Concerned my housemate may have deeper issues going on

[Ginger_cat_keeper]

So in my last post I discussed ongoing issues I was having with my housemate of 4 months now, and as time's gone on I'm becoming increasingly more suspicious that something deeper is going on.

I'm very private and self-sufficient by nature and since we barely knew each other, having met through an online room searching site, I had no real intention of getting this close to my new housemate and just wanted to live harmoniously and get on with my own thing. But it became apparent quite quickly that she doesn't have many people or things going on in her life, and I started to feel quite uncomfortable, like she was very reliant on my help around the house and input for things that are none of my business, trying to pull me into some kind of codependent relationship where she shared way too much personal stuff early on and would ask me lots of personal questions as well. So I've had to maintain my distance from her as nicely as possible because I don't want to create an awkward atmosphere or build resentment towards her.

She seems to cycle through high and low moods, and every few weeks or so after having fairly normal interactions with her, she'll approach me to have a chat or invite me to have a drink with her and she sits balled up in her chair word vomiting all her negative thoughts, often with no context, and starts crying while I'm wondering what the hell is going on. She sounds distant and repeats the same woes and starts asking me what I would do in her situation, or what my own plans in life are, and how I've come to be successful in different areas of life. And I really don't know how to answer her. After the 4th, 5th or 6th time of this it's become painful to endure. I can only repeat the same generic advice and it's almost like she forgets we've had this same discussion several times before yet she expects a different answer every time -  she wants to know exact solutions to her problems and tries to pry me for details and when I can't give her anything she balls into herself and cries again before starting on a new rhetoric.

She did this last night, she came home from work and invited me to have a drink and sat at the kitchen table like she was going to give me some horrible news, and proceeded to offload, before grilling me about my goals and choices in life that brought me to where I am now, and me continually trying to redirect back to more neutral ground. I was clearly uncomfortable and playing with my drink, checking my phone, fussing the cat, waiting for an appropriate time to make my excuses to leave because it becomes exhausting. it's like she's booking me in for a one-on-one counselling session, while in the nicest way possible, I'm just wanting to get on with my day. And it's not like she's not self-aware, a few days before this we spoke briefly in the hallway and she told me in a refreshing moment of clarity that her boyfriend told her off for always being negative and expecting others to fix her problems for her. So it's a very obvious issue but she doesn't seem to be aware when she's doing it.

During some of our talks (including last night) she flits between being super depressive and going off on tangents about wanting to start her own business, and quitting smoking, and running a half marathon, and going off to live in a van, just cycling through random unconnected ideas and trying to get me involved; or she'll have bouts of energy where she'll start doing something and then just as quickly forget or abandon it halfway through, and whenever I try to ground the conversation or bring her focus back she'll cut me off as if she's not even aware I'm speaking. It's like she's in another world entirely, which leads me to suspicion that she's 'not all there' or under the influence of something. Somebody brought it up in a reply to my previous post which made me think about it more, and looking back, I can't confidently rule it out. What it might be, I have no idea as again, I've only known her a few months so some of the things might just be part of her personality, but a lot of her overall behaviour could be attributed to some kind of mental or substance abuse issue, like abnormal levels of absent-mindedness and forgetfulness, time-blindness, poor performance at work and inability to stay in one job for an extended period of time, difficulty maintaining relationships, inability to focus on tasks, lack of cleanliness, impulsive spending, and a general lack of motivation in life.

I've been trying to not-subtly hint that perhaps she should seek out some kind of therapy as a way to deflect her from offloading onto me when she gets into one of these states, and she's invariably brushed it off. I don't know what I can do to help her otherwise except try to keep my distance for now. I've already stated in my previous post that she's generally harmless other than the forgetfulness of her house key which has now stopped, so I'm not massively concerned for my safety, more just hoping I can get through the rest of this tenancy in peace.

[Wiseman2]

20 minutes ago, Ginger_cat_keeper said:

She did this last night, she came home from work and invited me to have a drink and sat at the kitchen table. I was clearly uncomfortable and playing with my drink.

You need to stop socializing with her.

[Ginger_cat_keeper]

18 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You need to stop socializing with her.

