We broke up over an ultimatum - I'm trying to talk to her but she won't talk right now - Looking for guidance

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

5 minutes ago, S2B said:

After being with her 4-1/2 years - do you know exactly what she wants in an engagement ring?

I do have an understanding yeah but not 100% concrete on exactly what she wants

[Yosemite]

OP, is it correct that you’ve been broken for about 4 months now? 

If so, her feelings for you could be gone or badly damaged at this point. Even if she decided to take you back, the relationship would never be the same as it was. She feels that she was played for a fool and that you were never serious about her. She believed your lies (from her perspective) about you wanting to marry her and spend your life with her, but when it came time to back up the pretty words with actions, you ran away. She feels foolish for believing you and feels like she was tricked or duped.

Her parents have probably been warning her about you from the beginning because you’re so much older than her. Very few parents want their 21 yr old dating a 30 yr old man and they probably told her from the beginning that you weren’t serious about her and just wanted to use her up and then trade her in for someone younger. With those warnings ringing in her ears, she told you that she needed an engagement and you said no…proving her parents right.

If you go propose now, it looks like you dislike being single more than you dislike being engaged. Like you thought that you would easily find someone to replace her and after 4 months of trying, it’s harder than you thought it would be, so you decided to agree to her timeline because that’s better than being single.

If she was open to getting back together with you, she would have responded positively to the love letter and she wouldn’t have blown you off when you called her to talk. Instead, she said that she wished that you had said all that before…basically telling you in a nice way that her feelings had changed and it was too little, too late. 

4 months is a long time to be broken up, feelings start to die, and even when people do get back together with their ex, it usually doesn’t last. I don’t think it’s possible to salvage this

[Sun Seeker]

It's quite unbelievable that your idea of fixing things is 'agreeing to getting engaged within her timeline of 2 years'. Are you seriously that clueless? You still have made zero sense what the reason is for waiting another 2 years, instead of doing it now, if that's what your heart truly wants, as you apparently say you have realised, that she is the love of your life etc.

If you truly wanted to fix things, know you made a mistake, want to be with her forever, there's only one thing you should be doing. That's knocking on her door with an engagement ring. Anything else is just empty words and excuses.

Even then if she's smart she will see the only reason you changed your mind about her is because she had to leave you, not because you actually wanted to.

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

21 minutes ago, S2B said:

And you still standing firm on having two more years before marrying - that’s just not good enough at this juncture.

IF you really wanted to marry her - this weekend would be fine. But you still want more time - your stubborn nature helped you lose a good gal.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have it tomorrow.  I would.  I'm just saying that realistically, having a wedding this weekend wouldn't be feasible.  As I've mentioned, it's to the point where yes, clearly I didn't understand and see the full picture here and I made a mistake but not proving to her everything.  I would like to try and make this work and tell her I want to fully commit to her but I feel it may be too late

[basil67]

Yikes!  I didn't realise it had been four months when I wrote my advice.  Could be far too late.

[LynneVicious]

52 minutes ago, Punterxx said:

52 minutes ago, Punterxx said:

It's quite unbelievable that your idea of fixing things is 'agreeing to getting engaged within her timeline of 2 years'. Are you seriously that clueless?

37 minutes ago, S2B said:

STILL think offering marriage in TWO YEARS is ‘enough’ to get her back. No it’s not. 

Agree.  Op, considering it’s been 4 months and what ive seen you say in this thread, I’d say the only chance you have at this point is showing up, ring in hand, with research on wedding locations to boot.

You have to stop with the semantics of “she said 2 years but I’m saying 4 years...” and I’ve seen you post several times that you will marry her in 2-3 years...

To go to her and offer that will be insulting at this point. If you’re so sure she is the love of your life, you would have put a ring on her finger when she first asked. The fact that your tune seems to change throughout the thread means that I don’t think you really, truly want to marry her. 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

 I made the mistake of being too comfortable.

Where do you live now? Is it further from work or more expensive or do you live with family?

You'll be ok. You're just panicking about living on your own.

[Blind-Sided]

22 hours ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

1) Would me trying to talk to her and discuss the timeline thing be appropriate at this time? I do not want to lose her and I would like to work on this with her and see if she would be willing to work this out and work on the timeline she's looking for. 

2) I'm not saying that I would propose next week, ......

