We broke up over an ultimatum - I'm trying to talk to her but she won't talk right now - Looking for guidance

[Miss Spider]

17 minutes ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

Yes the ultimatum was either we get engaged within 2 years or we are done. I understand that she probably didn’t mean to impose it as such but yeah it happened. I always told her I wanted to marry her but the ultimatum blindsided me. I still told her I wanted to marry her just couldn’t give the guarantee within the 2 years she was requesting.

Take some time to consider it. I know of at least two happy marriages that started with the woman giving an ultimatum. In one, she needed the ring 💍, but the guy was nervous to commit so she walked. He could not bear to lose her lose her that much where he thought about it and went and got her in another state and proposed. They’ve been married over 30 years and he’s said it’s the best decision he’s ever made 🖤

So it’s not always all twisted. But again, do what’s best for you. If you’re certain you don’t want marriage in the next couple years, you should probably let her go, so she can find someone who does. You want to talk to her to see if there’s some bend, but she doesn’t want to. 

 

sorry, man. It is a hard decision. Life is full of them

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

Yes the ultimatum was either we get engaged within 2 years or we are done. I understand that she probably didn’t mean to impose it as such but yeah it happened. I always told her I wanted to marry her but the ultimatum blindsided me. I still told her I wanted to marry her just couldn’t give the guarantee within the 2 years she was requesting.

I must have read your original post incorrectly because I didn't realize she was allowing you TWO YEARS to decide.  That is a huge leeway, and now I understand what others have been saying and I agree with them.

Re the bolded, I don't understand this at all.  In two years, that will be SIX years you've been together!  And you still can't guarantee that you will be "ready" after six years?

I think you should explore the very real possibility that you have some serious issues surrounding commitment and take steps to overcome.

The story about my brother who took TEN years to decide?  

That's what he did.  There comes a point wherein you simply cannot deny that any longer and begin the work necessary to overcome, assuming commitment and marriage is ultimately what you want.  Not everyone does, which is OK too.

I now believe your ex did the right thing.

Let her go man, and work on yourself, good luck.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by poppyfields

[Mrin]

Sorry dude. I just don't see a way of rehabilitating this from your end. Your timeline just didn't match with her timeline. And, if you're dating a woman who wants to get married, your timeline is totally unworkable. I want you to know that. Your timeline. Is. Unworkable. Like when you start dating somebody else you probably should have a conversation about expectations.

Don't try to save this. Don't try to make any more grandiose declarations of love. And for Pete's sake don't propose. 

The only thing you can do is wait. And what you're waiting for is for her to end her next relationship/fling/whatever. She needs to get one dude past you before she can look back and accept you for who you are and by that I mean timelines and all. That she would rather have you as she did the not have you at all. And the only thing that is going to get her there is another dude. I'm sorry but that's the truth. 

Best of luck man.

 

Mrin

[Sun Seeker]

5 hours ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

Thank you for the reply. Not sure if I was unclear in my post, I did tell her I wanted to marry her and that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. I said to her it could be 2 or 3 years we would get engaged at most 4 but highly doubtful that long but she said i’m sorry I can’t accept that. 

You can keep saying the same thing but it still does not make any sense, just like it did not make sense to her. After being together 4 years, and even being given another 2 years, you still can't commit to marriage, then there is something very wrong in your relationship.

If you truly wanted to marry her, you would not need another 3 or 4 years, that's what you don't seem to understand. You are making excuses.

Start accepting that for whatever reason, you are not as committed to her as you thought. This is your gut telling you she may not be the one for you. Nothing wrong with that, but you should listen to it, instead of trying to force something that clearly you don't want.

[glows]

Give some time for the dust to settle. Letters aren't what she's looking for. That's very kind actually that she responded to your previous letter at all. There is also a likelihood that she knew you weren't on the same page for a long time and wanted an exit or reason to end the relationship. Marriage is not the be all and end all and it certainly isn't a requirement for a happy relationship so please don't buy into that if it's not for you. Again, give yourself time to recover from the relationship ending as it must be quite a shock to you.

Both of you just started your careers so I can understand your hesitation. Did you both ever talk about weddings or the kind of marriage you'd have? Focus on your career and don't blow it on a wedding if this isn't right for you or if the person or her suggestions raise any doubts. 

Take a time out to clear your mind and respect each others' space for awhile. I don't think this is worth pursuing and I'm not inclined to believe she's marriage material either. This isn't all on you. Time out. Spend more time with your friends and family and keep your career goals on track.

Edited July 7, 2021 by glows

[ExpatInItaly]

You two do not want the same things from each other, and she knows it. 

If after 6 years you don't know if you will be ready to get engaged (and not even married yet), well, this isn't the woman for you. Something is wrong there and she acknowledged it before you did. 

Time to let each other go. 

[elaine567]

You are not 24, you are 34. 
You have dated this girl for 4 and a half long years, how could you possibly be blindsided?

Women in long term relationships usually want marriage and kids.
You have now proved to her that you were just stringing her along.
When the chips were down and she needed a decision, you said no and made the excuse of "ultimatums"...
Ultimatums are often the last not the first resort, so this has been on her mind for a long long time.
The fact you were "blindsided" is a huge red flag in and of itself...

Next time when you meet the "love of your life" you need to make you intentions perfectly plain, you wasted 4 and a half years of this girl's life.
Thankfully she is still young but the next one might not be.
If you do not see yourself marrying till you are 35 and then some, then say so.

Women tend to want romantic proposals from willing men who love them and want to be with them forever.
Railroading a reluctant  guy into a vague promise of "sometime" is NOT romantic in the slightest.
She won't forget that disappointment  in a hurry, no matter how it ultimately turns out
Even if you married her tomorrow it is probably too little, too late.

You will never have what you had back.  
.My advice is to move on and leave her alone.

 

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

We dated for 4 1/2 years.  I'm 34 she's 25.  We moved in together 2 years ago because we both got jobs near each other, and it worked out well for our commutes.  

You did the right thing moving out. She didn't move in together for a test drive or playing house.

In her mind, moving in was a prelude to commitment, not an alternative to one.

Notice that you talk about convenience with regard to moving in together.

You're not compatible. She clearly wanted a future with marriage family etc. and you've coasted along and strung her along for years..

You're nearly middle aged. She's at an age where time is an issue with regard to marriage and starting a family.

There's probably no backpedaling from this.  Flowers won't buy more time to coast along playing house.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Wiseman2

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

Quote

He could not bear to lose her lose her that much where he thought about it and went and got her in another state and proposed. They’ve been married over 30 years and he’s said it’s the best decision he’s ever made 🖤

Yeah, I'm definitely at the point of not wanting to lose her.

Quote

If you’re certain you don’t want marriage in the next couple years, you should probably let her go, so she can find someone who does.

I do want to get married and to her.  I may not have at the time been 100% certain within two years that she was originally asking, and gave her a 2-3 year timeframe.  But now that she's gone, I've definitely do not want to lose her over this.

[Blind-Sided]

OK.... first of all... if you love her, and want to spend your life together... then you should have just said... "Yes, I'm sure we will be engaged within 2 years."

Even if you don't know... 2 years is a long time to figure it out.  I agree an ultimatum in a relationship is wrong... but in this case... she wants to know where her life is going.   She doesn't want to just "Date" and then find out when she in 30, that you don't want to be married to her.   As already said... it's a "s*** or get off the pot" kind of thing.

I'm sorry you are here... but because if the way it was handled... both you and her... it's time to just be done.  She obviously doesn't want to try to rebuild, as she feels you coming back now would just be lip service. 

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

5 hours ago, glows said:

Give some time for the dust to settle. Letters aren't what she's looking for. That's very kind actually that she responded to your previous letter at all. There is also a likelihood that she knew you weren't on the same page for a long time and wanted an exit or reason to end the relationship. Marriage is not the be all and end all and it certainly isn't a requirement for a happy relationship so please don't buy into that if it's not for you. Again, give yourself time to recover from the relationship ending as it must be quite a shock to you.

Both of you just started your careers so I can understand your hesitation. Did you both ever talk about weddings or the kind of marriage you'd have? Focus on your career and don't blow it on a wedding if this isn't right for you or if the person or her suggestions raise any doubts. 

Take a time out to clear your mind and respect each others' space for awhile. I don't think this is worth pursuing and I'm not inclined to believe she's marriage material either. This isn't all on you. Time out. Spend more time with your friends and family and keep your career goals on track.

Yeah I definitely understand to give it some time.  However, I've mentioned that I've tried to reach back out to her to try and reconcile our relationship and I would like to talk to her about our future and getting married.  It may be too late now as others have suggested, but I don't want to lose her (which probably already has happened) but I do understand have to respect the space and time.  Lastly, we never before discussed marriage or the kind of wedding we would have.  

 

[elaine567]

12 hours ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

understand she doesn't want to talk right now, but how much time do i give it before I reach out again? I want to respect her and her needing space, just not sure where I go from here. 

This is not about needing "space"., I think you have got that wrong, this is about a relationship that has come to an end.
A relationship that has no future, as far ,as she is concerned 
She gave you an ultimatum. You countered her ultimatum  by suggesting marrying in maybe 3 or even 4 years... did you honestly think she would be happy with that? As soon as you disagreed with her original demand/statement;  it was all over.
Ultimatums are ultimatums. The person giving you an ultimatum is not open to discussion or debate...that is not how it works.
An ultimatum is a final demand, the rejection of which results in a breakdown of the relationship.
It is now all too late.
In the weeks since you split, her resolve will have hardened

She told you she is moving on and she doesn't want to talk to you.
Believe her.

[Miss Spider]

Yep, ultimatums are not open to debate. That is why they’re ultimatums

[Wiseman2]

55 minutes ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

 I would like to talk to her about our future and getting married. 

Unfortunately empty talk and empty promises is sadly, why she ended things, so more of it won't win her back.

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

27 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

This is not about needing "space"., I think you have got that wrong, this is about a relationship that has come to an end.
A relationship that has no future, as far ,as she is concerned 
She gave you an ultimatum. You countered her ultimatum  by suggesting marrying in maybe 3 or even 4 years... did you honestly think she would be happy with that? As soon as you disagreed with her original demand/statement;  it was all over.
Ultimatums are ultimatums. The person giving you an ultimatum is not open to discussion or debate...that is not how it works.
An ultimatum is a final demand, the rejection of which results in a breakdown of the relationship.
It is now all too late.
In the weeks since you split, her resolve will have hardened

She told you she is moving on and she doesn't want to talk to you.
Believe her.

Would me trying to talk to her and discuss the timeline thing be appropriate at this time? I do not want to lose her and I would like to work on this with her and see if she would be willing to work this out and work on the timeline she's looking for.  I'm not saying that I would propose next week, but at least try and work this out and give her the understanding that I want to be with her and accept what she is looking for.  Like you mentioned it is probably all too late, but I would rather not want to look back and have no regrets.  I've come to the point of not being able to bear losing her

 

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately empty talk and empty promises is sadly, why she ended things, so more of it won't win her back.

I don't want to give her empty promises. I want to marry her and I would want to talk to her about the timeline she is looking for and work with her on that and let her know I don't want to lose her and to get engaged within her timeline.  It may already be too late to try this, but I'd rather not have any regrets and look back and say I should've tried.

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

I don't want to give her empty promises. 

After 4 years of dating and 2 living together surely you're aware that she expected a ring.  Backpedaling now is simply regret that you can't coast along anymore and that she needs to live her life how she needs to.

[elaine567]

Do you even want kids?
Getting engaged is just the first step, agreeing to an engagement to kick the can down the road would not be fair, If you are not "all in" with the whole "married with kids" thing...
And I don't mean just another "Yes sure, this year, next year, sometime, never" type of thing either.
You are going to miss her a lot, but if you are not prepared to truly commit wholeheartedly to her, then leave it be..

Some soul searching is in order.
What do you really want when it comes to the subject of marriage, kids, settling down? 
 

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

10 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Do you even want kids?
Getting engaged is just the first step, agreeing to an engagement to kick the can down the road would not be fair, If you are not "all in" with the whole "married with kids" thing...
And I don't mean just another "Yes sure, this year, next year, sometime, never" type of thing either.
You are going to miss her a lot, but if you are not prepared to truly commit wholeheartedly to her, then leave it be..

Some soul searching is in order.
What do you really want when it comes to the subject of marriage, kids, settling down? 
 

I definitely want kids, absolutely.  Her and I would talk about the kids thing randomly time to time.  but yes, I'm all in regarding married with kids.  

I am prepared to truly commit to her, without a doubt.  When it comes to the subject of marriage kids settling down, What i want is to marry her and to be with her, and as I express through this forum what happened, yes, my answer to her and timeline seems a bit foolish.  I never intended for it to come out like that to her.  I always expressed to her i want to marry her and she's the one i want to spend rest of life with.  I was never was intending to just string her along either, i always saw a future with her,  I just think this whole timeline thing wasn't as clear to me as it is now.  

I feel as though if i try to express this to her, maybe she will come back around? I don't know for certain, i may be too late already, but I also feel like if i don't do anything that's even more that she's gone.  I don't see her just coming back and reaching out who knows when.  She said she's not ready to talk right now, but that doesn't mean she will be ready eventually.

Edited July 7, 2021 by DarkestbeforeDawn00

[Miss Spider]

1 hour ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

 Lastly, we never before discussed marriage or the kind of wedding we would have.  

 

I feel for you. It sounds to me like she’s another one of those people. The ones that don’t really say how they are feeling until the end and it just comes all out because it was bottled up. If marriage hasn’t been brought up she was probably silently hoping hoping for after four years you would take a hint and plunged already. 
meanwhile, you thought all was well ? Did she  bring up any other problems in the relationship?
 

Anyway . I can see how this might have blindsided you and you might not have expected it. And you needed a little time to think about it. It may be too late though . Sounds to me like she wanted to be married /cuffed up yesterday.. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[d0nnivain]

1 hour ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

I do want to get married and to her.  I may not have at the time been 100% certain within two years that she was originally asking, and gave her a 2-3 year timeframe.  But now that she's gone, I've definitely do not want to lose her over this.

She gave you 2 more years for a total of  6 1/2 years to decide if you want to marry.  You are acting like you met this woman 5 minutes ago & she's on the express train to forever.  6 1/6 years is more than half a decade.  If you are unwilling to commit by then,  she has to move on.  

I gave some man my childbearing years & he squandered them by his foot dragging, like you are.  When I finally met a good man after wasting 11 years on a guy who wouldn't marry me, it was too late to have kids.  So I don't blame your GF one bit. 

You have already lost her.  It may not have been what you meant when you reacted badly to the ultimatum but what she heard was you don't love her enough to marry her.  Now she has concluded that she needs to get out if she hopes to have kids before 30.  Good for her for knowing what she wants.  At this point I doubt some empty promise or another conversation will get it done.  About all she's going to respond to is a ring.  Even then, she might resent the fact that she had to force your hand.  

Because you remain unsure after 4 1/2 years together & part of 2 living together the idea that you reacted so negatively to her ultimatum tells me you really don't love her.  For you to be so unsure this far in is not good.   I really don't understand why you left your apartment to "go home" in the pandemic.  Your home was the apartment you shared together.  To me that is further evidence that splitting is the better thing to do here.    

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

6 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

I feel for you. It sounds to me like she’s another one of those people. The ones that don’t really say how they are feeling until the end and it just comes all out because it was bottled up. If marriage hasn’t been brought up she was probably silently hoping hoping for after four years you would take a hint and plunged already. That was might have been a big incentive for her to date a guy your age vs closer to hers also. 
meanwhile, you thought all was well ? Did she  bring up any other problems in the relationship?
 

Anyway . I can see how this might have blindsided you and you might not have expected it. And you needed a little time to think about it. It may be too late though . Sounds to me like she wanted to be married /cuffed up yesterday.. 

Yeah, I do feel that it may have been bottled up, but then why give an ultimatum? Why not try to have a civil conversation about it first? I do agree my age for sure would think to get married faster.  I was saying before on the forum that I honestly didn't even realize the whole time frame thing and I was I guess overly comfortable with the way things were going? We didn't really ever fight, or have blow out arguments.  We got along so well! She never really brought up problems, only that my texting responses were too slow haha, which I do need to work on.  

Yeah  , may be too late.  That's why I'm trying to ascertain how and if I should go about tellign her how I feel and that i want to commit to her and truly not lose her.  I'd rather not have any regrets and say I tried.  I have tried to talk to her/give her that letter and she tells me she's not ready to talk right now.  It's been over a month, how long can i wait? 

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

8 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

She gave you 2 more years for a total of  6 1/2 years to decide if you want to marry.  You are acting like you met this woman 5 minutes ago & she's on the express train to forever.  6 1/6 years is more than half a decade.  If you are unwilling to commit by then,  she has to move on.  

I gave some man my childbearing years & he squandered them by his foot dragging, like you are.  When I finally met a good man after wasting 11 years on a guy who wouldn't marry me, it was too late to have kids.  So I don't blame your GF one bit. 

You have already lost her.  It may not have been what you meant when you reacted badly to the ultimatum but what she heard was you don't love her enough to marry her.  Now she has concluded that she needs to get out if she hopes to have kids before 30.  Good for her for knowing what she wants.  At this point I doubt some empty promise or another conversation will get it done.  About all she's going to respond to is a ring.  Even then, she might resent the fact that she had to force your hand.  

Because you remain unsure after 4 1/2 years together & part of 2 living together the idea that you reacted so negatively to her ultimatum tells me you really don't love her.  For you to be so unsure this far in is not good.   I really don't understand why you left your apartment to "go home" in the pandemic.  Your home was the apartment you shared together.  To me that is further evidence that splitting is the better thing to do here.    

She had requested an answer of yes or no, yes being she will get a ring within 2 years or no and we are done.  I wasn't given two more years to decide if i wanted to get engaged.  

I also did commit to her and told her honestly I do want to marry her and we will get engaged in maybe 2 or 3 years, I just wasn't guaranteeing her it would happen within 2 which she requested.

Yes we left the apartment and went home because we both live close to each other and we were living in a city where we did not feel comfortable being there when the pandemic hit.

[introverted1]

6 minutes ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

Yeah  , may be too late.  That's why I'm trying to ascertain how and if I should go about tellign her how I feel and that i want to commit to her and truly not lose her.  I'd rather not have any regrets and say I tried.  I have tried to talk to her/give her that letter and she tells me she's not ready to talk right now.  It's been over a month, how long can i wait? 

Unless you are going to show up with a ring in hand, I doubt there is anything left to talk about - you've already said it.  You spent three weeks saying it, according to your OP.  The message was received.

I think you need to be honest with yourself about what you want.  Even if you could come around to being engaged in 2 years, what does that mean for the rest of the timeline?  Would you be willing to be married a year after the engagement and then expecting a child a year after that?  Be realistic and fair to both of you before you think about writing checks that can't be cashed.

[poppyfields]

The ONLY way to "reconcile" this is to present her with a ring, and set a date within two years TOPS.  Ideally sooner.

You still have not told us why you're so hesitant.  What are you afraid of?

I've actually never heard of that.  I mean you say you KNOW you want to marry her, you are sure about that, so why the stalling? 

What do you envision about marriage that scares you so much?  Such that you cannot foresee making a decision within two more years?   

By then it will be SIX years together!  WTF.

You are 34, not 24 for goodness sake.😳

Do you know where your fear of commitment stems from?

Cause all your hedging, stalling, uncertainty, after so many years together, all points to that.

Anyway, as I said, all the "talking" in the world will not resolve this.  It's simply more stalling tactics and SHE knows that too.

If you are serious about knowing you want to marry her, stop the dilly dallying and present her with a ring and set a date.

That's the only way to successfully resolve this.

If you cannot do that, let her go.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by poppyfields