Yeah, I probably worded it badly as it's not so much 'socialising' as her inviting me to talk. Honestly this most recent event was after a few weeks of rejecting her invitations and she was becoming very insistent - it's difficult to never talk to someone you live with and dodge them without causing animosity. So I have to pick my battles.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Ginger_cat_keeper

[ShyViolet]

There's absolutely nothing you can do to help her.  It's not your place to help her, and she has issues that are way beyond your ability to help.  This roommate sounds worse and worse the more you post about her; I remember your previous posts where she was leaving the house unlocked, forgetting her key constantly, being a total slob and not cleaning up after herself at all.  I am wondering when you are going to put an end to this insanity and move out.  When you live with someone you have to be able to trust them.  A lot of your own safety and security is depending on them.  I wouldn't trust this person for a second, I wouldn't feel safe living with them.  It makes no sense that you are staying there.

[Miss Spider]

She sounds like a typical neurotic extrovert to me. I would just tell her that I’m busy and go to my room when she start yapping 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Ginger_cat_keeper said:

- it's difficult to never talk to someone you live with and dodge them without causing animosity.

She seems to have enough of that for everyone. She seems too the thirsty and needy to engage with. Don't worry about her not liking you.

Make your own new circle of friends there and get much more involved with local clubs, groups, volunteer, etc.

Be out a lot, don't ask her for favors. get a lock on your bedroom door (she may use drugs, who knows?) Keep everything separate.

Always say to yourself 'this is a business arrangement to save rent' and disengage.

[spiderowl]

I see that this is a difficult situation for you, Gingercatkeeper.  If you wanted a friend to share your troubles (and good life) with, then she might turn out to be great, but it is clear you want nothing to do with her.  You are seeing this as a practical rooming arrangement; she is seeing you as a potential friend.

While it is not fun to listen to someone being negative, most of us do that for our friends.  You don't want to be friends with this woman and see her trying to share her problems with you as a nuisance. 

I think you need to say to this woman in some way that it is just a rooming arrangement for you and you are not really into socialising, otherwise she is going to think there is potential for a friendship.  I am not saying here that she might not be the kind of friend you would like, just that she is viewing this whole rooming thing entirely different to you.

I have shared houses with people and we have talked, shared drinks and talked about our hopes, problems, backgrounds, most things - the kind of things friends talk about.  I see nothing wrong with this.  If a friend is overly negative, then I'd be concerned about her and wanting to help.  That's me though and I am generally quite empathic.

I think you are right in that this woman has problems.  They could be mental health issues, possibly some kind of dependency - though you don't mention any evidence for that - possibly just loneliness.

As you don't want to be involved, just distance yourself and let her know that you are not really up for socialising.  Once she realises you are not looking for a friend, as she is, she will probably look elsewhere.  People have all sorts of different expectations when sharing a house.  She just happens to have a different one to you.

 

[Ginger_cat_keeper]

16 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I see that this is a difficult situation for you, Gingercatkeeper.  If you wanted a friend to share your troubles (and good life) with, then she might turn out to be great, but it is clear you want nothing to do with her.  You are seeing this as a practical rooming arrangement; she is seeing you as a potential friend.

While it is not fun to listen to someone being negative, most of us do that for our friends.  You don't want to be friends with this woman and see her trying to share her problems with you as a nuisance. 

I think you need to say to this woman in some way that it is just a rooming arrangement for you and you are not really into socialising, otherwise she is going to think there is potential for a friendship.  I am not saying here that she might not be the kind of friend you would like, just that she is viewing this whole rooming thing entirely different to you.

I have shared houses with people and we have talked, shared drinks and talked about our hopes, problems, backgrounds, most things - the kind of things friends talk about.  I see nothing wrong with this.  If a friend is overly negative, then I'd be concerned about her and wanting to help.  That's me though and I am generally quite empathic.

I think you are right in that this woman has problems.  They could be mental health issues, possibly some kind of dependency - though you don't mention any evidence for that - possibly just loneliness.

As you don't want to be involved, just distance yourself and let her know that you are not really up for socialising.  Once she realises you are not looking for a friend, as she is, she will probably look elsewhere.  People have all sorts of different expectations when sharing a house.  She just happens to have a different one to you.

 

thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I see where you're coming from and agree with you for the most part - my feelings about my housemate have absolutely soured not because I didn't move in intending to be friendly (although not close to the extent of other friends as I do see housemates as more of a formal arrangement), but because her behaviour has put me off and showed no signs of improvement. I was led to believe that she had lots of good intentions for sharing the house than she's actually proven with action, and she's turned out to be incredibly overbearing and negative right from the start.