 

1) This happened to one of my female friends.   (Sort of)  She dated this guy for about 6 years, and waited for a proposal, and never got one.   So, she proposed to him.  SHe had to plan all of it, and asked him to help.  But he never did.  She had to find a house to buy, for them to live their married life... he didn't help, even though  she asked.  For the first 6 months, she asked him to step up and help.  He would say he was going to... but things never changed.  At about the 9 month mark... she started to pull away, and became "Separated" from him (sleeping in another bedroom)... and he almost didn't even care about that.   The entire time, she was telling him that she was leaving if he didn't step up and help, and be her "Husband".  To her, it was like he didn't even care... even when she wouldn't come home at night. (but to be fair, she was at a girlfriend's house) She felt like his roommate, not his GF or wife.   Once she actually filed for D is when he finally woke up, and decided to try to talk.   At that point... it was too late.  Not to mention... she knew that if she stopped the paperwork, it would just go back to the way it was. 

The point here is... I'm guessing that there has been hints, or other light discussion about your future together, and getting married, and you have ignored it.  And... as far as ultimatums go... this one was pretty light/easy.  She gave you a 2 year window to just be engaged.  Not married... just the promise of being married.  

2) Why?  You love her right?  You have already been together for a bunch of years... Right? You are an adult... right?   And it didn't have to be "Next week" according you your story... it had to be in the next 2 years.  You floundered, and she realized she needs to move on. (and I'm very sorry for that) 

It's time to move on.  I know it's sad, but you know it's the truth. 

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

11 hours ago, LynneVicious said:

Agree.  Op, considering it’s been 4 months and what ive seen you say in this thread, I’d say the only chance you have at this point is showing up, ring in hand, with research on wedding locations to boot.

You have to stop with the semantics of “she said 2 years but I’m saying 4 years...” and I’ve seen you post several times that you will marry her in 2-3 years...

To go to her and offer that will be insulting at this point. If you’re so sure she is the love of your life, you would have put a ring on her finger when she first asked. The fact that your tune seems to change throughout the thread means that I don’t think you really, truly want to marry her. 

The past day I've taken the time to truly understand this situation and fully look at everything that has happened and I've definitely come to the understanding that I needed this wake up call.  Trust me,  I truly love and want to marry her, and looking back at how this played out, me not being so pro active definitely is a bummer and is a life lesson.  with this being the first time I've ever been in this type of relationship, definitely a hard lesson to learn.  

At this point, I think the only thing left I can do is at least try and get her back, I do want to cherish her and love her and be with her. However, yeah it's been  3 months.  I gave her the love letter, asked to talk to her and she said she needed space which I've been respecting but I don't want to lose her and I need to take action.   I can't look back and have any regrets.  If she already has moved on then that's what it is, but I have to at least try. 

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

12 hours ago, S2B said:

You see what you did? She wanted to be engaged and was very clear with you what she needed. You don’t get that from many women.

then you said yes, I want that but I think you MIGHT wait another 2-4 years to get engaged! That puts her at waiting ten years to marry you!! Ten years! 

you disrespected her when you agreed to what she wanted but pulled the rug out from under her by saying “well… maybe 2 years engaged - maybe 3 - maybe 4.

and now you can’t undo it.

she knows IF you REALLY wanted to marry her NOTHING would make you wait years to propose. 
 

do you also understand after the proposal most weddings don’t take place for 12-18 more months? 

you really didn’t honor her.

S2B - I thank you very being very transparent with me throughout this whole discussion.  Trust me, it's helped me to write everything out and read everything and understand exactly what happened here.  It's a hard life lesson to learn because I truly do love her and want to be with her, but I did all the wrong things with this engagement situation and was not understanding/appreciative of what we had.  This is also the first time i'm going through a serious relationship like this, and it's tough to learn the hard way.  These timelines also are smacking me in the face now, I see it all and wish it could be differently and If I could go back in time and change how this played out I absolutely would.

 I've most likely lost her.  But, I can't have any regrets and need to try and reach out to her to let her know I'm sorry and to try and get back together and show her I would propose to her tomorrow.  I'm just at the point where I have no idea what to say to her in the right way.  She has asked for space and said she isn't ready to talk right now and I've respected that space but with her being the one I want to marry, I can't wait around any longer.  I don't want to mess up my last chance of trying to get back together with her and fix this.

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

13 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yikes!  I didn't realise it had been four months when I wrote my advice.  Could be far too late.

It's been 3 months.  She's mentioned to me she isn't ready to talk right now so I've been respecting her space - but I can't really wait any longer.  I'm at the point where I need to at least try and get back together with her and show her I'm fully committed to her and our future and get engaged. I don't want to look back and have regrets - she is the love of my life and I may have already lost her.  I'm just lost at what I say to her - I don't want to mess this up and say the wrong thing and the only way is through text message at this current moment.  

[Wiseman2]

33 minutes ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

it's been  3 months. If she already has moved on then that's what it is, but I have to at least try. 

Sorry to say but moving out is a giant step away from a relationship, often the final step and last straw.

She gave you plenty of time and chances.

Best to live and learn.

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry to say but moving out is a giant step away from a relationship, often the final step and last straw.

She gave you plenty of time and chances.

Best to live and learn.

Yeah, with how this played out, I may have a 1% chance at this point I agree.  But I'd rather try and be content with the fact I did then look back and say what if.  I'm having a hard time on what to say that is the issue right now - I don't want to say the wrong thing reaching out to her - I want to apologize for what happened and tell her I would love to make things right  with her and to give us a second chance and that I'm ready to commit to her and get engaged.  Do you think this is along the lines of the route I should go? I know people in here are saying just show up with a ring but I can't do that at this current moment because I feel as though I need to talk to her first and even make sure she's accepting 

Edited July 8, 2021 by DarkestbeforeDawn00

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

2 minutes ago, S2B said:

She gave you three weeks to decide differently when you were discussing this. You still were hell bent on waiting 2, 3 or 4 more years to take action. 

no gal wants to be in a position of begging a man to marry them. And once that decision to end it comes - they rarely go back.

so much of what you type is all about you. When does life ever become about what would make your partner happy? I don’t think you get that… because that’s the magic that make a marriage work great = when you can think of what they want instead of what you want.

I just think she gave you plenty of time to change your mind and you didn’t - so that’s that.

heck, even I don’t really believe you WANT to marry her - you mainly don’t want to lose her - and ya know what? That’s not good enough.

you would be best not marrying her - she deserves someone who would walk across fire and ice to make her happy. That guy isn’t you.

What I'm trying to say here is that I understand I made the mistake of not thinking about her as well and I would like to fix that.  Especially looking back now and the whole timeline thing I had in mind was clearly foolish.  I do want to make her happy, and clearly I didn't when this all came about but I want to fix that now and give her what she's looking for.  

I definitely don't want to lose her and I do want to marry her.  I've absolutely come to terms that I messed this up and I clearly was not thinking properly.  Throughout our relationship I did many things for her and she would always tell me how appreciative she was of me and that I knew her very well.  When it came to this situation, I buckled and I clearly see that now and I'm learning the very hard way.

Are you saying I should not try and reach out to her to make this work? ? They rarely go back true, but there is still a fighting chance.  This is the chance I need to take, and I want to give her what she is looking for and be the one who supports her and loves her

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

2 minutes ago, S2B said:

At the beginning of this thread I thought you may be capable of fixing this.

but after the responses you gave - I don’t think so. Even I have had to try and convince you to be more open to how you can make her happy - to be more aware of her feelings and preferences - but you just don’t seem to make enough effort to be flexible to making HER a priority/to DO what makes HER happy!

 

and what is this reason you can’t marry her for 2-4 years? I want to know!

Could you provide your thoughts on how I could fix this? 

I love her.  She is the one I want to spend the rest of my life with.  If that means engagement tomorrow and a wedding next week I would do it.  Clearly through this thread I've been able to understand what I've done wrong and see how I was thinking 

In terms of marriage I guess I just wanted to make fully sure I was able to support her and had everything set in place so we wouldn't have any issues ever, financial wise as well.  Starting a new career, I had to get solidified first and make sure this is what i want to do.  Great paying job, but wasn't sure if I was going to be there a long time. I guess the uncertainty of that played a big part and wanting to wait to make sure I was able to fully take care of her and our future

[glows]

I'm not sure what other option you have other than to try approaching her and tell her what you've told us if this is something you really want to do and try. Tell her what she means to you and propose to her but keep your frame of mind in perspective and that you're vulnerable and reeling from a loss. 

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

11 minutes ago, glows said:

I'm not sure what other option you have other than to try approaching her and tell her what you've told us if this is something you really want to do and try. Tell her what she means to you and propose to her but keep your frame of mind in perspective and that you're vulnerable and reeling from a loss. 

I would love to approach her and tell her in person, but the only means of communication right now is via text message because she has said she isn't ready to talk/see me right now

[glows]

1 minute ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

I would love to approach her and tell her in person, but the only means of communication right now is via text message because she has said she isn't ready to talk/see me right now

You're not going anywhere though, right? Just take one day at a time and see how things go. Use the time too to gather yourself and put other things in your life right (anything you might have been pushing to the wayside because of all this stress and upheaval). It's slim chances that she'd reconsider but for your peace of mind maybe that's the only choice for you later on. You could put yourself out of this misery and let go too but I think this is not an option for you as there is too much unfinished business.

