Is it a date or just hanging out?

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, JDam said:

He replied he does not like this unnecessary drama and that he would let me know about Sunday.

He is very straight forward about not wanting a relationship and things being on his terms only, which is to keep you at arms length. 

If you don't want to get hurt, don't chase lukewarm men who treat you like a bother. End it with him.

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, JDam said:

He does not have the guts to tell me he does not want more, so he says Im chasing, pushing etc. Its just not fair. I want to clarify once and for all.

He cares about you because you are an ex of his and doesn't want to hurt you.  He doesn't realize that he is hurting you by not cutting the chord and letting you go if he isn't interested in getting back together with you.  You cannot be friends and hang out together as if you've never had romantic feelings for each other.  I think he needs to be honest with you that he wants to get back together and then do it or he doesn't want to and then leave you alone so you can move on and heal.  I think you need to tell him this so you can find out for sure what is happening.  If he says he doesn't want to get back together you have to leave him alone this time.  He was the one who broke up first last time.

Edited January 4, 2022 by stillafool

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, JDam said:

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

 

He asked about the study materials, he asked me to provide him some info which he could use for the bar exam.

So he's studying for the Bar and will be a young lawyer soon?  He may want to be free.

[JDam]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

He is very straight forward about not wanting a relationship and things being on his terms only, which is to keep you at arms length. 

If you don't want to get hurt, don't chase lukewarm men who treat you like a bother. End it with him.

It breaks my heart, but I think you are right  He will get in touch about Sunday and either say he is busy or free. Or maybe he will just outright say he wants to end things. Either way, I have prepared the following text:

I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that we should no longer be seeing each other because we are not on the same page. I should have gotten the hint earlier, I did not read your intentions correctly or you were not honest with me, but I thought and hoped that given what I told you in August, you would not be meeting up with me (and sleep with me) unless you wanted to hurt me and knew from the very beginning that all you wanted was a hookup here and there. But Im not that way, it is not my style. Our time together was lovely but I just do not feel any interest from your side and I think you would only hurt me sooner or later. Im not comfortable in a relationship that is mostly on the other persons terms while I have to supress my needs or they are marginalized as “unnecessary drama”. I just dont have the time and energy for this.

what do you think? Is it harsh? 

54 minutes ago, stillafool said:

He cares about you because you are an ex of his and doesn't want to hurt you.  He doesn't realize that he is hurting you by not cutting the chord and letting you go if he isn't interested in getting back together with you.  You cannot be friends and hang out together as if you've never had romantic feelings for each other.  I think he needs to be honest with you that he wants to get back together and then do it or he doesn't want to and then leave you alone so you can move on and heal.  I think you need to tell him this so you can find out for sure what is happening.  If he says he doesn't want to get back together you have to leave him alone this time.  He was the one who broke up first last time.

Thank you! well I dont know…  i think he knows me damn well and knows he is hurting me. He knows I want more. And you are right. I just think that I will send him the text above as his intentions are clear I think  I dont think this is a misunderstanding. 

[mark clemson]

Yes, it seems very much that he's not gaslighting, but really wants a FWB (or perhaps is one of these people who stays "attached" but at arms length). Since you want more/a closer relationship it seems you're not likely to be truly happy with this approach.

[curlygirl40]

4 hours ago, JDam said:

 

I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that we should no longer be seeing each other because we are not on the same page. I should have gotten the hint earlier, I did not read your intentions correctly or you were not honest with me, but I thought and hoped that given what I told you in August, you would not be meeting up with me (and sleep with me) unless you wanted to hurt me and knew from the very beginning that all you wanted was a hookup here and there. But Im not that way, it is not my style. Our time together was lovely but I just do not feel any interest from your side and I think you would only hurt me sooner or later. Im not comfortable in a relationship that is mostly on the other persons terms while I have to supress my needs or they are marginalized as “unnecessary drama”. I just dont have the time and energy for this.

 

Do not send this text.  And not because it's harsh, but because it's unnecessary.    There's a quote that I have always loved, I think it's Evan Marc Katz (google him) that goes something like this 'Men are talking, you are not listening'.   He has told you EXACTLY what he wants with his actions.  You are not paying attention.  There is NO need to send him this text.   He's not pursuing you.    You can end this right now with silence.  

I never understood this.    Think about what you need in a partner, what you want in a partner.    The first thing on your list should be 'is also interested in being with me'.     That is a basic requirement of a relationship.      He is not interested in a real relationship with you.    You are chasing him, asking for cuddles, asking like he promised you things when he's been pretty clear that he doesn't want the same things.   

To tell yourself 'well I told him I had feelings for him so if he didn't back away from me then, that means he wants the same things because he wouldn't even be in contact with me because he knows he will hurt me so therefore he must want me too' is nonsense.  

People do whatever they want to do to fulfill their needs and most of the time they hope they don't hurt someone in the process.  But the hoping they don't hurt anyone is secondary to getting their needs met.    He is getting his needs met....sex when he wants it, cuddles when he wants it, outings when he wants it.  All he has to do is put up with your occasional 'drama' (his words) to get his needs met.       

You don't have to send a text to 'end' it.  There's nothing to end because there is nothing here.    Just him getting his needs met and you hoping for more.  That is not a relationship.

If he does reach out to you just be busy.   Ignore.  Reply that you're busy on Sunday.   You owe this guy NOTHING.    Best of luck

[JDam]

9 minutes ago, curlygirl40 said:

Do not send this text.  And not because it's harsh, but because it's unnecessary.    There's a quote that I have always loved, I think it's Evan Marc Katz (google him) that goes something like this 'Men are talking, you are not listening'.   He has told you EXACTLY what he wants with his actions.  You are not paying attention.  There is NO need to send him this text.   He's not pursuing you.    You can end this right now with silence.  

I never understood this.    Think about what you need in a partner, what you want in a partner.    The first thing on your list should be 'is also interested in being with me'.     That is a basic requirement of a relationship.      He is not interested in a real relationship with you.    You are chasing him, asking for cuddles, asking like he promised you things when he's been pretty clear that he doesn't want the same things.   

To tell yourself 'well I told him I had feelings for him so if he didn't back away from me then, that means he wants the same things because he wouldn't even be in contact with me because he knows he will hurt me so therefore he must want me too' is nonsense.  

People do whatever they want to do to fulfill their needs and most of the time they hope they don't hurt someone in the process.  But the hoping they don't hurt anyone is secondary to getting their needs met.    He is getting his needs met....sex when he wants it, cuddles when he wants it, outings when he wants it.  All he has to do is put up with your occasional 'drama' (his words) to get his needs met.       

You don't have to send a text to 'end' it.  There's nothing to end because there is nothing here.    Just him getting his needs met and you hoping for more.  That is not a relationship.

If he does reach out to you just be busy.   Ignore.  Reply that you're busy on Sunday.   You owe this guy NOTHING.    Best of luck

It hurts so damn much but you are right  I just judge other peoples actions and motives by my own. Like I would never ever treat someone like that, especially if I knew I was hurting them. And he does know.

i disagree though that my expectations were somehow unfounded. As mentioned, he initiated the contact several times, agreed or even said he would love to meet up etc. Last time we agreed it would be nice to go skiing etc. So he is just leading me on and is not honest.

and no, I will not send the text, you are right. I think he will say he is busy on Sunday though. Then I would just not reply anything at all. If he is free I will say I have made other plans in the meantime…

 

[glows]

5 hours ago, JDam said:

I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that we should no longer be seeing each other because we are not on the same page. I should have gotten the hint earlier, I did not read your intentions correctly or you were not honest with me, but I thought and hoped that given what I told you in August, you would not be meeting up with me (and sleep with me) unless you wanted to hurt me and knew from the very beginning that all you wanted was a hookup here and there. But Im not that way, it is not my style. Our time together was lovely but I just do not feel any interest from your side and I think you would only hurt me sooner or later. Im not comfortable in a relationship that is mostly on the other persons terms while I have to supress my needs or they are marginalized as “unnecessary drama”. I just dont have the time and energy for this.

what do you think? Is it harsh? 

Thank you! well I dont know…  i think he knows me damn well and knows he is hurting me. He knows I want more. And you are right. I just think that I will send him the text above as his intentions are clear I think  I dont think this is a misunderstanding. 

No, just don't initiate any texts or calls or meet ups with him. If he approaches you, keep it short. "Thanks for reaching out and the time we spent together. I've decided to move on. Wishing you all the best."

He doesn't need to know about your hurt or your style or whether you have time or energy. 

Save that amount of care and communication for another man.

[JDam]

1 minute ago, glows said:

No, just don't initiate any texts or calls or meet ups with him. If he approaches you, keep it short. "Thanks for reaching out and the time we spent together. I've decided to move on. Wishing you all the best."

He doesn't need to know about your hurt or your style or whether you have time or energy. 

Save that amount of care and communication for another man.

You are right! ❤️ I will not send this text. Thank you!

[ShyViolet]

Stop chasing a guy who is making it clear he's not interested in you.  All he's been interested in is occasional sex.  Nothing more.  You are causing yourself unnecessary drama by chasing a guy who is just not that into you.  There's no need to send him a long, dramatic text... just find your dignity and walk away.

[JDam]

Interesting that you are saying he is “making clear” he is not interested, yet he initiated the meet ups (where we did other things too) and said he would “of course” like to see me. He is just a dishonest scumbag who cant tell me and person and keeps leading me on. So stop making me look like some crazy chasing psycho. There was a reason I reached out to him.

[basil67]

He's making clear that he's not interested in a relationship.  Initiating meet ups (even without sex) doesn't equate to him wanting to be in a relationship with you.    In terms of wanting a relationship, you haven't described any behaviour which looks like he's pretending to be romantically interested.

[JDam]

26 minutes ago, basil67 said:

He's making clear that he's not interested in a relationship.  Initiating meet ups (even without sex) doesn't equate to him wanting to be in a relationship with you.    In terms of wanting a relationship, you haven't described any behaviour which looks like he's pretending to be romantically interested.

There is a double standard here. You are biased in his favor because Im asking here on this forum. But if you leave that out, what exactly have I done to appear like I want a relationship? Im initiating as well as he does. I could also be wanting just sex.

Edited January 5, 2022 by JDam

[basil67]

The reason I thought you wanted a relationship is because you seemed rather fond of him (when he's nice), are making plans in advance for activities, sending nice thank you notes and are wanting to do things which don't involve sex.  It's all the stuff people suggest when they are dating. It certainly doesn't look like you just want sex.

If you just want sex, why not dial back on all the rest of it and have no strings sex when you're both available and interested?  It will leave you plenty of time to date other guys and find someone who wants what you want.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by basil67

[spiderowl]

"when we are together, he is very warm and nice, says he would love to meet up again. But when I ask he acts cold and distant."

I'm sorry, OP, he's just in it for the sex. He has no intention of anything else and is saying what you want to hear while you are with him so that he gets the sex.  As soon as you are at a distance from him, he switches off the act.

He is gaslighting you.  You are hoping for more from this guy and there is no evidence he is looking for more.

Sorry, you really need to find someone better.

[JDam]

15 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

"when we are together, he is very warm and nice, says he would love to meet up again. But when I ask he acts cold and distant."

I'm sorry, OP, he's just in it for the sex. He has no intention of anything else and is saying what you want to hear while you are with him so that he gets the sex.  As soon as you are at a distance from him, he switches off the act.

He is gaslighting you.  You are hoping for more from this guy and there is no evidence he is looking for more.

Sorry, you really need to find someone better.

Yeah, you are right  when he lets me know about sunday I still hesitate whether to just say: I have made other plans for the weekend. Or say: lets drop this, we are not on the same page as I have clearly misunderstood your behavior towards me. Just that. Im afraid that if I let it fade away, deep down I will still be hoping that he reaches out again and he will sooner or later. But for a hookup and I just want to end this once and for all and also let him know (subtly) that I dont like his behavior.

Edited January 5, 2022 by JDam

[spiderowl]

8 minutes ago, JDam said:

Yeah, you are right  when he lets me know about sunday I still hesitate whether to just say: I have made other plans for the weekend. Or say: lets drop this, we are not on the same page as I have clearly misunderstood your behavior towards me. Just that. Im afraid that if I let it fade away, deep down I will still be hoping that he reaches out again and he will sooner or later. But for a hookup and I just want to end this once and for all and also let him know (subtly) that I dont like his behavior.

No-one can tell you what to do, OP, or how to do it.  I know if I was in your shoes, I would not want to show him I have any feelings for him, I would want to retain my dignity.  I would probably go for being cold and uninterested in meeting with him.  Put the shoe on the other foot, so to speak.  As long as he thinks you are swooning over him and desperate to meet and be hugged by him, he is in a power position.  He is probably also feeling pressured because he does not feel the same way as you.  I think by being cool and brief you are getting the message across that:

- you are fed up of his behaviour

- you have self respect

- you do not have time for him

- you are not going to hang around waiting for him.

[JDam]

3 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

No-one can tell you what to do, OP, or how to do it.  I know if I was in your shoes, I would not want to show him I have any feelings for him, I would want to retain my dignity.  I would probably go for being cold and uninterested in meeting with him.  Put the shoe on the other foot, so to speak.  As long as he thinks you are swooning over him and desperate to meet and be hugged by him, he is in a power position.  He is probably also feeling pressured because he does not feel the same way as you.  I think by being cool and brief you are getting the message across that:

- you are fed up of his behaviour

- you have self respect

- you do not have time for him

- you are not going to hang around waiting for him.

Thank you! I really appreciate your help (and everyone elses).

I agree. Its just that Im afraid that if I do not make it absolutely clear that Im not interested in the hookups (and just say Im busy on Sunday), he will reach out again and I just cant say and promise myself Im strong enough to send him to hell and be cold again. I could just make it clear by saying: sorry, we are not on the same page and I misunderstood your behavior. I have made plans for the weekend. 
 

i dont know

 

[spiderowl]

4 minutes ago, JDam said:

Thank you! I really appreciate your help (and everyone elses).

I agree. Its just that Im afraid that if I do not make it absolutely clear that Im not interested in the hookups (and just say Im busy on Sunday), he will reach out again and I just cant say and promise myself Im strong enough to send him to hell and be cold again. I could just make it clear by saying: sorry, we are not on the same page and I misunderstood your behavior. I have made plans for the weekend. 
 

i dont know

 

Only you can decide if you are going to go 'cold turkey' on this or not.  He is unlikely to change and will take advantage and then be cold later - can you cope with that?

Sorry, I know how hard it is, but guys can compartmentalize things in their heads easier than women.  You would not want to be close to a guy and hug him if you did not want more; guys are perfectly capable of putting on a warm act if it means they get sex once in a while.  It is a hard lesson to learn that they are different in this respect.

Edited January 5, 2022 by spiderowl

[JDam]

35 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

Only you can decide if you are going to go 'cold turkey' on this or not.  He is unlikely to change and will take advantage and then be cold later - can you cope with that?

Sorry, I know how hard it is, but guys can compartmentalize things in their heads easier than women.  You would not want to be close to a guy and hug him if you did not want more; guys are perfectly capable of putting on a warm act if it means they get sex once in a while.  It is a hard lesson to learn that they are different in this respect.

Yeah, you are right. Thank you! ❤️

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, JDam said:

Thank you! I really appreciate your help (and everyone elses).

I agree. Its just that Im afraid that if I do not make it absolutely clear that Im not interested in the hookups (and just say Im busy on Sunday), he will reach out again and I just cant say and promise myself Im strong enough to send him to hell and be cold again. I could just make it clear by saying: sorry, we are not on the same page and I misunderstood your behavior. I have made plans for the weekend. 
 

i dont know

 

After you tell him you are not interested in anymore hookups you then BLOCK him from contacting you so you won't be tempted to see him again if he reaches out.  Also it will help you to get over him because you won't be watching to see if he contacts you again.

[glows]

7 hours ago, JDam said:

Thank you! I really appreciate your help (and everyone elses).

I agree. Its just that Im afraid that if I do not make it absolutely clear that Im not interested in the hookups (and just say Im busy on Sunday), he will reach out again and I just cant say and promise myself Im strong enough to send him to hell and be cold again. I could just make it clear by saying: sorry, we are not on the same page and I misunderstood your behavior. I have made plans for the weekend. 
 

i dont know

 

That sounds fine too. However you say it it’s your actions that count. Each time you feel tempted to respond do something else. 

 

[Interstellar]

That’s because your interest level in him is 95 percent, while his interest in you is only 51-55 percent. If he’s in the 80’s then there is hope but you’re fighting an uphill battle here. You have a better chance of winning the jackpot in the lottery. He’s just waiting for someone better to come along, and women do this to guys too all the time.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Interstellar

[Acacia98]

On 1/4/2022 at 5:43 PM, JDam said:

It breaks my heart, but I think you are right  He will get in touch about Sunday and either say he is busy or free. Or maybe he will just outright say he wants to end things. Either way, I have prepared the following text:

I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion that we should no longer be seeing each other because we are not on the same page. I should have gotten the hint earlier, I did not read your intentions correctly or you were not honest with me, but I thought and hoped that given what I told you in August, you would not be meeting up with me (and sleep with me) unless you wanted to hurt me and knew from the very beginning that all you wanted was a hookup here and there. But Im not that way, it is not my style. Our time together was lovely but I just do not feel any interest from your side and I think you would only hurt me sooner or later. Im not comfortable in a relationship that is mostly on the other persons terms while I have to supress my needs or they are marginalized as “unnecessary drama”. I just dont have the time and energy for this.

I think it's okay to send him a final message then block him. But the message above is too long and it shares your emotions with someone who doesn't deserve that privilege.

So cut it down to two sentences max. In the first sentence, say something that indicates you will no longer be communicating with him or meeting up with him. In the second sentence, say "Goodbye" or "Wish you well" or something like that. Then hit send. And then block him everywhere. You can do this right now. You don't have to wait for him to reach out first.

This allows you to create an official ending for the situationship. He knows it's over, you know it's over. And the blocking makes it final. If he happens to try reaching out with a new number or something, don't answer. Just ignore then block. And if you ever feel tempted to unblock him and reach out, all you have to do is remind yourself how terrible you felt in those interactions that required you to suppress your needs and labelled them "unnecessary drama."

I don't like what this guy did to you. It takes a special level of callousness to continue having sex with someone that you know loves you and wants more from you if you're not on the same page. At the same time, I think you need to be kinder to yourself and protect yourself more. Precisely because people can be callous and selfish, you can't afford to rely on them to do right by you. You have to set the boundaries and be ready to insist that they respect them.

[basil67]

Instead of sending a message, another option is to simply block him.  This would speak louder than any words.