I generally always go into a new relationship with a positive attitude (i.e. hoping for the best) unless the other person shows me otherwise and in this case, that's how it's turned out. She's really done nothing to show that I can trust or rely on her, the opposite in fact, putting me into several awkward positions and made me feel stressed and disrespected, yet somehow expects to treat me as though I'm a friend. I suppose what I'm saying is that she hasn't earned my friendship or proven to me that it's worth pursuing, so it feels like she's just using me to emotionally dump on and hasn't taken any time to respect me or my needs.

I've learned from past experiences that trying to change people like this is pointless and will only burn me out mentally so instead I have to keep my distance. Like you say she clearly has issues and is lonely which I understand and am sympathetic to but that doesn't obligate me to be her emotional punching bag.  She might change but at this point she's already blown it with me sadly.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Ginger_cat_keeper

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, Ginger_cat_keeper said:

 She might change but at this point she's already blown it with me sadly.

You're not in a relationship. There's nothing to "blow". You're in a house share situation.

You need to step back and stop thinking of this as a relationship or friendship when the truth is you simply both have keys to the same house.

You're investing way too much time on this.

[Taramere]

Your housemate really isn't a place where she should be trying to house-share with anybody....since inevitably it results in her trying to use the housemate as unpaid counsellor.  Unfortunately economic issues sometimes mean people have little choice but to houseshare.  I'm skeptical about the notion of it ever working as an emotionally detached business arrangement on anything other than a very short term basis.  Most people, sooner or later, have crap going on in their lives...and having to bottle it up at home (because "home" is a business arrangement with uninvolved strangers), is not an ideal scenario.

In this situation, there's evidently more than just a bit of crap going on in her life.  You mention possible substance abuse problems, depression etc.  Let's be blunt. This is a situation where you could come "home" one day and find that your housemate has taken her own life.  I think you need to move out asap, because trying to maintain a "ships that pass in the night" arrangement with somebody who is in the place your housemate seems to be in is not a feasible option.  It's not happening.  If you live there, you're going to be sucked in one way or another no matter what you do.

One of the reasons mental health problems are stigmatised is because this situation is precisely what they often look like in practice.  People who don't have any actual relationship with the person, but who have proximity to them - whether through living arrangements or through work-  find themselves drawn in.  Then they get understandably scared/uncomfortable/resentful about being drawn in and naturally want to extricate themselves with the minimum of drama and confrontation.  You could do that by finding another place to live, and making an excuse about why you have to leave.  I think I'd want  to also take some steps to try to get the person to seek help - even if just by talking to one of their close friends or relatives.  Hints, subtle or not, about the person needing professional help aren't necessarily the way to go.  Such hints can often be part and parcel of creating stigma (particularly since "get some professional help" is all too often used as an insult rather than as well intended advice).  If you're going to address it at all, compassionate, direct and straightforward is probably the best tone.

I don't think anybody would judge you for trying to just extricate yourself from this living situation as swiftly and non confrontationally as possible.   But if there is an option of talking to somebody who's close to her, who can check up on her after you leave, I would pursue it.  

Edited July 28, 2021 by Taramere

[jspice]

What is the situation that you can’t ask her to leave?

Give her the required notice and put her out. I rented out a room in my place a few years ago and I was NOT looking for friends or someone to take care of. I just had an extra room.

It’s draining to work all day and then come home to someone who’s sucking the very life out of you. 
 

It wasn’t easy to ask them to leave. I practiced with my psychologist in one of our sessions 🤣

Tell her you're not able to give her what she needs from you and you think you need to live by yourself for now. 
Often we don’t want others to think we’re rude or want them to feel bad by being honest with them but if someone doesn’t respect your boundaries and subjects you to their verbal diarrhoea every day, they’re being rude and not respecting your time. 

 

[spiderowl]

12 hours ago, Ginger_cat_keeper said:

thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I see where you're coming from and agree with you for the most part - my feelings about my housemate have absolutely soured not because I didn't move in intending to be friendly (although not close to the extent of other friends as I do see housemates as more of a formal arrangement), but because her behaviour has put me off and showed no signs of improvement. I was led to believe that she had lots of good intentions for sharing the house than she's actually proven with action, and she's turned out to be incredibly overbearing and negative right from the start.

I generally always go into a new relationship with a positive attitude (i.e. hoping for the best) unless the other person shows me otherwise and in this case, that's how it's turned out. She's really done nothing to show that I can trust or rely on her, the opposite in fact, putting me into several awkward positions and made me feel stressed and disrespected, yet somehow expects to treat me as though I'm a friend. I suppose what I'm saying is that she hasn't earned my friendship or proven to me that it's worth pursuing, so it feels like she's just using me to emotionally dump on and hasn't taken any time to respect me or my needs.

I've learned from past experiences that trying to change people like this is pointless and will only burn me out mentally so instead I have to keep my distance. Like you say she clearly has issues and is lonely which I understand and am sympathetic to but that doesn't obligate me to be her emotional punching bag.  She might change but at this point she's already blown it with me sadly.

I agree with you, OP.  It sounds like she's just too much.  You have very quickly reached the stage of wanting to avoid her.  Maybe a gentle reminder that this is a rooming arrangement and that you are not very sociable (a white lie) will cause her to back off and leave you alone.  I doubt it somehow, but good luck!  If things are getting really difficult, I'd start looking for somewhere else, if at all possible.  Tensions don't usually just disappear even if people 'have words'.

[Wiseman2]

I would steer clear and start looking for another place. You can't fix or change her.

There's also nothing you can do legally with your landlord because being a whiney drama queen is not something the landlord can evict her for.

Try to get out of the house more and make friends. See if you can get a side hustle and not be home all the time.

Step out of the "roomies" mindset. Don't hang out in common areas drinking with her. Keep it strictly business.

[Ginger_cat_keeper]

12 hours ago, jspice said:

What is the situation that you can’t ask her to leave?

Give her the required notice and put her out. I rented out a room in my place a few years ago and I was NOT looking for friends or someone to take care of. I just had an extra room.

It’s draining to work all day and then come home to someone who’s sucking the very life out of you. 
 

It wasn’t easy to ask them to leave. I practiced with my psychologist in one of our sessions 🤣

Tell her you're not able to give her what she needs from you and you think you need to live by yourself for now. 
Often we don’t want others to think we’re rude or want them to feel bad by being honest with them but if someone doesn’t respect your boundaries and subjects you to their verbal diarrhoea every day, they’re being rude and not respecting your time. 

 

So unfortunately we're on a joint contract - a mistake I'll never make again now. But we're both renting the house as a whole from the landlord and I don't have the right to force her to leave. She either needs to go willingly or I do, and we'd each have to find someone else to take over our remaining time on the contract, which quite honestly is looking like a more attactive option as time goes on.

I've been avoiding the thought of having to pack up and move again as moving into a new city in the first place was a big event for me, and I've invested a lot into it both mentally and financially. Plus it's difficult to find rentals that accepts pets, and my cat didn't react well to the move either - he's only just settled in so I'd feel awful having to put him through that again.

Part of me really wants to just give in and accept that I'm going to have to put up with her for the next several months but by then I'm going to hate this house, and there's no guarantee she won't renew again at the end, so I'd likely choose to leave anyway. I'm just kind of torn on what to do really. I think I need to have an honest conversation with the landlord and say I'm considering breaking the lease early and see what they say.

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, Ginger_cat_keeper said:

I'm considering breaking the lease early and see what they say.

On what basis? They can legally hold you accountable for the full term of the lease. And definitely keep your security deposit.

Threatening the landlord with this is foolish because the problem is not the house or the landlord, it's your lack of boundaries.

[Ginger_cat_keeper]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

On what basis? They can legally hold you accountable for the full term of the lease. And definitely keep your security deposit.

Threatening the landlord with this is foolish because the problem is not the house or the landlord, it's your lack of boundaries.

There's no threat, I'm just talking about an honest conversation to see if we can make an agreement that it's not working out for me. I don't really see any other options here. I've tried talking to my housemate multiple times about other issues (cleanliness, keeping the house secure, helping with housework), and majority of things just haven't improved, and the mental load from her negativity is just the icing on the cake. I've tried ignoring everything and pushing through, that's clearly not working. I don't know what other boundaries I can put up that I haven't already. I can't physically force her to do things around the house or force her to leave. All I'm doing is firefighting against her and her mess, tidying the house as best I can to keep our deposit, and keeping myself at a distance constantly. It's miserable no matter how you parse it.

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, Ginger_cat_keeper said:

 It's miserable no matter how you parse it.

A landlord is not a therapist or referee or mom. It's a business situation.

If you want to break the contract make sure you start looking for another place.

Document if she is in violation of the lease terms, such as trashing the place etc.

[jspice]

1 hour ago, Ginger_cat_keeper said:

So unfortunately we're on a joint contract - a mistake I'll never make again now. But we're both renting the house as a whole from the landlord and I don't have the right to force her to leave. She either needs to go willingly or I do, and we'd each have to find someone else to take over our remaining time on the contract, which quite honestly is looking like a more attactive option as time goes on.

I've been avoiding the thought of having to pack up and move again as moving into a new city in the first place was a big event for me, and I've invested a lot into it both mentally and financially. Plus it's difficult to find rentals that accepts pets, and my cat didn't react well to the move either - he's only just settled in so I'd feel awful having to put him through that again.

Part of me really wants to just give in and accept that I'm going to have to put up with her for the next several months but by then I'm going to hate this house, and there's no guarantee she won't renew again at the end, so I'd likely choose to leave anyway. I'm just kind of torn on what to do really. I think I need to have an honest conversation with the landlord and say I'm considering breaking the lease early and see what they say.

Oh that’s unfortunate. 
At least you’ve learned something valuable for the future. Sign the lease only in your name or sublet from someone.

It can’t hurt to see if your landlord would be open to letting you go. If they’re reasonable they might not put up a fuss if you can just find another tenant. It’s stressful moving but your home should be your sanctuary, not some place you dread going back to. 

[SoulCat]

I'd suggest having a thourough read of your joint tenancy agreement. There may well be clauses in it that your roommate is not adhering to, or blatantly breaking.

If you can back up any such disregards of the agreement with evidence (text messages, photos etc) you can take those to your landlord to strengthen your case.

I would assume that your landlord would be especially concerned with your roommate's inability to keep the property safe and secure as this could negatively impact their landlord insurance policies and premiums.

ETA: It may also be worth contacting the Citizens Advice Bureau for help and information. Their website has a whole section on rented housing.

Edited July 29, 2021 by SoulCat

[glows]

I would document the times she leaves the place unlocked or isn't mindful about the common areas. You seem very dependent on her, ironically, even though you are avoiding that dependency from her. Try removing yourself more often from her issues. You're not responsible for her problems so try not to doctor or take them on. Her moods aren't your concern either. I know it's very hard to live with someone who needs constant looking after or attention. Be kind to yourself and mentally/emotionally release yourself from that. 

Treat the house as an object and a roof over your head, keep track of things gone amiss or not tended to as I said only in the common areas. If you feel that you can make a move and find housing for yourself elsewhere (living alone), I'd look into this. Peace of mind before everything else.

[Noproblem]

find another roommate! 

oh read you can't..

Ok, so sublease your apartment then!

 

Regardless, you have to leave! This is only going to get worse!

 

But anyway, from now on, refuse to drink with her, say you wanna be semi-sober for health reasons ..

If she invited you to talk, say you have a headache or you have a zoom meeting with a friend, or you have to watch a game/ tv show, etc!

Edited August 1, 2021 by Noproblem

[Wiseman2]

Yes. Very carefully reread your lease agreement. Particularly if you believe she is violating any of it.

Also pay attention to the terms of breaking the lease/moving out,etc.

Also be mindful if you are jointly responsible for damages that may result in losing your security deposit.

Stick to the logistics. Stop socializing and drinking together.

[Taramere]

On 7/29/2021 at 10:26 AM, Ginger_cat_keeper said:

There's no threat, I'm just talking about an honest conversation to see if we can make an agreement that it's not working out for me. I don't really see any other options here. I've tried talking to my housemate multiple times about other issues (cleanliness, keeping the house secure, helping with housework), and majority of things just haven't improved, and the mental load from her negativity is just the icing on the cake. I've tried ignoring everything and pushing through, that's clearly not working. I don't know what other boundaries I can put up that I haven't already. I can't physically force her to do things around the house or force her to leave. All I'm doing is firefighting against her and her mess, tidying the house as best I can to keep our deposit, and keeping myself at a distance constantly. It's miserable no matter how you parse it.

As @Wiseman2 says, you would likely be held jointly and severally liable for any damage to the property - and your only recourse in that situation would be to raise a separate action against your housemate if she does end up damaging the property.  In such a scenario, it would be very helpful for you to be able to show that you had a discussion with the landlord expressing concerns about your housemate.

I wouldn't rush into trying to break out of the agreement if you are happy with the property itself.  The landlord might be more supportive than you expect, if you explain the difficulties with your housemate.  A tenant who always pays on time and takes good care of the property is of great value to a landlord.  A friend of mine recently agreed to reduce the rent on a property by quite a considerable sum, just to keep a good tenant...so the landlord's perspective may well be that they want to keep you on if at all possible and get rid of the housemate.  However there is that risk that the landlord's response will be to conduct an inspection of the property asap, possibly "find" damage that you can't prove wasn't there when you move in and hold the pair of you liable.