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

2 minutes ago, S2B said:

Your mind always creates these roadblocks.

you aren’t much of a “take action now” kind of guy, are you?

 

Do some extensive counseling to help:

you become an action based person.

One that finds solutions instead of creating more problems.

a guy that thinks of others and does things for others too. 

 

Honestly - I’m not sure you have the mindset to get married. One step forward and then you consistently run 3 steps backwards. 

I would take action and approach her and To add to that, what I mean is I literally can't.  I've tried talking to her and seeing her and she has rejected that and doesn't want to see me right now.  I also don't know where she lives, so I can't show up to her doorstep and try to talk to her.  

With her asking for the time and space, I've been respecting that.  Is that not the right thing to do?

I do take action but maybe I need to take it to a higher level

 

[DarkestbeforeDawn00]

9 minutes ago, S2B said:

You know where she works right?

Not working until September - has the summer off

[jspice]

On 7/7/2021 at 12:23 PM, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

What about the other way around, why did it HAVE to be a force and within 2 years to get engaged for her or she's done?  I get it would be us being 6 years together and yeah that's a good amount of time, but i'm trying to prioritize our future too and telling her i want to get engaged also just a little more flexible of a timeline.  Where's the trying to work together part? she just couldn't accept it and ended it.

She didn’t  force you. She said what she wanted and you said what you wanted. You want different things. She left. 
 

You want her to come back because it’s inconvenient for you that she’s gone. You also want her to see your point and agree  to your 4 years. You’re “agreeing” now because that will get her back and then you’ll drag your heels again. 
leave her to find man who wants to commit to her,  not merely think about it in 4 years. 

[ShyViolet]

33 minutes ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

I would take action and approach her and To add to that, what I mean is I literally can't.  I've tried talking to her and seeing her and she has rejected that and doesn't want to see me right now.  I also don't know where she lives, so I can't show up to her doorstep and try to talk to her.  

This is your answer right here.  She is not leaving the door open to reconciling.  She's making it clear that it's over.  Respect that.

Your change of heart, now that you're saying "Oh, actually I do want to get married" is just too little too late.  I highly doubt she would be interested in your consolation prize.  In the original situation you already acted hesitant and wishy-washy about getting married.  That was hurtful to her.  You can't un-ring that bell.  

And honestly, people's first reactions are most revealing of their true feelings.  I don't believe that you truly WANT to get married.  You are just backpedaling now because you "don't want to lose her."  Not wanting to "lose" someone is not the same as actually wanting to get married.

[Acacia98]

16 hours ago, basil67 said:

I'd text her to say that you've given yourself a kick up the rear end, you realise you were being dumb and wish to see her to try and make things right.  Save a proposal for when you're face to face. 

I think you should follow this advice @DarkestbeforeDawn00. Maybe it's too late. But you should at least try if that's what your heart is telling you. If she doesn't respond, respect the fact that her answer is "No," and allow yourself to start to move on.

[Blind-Sided]

1 hour ago, DarkestbeforeDawn00 said:

Could you provide your thoughts on how I could fix this? 

You don't.

It's been several months since she emotionally walked out.  Her saying that she needs time is only half of the statement. What it should be is.. "I need time to figure out how to forget you." 

But... this is a learning point.  Think about it.  She asked you for a talk/choice on being engaged. And gave you an actual window of time. (2 year)   You blew her off.  Now you want to talk, but the only reason why is because you now know she is serious about moving on. Why would she give you time when you couldn't commit to her? 

I know it hurts... we have all been there before.  But you saying "I love her and have to try"... is her police report starting with "Stalker". 

It's been several months... it's time to move on, and learn from this mistake.  Don't let the next good one get away.

[Lotsgoingon]

Yeah, I don't think she'll take you back. I think she's pissed at you, and feels like you really hurt her, and it's too late to fix things. 

I could be wrong, but her request was straightforward and reasonable and you didn't respond. BTW: you want to apply non-negotiable items when you date someone in the future.

In your defense, I can get the male desire to want career all figured out and solid. But what you miss is that she's showing great confidence in you as you are right now. So you wanting to be in a different career position likely didn't resonate with her. I know this is hard to feel, but she most likely had already made the judgment that you would ultimately get a good job and move up in the world. She's already concluded that you'll do that. She wouldn't want an engagement deadline if she had doubts about that.

But I get your desire to be in a better place career wise. Lots of us were socialized to think like that. The flaw in this worry (I'm not at the right place to commit to marriage yet) is that technically, until you're CEO of the world, you'll always want to move up in the world. You'll always imagine being secure with more money. And the flaw in the thinking (flaw might not be the right word) is that she has confidence in you while you don't have confidence in yourself.