the other people started to whine to me about how badly the PR is performing, and also told me how busy they are now having to pick up duties that the PR is not able to perform... which do make me feel like I should do more to help but at the same time I think they're kind of guilt-tripping me into picking up duties that I didn't agree/am not paid to do.. I felt frustrated by this (but probably I shouldn't), and I felt the need to talk about this to my friend and husband (but probably it's too petty a thing to be talked about)... I really find it hard to simply let things go and let things be... But actually, if I'm firm enough to believe and stick with the boundaries I set, I shouldn't feel frustrated by what they say or do.. I shouldn't feel bothered so easily... Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Everyone needs socialization and people to talk to. Some of the cruelest forms of punishment are solitary confinement, or being shunned by your own group. So you should quit trying to isolate and instead work on improving how you interact with others. Try not to exaggerate negative feelings within. Ask yourself, is this something that everyone must deal with, and if it is then it's probably not something your friends and family want to hear you go on and on about. Think in terms of good energy when interacting and try to be an uplifting source for others. Focus outwardly and don't sweat the small stuff. Joke and play and have fun. I know this is easier said than done, but positive/negative thinking and energy are habits to some degree. If you want folks to like you, you have to be mostly positive. Then when you really do need support you've got a network to rely on. My thought is that you probably would benefit from therapy, and should try and figure out how you can manage to get some. Many therapists have a special rate for a few clients without insurance or high income. There are also organizations that provide free or very low cost therapists. There is a possibility that you're depressed, and if it's from a chemical imbalance it can be mitigated pretty easily. If not, then learning new patterns of thought and self-talk may be the answer. The thing is that you've identified a problem that you haven't clearly defined, and you need some help with it. Be resourceful and I bet you can make it happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CaraGrace Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Find appropriate stress management. Hobbies, interests, sports, yoga, meditation, walking, volunteering, talking, classes and courses etc. . Does your insurance cover medical treatment? Why not see a doctor for an evaluation to rule out any medically treatable reasons you have poor coping skills. Perhaps part of the problem is anger. I do need to develop hobbies and interests and make them a habit... My insurance covers medical treatment but only limited to treatments I receive while having to stay in a hospital, which means it has to be something quite severe or involve surgery.. something physical... and so mental health or treatment is out of question. So I'm quite surprised when I read about people who are quite familiar with therapy and some psychology terms here, and this is one of the reasons I write here because you guys seem to be more insightful in pointing out psychological issues (if I write in local forums, people are usually being judgmental and taunting only... but here I've learned about things like narcissisms, or HPD... which pushes me to read and think more...). In where I live, I guess mental health is largely neglected and therapy is not common... Anger definitely plays a huge part in my problems.. Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Your health and mental health shouldn't be a DIY situation. Perhaps look into better coverage for yourself and your husband. If you are low income you can go to social services for help with Medicaid. Physical and mental health are both lifestyle and medical treatment. Researching trendy personality disorders is a not a worthwhile hobby and it's certainly not helping. Poor stress and frustration tolerance seem like something to look into because dumping on friends and googling trendy personality disorders seems to exacerbate feeling bad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, CaraGrace said: I'm worried that I'm a covert narcissist... What can I do if I'm one and when therapy is not an option (I really can't afford)? There are online cbt (cognitive behavioural therapy) programmes you can use, which aren't exactly an ideal replacement for therapists but which are affordable and recommended by the medical profession. You do have to be committed towards following them and doing the "homework" they require you to do, though. I'd suggest having a word with your doctor and asking if there's one they would recommend for you. As far as self diagnosing and labelling yourself goes...I really don't see what that's likely to accomplish for you, other than to make you feel worse. The worse you feel, the less time, energy and patience you're likely to have for other people - which could leave you with a mistaken belief that you're excessively narcissistic on account of reading so much about narcissism. Not a helpful self diagnosis to make at all, especially when this is a term so frequently used in a negative context. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Hard stop. Don't not try to self-diagnose mental issues. Get a trained doctor to do it. If you have condition get treated for it. With tele-health there are so many more options these days. Look into it. Mental health is not a self help thing. I doubt you are any of the things these books are filling your head with. You have insecurities like everyone else. You have always had poor boundaries & insecurities. As a result when you try to stick up for yourself, having no experience doing that, when others push back you internally crumble & think you are the problem. You need to learn skills so you can own your behaviors including the right to say "no." You can't change yourself from being an introvert (someone who recharges their batteries through alone quiet time) to being an extrovert (somebody who needs others to recharge). You are probably mis-using the words when you say you tried to change yourself by going into PR. You have have been shy & pushed yourself to be more outgoing which has nothing to do with being introverted or extroverted. Take on a new freelance gig & use part or all of the profits from that to pay for 10 weeks of therapy. It's sooo worth the money. Think of it as an expensive hair cut. You wouldn't DIY your hair would you? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Caauug Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 This could have been +3 threads.... Lots of points to ponder.... 17 hours ago, CaraGrace said: I thought I could improve the situation by switching to freelance and also taking translation jobs (no need to deal with people) to get a balance, but turned out I felt even more stressful given that I needed to work much harder to prove my ability in order to retain current clients and keep new ones coming... You were good at PR, you didn't like the pressure, translation also produces pressure... Most jobs do have pressure. Maybe look at managing that stress? I know what works for me, find out what works for you. Maybe exercise, yoga, cycling etc. Supply and demand: If you are that busy and stress is getting to you, up your rates. Done correctly, the work will drop off to a manageable rate with more income. Sell yourself cheap and you will feel abused. If you want to offer "Mates Rates", drop hours worked but keep hourly rate the same. 17 hours ago, CaraGrace said: (esp. my husband who would just zone out, not responding, or even ask me to stop talking). I've tried to remind myself not to talk about myself anymore, but I couldn't handle the stress and negative thoughts on my own - I need to vent. But then I would hate myself when I seem like a needy or even an emotion vampire when I feel that they don't want to listen anymore. I've seen this, but I was only living with them for a few months while at school.... She was a lovely person but was draining.... Her husband valued my defecting away from him. She just needed someone to listen, I did that and offered no feed back except a yes or an OK.... I don't know how her husband managed when I was not there... Your husband shows he cares if he is still listening, he zones out for his own protection (natural mental self defense). Don't knock him for that. 11 hours ago, CaraGrace said: I feel like I am not returning the favour when she needs my attention. I can't stop thinking about what she might say behind my back, probably describe me as a narcissist too who always talk about myself and is an attention seeker (she always said I stole the limelight when I did absolutely nothing, just sitting there...). Pufffff... Don't worry about what others think. Concentrate on yourself and your family first. the rest should fall inline. People come and people go and no one lasts forever... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts