do they actually leave?

[Myabee]

25 minutes ago, Daliah said:

You don’t really believe any of this Myabee, and really, would his wife? ….the state of their relationship is nothing to do with you. Whether she financially  keeps him,  or actively turns her back on his appalling behaviour, or is as self flagellating as you are it’s none of your business.  She’ll do what she’s going to and believe me, she’ll know if you’re telling her all your equally appalling behaviour WITH her husband out of spite.

I say this with the benefit of hindsight and experience.  Leave.It.Alone. If she ever finds out and comes looking for you, tell her with honesty and kindness what she wants to know, otherwise give the whole thing crickets._

move along now…nothing to see….

Then why have i read sometimes the wife appreciates knowing? I feel perplexed about that☹️

Edited January 22, 2022 by Myabee

[Myabee]

40 minutes ago, stillafool said:

You never cared about any of this before he dumped you Myabee.  You are bitter because most likely he has moved on to an easier OW and no longer wants to be involved with you; so now you want the wife to know and suffer.  This is your only reason for wanting to tell her and it has nothing to do with how much you care for her.

Must you fire me up with talk of another woman? It's possible but I'm trying to not go there on my head. You are right not sure I did care. Happy now? 

[Daliah]

26 minutes ago, Myabee said:

Then why have i read sometimes the wife appreciates knowing? I feel perplexed about that☹️

It’s not the knowing, it’s the way it’s known…if it’s the OW, she needs to tell with the utmost  sensitivity (which lets be frank here, is in short supply for the wife)….not thrown at her like  lobbing a hand grenade….that’s why a former concubine’s motives must be 100% rooted in remorse, not bitter revenge.

look, I’m not saying a wife doesn’t deserve the truth. Absolutely she does, but that ‘truth’ should come from a place of regret, not vindication. I was lucky. The DH’s (Di*k head) wife was dignified in the face of such awful answers to her questions, but when she first approached me, I knew MY responsibility was to treat her with the respect and dignity her vile husband and I had failed to show her…

just the thought of what I was a part of now makes my stomach flip….🤮

Edited January 22, 2022 by Daliah

[czanclus]

3 hours ago, Allupinnit said:

If you truly cared about this woman you would not have been trying to pry her husband away from her.

Wasn't there holding a candle when all these texts and facetime happened, but for this part - my understanding is that the man lead Mya to believe that his marriage is just a notch behind Mya's own marriage, on the threshold of official end, and that the wife couldn't care less about him sexting etc with other women. So all Mya was doing there (naively, I'll add, and I'm pretty she sees it now) is letting him know he has a better option with someone who will be serious about their relationship and will treat him much better. She thought he was just missing a nudge from someone real, having settled into a dull self-denying existence.

Totally classic MM BS, granted, but when someone's in the midst of their own marital dissolution, it is more natural to project their own values and states of marriage/mind to others. She figured him as honestly done as she was in her own marriage.

Edited January 22, 2022 by czanclus

[czanclus]

As for to tell or not to tell the wife, I'm with the shrink on doing what feels most appropriate, but I agree that the vastly overwhelming likelihood is that even in the face of 'black on white' transcripts, he'll deny the importance of it, claim weakness, beg for a second chance... and the wife, who in my opinion, doesn't care about him just about her ego, will set conditions for him to follow so as to 'forgive him'. He apparently won't even respect that, likely working against his best interest, and will move on to lower maintenance affairs until caught again, and then - I would personally love to see him kicked to the curb. But, it is questionable whether Mya's revelation will be enough to make that happen.

Mya, definitely wishing you true clarity and strength through this. He is beneath WORTHLESS. He is not who you thought he was. Not even close. I hope something much more worthy comes into your life and you never think of him again.

[Myabee]

2 minutes ago, czanclus said:

Wasn't there holding a candle when all these texts and facetime happened, but for this part - my understanding is that the man lead Mya to believe that his marriage is just a notch behind Mya's own marriage, on the threshold of official end, and that the wife couldn't care less about him sexting etc with other women. So all Mya was doing there (naively, I'll add, and I'm pretty she sees it now) is letting him know he has a better option with someone who will be serious about their relationship and will treat him much better.

Totally classic MM BS, granted, but when someone's in the midst of their own marital dissolution, it is more natural to project their own values and states of marriage/mind to others. She figured him as honestly done as she was in her own marriage.

Yessss! Now you always see it clearly. Many times he stated it was beyond repair... even on d'day when he said I will need a viable place to live and it will takes more then 3 weeks to end a 18 year marriage. And All he told her was he was helping me with divorce and it was a little more then friends. Sooooo unture. Which is exactly why he is versed in cheating has done this before and will do it again. He seems to use her to end affairs when in fact she might not have even really found out. This has hurt in more ways then one. 

[Myabee]

1 minute ago, czanclus said:

As for to tell or not to tell the wife, I'm with the shrink on doing what feels most appropriate, but I agree that the vastly overwhelming likelihood is that even in the face of 'black on white' transcripts, he'll deny the importance of it, claim weakness, beg for a second chance... and the wife, who in my opinion, doesn't care about him just about her ego, will set conditions for him to follow so as to 'forgive him'. He apparently won't even respect that, likely working against his best interest, and will move on to lower maintenance affairs until caught again, and then - I would personally love to see him kicked to the curb. But, it is questionable whether Mya's revelation will be enough to make that happen.

Mya, definitely wishing you true clarity and strength through this. He is beneath WORTHLESS. He is not who you thought he was. Not even close. I hope something much more worthy comes into your life and you never think of him again.

I love you! Thank you for understanding my heart❤️❤️❤️

[Bittersweetie]

4 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

Closure is not a feeling. Closure is a choice to focus on self-care, on compassion for self and others, on acceptance. Some days you will feel you have it. Some days it will be a struggle. But it's the act of choosing to move on that counts.

These are very wise words, please consider them.

My xMM dumped me for another OW. I was so hurt. I stepped away from him but reached out months later. He responded. My idea was to reconnect then dump HIM so he knew how it felt. What actually happened was I got sucked in even more and created even more pain and chaos. Could there be a bit of this in your current thought pattern? "He hurt me and now I want him to hurt too." I think this is a natural feeling and it's not wrong to recognize it, but do think on whether to act on it.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Bittersweetie

[heartwhole2]

42 minutes ago, Myabee said:

Then why have i read sometimes the wife appreciates knowing? I feel perplexed about that☹️

Yes, of course. Everyone should know the truth of their lives --> this is true.
At the same time, we aren't arbiters of truth for every other person in this world. Our relationship to that person matters. You forfeited the right to be BW's teller of truth when you had an affair with her husband. This is also true.

The fact is, she already found out about your affair. If she wants more information from you, she can ask. It is not your business to find out how much she knows or to demand that she knows more.

Your desire to insert yourself here is really inappropriate.

[Myabee]

18 minutes ago, Daliah said:

It’s not the knowing, it’s the way it’s known…if it’s the OW, she needs to tell with the utmost  sensitivity (which lets be frank here, is in short supply for the wife)….not thrown at her like  lobbing a hand grenade….that’s why a former concubine’s motives must be 100% rooted in remorse, not bitter revenge.

look, I’m not saying a wife doesn’t deserve the truth. Absolutely she does, but that ‘truth’ should come from a place of regret, not vindication. I was lucky. The DH’s (Di*k head) wife was dignified in the face of such awful answers to her questions, but when she first approached me, I knew MY responsibility was to treat her with the respect and dignity her vile husband and I had failed to show her…

just the thought of what I was a part of now makes my stomach flip….🤮

I do agree. I am sorry you went through this but you seemed to handle it very well. Of course I would be respectful and also leave emotion out. I do have regret. No one believes me. Of course I think this MM is a D head however... my intentions were to offer the whole truth softly. No one believes me.  😞

[Myabee]

8 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

Yes, of course. Everyone should know the truth of their lives --> this is true.
At the same time, we aren't arbiters of truth for every other person in this world. Our relationship to that person matters. You forfeited the right to be BW's teller of truth when you had an affair with her husband. This is also true.

The fact is, she already found out about your affair. If she wants more information from you, she can ask. It is not your business to find out how much she knows or to demand that she knows more.

Your desire to insert yourself here is really inappropriate.

Heart... I don't even think she really even knows. 🤢 The likelihood that he  created that scenario to place blame on the wife to exit the affair is very strong. When I proposed that to him he became very defensive. My therapist agrees with me this is most likely his gig. Tell the mistress the wife knows bamm done. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Myabee

[Allupinnit]

@czanclus - I might agree with you had she not kept embarrassing herself by continually reaching out to him over the last month.  Telling the wife will just be the cherry on top of her desperation to keep this man in her life, on some level, good or bad.  Like a child having a tantrum.

Who knows why this man stays - do we all have to feel deeply "in love" with our spouses all of the time?  Of course not.  That takes work.  Passion ebbs and flows.  Tragedies happen.  Jobs are lost, people get sick, our loved ones pass away, we buy homes, etc. marriage is changing and evolving together year after year.  It is folly to think you'll always feel about your spouse the way you did when you were dating.  So it just really irks me when women claim to know what's best for their MM, which would be HAPPINESS with HER (supposedly).  That's the lie and the trap.  

I have yet to really see where @Myabee takes responsibility.  To her, they were just two innocent people who fell into "love" by accident, and he chose "wrongly" by staying with his wife for the money.  THAT is the narrative I have an issue with.  If she doesn't stop telling that lie to herself she will never heal.  Cheaters LIE.  OW just think the MM doesn't lie to HER.

[Myabee]

1 minute ago, Allupinnit said:

@czanclus - I might agree with you had she not kept embarrassing herself by continually reaching out to him over the last month.  Telling the wife will just be the cherry on top of her desperation to keep this man in her life, on some level, good or bad.  Like a child having a tantrum.

Who knows why this man stays - do we all have to feel deeply "in love" with our spouses all of the time?  Of course not.  That takes work.  Passion ebbs and flows.  Tragedies happen.  Jobs are lost, people get sick, our loved ones pass away, we buy homes, etc. marriage is changing and evolving together year after year.  It is folly to think you'll always feel about your spouse the way you did when you were dating.  So it just really irks me when women claim to know what's best for their MM, which would be HAPPINESS with HER (supposedly).  That's the lie and the trap.  

I have yet to really see where @Myabee takes responsibility.  To her, they were just two innocent people who fell into "love" by accident, and he chose "wrongly" by staying with his wife for the money.  THAT is the narrative I have an issue with.  If she doesn't stop telling that lie to herself she will never heal.  Cheaters LIE.  OW just think the MM doesn't lie to HER.

No! I do not want him in my life!!!! If that was the case I would never tell. If I tell he will hate me which is fine by me. Choose wrongly? He was never planning on making a choice it was all a ploy and game. Yes I figured out he is a big lier. 

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, Myabee said:

In conclusion, you don't want to bring old rats onto a new ship. You can't expect to stay married if old problems aren't properly addressed, otherwise it will just happen again.

You are really in no place to dole out marriage advice. 

Leave these people alone. 

[Snakesalive]

4 hours ago, Myabee said:

Some of this is probably true. So do not tell??? 

@Myabeeslow down and  take a breath. What’s the rush to tell ? Gently you’re in no place to make this kind  of decision that will impact so many lives in ways you can’t even begin to know .

I’ts worrying your therapist told you. To do what feels right -yes it’s your decision but for me a good therapist will help you unpick the motivation behind your choices and maybe to revisit  this in a week or mire to see if you feel differently as a way to help you make the right choice for you /a considered choice not reacting on high emotion has she tried to do that? 

Hurt people hurt people , im sorry but I think this sums up where you’re at . 
You may think you’ll feel better by telling her , that she has s right to know , yes he might have lied to you by telling you she knows about the affair, or maybe not . It doesn’t matter. Really it doesn’t 
Please stop investing any more of your thoughts and energy into this situation believe me you will feel better in time but whet you’re going through is a process snd there’s no quick way through it -give yourself time and distance 
I’m sure you regret your choice to be involved in someone else’s marriage - the way to show you genuinely feel that way is to remain outside of it . X

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Snakesalive

[Myabee]

11 minutes ago, Snakesalive said:

@Myabeeslow down and  take a breath. What’s the rush to tell ? Gently you’re in no place to make this kind  of decision that will impact so many lives in ways you can’t even begin to know .

I’ts worrying your therapist told you. To do what feels right -yes it’s your decision but for me a good therapist will help you unpick the motivation behind your choices and maybe to revisit  this in a week or mire to see if you feel differently as a way to help you make the right choice for you /a considered choice not reacting on high emotion has she tried to do that? 

Hurt people hurt people , im sorry but I think this sums up where you’re at . 
You may think you’ll feel better by telling her , that she has s right to know , yes he might have lied to you by telling you she knows about the affair, or maybe not . It doesn’t matter. Really it doesn’t 
Please stop investing any more of your thoughts and energy into this situation believe me you will feel better in time but whet you’re going through is a process snd there’s no quick way through it -give yourself time and distance 
I’m sure you regret your choice to be involved in someone else’s marriage - the way to show you genuinely feel that way is to remain outside of it . X

 

I have a really great therapist and of course she has been working with me to work through this. She kind of said you know it's your choice to tell I can't tell you not to but think it through. I will think it through but give it a rest for today. I'm sick to my stomach knowing I allowed myself to be involved in someones else's marriage for way to long.. yes I regret that very much. I think I need to go back to thinking his loss.. that was helping me. I swear I would not advise anyone to become involved in an affair with a married person. It's a very bad siutation😞

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Myabee said:

No! I do not want him in my life!!!! If that was the case I would never tell. If I tell he will hate me which is fine by me.

And this quote underscores that "caring" is not the reason you want to tell the wife - you openly acknowledge that you wouldn't tell her if you'd decided to keep seeing him.   

You're wanting to tell her because it's a way to help you stay away from him and to process the end of the relationship.  It's really got nothing to do with her knowing the 'truth'

 

[heartwhole2]

I think you have a tendency to swing from one extreme to another. You're soul mates/no, he's a narcissist who fooled you. His wife is an evil controlling person he's only with for her money/no, she's an innocent victim who must be saved by the mistress. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle, doesn't it? I don't think your whole relationship and those feelings were all fabricated as some kind of scheme; he was getting way too little pay-off with you 3,000 miles away. But on the other hand, the only time you DID see him in person was when he was in town for a week to see his family, and he only carved out one day for you and refused to have a full PA. So that says . . . the feelings were real, but so was his desire to protect and continue his marriage.

Do I think he put all this time into your relationship just to decide, you know what, ugh, I'm done, I'll make up a story about a DDay, mwah ha ha ha ha . . . No, I don't. But even if he did, it doesn't change anything. It wasn't meant to be. It was messy and complicated and ill-advised, and it's time to move on. He's not your soul mate; he's just someone who helped you know that you could love and be loved again. It's time to move forward instead of giving away what's left of your dignity. You don't have any right to double-check whether he was telling you the truth when he ended things -- not if it means ambushing his wife. Anyone in any relationship is always allowed to end it for whatever reason they want, even a marriage with kids. As hard as unwanted break-ups are, you don't have any right to demand more from the person who dumped you. A relationship is a two way street and that road is now closed. You're going to wind up with a restraining order against you if you keep looking for ways to make them interact with you

[Myabee]

13 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

I think you have a tendency to swing from one extreme to another. You're soul mates/no, he's a narcissist who fooled you. His wife is an evil controlling person he's only with for her money/no, she's an innocent victim who must be saved by the mistress. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle, doesn't it? I don't think your whole relationship and those feelings were all fabricated as some kind of scheme; he was getting way too little pay-off with you 3,000 miles away. But on the other hand, the only time you DID see him in person was when he was in town for a week to see his family, and he only carved out one day for you and refused to have a full PA. So that says . . . the feelings were real, but so was his desire to protect and continue his marriage.

Do I think he put all this time into your relationship just to decide, you know what, ugh, I'm done, I'll make up a story about a DDay, mwah ha ha ha ha . . . No, I don't. But even if he did, it doesn't change anything. It wasn't meant to be. It was messy and complicated and ill-advised, and it's time to move on. He's not your soul mate; he's just someone who helped you know that you could love and be loved again. It's time to move forward instead of giving away what's left of your dignity. You don't have any right to double-check whether he was telling you the truth when he ended things -- not if it means ambushing his wife. Anyone in any relationship is always allowed to end it for whatever reason they want, even a marriage with kids. As hard as unwanted break-ups are, you don't have any right to demand more from the person who dumped you. A relationship is a two way street and that road is now closed. You're going to wind up with a restraining order against you if you keep looking for ways to make them interact with you

I was not demanding more. The truth of the situation would have been nice. But then again why expect truth from a man that was lying and cheating with me? That's kind of stupid. Yes it felt like a soulmate connection and could very well have been the kind that did show me I could love again. Yes.. I have been swinging back and forth this has been a nightmare for me that gives me nightmares. Again,  I regret getting involved and staying involved for so long. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Myabee

[SoulCat]

3 hours ago, Myabee said:

The thread had nothing to do with what's been in my mind. Idk what you all want me to say? No one believes anything I say here.  

That's not really surprising, considering you've been talking out of both sides of your mouth for weeks, if not months.

He is your soulmate, the man you love. He is a player, a narcissist and a weak man.

His wife is a controlling, conniving harpy who holds money over him. She is an innocent woman needing to know the truth about her husband.

You are so, so totally done. Over it. Moving on. You pester him after he dumped you. Incessantly. 

You cling on to certain notions ( room mate marriage, saving face) and you screech those in your posts to assert your stance, defending your role in this sordid little tale.

I agree with the folks who think you are nowhere near accepting or acknowledging your part in all of this. You still see yourself as a poorly, taken-advantage of victim.

You're not  victim. You placed a very poorly-judged gamble, and unsurprisingly, you lost.

Leave him, her and their marriage alone. 

And do some proper introspection. You had a massive part to play in all of this. Own that.

 

[basil67]

25 minutes ago, Myabee said:

I was not demanding more. The truth of the situation would have been nice. But then again why expect truth from a man that was lying and cheating with me? That's kind of stupid. 

You had the truth all along.  You had the only truth which mattered.  HE WAS MARRIED    

That you chose to continue while knowing the truth is 100% on you. 

[Myabee]

20 minutes ago, Myabee said:

I was not demanding more. The truth of the situation would have been nice. But then again why expect truth from a man that was lying and cheating with me? That's kind of stupid. Yes it felt like a soulmate connection and could very well have been the kind that did show me I could love again. Yes.. I have been swinging back and forth this has been a nightmare for me that gives me nightmares. Again,  I regret getting involved and staying involved for so long. 

I'm just going to walk away with my head held high. This MM did not deserve a woman like me anyway. I was honest with all in my life and should never entained anything with a married man. 

 

1 minute ago, SoulCat said:

That's not really surprising, considering you've been talking out of both sides of your mouth for weeks, if not months.

He is your soulmate, the man you love. He is a player, a narcissist and a weak man.

His wife is a controlling, conniving harpy who holds money over him. She is an innocent woman needing to know the truth about her husband.

You are so, so totally done. Over it. Moving on. You pester him after he dumped you. Incessantly. 

You cling on to certain notions ( room mate marriage, saving face) and you screech those in your posts to assert your stance, defending your role in this sordid little tale.

I agree with the folks who think you are nowhere near accepting or acknowledging your part in all of this. You still see yourself as a poorly, taken-advantage of victim.

You're not  victim. You placed a very poorly-judged gamble, and unsurprisingly, you lost.

Leave him, her and their marriage alone. 

And do some proper introspection. You had a massive part to play in all of this. Own that.

 

It's the way he dumped me I guess that is disturbing. Again... Stupidity on my part has kept my mind seeking truth. Truth I will never get. The only person now that can bring me peace is myself... and yes I have been all over the place this situation was terrible to make a choice to place myself in. I do accept my role. I have been hung up on the hurt of accepting his lies.  

[Myabee]

Just now, basil67 said:

You had the truth all along.  You had the only truth which mattered.  HE WAS MARRIED    

That you chose to continue while knowing the truth is 100% on you. 

That's kinda what I just posted. I placed myself  willingly in the situation. 

[stillafool]

3 hours ago, Myabee said:

Must you fire me up with talk of another woman? It's possible but I'm trying to not go there on my head. You are right not sure I did care. Happy now? 

No Myabee.  You need to stop pretending this affair was some 'soulmate connection' that's being prevented because he has no other choice but to stay with his wife who pays his bills.  You know that isn't true because you would help him financially if he left.  Also he and his wife both work and make about the same amount I think you said in a post earler.  You need to face up to the truth about your relationship which is you were wrong.  He wasn't head over heels in love the way you were nor was he ever going to leave his wife.  He does like having another woman on the side for his fantasy and ego but that is where he leaves it.  He doesn't want one who is going to pressure him to leave his wife and be with her.

When you decide to face and accept the above truths only then will you began to heal.  As you can see finally getting him to acknowlege and talk to you did nothing to move your forward but only set you back.   I hope you don't make that mistake again.

[mark clemson]

8 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

Closure is not a feeling. Closure is a choice to focus on self-care, on compassion for self and others, on acceptance. Some days you will feel you have it. Some days it will be a struggle. But it's the act of choosing to move on that counts.

I agree that there is a lot of wisdom in this and in many of HW2's (and others') posts generally.

 I'd like to piggyback with my opinion that "closure" means you are content without the other person and/or thoughts or worries about them or what's going on in their life, etc. You are done with the other person and so they simply are not a concern of yours. To me that is "closure" and it takes time to achieve (and indeed achieve is the wrong word as it's a natural condition once it is (actually) achieved/attained).

At any rate, there are many in the world whose personal morality dictates "telling" a BS about an affair, and many who feel that minding their own business is the more moral path. Since morals only exist in people's thoughts, neither is (objectively) "correct" they are simply approaches to the issue. (Telling causes damage, but then again affairs also cause damage and risk the specific damage of discovery that telling actualizes. So again, no "correct" answer.)

I tend to agree that for a "not chosen" OW to decide to tell seems disingenuous (at best) and probably vindictive at least unconsciously. It also seems to me like a form of "reclaiming moral high ground" that one never actually held in the first place.

Edited January 22, 2022 by mark clemson